Racism in the U.S.

[Raghy]

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Please quote the exact portion of the post 79 about which you are saying so much about.

Sowbagyavathy Happyhindu, Greetings.

( I am sorry, I didn't greet you in one or two messages. I am ashamed to have slipped from my own standards).

You responeded to Sowbagyavathy Vishalakshi Ramani's grief when she wrote "In India we are hated because we are supposed to be forward caste". In post #79 it is quoted. The theme of post #79 was denial of opportunities for someone who wishes to learn. Denial at Vedapadasala was clearly mentioned. A case was built up to justify hatred folowed by these words ....

Unfortunately Mrs.VR, during colonial period, some people prevented others from adopting the upanayanam ritual; or even if it was performed, still looked down upon others as shudras and attested so. This lead to resentment.

. There was a time I had to stand for the harijan in our vilage; when the time comes, I will stand for the brahmin too.

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

When karna was not allowed to compete because of his parentage belonging to another varna, duryodana immediately made him a king; so social status was more important and valued than birth in the end. Vidura was an advisor to the king and highly respected for his scholarship despite being born to a sudra Education and wealth did move up a person in the respect/recognition/ acceptance scale. This was true always.

Raja raja chola and cholas claim to kshatriyahood and decendance from surya and this is accepted by all.

In my opinion, brahmins are made to carry an unnecessary guilt burden by some for self serving reasons. Those who feel guilty can do expiatory prayaschithas or even disown their birth as a brahmin if they want. There are millions of good values with brahmins and brahminism, which will definitely survive and flourish. Brahmins have survived physical elimination by muslims and christians and can easily weather vitriolic attacks of brahmin haters in this forum.

Dear Sri. Sarang, Greetings.

Duryodhana could offer Karna a kingdom; but he could not make him a Kshatriya. Kingdom or not, still Karna was ridiculed before Kurukshetra and during Kurukshetra. Vidhura was the son of Vyasa.

I have not heard about Surya Vamsa for Rajaraja Chola. I did not learn Arulmozhi Varman like that. Kindly correct me if I am wrong, please.

Brahmins are not required to carry any guilt burden. I know, I don't, although I grew up in a brahmin home. The last paragraph in the quoted message doesn't apply to me. I like to skip it, please.

Cheers!

 

[happyhindu]

Sowbagyavathy Happyhindu, Greetings.

( I am sorry, I didn't greet you in one or two messages. I am ashamed to have slipped from my own standards).

You responeded to Sowbagyavathy Vishalakshi Ramani's grief when she wrote "In India we are hated because we are supposed to be forward caste". In post #79 it is quoted. The theme of post #79 was denial of opportunities for someone who wishes to learn. Denial at Vedapadasala was clearly mentioned. A case was built up to justify hatred folowed by these words .....

Unfortunately Mrs.VR, during colonial period, some people prevented others from adopting the upanayanam ritual; or even if it was performed, still looked down upon others as shudras and attested so. This lead to resentment.

There was a time I had to stand for the harijan in our vilage; when the time comes, I will stand for the brahmin too.

Cheers!

I do not know where you see a case built up to justify hatered or any such thing. Read the post in its entireity along with the paragraphs that follows it.

 

[prasad1]

Brahmins are not required to carry any guilt burden. I know, I don't, although I grew up in a brahmin home.

Mr. Raghy.
That statement should apply to majority of the members in this site. Unfortunately to the BB and Brahmin apologist this point is not driven in.

 

[Nara]

While bad turns in the economy affect everyone regardless of race, they affect racial minorities, especially blacks, much more severely. One aspect of this is the so called sub-prime mortgages, leading to reckless lending driven by perverse incentives (a broker made 7 times more commission for sub-prime loan than a prime-rate loan). All this came to a head about 4 years ago and we are still reeling from the aftermath.

