Reservation for Brahmins

[Ganamukundhapriya]

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The Brahmin association today is just Brahmin's Chamber of Commerce. The business people act only for the betterment of their business. In 1980 - 84 the Brahmins of Tamilnadu were well united and the grass root level level functionaries to top were are all non-business people with good social connections. It is because the community had a definite agenda for securing educational opportunities then. The force dared to start an Engineering College with the blessing of Tamilnadu Brahmin Association in Vellore and defended its legal right to do so in Supreme Court. The favorable verdict in Supreme Court paved way for Privatization of higher education and hence the Brahmin's in fact achieved their agenda!!!

The problem now is that the Brahmins do not know as to what they want. Yes... they do not have any grievance against the government even though nothing comes their way in real life.

I request the elite in the community to firm up opinion on DEMANDING RESERVATION FOR BRAHMINS. This definitely will be a powerful agenda to unite Brahmins again. Moreover it will also bring in advantages.

Why not? Throughout history Brahmins were neither rulers nor business people. There is no evidence that they are all educated except for the fact that they all have been trained in the skill of chanting Vedas. But that is no education in today's standard. The rulers and business people of yester years (Kshathriyas and Vaisyas) had better education on the intricacies of Vedas than the Brahmins and those communities enjoy reservations now!!! Why not the Brahmins?????

In a way the Brahmins and Sudras are alike in many ways. They are both faithful to their masters like a dog but bark at each other again like a dog barking at another dog. The leaders of Dravidian movement fed one dog as pet while chose to hit another dog as mongrel. But Constitution of India will not allow such discrimination. We once won our case in Supreme Court. We will win this also. We only have to put an effort.

 

[RKB]

This demand by Brahmins will be the right anti dote for the evil of reservation. Therefore those who feel that reservation is not the solution should also vote for reservation for Brahmins.

 

[aramakrishnan1]

Reservation in higher education and government jobs - I presume that you meant this one. The Brahmins shouldn't ask any reservation as long as there is open, unreserved quota. Only those who qualify by merit should enter higher education and govt. jobs (only applicable for Brahmins). Once highly educated, Brahmins should serve the society and spread their knowledge to as much people as they can. Our scriptures teach us to live the most simple life and spread knowledge and we should live by them. If Brahmins give up living as per Shastras, then it will be end of Sanatana Dharma. Nowadays, Brahmins are mostly sticking to material pleasure and their addiction to Mann, Maadhu and Ponn is growing.

 

[RKB]

The demand can be for even representation in Parliamentary bodies. The point is that the Brahmins now have merit for demanding reservation. Brahmins also should accept reservation as merit for bulk of the Brahmins are in a deplorable condition and the affluent minority among the Brahmins talk the way like aramakrishnan1 for they have realized that it helps their interest. Spreading knowledge is not Brahmins prerogative ever and simplicity has not been advocated only for Brahmins in the scriptures. Bulk of the affluent Brahmins have migrated away from India and they also have migrated far away from our traditions. It is possible for them to show off of adherence to multiple culture and traditions. But bulk of the Brahmins here are facing social discrimination.

This idea of Reservation for Brahmin has been intended to uplift social status and acceptability of Brahmins in India. Sanathana Dharma advocated reservation for Brahmins in sactum sanctorium of all Hindu temples. Why not extend the same to all other things?

 

[aramakrishnan1]

I am practical

Dear RKB,
I I do not belong to the affluent minority as mentioned. The Tamizh society is made to beleive that Caste system was instituted by Brahmins and the Brahmins are responsible for all the ills of the society. Even though there is not an iota of truth in such allegations, the powerful strata of the Tamizh society keeps reiterating these false allegations. I am reading many newspapers and bloggers who are very skilllful in propogating the wrong message. Take an example - The Naam Tamizhar iyakkam spear headed by Seeman is creating hatred against Brahmins by all means and supported by the DK and DMK etc. My point is we have to manage to live under these constraints. If the Brahmins agitate for reservation, the reservation will never be given, but we will end up in a worser situation than now. There are practical difficulties in obtaining reservation. Instead of that, if affluent Brahmins support the struggling ones (and others too) in way of spreading edcuation and skills (Which is our duty as per Shastras), then it would be possible to sustain our living. We are branded as "intellectually superior" and hence we can never get reservation. If we attempt to elliminate caste based reservation and instead make reservations based on economical basis, then the whole society including Brahmins would be benefited.

