Alright. Let us then accept morality as something flexible (--to each his own). The fudge factor depends on the individual. Virtue and vice were as far apart as black and white once upon a time. But it is not so anymore. Lots of shades of gray have bridged the two and one can stay at either end or the middle of the spectrum and still claim to be part of the whole stretch.
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Alright. Let us then accept morality as something flexible (--to each his own). The fudge factor depends on the individual. Virtue and vice were as far apart as black and white once upon a time. But it is not so anymore. Lots of shades of gray have bridged the two and one can stay at either end or the middle of the spectrum and still claim to be part of the whole stretch.
prasad1
Active member
Yes precisely my point. I am ok, and so are you.
OP
OP
sudeshwer
Guest
Hats off Somayaji. thank you very much. both Mr Mahakavi and Mr Prasad must be senior citizens. they must have come to US much earlier and worked and contributed for medical. now, I want to know how much their parents must have sacrificed for educating them and sending them to US. Now, take my case. yes I did a great job in educating both my children well and saw to it that they go to green pasture as Mahakavi and Prasad have done. As Somayaji pointed out my son has contributed enough to cover our health expenses. we also have come from a very decent family and fortunately never begged. My great grand father built a temple in my town in TNand my mother's great grand father's name is Agni Mahalinga Siva- an agni hotri. sorry if I have wounded anybody but I beseech TB forum members to coin the words in such a way so that nobody is hurt
Mr. Sudeshwer:
One does not need to be a senior citizen to know the rules regarding social security, medicare, medicaid etc., in the US. Some of us are familiar with doings of the government. If one is an informed citizen one gets to participate in the affairs of the government.
Regarding your statement "As Somayaji pointed out my son has contributed enough to cover our health expenses." I have to take exception to it. As individuals, everybody who works in the US pays social security (it is not a tax but compulsory insurance---most people are not aware of it---it is called FICA which means Federal Insurance Contribution Act) deducted from their paychecks periodically. There is a maximum amount of income which is adjusted every year on which a percentage for social security is deducted. All of that goes into a fund which is used to pay social security benefits (monthly payments) to those who are eligible and currently retired. Nobody pays into the social security system for their parents' health care expenses however much they pay. Even the income tax they pay to the federal and state governments do not cover their parents' healthcare nor social security benefits such as SSI I talked about earlier. The social security payments workers make do NOT go into their own account either. They cannot withdraw that money if they want. They cannot refuse to pay those either. It is the law. Their benefits, once they retire, will be determined by their service period, their payments and the rules that govern the benefit payments. Their benefits will be paid out of the payments made by future workers. The reason that the social security system is in danger of running out of funds is because there is more outflow to retirees, and disabled persons (who receive benefits from the same funds) than the inflow from current workers. Medicare and Medicaid are separate from social security. That fund is also running in deficit.
So just to make it clear, unless I have worked and paid into the social security system in the US (for retiree benefits and hospital care after retirement) I cannot claim such benefits based on my children who might have contributed enormous amounts into the system. By some chance if I become destitute in my old age, I cannot claim any benefit through my children's payments. At that time the available option is SSI, medicaid, food stamps and such safety net provisions that the government has. Such provisions are the ones I mentioned earlier which are availed by those who have GC but have not worked and paid into social security system.
These remarks are just facts and not intended to hurt anybody in particular. If some individual is getting such payments without having been a past participant in the system that is because the system has loopholes. The safety net was established by the government through legislation enacted mainly by democratic administrations in the past to look after the lower rung members of the society.
As for your individual case, I have no intention of criticizing your situation. What I said is fact. No insult is intended. As for the morality issue, as Mr. Prasad indicated, it is a gray area and I will not dwell on it anymore.
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Mr. Somayaji:
Let me answer some specific points in your comments. See all the blue fonts.
As I said in my reply to Mr. Sudeshwer, it is NOT true that healthy earning children indirectly pay medical expenses for their parents. Nobody in this country pays for the health care expenses of their parents. (Some children may pay the so-called co-payments required of their parents when they incur them. They are not obligated to do so). Either the retired parents, when they worked, paid into the system for such benefits or they become wards of the government and get benefits from the system that is meant to be a safety net.
Let me answer some specific points in your comments. See all the blue fonts.
As I said in my reply to Mr. Sudeshwer, it is NOT true that healthy earning children indirectly pay medical expenses for their parents. Nobody in this country pays for the health care expenses of their parents. (Some children may pay the so-called co-payments required of their parents when they incur them. They are not obligated to do so). Either the retired parents, when they worked, paid into the system for such benefits or they become wards of the government and get benefits from the system that is meant to be a safety net.
