Reservation for Brahmins

[Ganamukundhapriya]

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Ignorance is bliss. Same is the case with other communities enjoying the Reservation.Imperfections are the opportunities.

We have been discussing how to pursue it or rather how to even start the process within the community. The fact is we don't have a clue about 'our' community. Many in the community are computer experts but they don't know the population distribution of the community, how many are BPL, how many are just above BPL etc. I suspect we don't know how many students got admitted to government professional colleges last year either. And yet, we still expect political leaders to grant reservation of some kind! Because of our constant pleading!!

Ignorance is bliss. Same is the case with other communities enjoying the Reservation.


We are talking about dealing with a state population fed on brahmin hatred for half a century. Do you think any dravidian political party is going to listen to our rational arguments? One doesn't need fancy arguments to see that many classified as BC are financially better off than brahmins. Even though it is wrong they get it because of their voting numbers. Today, politicians do what the majority wants. Not what is right. That is page 1 of lesson 1.

Imperfections are the opportunities.

It has been a requirement for many decades. And let us not forget the women. They are also half the community. As an example, look at the way the dikshithars in chidambaram have denied girl children from going to school. Who is to be blamed? Now with their numbers and clout dwindling and poverty at their doorstep, imagine their future.

Dikshithars of Chidambaram have proved that they have the necessary clout to handle Dravidian Parties. They live with pride now and Lord Nataraja will ensure that they will continue to do so. Your allegations on them are wrong. Your worry is unfounded.

A wate of time and energy. Ambedkar and Gandhi have no practical relevance in todays political situation. Do you think the politicians don't know what Ambedkar said? Unfortunately some in the community are still not aware of the reality and still prefer to bury their heads under the deep sands of the Marina.

We also do not understand now as to what Vedas and Upanishads mean. It doesn't matter and the fact is that you have these things on your side. Let us use them to our advantage. It is good now that your head is out from the sands.

The only movement that can succeed is the movement of large numbers concentrated in some constituencies. Such a situation needs to be created by voluntary resettlement if needed. Who is willing to do it? Even then it would take 20 plus years and above all a strong leadership that can demand "either grant reservation or be prepared to loose these constituencies". Sadly, the chances of these things happening are almost zero. I would be glad to be proved wrong.

Unfortunately you are right. There is no instant solution. Why don't you start a thread about your idea of concentrating brahmins? Such actions are more important than passing vexatious comments. Come. Let us unite.

 

[pannvalan]

Brahmins and reservation

I have been repeatedly writing about reservation.

1. Reservation per se is not bad.

2. Reservation must be utilized only to uplift the weaker sections of
the society, but not for vote bank politics.

3. The ceiling on reservation is to be 49%.

4. There shall be periodical (at least every 10 years) review and
revision of reservation policy and various groups/classes must be
made ineligible or less eligible for reservation. (On the contrary,
an MBC wants to become an SC and an SC wants to become an
ST etc. as of now which is very shameful and atrocious)

5. One's status in various spheres must be taken into account, so
as to decide on one's overall backwardness or forwardness.

I have elaborated these already. But, to put it in a nutshell,

(a) Caste / Social Class

(b) Economic Status

(c) Educational advancement

(d) Ability to influence the society through one's power
and authority and

(e) Geographical region (Place of living for the past 10 years)

- All these 5 must have equal weight in deciding the issue.

I reiterate that Brahmins must not demand reservation, as I am not only ideologically opposed to it, but also more deserving people wait in the queue, who have not tasted the fruits of reservation, even after 60 years of independence.

 

[Ganamukundhapriya]

Brahmins are the most deserving community for they alone can leverage Reservation in most effective and efficient manner for the betterment of the entire world. Who deserves it better than them? What is the use in providing an advantage to someone who cannot use it advantageously?

If the concern is for the SCs and STs of India, the entire Brahmin community will share it and never they are in the way of benefits reaching them. But which BC or MBC deserve it better than a Brahmin now?

I have been repeatedly writing about reservation.....

I reiterate that Brahmins must not demand reservation, as I am not only ideologically opposed to it, but also more deserving people wait in the queue, who have not tasted the fruits of reservation, even after 60 years of independence.