 

[nachi naga]

re

Dear RKB,
I I do not belong to the affluent minority as mentioned. The Tamizh society is made to beleive that Caste system was instituted by Brahmins and the Brahmins are responsible for all the ills of the society. Even though there is not an iota of truth in such allegations, the powerful strata of the Tamizh society keeps reiterating these false allegations. I am reading many newspapers and bloggers who are very skilllful in propogating the wrong message. Take an example - The Naam Tamizhar iyakkam spear headed by Seeman is creating hatred against Brahmins by all means and supported by the DK and DMK etc. My point is we have to manage to live under these constraints. If the Brahmins agitate for reservation, the reservation will never be given, but we will end up in a worser situation than now. There are practical difficulties in obtaining reservation. Instead of that, if affluent Brahmins support the struggling ones (and others too) in way of spreading edcuation and skills (Which is our duty as per Shastras), then it would be possible to sustain our living. We are branded as "intellectually superior" and hence we can never get reservation. If we attempt to elliminate caste based reservation and instead make reservations based on economical basis, then the whole society including Brahmins would be benefited.

i as a tambrahm do very little donation,as first charity begins at home.when i myself am in debt,what i can worry about fellow tam brahms?

why shud rich tambrahm donate their hard earned money to poor tambrahms.does not make any sense to me.

evry tambrahm shud work harder to be independent and stand on their feets,but community help is always welcome,like educating,like employment...etc.giving free money is not acceptable,but a loan with very very low rate of interest is acceptable.

nachi naga.

 

[aramakrishnan1]

Brahmins migration

Bulk of the affluent Brahmins have migrated away from India and they also have migrated far away from our traditions. QUOTE]
Dear RKB,
You have mentioned that affluent Brahmins migrated away from India and it is true partially. Many have gone against their will to make a living. It is equally difficult for many Brahmins outside India to sustain their living in alien conditions. With our restrictions on food habits, it is never easy to live outside India.
If the present situation turns better (only a miracle could do) and if Brahmins are respected in the Tamizh society, then this social discrimination would be gone for ever. If any poiltical party supports the issue of reservations for Brahmins, then they cannot win elections due to the present situation. However, it is possible to have an alliance between the so called Dalits and the Brahmins using platform such as BSP and obtain reservation. But you will be at the mercy of the BSP leadership to obtain such favour and no longer can aspire for self-respect.

 

[Ganamukundhapriya]

We should not be pessimistic. What I said is true. We have won in Supreme Court once to earn for India Inc privatization of education. The same Supreme court now permits reservation for BC, OBC etc. The Brahmin Association has to only approach Supreme Court now to grant the status of BC or OBC to Brahmins. The Supreme Court cannot deny this for Brahmins qualify for it by all means. We do not require support from any political bodies for it. They all will sure implead themselves in our case to say that we are 'intellectuals', 'elites' etc. But they do not have anything to substantiate on it. The fact is that Brahmins were never a ruling clan or affluent clan in the entire known history. It is only that Brahmins try to portray themselves that way and not anything else.

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

In every section of society, there are deprived persons. Other than Brahmins also there are really needy persons, who are out of purview of the reservation. For reasons of numbers -- and lack of “en bloc” voting, where they are in some numbers--, Brahmins will not be able to get anything from the government ,or politicians with vested interest.
This reality is to be understood. So the best practical way for Brahmins is to unite among themselves under a common banner and common umbrella, and do whatever they can to help among themselves. Start educational institutions, hospitals, SSI and trade ventures, Limited companies, and lot . This will give avenues of employment for the brahmin members. We should wholeheartedly support other groups who are out of reservation facility, and join the in their efforts, in securing rights from govt.

