Plight of elderly Indian immigrants

[sarang]

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In some cases there is a (un)healthy fight between the boys and girls parents on who should go. Of course the other side, especially when the wards live in countries like newzeland, australia, canada, europe. Even the internet and connectivity has not alleviated the long hours of boredom and inactivity. What some parents resent most that they are taken for granted, and plans are made when boys'/ girls' parents will visit for how long. I am sure solutions will be found in due course.

Part of the blame for this situation also lies with elderly parents who readily oblige without clarifying or raising the downsides.

 

[vgane]

Recently an elderly neighbour went to meet his daughter in New Jersey...As both his daughter & son in law would be out for work I asked him how did he spend his time..

Surprised to know that he is picked up daily at 6AM to a nearby elderly care center, where he is made to do some excercises & spends time chatting with the elders, read news paper, watch TV , have his grub and return in the afternoon..I asked him the charge for this facility...He said to my astonishment that it was free...So I wondered that it should be paradise for the elderly...

I do understand healthcare costs are huge...There is a close friend of mine who is a green card holder and resides in SFO...He had brought his mother to States almost 20 years back...She gets an old age pension which is significant...She was cheerful, happy, visits India atleast once in 2 years..I understood the benefit of getting the green card especially for the elderly

 

[prasad1]

Recently an elderly neighbour went to meet his daughter in New Jersey...As both his daughter & son in law would be out for work I asked him how did he spend his time..

Surprised to know that he is picked up daily at 6AM to a nearby elderly care center, where he is made to do some excercises & spends time chatting with the elders, read news paper, watch TV , have his grub and return in the afternoon..I asked him the charge for this facility...He said to my astonishment that it was free...So I wondered that it should be paradise for the elderly...

I do understand healthcare costs are huge...There is a close friend of mine who is a green card holder and resides in SFO...He had brought his mother to States almost 20 years back...She gets an old age pension which is significant...She was cheerful, happy, visits India atleast once in 2 years..I understood the benefit of getting the green card especially for the elderly

Yes even in my town there is a Jewish Community Center. They do not discriminate and any senior can join. They do come even 30 miles to pick up and return the senior person. They have beautiful facility, you could also volunteer there. On Tuesday they also have a shuttle service to the the shopping mall, there is a movie day etc. My father in law enjoyed their service. But for that you have to be social, and enjoy company. Please read my post#7 above.

Getting social security benefits, and Medicaid has changed in last 10 years. Now you must have paid into the service to receive any benefits. (the US economy is not what it used to be). I think now you have to be a citizen, Green card is pre-citizen state.

 

[guruvayurappan]

I commend your observations. Our children invite us primarily to enable us to enjoy the company of the grandchildren.

A slight dissonance in your post, when you say: “….they make full insurance cover for our stay and plan the itinerary in accordance with our consent . even if they never mind out the expenditure , it is our mind setup to calculate everything in conversion of £ or $ the problem will be during transition from one generation to second generation.”

It would seem to suggest that such a mind setup is somehow faulty or offensive.

While the first part of the quote is the ‘leit motif’, it is a bit off the mark to say “our mind setup to calculate everything in ….$” .

In fact this mind setup is not far from that of any average middle-class senior American citizen who prefers not to subject his children with the financial burden of senior care. Paying for insurance coverage for even healthy seniors (without pre-existing medical conditions) these days is a staggeringly huge expense ( around $400 to $500 per person) , even if they have a green card. They probably have to complete 5 years of resident status, after which government-sponsored Medicare may kick in if they also satisfy age criterion. The sponsored seniors have to be extraordinarily lucky to find some gainful employment, in which case the employer may pay for insurance coverage.These days, parents of NRIs may also have to worry about the stability of their wards’ job situation abroad, so the best recommendation would probably be “don’t burn your bridges”.

dear naina_marbus !
as you said that
this mind setup is not far from that of any average middle-class senior American citizen who prefers not to subject his children with the financial burden of senior care.
is absolutely true and our wards are also requesting us to wipe of that mind setup .we are also trying to over come that to some extend.my wards are now UK citizen & we are not eligible for any employment (my wards are not for that scenerio is different) .as said by the members ,we are having property(acquired by wards) at home in India.you live the present peacefully & leave the rest to almighty. natapathu ellam,natakavendiyathu ellam nantrakkave natakkum
guruvayurappan

 

[prasad1]

There is lot of good advice for both (the children and Seniors in this thread). I think everyone thinking of migrating or visiting should read and make up their own mind.
There are positives and negatives to the move away from home. To an extent the distance of the move is immaterial, but distance and language adds more complications.

