Reincarnation - Real or A Myth?

[Nara]

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'Soul of inanimate things' is indeed a novel concept - to me, at least!

Dear CLN, VA has long asserted anything with a form and a name has a jeeva in it. I think there is a story in Bhagavatam that a pot caught hold of child Krishna's hand and won't let go until he was given moksham or something like that. So, this not a novel concept for VA.

When you break your tea cup the jeeva residing in that tea cup leaves it, just the same way when a human dies the jeeva leaves that body, one body has the life force and other organs to be able to move about and the other lacks these faculties and hence can't move about. This is part of VA doctrine.

Needless to say I don't buy it, I don't even buy the notion that there is a jeeva, different from the body.

Cheers!

 

[renuka]

Dear CLN, VA has long asserted anything with a form and a name has a jeeva in it. I think there is a story in Bhagavatam that a pot caught hold of child Krishna's hand and won't let go until he was given moksham or something like that. So, this not a novel concept for VA.

When you break your tea cup the jeeva residing in that tea cup leaves it, just the same way when a human dies the jeeva leaves that body, one body has the life force and other organs to be able to move about and the other lacks these faculties and hence can't move about. This is part of VA doctrine.

Needless to say I don't buy it, I don't even buy the notion that there is a jeeva, different from the body.

Cheers!

Dear Nara anna,

If there is no Jeeva than I should be able to make someone rise from the dead isn't it?
See if we humans are nothing but some mechanism made up of some conglomerate of cells than we should be able to repair/overhaul the dead and jump start them and make them running again?

As far as I am concern I have never been able to repair a dead man after I sign off his death certificate.

 

[CLN]

Dear CLN, VA has long asserted anything with a form and a name has a jeeva in it. I think there is a story in Bhagavatam that a pot caught hold of child Krishna's hand and won't let go until he was given moksham or something like that. So, this not a novel concept for VA.

When you break your tea cup the jeeva residing in that tea cup leaves it, just the same way when a human dies the jeeva leaves that body, one body has the life force and other organs to be able to move about and the other lacks these faculties and hence can't move about. This is part of VA doctrine.

Needless to say I don't buy it, I don't even buy the notion that there is a jeeva, different from the body.

Cheers!

Dear Shri Nara,

I still have one doubt. When a human dies the soul leaves all right. But then the corpse IS still an inanimate object, just like Krishna's pot or my coffee-cup. If a pot and a cup can have souls, why not the corpse? If it has a soul, what is the quality difference between the soul of the corpse and the soul that resided in it before the human's death? Visualizing a soul for a corpse is, no doubt, abhorrent, but is there really any difference between the cup and the corpse?

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Nara anna,

If there is no Jeeva than I should be able to make someone rise from the dead isn't it?
See if we humans are nothing but some mechanism made up of some conglomerate of cells than we should be able to repair/overhaul the dead and jump start them and make them running again?

As far as I am concern I have never been able to repair a dead man after I sign off his death certificate.

Deare Renuka,

May be Medical Scientific advancements are still lacking the skills to repair/overhaul the dead and jump start them and make them running again.

If in future we humans could achieve and go further to even incorporate additional skills and qualities in repaired body, we would be able to make this world religion free. And have one common religion called "Humanism".

 

[renuka]

Dear Shri Nara,

I still have one doubt. When a human dies the soul leaves all right. But then the corpse IS still an inanimate object, just like Krishna's pot or my coffee-cup. If a pot and a cup can have souls, why not the corpse? If it has a soul, what is the quality difference between the soul of the corpse and the soul that resided in it before the human's death? Visualizing a soul for a corpse is, no doubt, abhorrent, but is there really any difference between the cup and the corpse?

Dear CLN Ji,

I have read the same question before somewhere in a website..there was a good explanation given to the question that even a corpse does have Atma.I will try to look for the link.

A soul is defined as Atma +Subtle body complex and Atma is all pervading and present even in inanimate and animate objects.When the Atma is encased in a subtle body and inhabits a physical body its called Jeeva and we say the physical body is alive.

Bear with me..I am looking for that link..

 

[CLN]

RK: Bear with me..I am looking for that link

Dear Renuka ji,

That will really be wonderful! Please do find the link and post it.

 

[renuka]

Ok here it is..its taken from Sathya Sai Baba website.
Please dont think I am promoting Baba here but the article is good.

Its a big article..you scroll to page 17 till 20.The Question you asked is there.

 

[Nara]

....I still have one doubt. When a human dies the soul leaves all right. But then the corpse IS still an inanimate object, just like Krishna's pot or my coffee-cup. If a pot and a cup can have souls, why not the corpse?

Dear CLN sir, I was somewhat imprecise in my earlier posting. For VAs when something gets made that has a name and a form, a jeeva will take residence in it. When it no longer exists in that form or can no longer function as intended, the jeeva will leave. When a body dies, the corpse will soon deteriorate and no longer exist as a body. Similarly, when a chair gets broken it is no longer a chair and the jeeva will leave.

Remember, I don't believe any of this stuff, I am just giving you the explanation given by VA advocates.

Cheers!

 

[sravna]

Shri CLN,
The word soul is used more in connection with the humans. But think of soul as the holistic energy of an entity so that you can visualize how inanimate objects can also possess soul. As long as something is bonded there is that holistic and unifying energy.

When an thing is broken that unifying energy is gone just a dead body doesn't have a soul. The broken things still possess unifying energy but one that is lower. Also distinction should be made between artificially made things and naturally occurring things. Natural bonding is more effective in producing a high unifying energy because of the natural affinities between the bonding things.