The effective propaganda should be that, we are not depriving anybody of their facilities,, but seeking that poor among us and similar others need to get sufficient and sure opportunities in jobs including free or concession in education .we should not be deprived promotion just because of the reservation norms.

Only that a person is rich should not be a reason to hate him or refuse help from him. There are many genuine rich NRI Brahmins sincerely interested in helping those back in native place.They feel that it is their duty to do whatever possible to help the needy at home, so that they will not face the difficulties they faced earlier.The community needs rich businessmen also , for starting and sustaining many programmes and projects for the welfare of the community members.

But just one or two cannot do much.We need a conduit organization, platform which can pool and channelise the help received. Each village/town may/should have ground level forum.There should be district/state/apex level forum. Ach one can contribute as per his ability, by body,mind ,money land and kind.
Till we swell in numbers and form real cluster in strength, only small level actions only to be contemplated.
Marriage meets are one such points of meeting, and these can be used for propagating need for unity,and membership can be registered.

To start, a sense and spirit of unity should be there in every commuity member’s mind..

United we stand: Divided (what more to divide) we fall

Greetings.

 

[ksrks1996]

The Brahmin association today is just Brahmin's Chamber of Commerce. The business people act only for the betterment of their business. In 1980 - 84 the Brahmins of Tamilnadu were well united and the grass root level level functionaries to top were are all non-business people with good social connections. It is because the community had a definite agenda for securing educational opportunities then. The force dared to start an Engineering College with the blessing of Tamilnadu Brahmin Association in Vellore and defended its legal right to do so in Supreme Court. The favorable verdict in Supreme Court paved way for Privatization of higher education and hence the Brahmin's in fact achieved their agenda!!!

The problem now is that the Brahmins do not know as to what they want. Yes... they do not have any grievance against the government even though nothing comes their way in real life.

I request the elite in the community to firm up opinion on DEMANDING RESERVATION FOR BRAHMINS. This definitely will be a powerful agenda to unite Brahmins again. Moreover it will also bring in advantages.

Why not? Throughout history Brahmins were neither rulers nor business people. There is no evidence that they are all educated except for the fact that they all have been trained in the skill of chanting Vedas. But that is no education in today's standard. The rulers and business people of yester years (Kshathriyas and Vaisyas) had better education on the intricacies of Vedas than the Brahmins and those communities enjoy reservations now!!! Why not the Brahmins?????

In a way the Brahmins and Sudras are alike in many ways. They are both faithful to their masters like a dog but bark at each other again like a dog barking at another dog. The leaders of Dravidian movement fed one dog as pet while chose to hit another dog as mongrel. But Constitution of India will not allow such discrimination. We once won our case in Supreme Court. We will win this also. We only have to put an effort.

The economic conditions of brahmins in India is detoriating and so many people are starving. When we are starving 'How can we expect our eliteness'. Even our own brahmin community (wealthy brahmins) do not dared to pay amount to sastrigals and cooks according to present inflation. Hence sastrigals and cook are forced to do sins like more brahmanarthams in one day, making them more poppies. If brahmins get economic status by way of reservation, they can definitly develop downtrodden brahmins.

 

[Ganamukundhapriya]

Surya Kasyapji,

It was difficult to start Private Ventures before 1990s. It was the Brahmin lobby, supported by various rulings in the Supreme Court, that has pressurized our then PM Narasimha Rao (or he cashed in on the opportunity for his community) to permit private ventures in education, health care etc. Including Sankara madam, many started their own ventures. But are they serving Brahmins now? The answer is big NO. It is foolish to believe people who are busy with their self serving ventures. This includes all the NRIs. Their feeling for community will surface only briefly when they are here to perform marriage or some other function. The alternative is to unite those
who are deprived and they should now become the face of the rejuvenated Brahmin Association. This will automatically ensure the needed unity.