 

[Naina_Marbus]

........I understood the benefit of getting the green card especially for the elderly

These days, I understand that the rules have changed, that a senior who just got a green card has to wait 5 years before becoming eligible for healthcare.

 

[sudeshwer]

No.31 I am afraid your understanding is wrong. I got GC in Jan 2009; thereafter immeiately I applied and obtained Social Security with which I applied and obtained Healthcare(medi-cal in California),say,within 3/4 months. In fact, one of my friends got GC and applied and obtained medi-cal this year itself. Better you please check. If you are senior citizen ( 65 and above), things go faster. True some facilities are reduced but obtaining healthcare does not that much time.

 

[sudeshwer]

after all it depends upon how you conduct yourself. as I mentioned somewhere in this forum, I conduct Laughter Club from Monday to Friday for one hour, maintain list of members(as on it is 300), conduct Potluck every 2/3 months, play housie in the city I live. Theses activities not only keep me busy but also other Indian senior citizens. Also, there is Senior Citizen Centre where a group of our people go there every second and fourth tuesdays every month and enjoy lunch for $1.00.

 

[sudeshwer]

there is quite a bit of thrashing of young sons and daughters. However, I wish to mention here one incident which has a different story.
Parents of a colleague of my son came to USA to stay with their son who has a 6 yr old son. Both son and DIL were working; so, after school, the grandson stayed in the home with his grandparents. One day, something happened resulting scolding and slapping the grandson by the grandpa. Little later cops came, questioned the grandpa and took him to the Police Station. On seeing her husband being taken by the cops, the grandma questioned her grandson who kept quiet. worried the grandma phoned her son who along with his wife came running to home. when the couple questioned their son closely, the young one told them that as the school taught as to how handle such situation by phoning 911, he did. The couple went to the Police Station and somehow, they got the old man released and brought him to the house. The next day, the young man went to his office and told his boss he do not want to stay in a place where his own parents are comfortable and resigned. The boss explained and cajoled him but he didnt carry. Ultimately it was agreed that he will work in their Indian Office. It took almost threemonths to clear all formalities and one day they all landed in India. Once they are out of airport, the father gave quite a bit of thrash and asked his son to call police now. So, there are good persons who wish to take care of their parents.

 

[Somayaji.S]

Plight of elderly Indian Immigrants

I am 75 +

My wife 70-

we are here in New York from 2005.--We do Not find any discomfort.Of course we have Metro ( train) and very good Bus service--well connected to the nook and corner.Our two Children and their families take care of us well.Week-ends they take us to Hindu temple,Beach in Summer and other out-stations.To be with children and grand children is "FUN," as Americans say.I have developed friends among Jews,African-American,Irish gentlemen--my wife has developed friends among Russian--Italian ladies.It is O.K---.Senior citizens get FREE Meicare including Medicines.In Chennai when we Two were living there was a lot of problems for Water--Electricity--Gas cylinder etc.Even though I had a Maruthi car petrol was Rs 40/=per litre.--i do not know what is the price now .--Somayaji.

 

[prasad1]

I am 75 +

My wife 70-

we are here in New York from 2005.--We do Not find any discomfort.Of course we have Metro ( train) and very good Bus service--well connected to the nook and corner.Our two Children and their families take care of us well.Week-ends they take us to Hindu temple,Beach in Summer and other out-stations.To be with children and grand children is "FUN," as Americans say.I have developed friends among Jews,African-American,Irish gentlemen--my wife has developed friends among Russian--Italian ladies.It is O.K---.Senior citizens get FREE Meicare including Medicines.In Chennai when we Two were living there was a lot of problems for Water--Electricity--Gas cylinder etc.Even though I had a Maruthi car petrol was Rs 40/=per litre.--i do not know what is the price now .--Somayaji.