I am of the conviction that your fears are unfounded. Yes ,there is talk by the Republicans in general and teapartyers in particular to tell the masses to "eat cake". You know what happened when Mary Antoinette said the same thing to the French peasants in the 1780s---they brought the baker and his wife from Versailles to Paris and you know what happened next. Even if both houses of Congress and the White House are taken over by the Republicans such a scenario is wrought with dire consequences for the country. So they will not venture to take up drastic measures. The senior citizen population will not take it lying down. Even before anything is contemplated, so long as the Senate has more than 40 democrats they can kill any measure the Republicans attempt through the mechanism of filibuster.
I suppose usage of the word "cheating" has touched a raw nerve with many people, which is understandable.
I acknowledge the logic behind the question raised. But Mahakavi's post touches only one end of the spectrum. What about the fact that people who work here on non-immigrant visas are also required to pay into social security? After all, by definition, people on non-immigrant visas are here only on a temporary basis and isn't forcing them to pay onto a system they cannot take advantage of amoral? I am not implying that one compensates for the other but these hazards come with the package - the package of socialism!
காலபைரவன்:
I am afraid of your name (just kidding!). Let me expand a bit on why I called cheating.
In the first place when the son/daughter (who is a naturalized US citizen) originally from another country sponsors their elderly (senior) parents to apply for green card entry into US, they give a written affidavit (properly notarized) that they will be financially responsible for their parents once they are in the US and not abandon them. In that case, once the parents are in the US, if they accompany their parents to the appropriate agency to get SSN for their parents and say "here are my parents who are senior citizens, I sponsored them to get green cards and now I want them to get SSI and free medical care". What do you think the authorities would do? They will take down all particulars about the sponsors and the parents and then they will deny the request for monetary aid and medical care based on the affidavit the sponsors gave. To overcome that hurdle the sponsors would tell their elderly parents to go to the agency themselves (they might drop them there) and tell them to declare that they are on their own and they need help with income and medical care. I don't know what are all the questions the authorities would ask (like who is your sponsor, how come they don't help you at all with financial assistance, where do you live if you don't live with your children and sundry questions). If the elderly parents admit they live with their adult children they will be denied all help. They may have to lie that they don't get any support from their children even if they live with them. Then only the authorities would approve monthly monetary assistance andor medicare card. Both benefits will require an SSN which can be obtained without any problem. Tell me if this was the course of action followed, does it amount to cheating or not. There may be more to it than what I have given in a simplified form. I will leave the issue there.
I am not an expert on immigration and immigrant visa work situation. It is a law that if anybody is on a payroll in the US, social security deduction is compulsory whether the person works for a few years or permanently. There may be some relief available to them from their employer either in the form of additional income (to compensate for the 6.2% social security deduction from their paycheck) or in the event they leave the country for good there may be some arrangement to get a lump sum equivalent to what was deducted in the form of a severance package at the departure time. It is an arrangement to be negotiated with the employer. It is not illegal to do so. You see the SS deduction is required by law. What if it is not deducted and the person manages to convert his non-immigrant visa into an immigrant visa a few years down the road and stays in the country permanently? That will be illegal, won't it? So to forestall that possibility the deduction is made whether the person would be able to use the benefits in the future or not.
I am afraid of your name (just kidding!). Let me expand a bit on why I called cheating.
In the first place when the son/daughter (who is a naturalized US citizen) originally from another country sponsors their elderly (senior) parents to apply for green card entry into US, they give a written affidavit (properly notarized) that they will be financially responsible for their parents once they are in the US and not abandon them. In that case, once the parents are in the US, if they accompany their parents to the appropriate agency to get SSN for their parents and say "here are my parents who are senior citizens, I sponsored them to get green cards and now I want them to get SSI and free medical care". What do you think the authorities would do? They will take down all particulars about the sponsors and the parents and then they will deny the request for monetary aid and medical care based on the affidavit the sponsors gave. To overcome that hurdle the sponsors would tell their elderly parents to go to the agency themselves (they might drop them there) and tell them to declare that they are on their own and they need help with income and medical care. I don't know what are all the questions the authorities would ask (like who is your sponsor, how come they don't help you at all with financial assistance, where do you live if you don't live with your children and sundry questions). If the elderly parents admit they live with their adult children they will be denied all help. They may have to lie that they don't get any support from their children even if they live with them. Then only the authorities would approve monthly monetary assistance andor medicare card. Both benefits will require an SSN which can be obtained without any problem. Tell me if this was the course of action followed, does it amount to cheating or not. There may be more to it than what I have given in a simplified form. I will leave the issue there.