 

[RVR]

Reservation based on economic criteria is most welcome.

A secular country should not accept caste and religion as the basis for reservation but should adopt economic criteria as the base.

Those who move out of poverty are automatically eliminated from claiming the benefit once this criteria is adopted.

All the best

 

[RKB]

Let us be practical

RVRji...There is no use in talking against caste based reservation in India now. Also India will be having the best secular credentials than any other countries of this world now. One has to be a roman in Rome. Brahmins should demand for caste based reservation now.

aramakrishnan1 sir.. you sound like affluent in one posting and sound a pauper in another. Just tell clearly whether you want reservation or not.

 

[adiyean]

Dear friends,
I would like to once again post my old posting (No:69 on the thread " Brahmins and the Tamil Society") in this thread.
I have attached a copy of the text down .
*****************************************
A survey did in some schools that time ( about 25 years back), revealed that
mostly Brahmins formed the General category (99.9%) and others in BC, MBC, SC , ST etc.
*******************************************



02-04-2008, 06:27 PM
adiyean

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Join Date: Jul 2007
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Dear friends,
I feel the best way to re include Brahmins in the Present Tamil Society - is to include Brahmins also in the BC/MBC list. Genuinely "Sapindi Brahmins" are outcasts, need to be given some privilages including reservations etc. The move was tried some 20 years back but failed due to various reasons. Now it can be tried again as it may help the needy and poor young brahmins to get privilages like other NB forward communities. Also this will suit the hypocritic leaders of the present day. Follow the foot steps of others.
The effect will be doubled if we create the awareness (and also support continously by all means either directly or indirectly) among the real Schedule Caste & Tribe people(especially from villages and backward areas) that how they are actually sidelined by the creamy layer reserved categories (mostly from the so called BC & MBC groups).This will work certainly in the long run.

 

[aramakrishnan1]

I reiterate my position that Brahmins should not demand reservation as long as 31 % open quota is available (69% already reserved in TN). Basic primary education upto +2 doesn't need any reservation and if we are talking about IIT/IIM/BE/MBBS/CA or such higher education resulting in lucrative earning, Brahmins should attain them by merit. Apart from these courses, there are lot of options which are not pursued by many where reservations are not required.
I have recently (even though too late) read Kanchi MahaPeriyava's call to Brahmins to perform their duty as per Shastras, i.e.learning and chanting Vedas. After realising that I did not do my duty and my parents did not guide me in the correct way, I felt very bad. Instead of seeking reservation for heigher education in pursuit of lucrative earning, the Brahmins should try to live as per Shastras. I will work in this direction in my personal life too.
Something about me, I am not a regular graduate, not so brilliant to qualify in merit for proffessional courses (in 1988) and neither had money to pursue them. Still I have managed to have decent living after more than 16 years of hard work. Even if there would have been reservations, I could not have pursued proffessional courses due to lack of finance.

 

[Harini]

The question should be about the action plan now.

1. How can this thread be popularized?
2. How do we associate ourself?
3. Can someone discuss this idea with the Tamilnadu Brahmin Association?
4. What is going to be our resource?
5. What action away from blog?

 

[RKB]

aramakrishnan1 sir. I think that you should not disturb those who wish to associate among themselves for the cause of Reservation. We appreciate your endeavor and we pray that Cho. Ramaswamy reaches you through this thread for his Jaya TV serial. Please understand us. We all long to be sincere Brahmins and we feel that Reservation will help us. Our Kudos to whatever you have managed to achieve in your life. You seem to be contended, if not affluent. We are also contended for the potential we have to achieve Reservation.

Harini madam, If only someone like to assemble in a place in Mylapore, I welcome you all to my place. We can have discussion over best filter coffee. I have posted this thread to [email protected] and let us see as to what their response is!

 

[aramakrishnan1]

I will support the decision of the majority irrespective of my line of thoughts and will not stand in the way definitely. I appreciate this step, as it has the potential to bring unity among the community.