Thank you for providing first hand experience, and clarifying some misconceptions.

 

[Somayaji.S]

No.31 I am afraid your understanding is wrong. I got GC in Jan 2009; thereafter immeiately I applied and obtained Social Security with which I applied and obtained Healthcare(medi-cal in California),say,within 3/4 months. In fact, one of my friends got GC and applied and obtained medi-cal this year itself. Better you please check. If you are senior citizen ( 65 and above), things go faster. True some facilities are reduced but obtaining healthcare does not that much time.

No 31.Yes Sudheshwar is correct.---After getting GC--within a short period SSN is given and for those 65+ Benifit card--Medicare is given within 3-4 months. It is easy to get the work done in Government Offices..Senior Citizens living without Medicare is very difficult. It will cost a "fortune" to the children.

 

[prasad1]

Soumyaji,
Is it not dependent on the state? The practice is not uniform across states.

 

[sudeshwer]

yes Mr Prasad, pratice is not uniform across States. I understand only California where i live has extensive benefits to the seniors; here also one by one is deleted due to budget deficit. Stockton city has filed bankruptcy. now, SC validated Obamacare; let us see what happens

 

[Somayaji.S]

Prasad 1;-"Soumyaji,
Is it not dependent on the state? The practice is not uniform across states.""

My Last name is SOMYAJINN .My Great Grand father=> Subramanya Somayaji<= performed "Soma Yaaam" as per the advice of sri.-La-Sri.Nrsimha Bharathi of Sringeri Saradha Peetam--"YAAJINN" is one who performs a Yaagam.--So ""IYER" became =>SOMAYAJI.

I know only about the practice in New York City--I do not know about other States.

 

[mahakavi]

No.31 I am afraid your understanding is wrong. I got GC in Jan 2009; thereafter immeiately I applied and obtained Social Security with which I applied and obtained Healthcare(medi-cal in California),say,within 3/4 months. In fact, one of my friends got GC and applied and obtained medi-cal this year itself. Better you please check. If you are senior citizen ( 65 and above), things go faster. True some facilities are reduced but obtaining healthcare does not that much time.

I don't know the rules in California. But I want to clarify one thing. Even if you are over 65 (with GC) you cannot get regular Social Security. You must have worked in the US for 10 years to qualify for that. But you probably qualified under what is known as SSI (Supplementary Security Income) otherwise known as welfare to the tune of $500/month. As an additional benefit I think you are also qualified to receive Medicaid which entitles you to receive medical care for free. I do not have personal experience of having a GC holder and applying for him/her for the SSI. So my facts may not be accurate. I am giving the info as generally available.

I feel it is a little cheating in a way that the elderly parents of US workers of foreign origin (citizens or not) to get monetary benefits from the US government without any contribution on their part. They are not US citizens who worked and paid taxes in the US. They are just exploiting the loophole in the US human services system. Don't get me wrong. I feel the taxpayer is loaded with this burden.

 

[prasad1]

I don't know the rules in California. But I want to clarify one thing. Even if you are over 65 (with GC) you cannot get regular Social Security. You must have worked in the US for 10 years to qualify for that. But you probably qualified under what is known as SSI (Supplementary Security Income) otherwise known as welfare to the tune of $500/month. As an additional benefit I think you are also qualified to receive Medicaid which entitles you to receive medical care for free. I do not have personal experience of having a GC holder and applying for him/her for the SSI. So my facts may not be accurate. I am giving the info as generally available.

I feel it is a little cheating in a way that the elderly parents of US workers of foreign origin (citizens or not) to get monetary benefits from the US government without any contribution on their part. They are not US citizens who worked and paid taxes in the US. They are just exploiting the loophole in the US human services system. Don't get me wrong. I feel the taxpayer is loaded with this burden.