Recently Center for Responsible Lending released a report with the tile "Lost Ground, 2011: Disparities in Mortgage Lending and Foreclosures" that illustrates a clear case of racial bias, if not downright racism in lending practices. I give below just a few highlights, for more read the report at Lost Ground, 2011: Disparities in Mortgage Lending and Foreclosures

"Loan type and race and ethnicity are strongly linked. African Americans and Latinos were much more likely to receive high interest rate (subprime) loans and loans with features that are associated with higher foreclosures, specifically prepayment penalties and hybrid or option ARMs (adjustable rate mortgage). "

"These disparities were evident even comparing borrowers within the same credit score ranges. In fact, the disparities were especially pronounced for borrowers with higher credit scores. For example, among borrowers with a FICO score of over 660 (indicating good credit), African Americans and Latinos received a high interest rate loan more than three times as often as white borrowers. " (Emphasis mine)

"Racial and ethnic differences in foreclosure rates persist even after accounting for differences in borrower incomes.... For example, approximately 10 percent of higher-income African-American borrowers and 15 percent of higher-income Latino borrowers have lost their home to foreclosure, compared with 4.6 percent of higher income non-Hispanic white borrowers. "

"Approximately one quarter of all Latino and African-American borrowers have lost their home to foreclosure or are seriously delinquent, compared to just under 12 percent for white borrowers."

​

In response to the financial crisis the central bank of U.S. called Fed gave 7.77 Trillion dollars (yes, that is Trillion with a T) at an interest rate of 0.001%, and the Bankers lavished themselves with billions of dollars of bonuses.

Yet, the government has not chosen to aggressively help the home owners stay in their homes. Recently a 103 year old black woman faced eviction from a home in which she had lived for 53 years. Fortunately, the sheriff’s deputies, supported by the Atlanta Police Chief, refused to evict the old woman. (For more click here.)

Such individual acts of compassion is not a substitute to what the the government can do. Where is Obama on this issue?

Cheers!

 

[prasad1]

HOME LOAN MODIFICATION, should have been demanded before bank bailout. All the money given to the bank was wasted and poor homeowners were not helped. I do understand that some of the home loans were inappropriate, and to an extent criminal, but majority of the homeowners were unwilling partner. So a blanket reduction of rate or principle was warranted. Unfortunately that is not going to happen.

 

[kunjuppu]

HOME LOAN MODIFICATION, should have been demanded before bank bailout. All the money given to the bank was wasted and poor homeowners were not helped. I do understand that some of the home loans were inappropriate, and to an extent criminal, but majority of the homeowners were unwilling partner. So a blanket reduction of rate or principle was warranted. Unfortunately that is not going to happen.

i have seen quite a few shows on CNN and other networks...

that the mortgage brokers, went after the poor and ignorant - read blacks and hispanics.

on one hand, the carrot was, big houses, small mortgages for a limited period, 5 years or so maybe, with the offer, that after the said period, thanks to the 'expected rise in value' of the house, the owner, could sell the property and make a handsome profit.

the premises here:
- housing prices will always go up
- if you cannot pay the current mortgage, we will include this in the principal, thus incurring further interest, which the sob's had no clue, what it meant in real cost
-if the clients did not accept the offer that they could not refuse, they were threatened with eviction and even prison - all this based on the ignorance of the poor of the usa
- the quiet agreement from the local bank branch managers, who knew all this was going on, but who along with the brokers, were set to make huge profits, and who, in reality, got away with all this money. nobody came after them. even today
- wall street knew about this, but this was immediate cash profits to a few, and this was in the order of millions. would i care, if i ruined the country, if today, i could make 100 million dolla? good question kunjuppu

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Kunjuppu Ji,

Four factors contributed to the housing bubble and it's subsequent burst:

First and foremost it was fueled by an idiotic idea, starting with the Clinton administration (nurtured and developed by the then 'wonderkid' Henry Cisenaros - Clinton HUD secretary - that the 'American Dream' meant that all should have access to owning homes). So Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were strengthened and authorized to back up the mortgages.

Second, as you have said, the banks found a way to give out these 'easy' mortgages, and make money, based on the FM&FM backing. In fact, FM&FM have asked the banks to lower their standards for qualifying for the mortgages.

Third, folks, who have no business acquiring homes did so. No one pushed them. Almost all of them were greedy and thought that the house prices will go up forever.

Fourth, the banks found another way to make money, selling derivatives on the bundled high risk mortgages, except they thought that the risk was covered by the FM&FM backing (uncle Sam).

So that is what happened - when the market burst because of economy (high variable interest), the government pointed a finger at the banks, and bailed them out anyway, because they knew who really caused the mayhem.

