questions wandering in my head

[ctfxc]

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This is what is happening in tribal society in the interior forests. Wife is not your
property.

Really which tribal societies?

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

ctfxc

If I name them I will get into unnecessary trouble. People of those states will
protest. You can imagine - I have given a hint , dense forests not visited by
travellers and other people.

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

ctfxc

I dont mean to say something bad about them. They are absolutely simple
and honest people, no inhibitions, no preconceived notions, very warm to
the visitors ( if you happen to go ) and do not nurture any ill-will against
anyone.

 

[sangom]

"woman" was an accessory, a chattel in most ancient and medieval societies. We have come a very long way from that situation and the change has been very fast and astounding among the tabra community during the last 20 years or so. The present situation of marriage in tabra community, in my view, may be seen here.

We have to necessarily adjust to the changing scenario. Since it is a "market" there will be many buyers for the same item and many sellers offering similar items like வாழைக்காய், வெண்டைக்காய், கத்திரிக்காய், etc. It is for the buyer to decide which he will buy and which he won't. Spouse is not an "only" spare-part which alone will have the perfect fit

 

[Nara]

This is what is happening in tribal society in the interior forests. Wife is not your
property.

I hope the civilized ones can learn a thing or two from these tribal people and not think of our wives as property.

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

I am out of it, I am a bachelor.

I forgot who said this - In the name of civilization, you have decivilised the
society. When you came what did you bring, and when you go what are you
going take. This has happened inbetween.

 

[Iyyarooraan]

Hello sir. You are right. What exists, what we clamour for is all because of what happened in between. World goes on in spite of the fact that exception is not a rule every where. People maybe still thinking that they can do a 'Trishanku'.

 

[vvskoman]

ya this is vvskoman after long time...
see i couldmt find to go thro blogs and genl.discussions since i am happily married and recently blessed with a son...

ok dear one thing i clearly observe and find true is that we brahmins become very materialistic and we are behind money and status we lost our traditions....
we are supposed to teach vedha and follow the principles laid down there...
its ok the world is materialistic... and so we are....
buvva venumolliyo daily....

regarding marriage one thing u people should understand....
nobody wll come across ur life without any spiritual connection...
ur partner and pattern of life are decided by ur karma...

whether u believe it or not its true....
theory of karma only solves all ur queries.....

if u r bound to enjoy married life with a good partner....
u will get it, nobody can stop by any means i.e, preventing u to love somebody,
forcing u to accept a horoscope matched girl...whatsoever techniques u people are talking about....

all the techniques used by men will lead only to the fruits of ur karma only....

i strongly believe this....
to believe quietly watch the happenings around u and
ask urself frequently why why....why... why...

the answer falls place on all ur karmas....

u can apply theory of karma not only to marriage but to all factors.....

try it think it and tell it......
to me...
bye vvskoman

 

[amala]

Well said Mr VVSJi

 

[kunjuppu]

dear vvs,

re your post #108.

i find it easy to blame our karma for all that happens to us. because we cannot explain our sorrows or joys of this world, do we have to attribute it to our earned carryovers from the previous births?

i dont know. of late i have come to think, that everything happens at random, with no definite patterns or explanations. or the explanations are beyond our comprehension.

of late i see lots of bad things happening to folks who are not nice. is it cause and immediate effect, all in this janma. no carry over to the next for karma fulfilment?

i am all confused.

 

[ShivKC]

dear vvs,

re your post #108.

i find it easy to blame our karma for all that happens to us. because we cannot explain our sorrows or joys of this world, do we have to attribute it to our earned carryovers from the previous births?

i dont know. of late i have come to think, that everything happens at random, with no definite patterns or explanations. or the explanations are beyond our comprehension.

of late i see lots of bad things happening to folks who are not nice. is it cause and immediate effect, all in this janma. no carry over to the next for karma fulfilment?

i am all confused.

the answer to this confusion lies with no body in this world other than god

 

[kunjuppu]

the answer to this confusion lies with no body in this world other than god

shiv,

as one who has faith, i agree with you. i believe in a supreme being above us. but should we attribute every one of our misfortunes as being sanctioned by him for our past sins in our past lives ? i am not so sure. thats all.

 

[prasad1]

shiv,

as one who has faith, i agree with you. i believe in a supreme being above us. but should we attribute every one of our misfortunes as being sanctioned by him for our past sins in our past lives ? i am not so sure. thats all.

Kunjuppu we missed you.