Sir, you are talking about moral cheating, it is perfectly legal. We have gone over the speed limit, or we have given some excuse in our life time those are cheating too. I would not hold it against any one who takes advantage of a legal loophole.
Similarly a senior if gets admitted to hospital should declare themselves to be independent, the children must not guarantee for the parent (senior). That way if the bill is enormous, the hospital can not go after the children. The hospital will try to collect their bill at all cost. The senior can pay, and come to an arrangement with the hospital. You have to be aware of the system.

 

[mahakavi]

Sir, you are talking about moral cheating, it is perfectly legal. We have gone over the speed limit, or we have given some excuse in our life time those are cheating too. I would not hold it against any one who takes advantage of a legal loophole.
Similarly a senior if gets admitted to hospital should declare themselves to be independent, the children must not guarantee for the parent (senior). That way if the bill is enormous, the hospital can not go after the children. The hospital will try to collect their bill at all cost. The senior can pay, and come to an arrangement with the hospital. You have to be aware of the system.

Well, that is what I meant. There are lots of loopholes in the US system which people take advantage of whether they are at the bottom of the economic pyramid (those who collect SSI, medicaid, food stamps and whole bunch of other handouts) as well as those at the top (who stash their wealth in foreign shores, and take advantage of tax shelters and many others). What I take exception to is the fact that the sons/daughters of elderly Indian immigrants make a declaration that they are not responsible for their parents (which is legal in the US) and thus make their parents wards of the state. Moral cheating, you say! Now once you are a "destitute" the government takes care of you. Nobody seems to realize where all this largess comes from. It is all added to the deficit that is running at the speed of light. It was all done with good intention in the earlier times but now it has become unmanageable. It is one thing if you were born here or got naturalized as a kid and thus got to work and pay taxes even if they are a pittance. It is another to import one's parents who are seniors and take advantage of the US welfare system. This is only a fringe benefit. The main benefit the adult children of the seniors get is free babysitting (which is very expensive) for their children. I am only pointing out the morality issue here.

 

[mahakavi]

The other issue is with respect to hospital care. As you know very well very few hospitals in the US will refuse to take in a patient arriving in an ambulance if the patients have no insurance. They treat them alright. The son/daughter will take the elderly parent home upon discharge without any taint on their conscience. The hospital gets nothing even if they bill the patients. The costs are passed on to the general population in higher charges. Obamacare is supposed to take care of this. We will have to wait and see.

 

[sudeshwer]

Mr Mahakavi and Mr Prasad, both are correct on their perception. In my case, I am 77 complete and my wife,almost 70. Our both children- daughter in Melbourne, Australia and son, in USA. both children refused our stay alone in India. So, our son who is US citizen brought us to USA(California) and obtained for us GC, SS, Medi-cal, Driving License etc. how can one say we are cheating the system!! even these facilities are not provided we would have come and will stay with our son. Almost all parents have obtained GC etc only like this without exception

 

[prasad1]

Mr. Mahakavi,
Please do not add more guilt ti the elderly. You take the system as it comes. Even the right wing republicans who promise to repeal obamacare, get there children insured under their plan using Obamacare. So using the system is not misusing the system, it is not a crime against society, if no law is broken.

 

[mahakavi]

Mr. Mahakavi,
Please do not add more guilt ti the elderly. You take the system as it comes. Even the right wing republicans who promise to repeal obamacare, get there children insured under their plan using Obamacare. So using the system is not misusing the system, it is not a crime against society, if no law is broken.

Agreed. My philosophy is this: Caesar's wife must be above suspicion and beyond reproach. Our Hindu religion teaches to practice virtue first, right? Not breaking the law is required to avoid going to jail but it is not a virtue. It is just amoral behavior; strictly speaking cannot be equated with morality per se. But your advice is taken in the right spirit. Adding to the guilt was not my intent. Making them recognize it was.

 

[prasad1]

Agreed. My philosophy is this: Caesar's wife must be above suspicion and beyond reproach. Our Hindu religion teaches to practice virtue first, right? Not breaking the law is required to avoid going to jail but it is not a virtue. It is just amoral behavior; strictly speaking cannot be equated with morality per se. But your advice is taken in the right spirit. Adding to the guilt was not my intent. Making them recognize it was.