 

[pannvalan]

I'm so sorry, my dear. At the same time, I could not resist telling that 'Have brahmins really reached the stage of a beggar, asking for reservation?'

You help financially the economically weak brahmins and extend support to the needy.
But, don't ask for reservation. It will belittle our community.

 

[Iyest]

Ignorance is bliss. Same is the case with other communities enjoying the Reservation.

With all the political ignorance within the community, we should have already achieved 100% reservation using your logic.

Imperfections are the opportunities

.

Gee there are such ample opportunities for our community it is so unfair to everyone else!

Dikshithars of Chidambaram have proved that they have the necessary clout to handle Dravidian Parties. They live with pride now and Lord Nataraja will ensure that they will continue to do so. Your allegations on them are wrong. Your worry is unfounded.

Me, worry. What do I know? I only meet dozens of dikshithars and their worried womenfolk still undecided whether to send their girls to school or not. They live with pride though they tell me they would rather live with some food as well. They would be delighted to know that Lord Nataraja has assured you of his support. You may want to use your clout with Him and get a reservation bill passed soon before the dikshithars loose their temple and become extinct within generations. I am assured we have nothing to worry now that you have arrived.

We also do not understand now as to what Vedas and Upanishads mean. It doesn't matter and the fact is that you have these things on your side. Let us use them to our advantage. .

If we don't understand what the vedas mean after 4000 years, we are certainly the most backward community. That alone ought to get us instant reservation. In the mean time kindly point us to the chapters that deal with engineering, medicine, etc. A few students who wish to practise these professiosns will be thrilled to find an equivalent alternative to getting admitted to professional colleges.

It is good now that your head is out from the sands

Don't be too sure. I am still discussing with you!

 

[Iyest]

I'm so sorry, my dear. At the same time, I could not resist telling that 'Have brahmins really reached the stage of a beggar, asking for reservation?'

This is very revealing! 69% of all seats in professional colleges are filled by beggars! Let me see. There was the son of a certain Azhagiri who was admitted to Anna University. Now this name rings a bell! Probably one of the most deprived beggars of the country, eh?

You help financially the economically weak brahmins and extend support to the needy. /QUOTE

So what is wrong in asking for reservation on economic grounds for poor brahmins?

 

[pannvalan]

Reservation policy and its pitfalls, implications and evil effects have already been discussed in this forum in depth.

Do you know Tamilnadu only showed the way to the entire country to breach the 50% ceiling stipulated by Supreme Court? Our Dravidian parties will gladly accept even if they are given 75 or 80% reservation.

These parties with targeted vote banks do not even agree for elimination of creamy layer, as demanded by prudent and even-minded people and supported by Supreme Court.

But I shall tell you.

The economic liberalisation and globalisation have indirectly attacked the reservation policy, owing to the fact that the government (central/state) has ceased to be the largest employer.

I am also happy that imposition of Hindi has also suffered a jolt, due to privatisation in all spheres. I do hope that the clutches of the government will loosen further and it will result in good for the nation.

Remember, until 1980s, the self-financing colleges were not there and so many Brahmin students could not gain admission into any of the professional colleges - medical, engineering, dental, law etc - even if they scored 90% marks.

Later, entrance tests came and afforded some relief. Self-financing colleges at last showed the way to meritorious students who could mobilize financial resources (either on their own or by borrowing from banks), to fulfill their dream of becoming a technocrat or a professional.

Reservation based on any parameter is harmful and dangerous in the long run.

I'm reminded of one real life incident.

There was one rich man, who was literally rolling in money. But, in his young age, he had seen the worst due to extreme poverty. So, what happened, whenever and wherever somebody offered free food (annadanam) or free clothes, he couldn't resist himself and he was present at that place, by going there well before the scheduled time.

Likewise, by seeing others getting benefits out of the present reservation policy, brahmins also should not ask for reservation to themselves. It will degrade them and make them one among the rest.

"Kettalum Maen Makkal, Maen Makkale!"

Brahmins also shall not see education as only an avenue for getting employment somewhere. They shall also think of doing some business - in any field that suits them. They shall thus aspire to give employment to several others.