I am not an expert on immigration and immigrant visa work situation. It is a law that if anybody is on a payroll in the US, social security deduction is compulsory whether the person works for a few years or permanently. There may be some relief available to them from their employer either in the form of additional income (to compensate for the 6.2% social security deduction from their paycheck) or in the event they leave the country for good there may be some arrangement to get a lump sum equivalent to what was deducted in the form of a severance package at the departure time. It is an arrangement to be negotiated with the employer. It is not illegal to do so. You see the SS deduction is required by law. What if it is not deducted and the person manages to convert his non-immigrant visa into an immigrant visa a few years down the road and stays in the country permanently? That will be illegal, won't it? So to forestall that possibility the deduction is made whether the person would be able to use the benefits in the future or not.
S
Somayaji.S
Guest
It appears some kind of "Complexes" are involved in these discussions.
(quote) once the parents are in the US, if they accompany their parents to the appropriate agency to get SSN for their parents and say "here are my parents who are senior citizens, I sponsored them to get green cards and now I want them to get SSI and free medical care". What do you think the authorities would do? They will take down all particulars about the sponsors and the parents and then they will deny the request for monetary aid and medical care based on the affidavit the sponsors gave. To overcome that hurdle the sponsors would tell their elderly parents to go to the agency themselves (they might drop them there) and tell them to declare that they are on their own and they need help with income and medical care. I don't know what are all the questions the authorities would ask (like who is your sponsor, how come they don't help you at all with financial assistance, where do you live if you don't live with and sundry questions). If the elderly parents admit they live with their adult children they will be denied all help.(en-quote)
As far as we know this is TOTALLY INCORRECT.The statement "If the elderly parents admit they live with their adult children they wil be denied help" is IN-CORRECT.Not only once, Every Year we,elderly parents (GC) declare that we live with our Adult child--child's name,address and SSN--(SSN will give the Authorities the details of Employment--Tax details and so many other information)
Every Year SS sends a form:- "Declaration of Income OR Support" in May-June .--returnable in July.
OUR INCOME $ 0/= which is 100 % TRUE.In our old age we are Totally dependent only on our children .--(100 %) TRUE
One of our children gives a sighned declaration every year that that the child "Provides" us(Parents) (1) Sleeping accommodation (with heat) (2) Meals--(3) Monthly cash Assistance;- nil (100 % True)--from xx Month-xx-Date--xxxx Year." I shall continue to provide (this Support)"=YES---"I do NOT provide medical and Hospital expenses."--The program officials may verify the information =Yes.
Our Child did NOT drop us in SS office and went away-our child stayed with us through out--We did NOT say we live on our own--or we need Government support--The "Supporting" Child 's name--Child's Full Address and SS Number --our SS numbers all are recorded every year. Even at the Time of giving GC and SS they recorded all the details (including the Employment details of the "Supporting" child.)--
Without knowing all aspects of rules and regulations using the word CHEATING is NOT in good taste.
I did NOT say my children "Contribute Specifically" to their parents(our) SS--They contribute to General Pool from which the Government gives Medicare for Senior Citizens,and so weare eligible and get=>which is LEGITIMATE
(quote) once the parents are in the US, if they accompany their parents to the appropriate agency to get SSN for their parents and say "here are my parents who are senior citizens, I sponsored them to get green cards and now I want them to get SSI and free medical care". What do you think the authorities would do? They will take down all particulars about the sponsors and the parents and then they will deny the request for monetary aid and medical care based on the affidavit the sponsors gave. To overcome that hurdle the sponsors would tell their elderly parents to go to the agency themselves (they might drop them there) and tell them to declare that they are on their own and they need help with income and medical care. I don't know what are all the questions the authorities would ask (like who is your sponsor, how come they don't help you at all with financial assistance, where do you live if you don't live with and sundry questions). If the elderly parents admit they live with their adult children they will be denied all help.(en-quote)
As far as we know this is TOTALLY INCORRECT.The statement "If the elderly parents admit they live with their adult children they wil be denied help" is IN-CORRECT.Not only once, Every Year we,elderly parents (GC) declare that we live with our Adult child--child's name,address and SSN--(SSN will give the Authorities the details of Employment--Tax details and so many other information)
Every Year SS sends a form:- "Declaration of Income OR Support" in May-June .--returnable in July.