The bank keeps a record of our credits and debits, similarly the credits and debits of our action is kept in our Karma bank. IMO there is no need for any outside interference.
My God is not the actor, but everything happens in Brahman. He does not do any favors ,execute, judge. Just as space does not differentiate between good and bad.

 

[renuka]

shiv,

as one who has faith, i agree with you. i believe in a supreme being above us. but should we attribute every one of our misfortunes as being sanctioned by him for our past sins in our past lives ? i am not so sure. thats all.

Best policy is to just life with the thought that I am also "Divine" but a "Divinity" that has forgotten his/her true glory some what like a Karmic Amnesia and picking up bits and pieces of life to reach the final destination.

So no need to blame or praise the Supreme God...just look at life's fortunes and misfortunes as exam papers that has been set by our previous actions.

When we start to praise God when things go right and Blame God when things go wrong we never really learn and we have to sit for many more exam papers again and again.

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

The answer for this can be found in yoga vasistha. In this sage Vasistha instructs
Lord Rama.

In one chapter he says that ' do not bring in God. He has nothing to do with your
present state. He is just a witness. You are the cause for your state, be it sorrow or
be it happiness. If you have committed any bad act you suffer. If you have done
something good, you are now happy. '

God is not one who holds a weighing balance and tells you ' look here you have
committed sin, you go to hell; you have done something good, you go to heaven '

You reap what you sow.

 

[ctfxc]

it's sometimes difficult to decide what is good or bad because these ideas often depend on perspective. Let's take a simple example. To kill a person is wrong... But what if say you had the chance to kill hitler before he rose to power. Or say you hadthe chance to kill hitlers mother when she was pregnant with baby hitler... wouldn't you? this is kind of a very simple and perhaps cliche example, but my point is that good and bad are not black and white... But rather it's lots of different shades of gray. The karma to bank/credit analogy is a good explanation...that essentially says if you do good you receive good, and if you do bad you receive bad. I think that as humans, this concepts tends to become confusing when we see others doing good things -- but receiving obstacles and difficulties in their life or vice versa. So we humans, in order to justify these circumstances, come up with the idea of past life deeds or misdeeds affecting our present life. It's a good way to teach large masses of people to do good - at least out of fear... Or teach them to hope that by doing good they will receive good in return. it allows for society to run more smoothly and because of it we are perhaps able to sleep better at night with a clear conscience and a positive attitude towards the human race and towards the power of good. but who KNOWS whether all this is really true or not?

 

[renuka]

it's sometimes difficult to decide what is good or bad because these ideas often depend on perspective. Let's take a simple example. To kill a person is wrong... But what if say you had the chance to kill hitler before he rose to power. Or say you hadthe chance to kill hitlers mother when she was pregnant with baby hitler... wouldn't you? this is kind of a very simple and perhaps cliche example, but my point is that good and bad are not black and white... But rather it's lots of different shades of gray. The karma to bank/credit analogy is a good explanation...that essentially says if you do good you receive good, and if you do bad you receive bad. I think that as humans, this concepts tends to become confusing when we see others doing good things -- but receiving obstacles and difficulties in their life or vice versa. So we humans, in order to justify these circumstances, come up with the idea of past life deeds or misdeeds affecting our present life. It's a good way to teach large masses of people to do good - at least out of fear... Or teach them to hope that by doing good they will receive good in return. it allows for society to run more smoothly and because of it we are perhaps able to sleep better at night with a clear conscience and a positive attitude towards the human race and towards the power of good. but who KNOWS whether all this is really true or not?

I get your point but the fact remains that we dont know our past birth, we dont know even tomorrow..so what we have is only the present.
Thats why the ancient sages stressed upon the present actions as we cant undo the past but we can shape the future with the righteous conduct in the present.

So no points for guessing that Sathyam Vada and Dharmam Cara is in present tense.

 

[prasad1]

The answer for this can be found in yoga vasistha. In this sage Vasistha instructs
Lord Rama.

In one chapter he says that ' do not bring in God. He has nothing to do with your
present state. He is just a witness. You are the cause for your state, be it sorrow or
be it happiness. If you have committed any bad act you suffer. If you have done
something good, you are now happy. '

God is not one who holds a weighing balance and tells you ' look here you have
committed sin, you go to hell; you have done something good, you go to heaven '

You reap what you sow.