If this really happens, brahmins' voices will be heard louder and stronger everywhere.
Are we prepared for it?

 

[RKB]

End of Reservation Evil

Nobody understand the evils of Reservation than a Brahmin. But the demand for Reservation by Brahmins certainly has got a Constitutional merit. If a High Court or Supreme Court issues direction to any Government, it becomes binding o them as well. The process may not get Brahmins the Reservation. But it will definitely take all the arguments for and against Reservation to right arena. Discussions happening in Court Halls, Assemblies, Parliament etc in the background of Constitution's obligation to Brahmins will open a new chapter for all in this country. It is something a Brahmin feeling responsible for this country to carry forward.

Happy Ugathi.

 

[tbs]

hi folks,
i was in government service without reservation...can you imagine..?
it is INDIAN ARMY....where there is no reservation....purely on merit..
a lot of brahmin boys did good job...even the great general
padmanabhan belongs to our community...a lot of brahmins
from south and north serving well in the armed forces...where
there is no caste based reservation is not allowed.. i heard
that only ISRO/ defence services...there is no reservation policy...
but surely i dunno....our ancestors served well in british raj...
even my grand father served under british raj...without any
reservation...many tamil brahmins succeded in private companies
basically in bombay with tata and other companies....reservation
only meant for government babu jobs....i heard that the meena
community got SC quota in reservation ....many IAS officers belong
to meena community of rajasthan..their children are still
enjoying as SC caste and getting IAS cadres for continuously
to the present 3rd generation......rservation policy is a mockery to
indian democracy.....

regards
tbs

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

.................their children are still
enjoying as SC caste and getting IAS cadres for continuously
to the present 3rd generation......rservation policy is a mockery to
indian democracy...............

regards
tbs[/QUOTE]

Sri tbs,
the basic fact is that Brahmins , do not cause or create nuisance to the rulers-( simple that they cannot tilt votes as of now)- or to society by indulging in unwelcome acts .

They don't sway as vote banks. Only when the situation comes to the stage that:

"Right or wrong, I will follow my leader "-then only we can achieve something.

Any other community or religion, their renaissance is under their clergy. They are able to cause nuisance and damage to ruling party
( whoever that may be).

But here in our case- the "intellectuals", and "free thinkers" first question and denigrate our vadhyars,our holy books, our traditions.

So the first point of unification itself is cut from below.

(Elephants are said to feel sad ;not on being trapped by human beings.But they are sad that their own folks are helping men to do so. The same is true for our community). The remedy has to start from here.


Greetings

 

[pvraman]

Reservation

The policy of reservation based on caste is fundamentally flawed thats why it is not serving its purpose despite being in action for so many years. Since we understand this flaw, and again if we want to merge into this flow, is not good for us. If somebody feels this system crippled india by 50~69%, there is another dimension is on the cards.

Please read this

Besides this, may be after reading this, as per the TV news, MK spoke to PM for the reservation of Christians, (for the welfare of converted SCs!!) which christian institute has thanked him..(full votu!). See, the system is made illogical by the selfish politicians.


One of the practical and reasonable solutions could be to pressurize the govt to change the reservation system with the same percentage, based on the economically backward student. This is a second best option, and will really benefit those who really deserve. The only problem will come here, out of contestants to whom it shall be given (since caste issue will come in front). So this system will also find hurdles in future. So the best solution would be to grant

Free Education to all economically backward students till +2 in govt school, which shall be revised year after year (as the fortune may change) [this can be tracked easily than finding a needy person among one's caste) and reserving the seats (upto 75% should not be a problem) for higher education [based on the marks and entrance score- in descending order] for these students who exclusively come from govt school.

This is like oru kallula many mango's.

I am expecting the following side effects.

1. The quality of education will improve drastically
2. The private english schools kottam adangum
3. Policians money making skill will go down
4. Jati arasial will take the back seat
Importantly
5. The benefit will go the deserved
6. Our Community's legitimate wishes will also be fullfilled.
7. No compromise in skills.