In the case of the corpse, I would think the unifying energy of the whole body representing soul is gone.but there would be still unifying energies of the parts of the body

.

 

[C RAVI]

Ok here it is..its taken from Sathya Sai Baba website.
Please dont think I am promoting Baba here but the article is good.

Its a big article..you scroll to page 17 till 20.The Question you asked is there.

Dear Renuka,

What a lovely, mesmerizing article!!

I dont have time right now to go through all the pages. As you have suggested, I read through page 17 to 20 and could get to learn a lot in details..


Thank you so much for sharing this with all of us here..


Between pages 17-20, I found this particular statement as the most interesting and subtle -

"You are born so that you may not be born again; you die so that you may not die again!"

 

[Nara]

...If there is no Jeeva than I should be able to make someone rise from the dead isn't it?

Renu, no, why should that be?

See if we humans are nothing but some mechanism made up of some conglomerate of cells than we should be able to repair/overhaul the dead and jump start them and make them running again?

First, we see so many organ transplants these days. A few years ago these patients would have died.

We now have technology that can be grown using stem cells, here is an example of human ear on the back of a mouse. With advancing technology some predict human life span will increase to several hundred years, even several thousand years.

We already have technology to overhaul human body parts as long as the human is alive. The reason we are not able to overhaul a dead person is because we don't know how, yet -- not because there is a soul in the body.

Cheers!

 

[biswa]

See if we humans are nothing but some mechanism made up of some conglomerate of cells than we should be able to repair/overhaul the dead and jump start them and make them running again?

As far as I am concern I have never been able to repair a dead man after I sign off his death certificate.

Now, I have to take on the doctor in her home ground here. Devilling into the details, don't we all talk about organ donation all the time? Isn't it true that a dead person's cornea, heart, liver, pancreas may live again if properly transplanted? Similarly, isn't it true that the majority of a brain-dead person's cells are alive?

I feel that the line between life and death is very fine nowadays, relying on an interpretation of a brain's electrical activity. That said I have never signed anyone's death certificate, so I still bow to the expert. ::sad:

 

[renuka]

Now, I have to take on the doctor in her home ground here. Devilling into the details, don't we all talk about organ donation all the time? Isn't it true that a dead person's cornea, heart, liver, pancreas may live again if properly transplanted? Similarly, isn't it true that the majority of a brain-dead person's cells are alive?

I feel that the line between life and death is very fine nowadays, relying on an interpretation of a brain's electrical activity. That said I have never signed anyone's death certificate, so I still bow to the expert. ::sad:

Yes Biswa,Organs can be harvested and transplanted thats no doubt about that.
Organs are like spare parts of a car that can be used even in other cars.
Thats all..but to activate the organs suitable environment is needed and cell cultures can be done even outside the human body.
Thats no suprise cos the All Pervading Atma will activate the cells if suitable environment for cellular activity is maintained.

 

[biswa]

Thats all..but to activate the organs suitable environment is needed and cell cultures can be done even outside the human body.
Thats no suprise cos the All Pervading Atma will activate the cells if suitable environment for cellular activity is maintained.

Yes, the most amazing thing here is that a human being can be frozen (in the form of a 5 celled embryo) upto 5 years. And that embryo can develop into a healthy, happy child. Nothing short of amazing. Makes you want to believe in God. Or at least in the reproductive endocrinologist who is playing God.

 

[biswa]

something that i wish to share. my own personal experience.

the very first time i read about the nazi holocaust - ie the nazi mass killing of the european jews, i felt, that i knew about it already.

then, i read a story, where a bunch of jews, were being transported in a lorry, and one of them stood up, and saw premonition of the gas chambers where the jews were gassed and then cremated. the lorry stopped and some prisoners escaped.

that is where my memory fails me - was i killed while trying to escape or did i make the escape, because some post war destroyed german cities were very familiar. i knew that i did not get gassed.

was it true. or a product of my (rather) vivid wishful imagination?

same thing.. i have felt that i have participated as a passive hindu, in the first muslim invasion (ghazni) against prithvi raj chauhan

This is rather intriguing, Mr K. Without belittling your experience at all, is it possible that your reading may have subconsciously inserted these vivid memories? Do you think some sort of exercise (seance?) would help in reviving these? However if I am not mistaken Mr. Chauhan fought against Ghori, not Ghazni.

 

[Brahin]

If there is no reincarnation all of us should be same like a bunch of crash test dummies.

I have idea, we can reproduce all discussions here and write a book "Reincarnation for Dummies"

 

[Brahin]

We now have technology that can be grown using stem cells, here is an example of human ear on the back of a mouse. With advancing technology some predict human life span will increase to several hundred years, even several thousand years.

What ear at the back of mouse? Thats nothing.
Indra had 1000 phallus all over his body and later it became 1000 eyes.
What can beat that!!!
See technology was so advanced then.

 

[renuka]

Dear Ravi,

You know I am a bit confused..You believe there is reincarnation or not?
Cos some post you write supporting it but some post you sound you are not really for it.
So which side of the debate are you on?

 

[kunjuppu]

This is rather intriguing, Mr K. Without belittling your experience at all, is it possible that your reading may have subconsciously inserted these vivid memories? Do you think some sort of exercise (seance?) would help in reviving these? However if I am not mistaken Mr. Chauhan fought against Ghori, not Ghazni.

biswa,

anything is possible.

my memories of childhood are very vivid.

many a time, when i read or hear something, i have a feeling of deja vu. who knows, whether they happened in this life, or the previous ones?