I supported President Bush on terrorism, but unfortunately, his administration went to sleep on this, and thus must bear all the responsibility.

But then the blame lies with the democrats too, especially with the twosome (Barney Frank and Chris Dodd), who are both conveniently retiring or have retired.

Shows you the perils of social engineering by a government. (We will talk about Singapore some other time).

Regards,
KRS

 

[Yamaka]

Hello ALL: Mumia, Police, Race and Justice in the US

Today, I heard that Mumia Abu-Jamal is NOT going to the gallows! The Prosecutor is not going to Appeal the case - Mumia will stay in the prison for life....for "allegedly killing a police officer", which as a former Black Panther he denies the charges of murder.

This case stirred up the whole nation.. nay the world for a long time!

What say you?

Cheers.



ps. And Gov Blogo of IL got 14 years of jail for trying to sell BHO's Senate Seat!!! Can this happen in India, folks?

 

[KRS]

Thanks for the response, Srimathi VR Ji.

Ours is a very unique culture and I will never apologize for it.

We are all guests here and I appreciate your contributions to furthering the interests of our community.

Regards,
KRS

Dear Sir,

Namaste ray2:

Good that Nataraja is still dancing. May be if He stops the world will come to a grinding halt and perish too

Already bleak predictions are driving people nuts and pushing them towards Kudhkushi (suicides)

[Kudh + kushi = satisfying oneself.]

How can suicide satisfy a person when he is not going to there any more???

A Point to ponder!

I guess Life is back to normal in the Forum -

despite the Adam to Zeus thread-
trying to discourage B.B. and :brick:.

with warm regards,
Mrs. V. R.

 

[zebra16]

​

In response to the financial crisis the central bank of U.S. called Fed gave 7.77 Trillion dollars (yes, that is Trillion with a T) at an interest rate of 0.001%, and the Bankers lavished themselves with billions of dollars of bonuses.
Cheers!

Sri Nara,

Please help me to understand this. The reason for default of sub prime mortgages, as I understand, is that the the borrowers could not cope up with the rise in interest rates and consequently the increase in EMIs. This produced a cascading effect and left the whole world in financial tatters.

Could not have the FED or the US congress provided interest subvention and compensated the interest differential to the sub prime borrowers (so that the borrowers are not burdened with additional interest)? This would have helped the borrowers to keep their homes, would not have depressed the real estate market unduly, and brought a considerable relief to the whole of US. I also think the cost would have been much less than the 7.77 trillion pumped into the market.

Instead, Paulson brought down every institution including Freddy Mac, Fanny May, AIG, GM Motors etc. and allowed the fat bankers to take home billions as bonuses.

Regards,

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

dear Mr. Raghy,

This is enough to prove that you are above castes and creeds and are

a humane human who will fight for equality and justice! :clap2:

Sowbagyavathy Happyhindu, Greetings.

( I am sorry, I didn't greet you in one or two messages. I am ashamed to have slipped from my own standards).

You responeded to Sowbagyavathy Vishalakshi Ramani's grief when she wrote "In India we are hated because we are supposed to be forward caste". In post #79 it is quoted. The theme of post #79 was denial of opportunities for someone who wishes to learn. Denial at Vedapadasala was clearly mentioned. A case was built up to justify hatred folowed by these words ..... There was a time I had to stand for the harijan in our vilage; when the time comes, I will stand for the brahmin too.

Cheers!

 

[sarang]

The Tiruvalangadu copper-plates of the sixth year of Rajendra- Chola I


(V. 4.) The eye of the three worlds was the Sun[2] from whom sprang the sprouts of all (families of) kings. From him (i.e., the Sun) was born by concentration (manana), Manu,[3] the first of kings whose name became (thus) conformable to (its) meaning.
(V. 5.) Great Ikshvaku[4] was born (as) his son ; of him, in great battles the enemies of gods (i.e., the danavas) were greatly afraid. The three worlds, though completely immersed I the ocean of his spotless fame, (still) enjoyed extreme delight.[5]

* * * * *

(V. 27.) The jewel of that prosperous family was king Sibi,


* * * * *

(V. 43.) In the family of that (king) of extensive glory was born the emperor kochchengannan.