-----------

After finishing the university, those who enjoyed reservation should be given job for one or two years as a contractual basis in a govt firm with some stipend. After that, they should be free to join anywhere as they would have acquired the necessary theory and practical skills to serve.

Cheers

 

[Dr.N]

As regards to Arts & Science colleges, there are several 'Vaishnava' colleges and 'Jain' colleges in Chennai. No doubt the founders intension was to help those deserving in the Forward Community. But today the Jains are demanding reservation and have achieved good success in their demand for minority status. Therefore the Jain community has started many more Arts colleges and also Engineering colleges and are helping their community. But what about the 'Vaishnava' colleges. the Brahmins do not any more have full management control of these colleges. There is no open support for Brahmins in Vaishnava colleges for otherwise they cannot fill up the management quota by getting their due in return! (How poor Brahmins can satisfy a greedy Brahmin educator).

The myth that Brahmins can have their own Schools and Colleges and thus help their community is false. That is possible only if Reservation or Minority status is conferred to Brahmins. The educational institutions supposed to be owned by a Brahmin are not doing anything for Brahmins, except the lip services. They will sell even the Trustee position of their college management to another community philanthropist or even to a Dravidian party politician. There is no respect in Vaishnava colleges now for Brahmins to which many of our Brahmin Philanthropists have donated their lands and wealth in the last generation. Brahmin Association (Thambhras) does not even know as to what is happening now.

What is needed first to us is another association for Brahmins that can tactically handle situation for the advantage of our community. Jains are just doing that. We have to learn from them.

 

[Iyest]

The myth that Brahmins can have their own Schools and Colleges and thus help their community is false. That is possible only if Reservation or Minority status is conferred to Brahmins.

Yes, you understand the problem well. Better than most people. Even if minority status is granted, it could be revoked by any party and certainly the DK will oppose it tooth and nail in TN.

The educational institutions supposed to be owned by a Brahmin are not doing anything for Brahmins, except the lip services.

Actually be thankful for their lip service. It is a lot better than what is offered by many other brahmins. There are the urban brahmins in cities like Chennai and Bangalore with their subtle contempt of the poor and rural brahmins. These people still claim that reservation is not needed and that everyone can achieve because they achieved! In other words, if a brahmin does not succeed, there is something wrong with him/her! These people are more familiar with pubs than poverty, hamburgers than hand to mouth living. We also have the NRI beer guzzling brahmins proudly proclaiming that everyone in their family has settled abroad and they visit TN annualy just to meet some distant relative! They see India full of opportunities now and don't understand why other brahmins need any help!

Brahmin Association (Thambhras) does not even know as to what is happening now.

It never did. I had asked pointed questions to their 'leader' some years back about what they were doing in specific areas to help the community. Needless to say, they never replied.

What is needed first to us is another association for Brahmins that can tactically handle situation for the advantage of our community. Jains are just doing that. We have to learn from them.

I don't know whether any new association will do any better. But we have to learn the basics of survival from others. Natural law demands survival of only the fittest. Nobody else. Yet some people are still counting on outside forces ranging from the private sector to divine intervention. A sure sign that the community is on the road to nowhere.

 

[RVR]

Foreign Universities Bill

Proposed foreign Universities Bill doesn't talk about reservation. Prof P.V.Indiresan - Ex Director of IIT Madras analyses it in the following article.
The Hindu Business Line : Foreign Universities Bill and its impact

All the best

 

[RKB]

Foreign Universities Bill

Foreign Universities in India is not going to offer any succor to Brahmins. Yes. Brahmins benefit only if there is a possibility of migration away from the discriminations in their home land. Even generally the foreign universities do not automatically mean good quality (Australian lesson) but only mean good opportunity because of indiscrimination.

Kapil Sibal's model is drafted by a Padmashri Brahmin, who runs a Business School in Chennai. It is about giving 'Section 25' status (under Company Law) to these Universities and thus portraying them as company thus to be controlled only by CLB. All of NCHER, UGC, AICTE ,MCI cannot control them but will be approving these Institutions, if opted for!!! Therefore even Reservation scheme will not be applicable to them.