OUR INCOME $ 0/= which is 100 % TRUE.In our old age we are Totally dependent only on our children .--(100 %) TRUE
One of our children gives a sighned declaration every year that that the child "Provides" us(Parents) (1) Sleeping accommodation (with heat) (2) Meals--(3) Monthly cash Assistance;- nil (100 % True)--from xx Month-xx-Date--xxxx Year." I shall continue to provide (this Support)"=YES---"I do NOT provide medical and Hospital expenses."--The program officials may verify the information =Yes.
Our Child did NOT drop us in SS office and went away-our child stayed with us through out--We did NOT say we live on our own--or we need Government support--The "Supporting" Child 's name--Child's Full Address and SS Number --our SS numbers all are recorded every year. Even at the Time of giving GC and SS they recorded all the details (including the Employment details of the "Supporting" child.)--
Without knowing all aspects of rules and regulations using the word CHEATING is NOT in good taste.
I did NOT say my children "Contribute Specifically" to their parents(our) SS--They contribute to General Pool from which the Government gives Medicare for Senior Citizens,and so weare eligible and get=>which is LEGITIMATE
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Let me ask you a simple question. I don't want to get personal. So let me assume I am the immigrant elderly parent of a US citizen and I have been sponsored by my adult child with an affidavit for financial support (without which the immigration would not have approved my GC). Now I live with my adult child's family---I get room, and board. My child tells me "I can't give you any cash allowance, and if you get sick I can't/won't pay for your medical expenses, you are on your own, if you can go get it from the government, please do so. Also you love your grandchildren and you may watch them when they are home while we are working". Now do I consider them the same kids that I spent my "blood, toil, tears and sweat" to raise them? Isn't it against TB culture? You may say that happens in India too nowadays. But I don't and won't stand for it. If that situation came up I'd pack my bags and go back to where I came from rather than go the US government and say "my adult child (who has a good income) refuses to pay any cash allowance for my sundry needs as well as for medical care, so will you pl help me?". That is my pride.
I don't want to dwell on other issues lest it becomes unpleasant.
Dear Mahakavi,
I am from India...But going through this I have the following to say:
I think you have missed the emotional part in the response of Somayaji...Most of the TB's would not llike to get cash alowance from their kids despite staying in their son/daughter's place & may be even doing baby sitting...They feel that looking after the grand children is part of their responsibility..If the Government is giving a dole what is wrong in claiming that...So long it is legal...
In Tamil Nadu during the last regime of DMK Color TV's & flood dole of Rs 2000 was given to all irrespective of caste & class...Does it mean that the rich people who have stood in Queue to collect the dole be ashamed of it...I don't think so..If it is equitable & fair as per law then let us now create acrimony out of it
Mr. vgane"
If looking after the grandkids is part of the responsibility of the grandparents, it is equally and more of a responsibility of the adult children to open a checking account in the name of the grandparents and let the grandparents draw from that account for their personal expenses. I agree with you on the emotional part. They SHOULD NOT have to ask for allowance. The adult children MUST do this to avoid the embarrassment of their parents having to ask. Besides, the adult children are at fault for using their parents for babysitting without even paying minimum wage for such service (pl go and explore how much you have to pay for babysitting/nanny service/daycare, especially in metro areas in the northeast) but letting the grandparents go to Uncle Sam for sundry cash and medical care. You cannot have the cake and eat it too.
I agree it is the fault of the system to let such things happen. I am not questioning the legality of the procedure. I am questioning the conscience. As for rich people lining up to get a free color TV and cash dole in TN, it is equally despicable. That fact does not justify anybody going on the dole. Two wrongs do not make it right. It only adds up. I will tell them "if you want to suppress your conscience go ahead and do it". But it is not fair (legal or not). We cannot chant gAyatri mantra in one breath and go ahead and exploit the system. I will not if I were in that situation.
Remember mickles make a muckle. The Social Security system is broke. Let us not collapse it completely. No wonder Mr. Prasad is worrying about the Republicans depriving the legitimate seniors who worked and paid into the system their entitlement. These seniors paid into the system and will stand to lose if the payments are cut for them. For your information there are 44 million senior retirees in the US who worked all their life and paid into the system. When push comes to shove they have to be served first.
Having said all that, I still have sympathy for the elderly parents who come into the US. But I strongly feel it is the responsibility of the adult children to take care of them. If the parents need expensive medical care they should arrange to have such services done in India where using their dollars they can go quite far. Many US seniors go to countries like India on "medical vacation".