This is good, I got to add it to my collection. I had a chance to read about yoga vashistha. I am going to read in depth, Thanks

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

Post 117 of Renuji,

There are many arguments on fate -vs- freewill. What you are now is the result
of your previous births, your free will exercised in the past. What you will be in
your next birth depends upon your present actions , your present free will.

HH Jagatguru Maha sannidhanam of Sringeri says that in vyavaharika fate comes
in and in paramarthika your effort, free will. Only by effort you will see the
kingdom of God within.

Yoga Vasistha ( I am quoting this again and again ) clearly says that your effort
is the sine qua non, and you cant just sit idle and blame fate or God.

 

[sangom]

it's sometimes difficult to decide what is good or bad because these ideas often depend on perspective. Let's take a simple example. To kill a person is wrong... But what if say you had the chance to kill hitler before he rose to power. Or say you hadthe chance to kill hitlers mother when she was pregnant with baby hitler... wouldn't you? this is kind of a very simple and perhaps cliche example, but my point is that good and bad are not black and white... But rather it's lots of different shades of gray. The karma to bank/credit analogy is a good explanation...that essentially says if you do good you receive good, and if you do bad you receive bad. I think that as humans, this concepts tends to become confusing when we see others doing good things -- but receiving obstacles and difficulties in their life or vice versa. So we humans, in order to justify these circumstances, come up with the idea of past life deeds or misdeeds affecting our present life. It's a good way to teach large masses of people to do good - at least out of fear... Or teach them to hope that by doing good they will receive good in return. it allows for society to run more smoothly and because of it we are perhaps able to sleep better at night with a clear conscience and a positive attitude towards the human race and towards the power of good. but who KNOWS whether all this is really true or not?

Shri ctfxc,

I believe that good & bad can be judged fairly well if we follow the dictum "do unto others as we would have them to do unto us", from Christianity.

Karma is inextricably linked to actions - both good & bad. Here again, I tend to believe the Buddhist line that by our karma we create conditions for another life here, to suffer, to enjoy or get a mix of both. Not necessarily that the very doer A of the Karma gets reborn as a new person to enjoy and/or to suffer the aftereffects of A's karma; it could be any xyz. But the fact will remain that such xyz is experiencing the results of A's karma and since humans have no method of knowing their past janma or karma, it goes if we comfort ourselves by saying "this is due to my poorva janma karma", etc.

If a group of people commence doing more and more of good karmas, they will engender the birth of more and more fresh lives which will enjoy more and suffer less in their lives. But this is not what we see generally. Especially in the case of India, we have probably never had a glorious golden era (as often claimed - without substantiation - by the religious minded); is it not possible that it is so because of the faulty teachings given to our people by our religion? (There are other countries which enjoyed great prosperity even in the current era.) That is why I earnestly plead that Indians keep a healthy distance from religion (any religion) and start doing their secular duties and follow the dictum of not doing anything which they won't like others doing to them. May be then we will gradually move towards a very glorious era.

 

[vvskoman]

Oh my God,

(see He comes again)

started by ctfxc about his confusion about business of marriage, we
came a long way analyzing the life, karma, prosperity, God's existence and at the end
moving towards a grlorious era by distancing ourself from the religion.....

let me ascertain one thing.... again and again...

theory of karma is not to comfort yourself.... it is to make u understand the truth.

Think this para seriously to analyze ur doubts :
when u see it scientifically all materialistic things have got some chain of connections between them...
there is definite formula of cycles. Our sanadhana dharmam try to explain the chain of actions, reactions and
connection of souls....


even after my explanation of karmapalan which is soul-centred, we are still talking and getting confused about
the things outward;;;;


ur born with specific cause ;; till u find it u will not understand anything....

but one thing great is to keep on asking urself why why and why
it will lead to ur salvation....

about society's problems.... ur collective problem is society problem...

first solve urs find happiness within u...

u will creat happiness on others... this is a chain reaction of souls....


this is what all religions say...

Dear Mr. Sangom,

by doing good/bad things u dont creat a condition for rebirth...

rebirth happens still ur paba karma is cleared or till ur soul understand and follow which is punya and paba once
ur paba karma is erased, there is no rebirth...


ur punya karma by giving all happiness helps ur soul to clear the paba karma...

still the freedom given to u is not taken away.....


so where is end of this process.... thats what KRISHNA says during the cycle when the evil is overpowering good, he
promises to come and refuse the freedom of evil soul and create a good society again...

i believe this theory not by reading theology,
not by listening halfboiled hifi gurus

just by analyzing myself, what happened to me, why it happended
what i was seeing around, asking myself why it is happening....
this questions were answered at right time at right place .... once u understand then only u accept
RIGHT UNDERSTANDING IS THE KEY.

any body not to believe....

no compulsion... it is ur freedom...
those who slightly feel this explanation somewhat hold good....
good dont ask me questions...