There are already 69 Foreign University institutions of this type in India and almost all of them are managed by Forward Community NRIs like our Padmashri Brahmin. None of these people mean any help to their community and all of them charge sky high fees.But all of these people established themselves by arousing community sentiments by one way or the other. Kapil Sibal and MHRD know that they cannot be challenged in the Court and thus the Foreign University Bill in a way is for regularizing this business of education!!!

Today one has to spend in Crores to gain 'Section 25' status and this is many times more than the money for 'Deemed University' status.

 

[Harini]

The Irony is that Mr.Gurumurthy, also a Brahmin and also a Leader advocating Swadeshi model of economics is in full support of this Foreign Universities Bill.

Today the public postures of Brahmin leaders are not transparent and their integrity could not be believed.

 

[RVR]

Quality of post graduate education in India has almost collapsed.

Even IIT and other eminent institutions are catering to Undergraduate studies only.

Most of the students opt for foreign universities for Post Graduate education

If one reads Prof P V Indiresan's article objectively, there is a possibility of doing post graduate education in a foreign university here itself. Most of the multi national companies operating in India will recruit students from eminent international universities operating in India. Most of the research of foreign multinational companies will be done by these foreign universities here itself and students who pursue higher education will get the double benefit of degree certificate as well as exposure to real international industrial/business environment.

If these institutions work purely on merit principle, then they can attract the best talents among the student community and at the same time get funded by multi-national companies for their project. This way burden on students will be less.

Let us wait and see how things shape up. Let us listen to eminent people like Prof Indiresan (one of the strong advocates of anti-reservation lobby) and not come into any hasty conclusions.

All the best

 

[Iyest]

Proposed foreign Universities Bill doesn't talk about reservation. Prof P.V.Indiresan - Ex Director of IIT Madras analyses it in the following article.
The Hindu Business Line : Foreign Universities Bill and its impact

All the best

Ok, let us assume they start functioning in a few years time and admit students purely on merit. That would be welcomed by the community. However, they would still charge exorbitant fees by Indian standards, probably several lakhs. Any sincere brahmin organization must now start planning different ways to provide financial assistance to their students who may finally get a seat on merit but who are too poor to either pay up or assume excessive bank loans. Otherwise this would only help the elite in the community who would have been admitted to private capitation colleges or gone abroad anyway.

 

[Dr.N]

There is nothing in PG education!!

If Brahmins have to regain their pride, they have to shun their attitude of 'aping the West'. What quality has been guaranteed so far by any Foreign University? Are they going to say 1 + 2 as other than 3? Please note that bulk of the teaching faculty even in USA are from India and China. When these professors of foreign university are made to visit campuses in India, they seldom deliver anything. Brahmins should reassert their superiority in teaching by bringing back their traditional techniques of teaching and taking the same to foreign universities in foreign land. Let us say 'No' to foreign universities. The 'Wait and watch' attitude has ditched us in the past.

Moreover the PG education should be linked to industries and should be administered as sandwich course for people with experience in industry. Only in India it is run as business and is administered to freshers after their UG. Their is no use in generating surplus expertise!! The MNCs in India prefer now only high schoolers. Even the Business Schools nowadays find it difficult to push their students to MNCs.

Quality of post graduate education in India has almost collapsed.

Even IIT and other eminent institutions are catering to Undergraduate studies only.

Most of the students opt for foreign universities for Post Graduate education

If one reads Prof P V Indiresan's article objectively, there is a possibility of doing post graduate education in a foreign university here itself. Most of the multi national companies operating in India will recruit students from eminent international universities operating in India. Most of the research of foreign multinational companies will be done by these foreign universities here itself and students who pursue higher education will get the double benefit of degree certificate as well as exposure to real international industrial/business environment.

If these institutions work purely on merit principle, then they can attract the best talents among the student community and at the same time get funded by multi-national companies for their project. This way burden on students will be less.

Let us wait and see how things shape up. Let us listen to eminent people like Prof Indiresan (one of the strong advocates of anti-reservation lobby) and not come into any hasty conclusions.

All the best

 

[RKB]

Brand IIT Brahmins

RVR sir,

You have made known your assessment of IITs quality in your first line. Then why you talk high of a IIT professor in the last line?