Agreed, and thank you.
I do have a question on morality?
According to Wikipedia:

A moral code is a system of morality (according to a particular philosophy, religion, culture, etc.) and a moral is any one practice or teaching within a moral code. The adjective moral is synonymous with "good" or "right." Immorality is the active opposition to morality (i.e. good or right), while amorality is variously defined as an unawareness of, indifference toward, or disbelief in any set of moral standards or principles.

By definition it is not a written rule. If it is unwritten it can be different depending on time and place.
In some of the abrahamic religion it is written down (or etched in stone), we know what happens to them. Even the written code gets different explanation (say the judges interpretation). So I would not judge others by my moral code. My morals are mine and mine alone. They might overlap yours on majority of cases but still they are unique to me.

No one is guilty till proven beyond doubt, then also there is appeals etc.

 

[Somayaji.S]

I don't know the rules in California. But I want to clarify one thing. Even if you are over 65 (with GC) you cannot get regular Social Security. You must have worked in the US for 10 years to qualify for that. But you probably qualified under what is known as SSI (Supplementary Security Income) otherwise known as welfare to the tune of $500/month. As an additional benefit I think you are also qualified to receive Medicaid which entitles you to receive medical care for free. I do not have personal experience of having a GC holder and applying for him/her for the SSI. So my facts may not be accurate. I am giving the info as generally available.

I feel it is a little cheating in a way that the elderly parents of US workers of foreign origin (citizens or not) to get monetary benefits from the US government without any contribution on their part. They are not US citizens who worked and paid taxes in the US. They are just exploiting the loophole in the US human services system. Don't get me wrong. I feel the taxpayer is loaded with this burden.

I do NOT know what is "Regular SS.---But we both (Husband and wife ) have Social Security.SSN is very important in getting any kind of Benefit.

All GCs who have SSN, do NOT get $500/= per month-No Cash nor "Food Relief" --For "Citizens" (Seniors) this is NOT the rule. My daughter -in -law is a Certified Public Accountant (CPA)--she says "Supporters'" income limit,their commitment and Time proximity to the "Eligibility" to Citizenship are all the criteria for GCs. Medicare alone is "Mostly Free,subject to Part-B provisions", =>that too through a Medical Insurance only.The Insurance Company "Item by Item has to clear". For Instance "Life Saving" measures can Not be refused-there also One has to go through the "Approved facilities only,even for "Prescription medicines".--PCP is the final Authority to decide and he/she has to go through a lot of regulations & rules..-but a "Denture" or "Glass for the eyes"--one has to wait for prior approval of the Insurance Company even for a few months for clearence.

NO need to have worked here and stayed here for 10 years etc.

No "cheating" is involved in this case--From Our Childrens' Salary automatically a "Fairly Reasonable Amount" is deducted at "Source" for "Social Security". When Two couples "Contribute" it is a huge amount.They don' get even a penny as benefit from SS,as long as they earn,(and sentimentally they do not want anything from SS also)and they do not want to give up their earning as long as they can.They say "if some un-known faces are getting the benefits,why NOT our parents get a small portion as Medicare,when it is legitimate."

Secondly preventive medicine for the vulnerable group (what Prof.Alex Comfort says "Deterioration across the Board in GERONS) is of paramount importance in public Health Care of Younger population,which is Government's responsibility .

In our Country the Government bears the burden of Public Health from Tax-payer's money.(it was what Dr.K.S.Sanjivi--with whom I worked for 14 years-- was telling all his life----In INDIA Federal Government alone charges Tax on Income--here Federal--State-City all charges Tax on Income apart from "Social Security" deductions =>from which the Meical Aid for Senior Citizens are given.In one sense Healthy Earning Children indirectly pay Medical expenses for their parents."Charity Starts at Home"..

 

[guruvayurappan]

dear somayaji !
very soft &strong answer for strong comment made in sweet language
Healthy Earning Children pay for their parents."Charity Starts at Home".. is very nice quote.
guruvayurappan