....
...
....


ASK YOURSELF

TKS. VVS

 

[ctfxc]

How about famine and genocide? holocaust, earthquakes, tsunamis, etc... so ALL people who die from these types of causes deserve it?
--because of some misdeeds they performed during a previous birth?

ok let's assume this is true... People who performed misdeeds in a previous life will be punished in a future life.
But why did they perform those misdeeds in the first place? Why weren't they guided by a superpower to lead a more virtuous life style?
Why are they not able to gain this insight? Because of a misdeed of a previous life before that?

 

[renuka]

How about famine and genocide? holocaust, earthquakes, tsunamis, etc... so ALL people who die from these types of causes deserve it?
--because of some misdeeds they performed during a previous birth?

ok let's assume this is true... People who performed misdeeds in a previous life will be punished in a future life.
But why did they perform those misdeeds in the first place? Why weren't they guided by a superpower to lead a more virtuous life style?
Why are they not able to gain this insight? Because of a misdeed of a previous life before that?

Karma isnt as easy as we think it is.What we actually think we know is just the tip of the iceberg.

Death is death better known as a transition but the process of dying differs.
We cant really say that anyone dying an unnatural death has sinned hence he/she deserved it.

Best of men in the Puranas also have died of unnatural death.Even Avatars have died of unnatural death.

Suffering isnt all the while due to bad karma.Some people have used up most of their Karmic balance and chose a life of suffering to hasten their journey towards God.

Technically speaking Hinduism does not talk about Sin and being punished as most other religions do.
In Hinduism every action has a reaction and everything that appears "good" or "bad" are just experiences that we go through in life.

Ok coming to why no superpower guides us to lead a virtuous life..well my dear.
When something goes wrong most people say "where is God? What is He doing?Why can't He guide people"
But when something goes right most people attribute everything to their free will and capability.
So why can't we take the blame on ourselves and try to rectify our flaws.

God guides us if only we listen to our inner voice. But how many of us do this?
I will give you a simple example..just say a person wants to rob a bank..he has to plan it in such a way that he doesnt get caught.
If he was right in the 1st place why has he to hide and try to avoid getting caught?
He has to hide the money somewhere after robbing the bank too.Why? Cos he knows he has broken the law and done wrong.
Ok who can guide him?
The answer is himself.
If only he stopped to ask himself.."am i doing the right thing?"

God has given us Buddhi and Viveka to know right from wrong.How much more do we want God to do for us.
Thats why I always feel Ask not what God can do for us but ask what we can do for God.

He has given us everything but we fail to hear Him in ourselves.

[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Uddharet ātmana ātmānam
na ātmānam avsādyet
ātmaiva hi ātmano bandhur
ātmaiva ripus ātmanāh


"One should uplift oneself by oneself
One should never degrade oneself
Self alone can be a friend to oneself
Self alone can be an enemy of oneself"
Gita 6:5[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

Philosopher Renukaji,
You are right. Even Jivanmuktas attain vivekamukti only after exhausting the
prarabda karma. Ideal example is Bhagawan Ramana Maharishi. Because they
have attained realization and are in exalted state of bliss they do not feel the
pain ( nor pleasure ).

 

[ctfxc]

Sorry I don't mean to oppose these ideas so much... I'm just mentioning things that seem illogical to me.

understanding karma fully is obviously beyond our human capacities. but I feel that with karma, it's easy to say that this is the way it is .... and when it comes to things we cannot explain -- then it is beyond us.... but we should still accept it completely.

Suffering isnt all the while due to bad karma.Some people have used up most of their Karmic balance and chose a life of suffering to hasten their journey towards God.

True, I understand how some people may choose a life of suffering in order to journey towards God.
But in the case of victims of the holocaust, natural disasters, famine, slavery -- these individuals did not choose a life of suffering, it was given to them.
Given...not only to one or two people ... but rather, thousands and thousands at a time. I feel these incidences cannot be ignored -- not just in terms of unnatural deaths but also in terms of suffering (that was not chosen). Attributing these deaths to karma seems to assert that there are no innocent victims of crime. Thus ( sometimes) ideas of justice are made to accuse the innocent and exonerate the guilty.