Please visit the link: IIT Madras Research Park: Research and Development, Innovation management to know the ambition of all the professors of IIT Madras for a secured post retirement second innings. This IIT Madras branded research park is a Section 25 company! Not only the GoI, all the corporates also are flooding this venture with their money. But it is a pure Business House with a necessity to siphon out all its profit by lavish incentives. This is a brainchild of the top Brahmin mind of IIT!!!

Quality of post graduate education in India has almost collapsed.

Even IIT and other eminent institutions are catering to Undergraduate studies only.

Let us wait and see how things shape up. Let us listen to eminent people like Prof Indiresan (one of the strong advocates of anti-reservation lobby) and not come into any hasty conclusions.

All the best

 

[RVR]

If Brahmins have to regain their pride, they have to shun their attitude of 'aping the West'. What quality has been guaranteed so far by any Foreign University? Are they going to say 1 + 2 as other than 3? Please note that bulk of the teaching faculty even in USA are from India and China. When these professors of foreign university are made to visit campuses in India, they seldom deliver anything. Brahmins should reassert their superiority in teaching by bringing back their traditional techniques of teaching and taking the same to foreign universities in foreign land. Let us say 'No' to foreign universities. The 'Wait and watch' attitude has ditched us in the past.

Moreover the PG education should be linked to industries and should be administered as sandwich course for people with experience in industry. Only in India it is run as business and is administered to freshers after their UG. Their is no use in generating surplus expertise!! The MNCs in India prefer now only high schoolers. Even the Business Schools nowadays find it difficult to push their students to MNCs.

Why our own community people go to a foreign land and prosper there. Why not they prosper in India. Why Dr Chandrasekhar and Dr Venky Ramakrishnan are going nobel prize only from a foreign soil.

I am not saying allowing foreign universities is going to change the whole scenerio over night. But I am sure if we bring competition in the education field, definitely over all quality of education will improve.

Teaching profession in India has lost its charm due to various factors. Our own community in the present generation is avoiding teaching profession within India. Why it is happening? It is not just money alone but bureaucracy hurdles and the working environment are preventing them to take up teaching profession.

Let us welcome competition so that the user will get the benefit.

All the best

 

[RVR]

RVR sir,

You have made known your assessment of IITs quality in your first line. Then why you talk high of a IIT professor in the last line?

Please visit the link: IIT Madras Research Park: Research and Development, Innovation management to know the ambition of all the professors of IIT Madras for a secured post retirement second innings. This IIT Madras branded research park is a Section 25 company! Not only the GoI, all the corporates also are flooding this venture with their money. But it is a pure Business House with a necessity to siphon out all its profit by lavish incentives. This is a brainchild of the top Brahmin mind of IIT!!!

Prof Indiresan Ex Director of IIT Madras is a totally different person as compared to others.

He spoke long back in front of ex President of India, Gyani Zail Singh in an IIT Madras convocation address that he trains world class engineers who migrate outside India and produce world class cars. We are only importing such cars to India which is pathetic But a driver of such a car of an Indian businessman gets more salary then what he is drawing as IIT Director. Because of such a talk, he was not given extension for another term as Director. He was least bothered about the denial and continues his crusade against the vested interests in Government and outside in the field of education.

Let us not compare Prof Indiresan with others.

All the best

 

[Ganamukundhapriya]

Supreme Disposes through Supreme Court

Check the link below please. We are not using the Supreme Court and Constitution to our advantage.

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/curren...ver-chidambaram-temple-tn-govt.html#post43503

Me, worry. What do I know? I only meet dozens of dikshithars and their worried womenfolk still undecided whether to send their girls to school or not. They live with pride though they tell me they would rather live with some food as well. They would be delighted to know that Lord Nataraja has assured you of his support. You may want to use your clout with Him and get a reservation bill passed soon before the dikshithars loose their temple and become extinct within generations. I am assured we have nothing to worry now that you have arrived.

 

[pvraman]

A model -
BBC News - Indian school helping the brightest Muslims


Cheers

 

[RVR]

A model -
BBC News - Indian school helping the brightest Muslims


Cheers

Very good effort.

It has to be appreciated.

All the best