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S
Somayaji.S
Guest
Vgane:-(quote) I think you have missed the emotional part in the response of Somayaji. (en-quote)
Sri.Vgane--Some people think when they lead a very comfortable and cozy life,the whole world leads such a comfortable and cozy life--they don't understand other's agony and pain.
Now I shall tell you my mental agony and pain. My daughter and son-in law were leading a very comfortable life for 13 years with their two children in USA.--My son-in-law as Junior Vice president of a company was making a fortune. We never had any inclination to settle in America,except for short visits (6 months). My son as an Indian Chartered Accountant was taking care of us VERY WELL.--with a Maruthi car and excellent Company lease house.
on June 10th,2006,at 13 ours--16 minutes--17 seconds my son-in law breathed his lost--after suffering 8 months with Glioblastomo multi forme relapse( a worst type of brain Cancer)--on heraing--I had a heart attack and a mild stroke also in India.First my son came to help them for radiation and chemotherapy.First my son-in law lost his job--then my son lost his Indian Lucrative job, due to long absence..America does not recognise Indian C.A. He is in some Accountant job--he is yet to clear his CPA and his wife cleared her CPA--living a little away where they could get jobs..
My daughter being--- I.I.T.-M.Tech and American Ph.D. manages HER family from her OWN income with 2 children as Science Professor. My wife takes care of her children at home and I give them a little Physical and Emotional support which my grand children (middle School- and Elementary School) badly need in the absence of their father.My daughter is NOT getting even 50% of what my son-in law was getting.
My daughter takes care of us VERY WELL.She has kept us very comfortable,both physically and emotionally within her financial limitations and committments..We do not need any "Pocket Money" for Our "SERVICE" to our own child and grandchildren.
My daughter-in law is also very understanding type.
Only a Lady Doctor,family friend of ours (M.D-T.B) told us "being Senior Citizens,you are "ELIGIBLE" for Medicare and that will lessen your daughter's financial burden."--She ONLY told us "You need Not have any sentimental hesitation--your son-in law has contributed a lot of money to SS from which your grand children get the Aid and your daughter,son and daughter -in law all are contributing to common SS pool.".
We do not go for Medical help every morning.Once in 2 to 3 months we go for trivial problems like cold -caugh--fever--pain etc.
Me and my wife have totally Lost faith in God.We are more afraid of God than "Love"him
But my daughter in spite of horoundous calamity, still believes Lord Hanuman and every Tuesday observes Near Fasting(a couple of bananas and a little milk--that too on our insistence,)(No Cultural aberration)
I feel that there is NO question of Cheating--Cultural Aberration etc.
I feel,I better STOP interacting in this thread .
Sri.Vgane--Some people think when they lead a very comfortable and cozy life,the whole world leads such a comfortable and cozy life--they don't understand other's agony and pain.
Now I shall tell you my mental agony and pain. My daughter and son-in law were leading a very comfortable life for 13 years with their two children in USA.--My son-in-law as Junior Vice president of a company was making a fortune. We never had any inclination to settle in America,except for short visits (6 months). My son as an Indian Chartered Accountant was taking care of us VERY WELL.--with a Maruthi car and excellent Company lease house.
on June 10th,2006,at 13 ours--16 minutes--17 seconds my son-in law breathed his lost--after suffering 8 months with Glioblastomo multi forme relapse( a worst type of brain Cancer)--on heraing--I had a heart attack and a mild stroke also in India.First my son came to help them for radiation and chemotherapy.First my son-in law lost his job--then my son lost his Indian Lucrative job, due to long absence..America does not recognise Indian C.A. He is in some Accountant job--he is yet to clear his CPA and his wife cleared her CPA--living a little away where they could get jobs..
My daughter being--- I.I.T.-M.Tech and American Ph.D. manages HER family from her OWN income with 2 children as Science Professor. My wife takes care of her children at home and I give them a little Physical and Emotional support which my grand children (middle School- and Elementary School) badly need in the absence of their father.My daughter is NOT getting even 50% of what my son-in law was getting.
My daughter takes care of us VERY WELL.She has kept us very comfortable,both physically and emotionally within her financial limitations and committments..We do not need any "Pocket Money" for Our "SERVICE" to our own child and grandchildren.
My daughter-in law is also very understanding type.