* * * * *

(V. 61.) His son Arunmolivarma was born like another Murari (Vishnu) supporting on his two arms, long like the prasa (weapon), the glorious (goddess) Sri (Lakshmi) who closely embraced the whole of (his) body, and bearing on the palms (of his hands), the sankha and chakra in the form of auspicious marks.


Kalki has drawn heavily from such sources for his "Ponniyin selvan". The meikirtis start from sun.

I have not heard about Surya Vamsa for Rajaraja Chola. I did not learn Arulmozhi Varman like that. Kindly correct me if I am wrong, please.

Cheers!

 

[nachi naga]

whether race ,caste or rich vs poor etc as long as the spiritual path is forgotten,we will get into more lousier scenarios globally.americans are fun loving happy people just as indians are - period.survival of the fittest rest is all cosmetic gossip with great literary write ups.might is still right imho.

 

[prasad1]

sarang post#163
Great research, wonderful post. This should answer some of your nay Sayers too. Hats off sir.

 

[Nara]

....Please help me to understand this. The reason for default of sub prime mortgages, as I understand, is that the the borrowers could not cope up with the rise in interest rates and consequently the increase in EMIs. This produced a cascading effect and left the whole world in financial tatters.

Dear Narayan, I am sure you are aware that in matters such as these many opinions are possible. We have to sift through these and try to look for indisputable facts.

You are right about EMIs going up, which was a result of greedy bankers who steered unsuspecting borrowers into lucrative sub-prime loans with the promise of low initial teaser rates that were set to go up. But, that is not the reason for the entire financial market to come close to total collapse. This was done by bankers like Goldman Sachs creating financial products out of these mortgages, getting them rated AAA, and selling them to unsuspecting clients, all the while betting these products will become worthless in the future.

Could not have the FED or the US congress provided interest subvention and compensated the interest differential to the sub prime borrowers (so that the borrowers are not burdened with additional interest)? This would have helped the borrowers to keep their homes, would not have depressed the real estate market unduly, and brought a considerable relief to the whole of US. I also think the cost would have been much less than the 7.77 trillion pumped into the market.

Absolutely. People who object to this on the grounds of moral hazard have no objections to the bankers getting close to zero % loans hand over fist, 7.77 trillions of $ of it. Further, the Fed took over trillions of toxic mortgage backed "assets" from the hands of these bankers at face value. This is made possible because Goldman Sachs owns the treasury department irrespective of who is in the WH. People who talk about the "free enterprise" "capitalist" system have a lot to answer for. Where is the moral hazard for these people?

The result, it is predominantly poor neighborhoods with disproportionally black families that are devastated. When a house gets foreclosed the property value declines for the entire neighborhood starting a spiral down. This is a kind of structural racism that most people are blind to.

Instead, Paulson brought down every institution including Freddy Mac, Fanny May, AIG, GM Motors etc. and allowed the fat bankers to take home billions as bonuses.

The Department of Justice has not seen fit to seriously investigate any of these bankers, yet they spend millions investigating food stamp fraud and try to jail mothers cheating a couple of thousand $. Not that I like to condone food stamp fraud, but this another case of structural racism.

Got to go, giving an exam...

best regards ....

 

[happyhindu]

The Tiruvalangadu copper-plates of the sixth year of Rajendra- Chola I


(V. 4.) The eye of the three worlds was the Sun[2] from whom sprang the sprouts of all (families of) kings. From him (i.e., the Sun) was born by concentration (manana), Manu,[3] the first of kings whose name became (thus) conformable to (its) meaning.
(V. 5.) Great Ikshvaku[4] was born (as) his son ; of him, in great battles the enemies of gods (i.e., the danavas) were greatly afraid. The three worlds, though completely immersed I the ocean of his spotless fame, (still) enjoyed extreme delight.[5]

* * * * *

(V. 27.) The jewel of that prosperous family was king Sibi,


* * * * *

(V. 43.) In the family of that (king) of extensive glory was born the emperor kochchengannan.

* * * * *

(V. 61.) His son Arunmolivarma was born like another Murari (Vishnu) supporting on his two arms, long like the prasa (weapon), the glorious (goddess) Sri (Lakshmi) who closely embraced the whole of (his) body, and bearing on the palms (of his hands), the sankha and chakra in the form of auspicious marks.