 

[ksrks1996]

Surya Kasyapji,

It was difficult to start Private Ventures before 1990s. It was the Brahmin lobby, supported by various rulings in the Supreme Court, that has pressurized our then PM Narasimha Rao (or he cashed in on the opportunity for his community) to permit private ventures in education, health care etc. Including Sankara madam, many started their own ventures. But are they serving Brahmins now? The answer is big NO. It is foolish to believe people who are busy with their self serving ventures. This includes all the NRIs. Their feeling for community will surface only briefly when they are here to perform marriage or some other function. The alternative is to unite those
who are deprived and they should now become the face of the rejuvenated Brahmin Association. This will automatically ensure the needed unity.

Yes I do agree that Brahmin Community only initated private venture in education. Why it took such a step through the Supreme Court. Since the Govt of Tamil Nadu introduced reservation of 69% and also some considerable portion of 31% went to elite in the backword class community for those who secured 90% and above. No brahmin with 95% marks got seat in Medical and Engineering colleges despite being outstanding. Hence our people wanted to help such outstanding students to practice medicine and other engineering studies. So we should not find fault in the motive. Private institutions like SASTRA, Sankara Madam are doing service by accommodating brahmin students. But we should not ask for fee concession as they don't get any subsidy from the Govt. If there is reservation for economically backward brahmin students, our brahmin students will not face financial burden.

 

[ksrks1996]

I reiterate my position that Brahmins should not demand reservation as long as 31 % open quota is available (69% already reserved in TN). Basic primary education upto +2 doesn't need any reservation and if we are talking about IIT/IIM/BE/MBBS/CA or such higher education resulting in lucrative earning, Brahmins should attain them by merit. Apart from these courses, there are lot of options which are not pursued by many where reservations are not required.
I have recently (even though too late) read Kanchi MahaPeriyava's call to Brahmins to perform their duty as per Shastras, i.e.learning and chanting Vedas. After realising that I did not do my duty and my parents did not guide me in the correct way, I felt very bad. Instead of seeking reservation for heigher education in pursuit of lucrative earning, the Brahmins should try to live as per Shastras. I will work in this direction in my personal life too.
Something about me, I am not a regular graduate, not so brilliant to qualify in merit for proffessional courses (in 1988) and neither had money to pursue them. Still I have managed to have decent living after more than 16 years of hard work. Even if there would have been reservations, I could not have pursued proffessional courses due to lack of finance.

I appreciate your hard work and your present position and proud of you. I now think how you would have, if you are given an oppurtunity to pursue engineering. Why you could not do despite being intelligent. A person with below average age is enjoying all benefits due to reservation. Why can't my brahmin friend or his sons and daughters.

 

[RVR]

I reiterate my position that Brahmins should not demand reservation as long as 31 % open quota is available (69% already reserved in TN). Basic primary education upto +2 doesn't need any reservation and if we are talking about IIT/IIM/BE/MBBS/CA or such higher education resulting in lucrative earning, Brahmins should attain them by merit. Apart from these courses, there are lot of options which are not pursued by many where reservations are not required.
I have recently (even though too late) read Kanchi MahaPeriyava's call to Brahmins to perform their duty as per Shastras, i.e.learning and chanting Vedas. After realising that I did not do my duty and my parents did not guide me in the correct way, I felt very bad. Instead of seeking reservation for heigher education in pursuit of lucrative earning, the Brahmins should try to live as per Shastras. I will work in this direction in my personal life too.
Something about me, I am not a regular graduate, not so brilliant to qualify in merit for proffessional courses (in 1988) and neither had money to pursue them. Still I have managed to have decent living after more than 16 years of hard work. Even if there would have been reservations, I could not have pursued proffessional courses due to lack of finance.

Personally I have come across lot of boys not having enough money to pursue higher education

Three year arts/science/commerce course is highly cost effective as compared to engineering. IT companies/banks/insurance and others recruit those who pass out from such colleges.