Only a Lady Doctor,family friend of ours (M.D-T.B) told us "being Senior Citizens,you are "ELIGIBLE" for Medicare and that will lessen your daughter's financial burden."--She ONLY told us "You need Not have any sentimental hesitation--your son-in law has contributed a lot of money to SS from which your grand children get the Aid and your daughter,son and daughter -in law all are contributing to common SS pool.".
We do not go for Medical help every morning.Once in 2 to 3 months we go for trivial problems like cold -caugh--fever--pain etc.
Me and my wife have totally Lost faith in God.We are more afraid of God than "Love"him
But my daughter in spite of horoundous calamity, still believes Lord Hanuman and every Tuesday observes Near Fasting(a couple of bananas and a little milk--that too on our insistence,)(No Cultural aberration)
I feel that there is NO question of Cheating--Cultural Aberration etc.
I feel,I better STOP interacting in this thread .
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I agree with you. Using the system is not misuse. But abusing the system is.
Dear Mahakavi Sir,
I still differ from you...In case Government does not want to create a barrier of class & made the distribution of doles be equitable there is nothing wrong in it..We should not unnecessarily bring our religion into it...May be you can say that in case a rich person claims it , he or she can probably gift it to another person who is in dire need & unable to get it (may be he does not have a ration card) as a Dhan....But do not brand the person who is taking the dole as someone unholy & do not question his intentions..
Dear Somayaji,
Your story is heartrending...It was an emotional trauma that you & your family members have undergone...
We should not ascribe motives to ones actions...
We definitely cherish your postings...Wishing your family members all the very best.
Your situation does not fit the standard claim made by all others. I am convinced you are not motivated to "milk" the US government considering your circumstances. My gripe is against lots of others who offer the slightest excuse to abuse the system such as "we pay into the system and hence we can let our parents use it" since that hypothesis does not hold water based on the economics I mentioned earlier. Pl accept my apologies if I hurt your sentiments (unintentionally, of course).
tbs
0
hi
we have day care for elders in our area....all the inmates are GUJARATIS....its for indian seniors...i dont think anybody contributed
to SS and medicare benefits....but are getting SS and medicare benefits...its better to apply for SS and medicare through
some day care organisations...they take care of paperwork/legal work....many gujaratis elders dont know english at alll....
they speak only Gujarati.....still they get social service benefits...they help each other....
we have day care for elders in our area....all the inmates are GUJARATIS....its for indian seniors...i dont think anybody contributed
to SS and medicare benefits....but are getting SS and medicare benefits...its better to apply for SS and medicare through
some day care organisations...they take care of paperwork/legal work....many gujaratis elders dont know english at alll....
they speak only Gujarati.....still they get social service benefits...they help each other....
prasad1
Active member
Inmates are usually in the jail, nursing homes have residents, daycares have visitors.
But Mr. Mahakavi's point is still valid. I have feeling that some of the loopholes will be eliminated. So enjoy it till it is available and legal.
Mr. Mahakavi is right about declaring the babysitting service of the elders. Legally speaking that must be monetized and declared for Income purpose. Similarly boarding and lodging too needs to be monetized. That is what is expected in an American system. If the children gave their assurance of supporting their parents, it should have some value.
All said and done like I said before, if no law is broken go ahead and use it.
mahakavi said:
I know it is the law. Clearly we are not only discussing what is legal but also what is moral. Your gripe, if I may so so, against elderly immigrants using SSI benefits is that they did not work in US and pay into the system. If that is considered amoral, then asking non-immigrants to pay into a system meant only for citizens and immigrants is also amoral. Isn't it?
mahakavi said:
I have no problem in making immigrants pay SS. SS payments should start after non-immigrants convert to immigrants!
prasad1
Active member
கால பைரவன்;145030 said:
Now legally everybody earning a living in US must pay FICA. That is the rule, if you do not like it there is no compulsion that you have to work in USA. It might be immoral to ask non-immigrant to pay FICA, but it is illegal not to pay. US regulation is not going to be changed for that.
So there is no tit for tat on that matter.
If an US citizen relinquishes his citizenship, he/she too stop getting SS benefits, even if they have paid FICA.
கால பைரவன்;145030 said:
The current law does not differentiate between the two classes since the uniformity of deduction is the primary rule. In order to differentiate between the two a separate law has to be enacted which is not on the radar of Congress. If you think about it there are lots of issues in the country concerning different groups of people that the law needs to be changed. Only those which are actively lobbied or vote-getting ones are taken up by Congress. What you are stating is a minor blip nobody would pick up in the halls of Congress. In the mean time I'd talk to the company concerned. They can work out a deal.
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