Kalki has drawn heavily from such sources for his "Ponniyin selvan". The meikirtis start from sun.

Hello Sarang,

Already gave an insciption where Rajaraja Chola and Rajendra Chola are mentioned as Suryavamsa in post # 150. As mentioned in that post, from vedic and puranic sources, the cholas are sons of andhra vishwamitras. Not just cholas, but also pandyas and pulindas (purported to be pallavas by some historians).

So you need to produce an inscription where Rajaraja or any chola specifically mentioned they were "kshatriyas".

From this Thiruvalangadu plate details you posted, i hope you noticed that Ikshvakus are mentioned as enemies of Gods (devas), that is, they were Danavas.

Regards.

 

[Yamaka]

Sri Nara,

Please help me to understand this. The reason for default of sub prime mortgages, as I understand, is that the the borrowers could not cope up with the rise in interest rates and consequently the increase in EMIs. This produced a cascading effect and left the whole world in financial tatters.

Could not have the FED or the US congress provided interest subvention and compensated the interest differential to the sub prime borrowers (so that the borrowers are not burdened with additional interest)? This would have helped the borrowers to keep their homes, would not have depressed the real estate market unduly, and brought a considerable relief to the whole of US. I also think the cost would have been much less than the 7.77 trillion pumped into the market.

Instead, Paulson brought down every institution including Freddy Mac, Fanny May, AIG, GM Motors etc. and allowed the fat bankers to take home billions as bonuses.

Regards,

Dear Z:

Here is my two cents on this very important and controvertial matter.

1. Sub-Prime Mortgages were one of the many reasons that the Financial Tsunami hit the US in Sep 2008, and took down the world economy. On this sub-category, BOTH the borrowers and the lenders defrauded the entire system. This fraud was notified to the Banks' (like Citi, B of A, Citywide etc.) in time, but the CEOs didn't want to end the Party too soon!

2. US Congress passed the U$870 billions to Troubled Asset Recovery Program very quickly and ordered the Treasury to act immediately.. Alas Hank Paulson did not spend the money on TARP instead he wanted to invest the bulk of the money on Wall Street Banks, including AIG... this was a major mistake.

He claims that the nature of the Derivatives (Mortgage backed bonds) is so complex legally that he could not see a easy way to deal with them on time... he wanted to save the defaulting banks at all costs (he believed that the Banks are the Necessary Evil or the heart & vascular system of the Economic Body; hence must be declogged and protected ASAP). I agree with him partially.

The TARP in an economic sense was a good program, made money to the Treasury.... but the problems of housing woes remained to this date._

3. The GSEs (Freddy and Fanny) are very important institutions to support housing in the US, w/o which the housing will collapse. I will support Mending this GSEs and not Ending them.

4. A few months ago, Federal Housing Financing Authority said that they are going to sue 27 major Banks for possible fraud on this Mortgage Backed Bonds and the way it was sold to the GSEs.

We have to wait and watch what's going to come out of it...

Granted, we were all duped by the Wall Street and the CEOs there!

Very sad that the Regulatory Frame work was non-existent in W Bush's Presidency... Wait, as my son asks, how could you have a Regulatory Structure manned by C and B Students from Universities when the Wall Street is run by A students, anyway?

Cheers.

 

[happyhindu]

dear Mr. Raghy,

This is enough to prove that you are above castes and creeds and are

a humane human who will fight for equality and justice! :clap2:

I agree about Raghy, Mrs.VR.

My post to you was a plea, to make you see that no one is hated; and instead, people seek acceptance. It was nothing to do with reservations. From my post it is apparent that what is sought is upanayanams, as kshatriyas and vaishyas; and only after a child shows inclination and capacity for detailed stuff, he can go on to master them and become a brahman.

Regards.

 

[prasad1]

The housing crisis was created long ago, well before the sub prime debacle. American housing price was artificially increased with the help of unlicensed, and corrupt appraisers. The appraiser would get the purchase contract and and the loan amount from the bank or mortgage broker. Them the appraiser would inflate the house price to make the loan. The appraiser used to be hired, by the banker, so their was pressure on the appraiser to match the purchase price to appraised price. This trend was noted by Tom Friedman back in 2004. So every 2 years you could borrow more on the house and cash out the difference.