Still polytechnic is attractive proposition for 10 passed students. One of my neighboring boy completed Diploma in Electronics Engineering and is doing extremely well in a multinational company in gulf.

Our community boys and girls have practically stopped going for medical. Engineering education is no problem since plenty of colleges are there.

Instead of fighting with Government, I wish we should guide our boys with appropriate courses based on their capability. Up to Rs.4 lakhs bank loans are available without any collatoral security and we can pursue that also in case of necessity.

All the best

 

[RKB]

Kanchi University do not discriminate among communities or Caste and SASTRA is a pure business house. There is no necessity to hate these people for business people behave only in business like manner. But it is bad to spread message that they have an agenda for Brahmins or Brahminic tradition when they do not have one. The corporate houses run by Brahmins will definitely have good number of the family members and native people of the promoter supported by their venture. But none has so far dared to proclaim support for the discriminated Brahmin community fearing consequential repression. The only people who don't have to fear are those who are without any hope for they do not have anything to loose. They should raise their voice to demand Reservation.

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

Personally I have come across lot of boys not having enough money to pursue higher education

Three year arts/science/commerce course is highly cost effective as compared to engineering. IT companies/banks/insurance and others recruit those who pass out from such colleges.

All the best

Sri RVR ji,

My apologies , for scribbling a few things personal . But, the ,I thought it may give a little credence to many posts here, and the sincere feelings of genuine members.

After completing my 10 th,(of course many years ago), I was totally directionless, as I was doubtful of my college entry due to financial difficulties. A firstclass first,school topper, I felt dejected on the prospects. But my father gave me courage and told me that we will find a way.Mother started praying to various gods.

I studied in a govt school, so no fee expenses.But colleges were charging fees.Govt colleges were out of bound, as they few and subject to reservations and other quota guidelines.

Some well wishers suggested learning Sanskrit, as there will be help from Sankara Mutt and some other places. With dreams of an engineering degree,I left it to fate.

That was not a time when education loans were available .

But God came in the guise of a friend of my father( thanksgiving for an earlier help from my father).He was working in a college office.He encouraged us to apply in the nearest college , and seeing my marks assured that I will get admission on merit. It happened so.He guided me to apply for a National Loan Scholarship. So I studied with that help.

After 12th again another "Khandam" .In spite of my very high marks, I felt that I cannot burden my father for long, and wanted to be of help to him, by completing studies as early as possible. So I continued with B Sc in the same college.This time ,I got University Merit Scholarship, and by that time fees were also unified and reduced. Thus I completed my graduation studying from the revered institution named after Adi Sankaracharya, in His birth place.

I am not giving this as any suggestion ,but just thought of putting down, to encourage our boys and girls ,that, if one door is closed, there are many many more ready for us.(Many members of this forum will have similar experiences).

For the sincere and well intentioned, definitely God will come to help.
in some form.

Let one of that form be our community collective effort.

Greetings

 

[RVR]

Sri Suryakasyapa,

Let our youngsters treat you as a role model and prosper.

Recently one of our member wrote that a boy studying third year engineering at Sastra University lost both his parents and needs help. Personally I got it verified that it is a genuine case and then spoke to the boy. The boy told me that he has applied for fee waiver from his university and on behalf of our forum, I assured him that we will do our might.

Fortunately the sastra university waived the fees for the entire future period and since the boy is a day scholar & was not requiring further assistance, we closed the case.

But I have to acknowledge here that lot of our own members came forward to help the boy.

Even though we don't have a formal trust right now, I have assurances from quite a few members here to identify really needy boys or girls of our community for financial assistance.

Let the trust evolve gradually but even today we can help a really poor boy or girl scoring high marks with financial assistance. We cannot pay capitation fee like that but we can pay regular tuition fee, books and if required hostel fee also.

All the best

 

[Harini]

I opened this thread anticipating eagerly for a response from Brahmins Association. There was none. However I have posted this thread to Mr.SV.Sekar, [email protected]. I hope that he will respond for this.