So the housing bubble was being built well before the meltdown. When the housing market collapsed, people were left with upside down mortgage. The loan balance of the mortgage exceeded the market value of the home. With that condition the borrower was not able to refinance, even if they had a job. And lot of people lost their job, that exasperated the situation.
Nara and Yamak are right in their analysis.

 

[Nara]

Hello ALL: Mumia, Police, Race and Justice in the US

Today, I heard that Mumia Abu-Jamal is NOT going to the gallows!

Mumia Abu-Jamal's case is emblematic of the structural racism that is just under the surface in the U.S. At the time Mumia was convicted he had no prior record of any criminality and the entire case against him was fabricated by policemen who were later discredited for corruption in other cases. But he got the death penalty and spent 30 years in death row, 23 hours a day in solitary confinement. In the last 30 years he was forbidden from having any physical contact with anybody who cared for him, not even a handshake.

Now his life is spared, but he is going to have to spend the rest of his life in prison. All because he was a member of Black Panthers a radical group opposed to the established power structure. In a different time he would have been lynched from the nearest tree, but in this day and age, it takes police to fabricate evidence and put him away in prison from which he can only get out on a gurney.

The criminal justice system of the U.S. is certainly skewed against black youngsters, and that is putting it mild, very mild.

Cheers!

 

[kunjuppu]

i think mumia was at the wrong place at the wrong time in the wrong period.

many of the erstwhile black panthers, over time, changed, became part of mainstream society, some still maintaining radicalism and others eschewing it altogether.

i think it may have been huey newton or bobby seale, who when they visited algeria, their then paymaster, witnessed so much racial taunts and insults, nothing like what they had experienced even in the usa, they came chastened.

the party faded, because with the prosperity of the 70s, the mainstream found jobs, families and mortgages, all not conducive to revolutionary activities.

mumia however was far away from california, where he would never have been reduced to the position of framed on so flimsy an evidence. the case has radicalized to such an extent, that not even the president of the usa can give him a pardon.

too bad. too sad.

 

[KRS]

Dear Professor Nara Ji,

You have said

Mumia Abu-Jamal's case is emblematic of the structural racism that is just under the surface in the U.S. At the time Mumia was convicted he had no prior record of any criminality and the entire case against him was fabricated by policemen who were later discredited for corruption in other cases.

This is astonishing on the face of the facts. Appeals have been made and every time the courts, including the Supreme Court has affirmed the verdict and the consequent sentencing.

The guy had a bullet from the cop's gun. The bullets in the cop's body matched the gun that was nearby and the guy was wearing a holster.

How do you think this guy got shot? You think the traffic cop shot him first? This does not make sense. Only reason people are coming to his defense because of death penalty and he has talent in writing.

I respectfully disagree with you on this case being an example of 'structural' racism in the USA. I agree there is such a problem, but this case does not highlight it.

By the way, I don't understand why no one is talking about the black on black crime. Today's environment is such that, this topic is taboo. I do not think the policies designed to help that community since the sixties have yielded any meaningful improvements to the poor from that community. The community is being led by leaders who in general have a stake to keep them poor. When people like Bing Cosby, speak up, he is shouted down.

Regards,
KRS

 

[Raghy]

dear Mr. Raghy,

This is enough to prove that you are above castes and creeds and are

a humane human who will fight for equality and justice! :clap2:

Dear Sowbagyavathy Visalakshi Ramani, Greetings.

Thank you for your kind words. I shall strive harder to earn such nice compliments. You are too kind to praise me.

Cheers!

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Dear Mr. Raghy,

I know how much strength one needs to remain calm and unruffled during a crisis and also when assaulted physically or verbally.

Your calmness shows your strength though it might be interpreted as a weakness by some people.

Most people believe that An eye for eye and A tooth for a tooth is the RIGHT motto of life.

I wish the word has more of your type (strong, silent and SENSITIVE) men than what it has now.

With warm regards,
Visalakshi Ramani.

Dear Sowbagyavathy Visalakshi Ramani, Greetings.

Thank you for your kind words. I shall strive harder to earn such nice compliments. You are too kind to praise me.

Cheers!