Reservation for Brahmins

[pannvalan]

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After watching many developments in the past 2 years, I cannot resist writing this.

I am very sorry to note that Hoover is banned. Let me clarify in no uncertain terms that I do not agree with the way he communicated. Yet, I see some partiality here. Though I am not questioning anyone's decision or action, I hope I am entitled to put forth my viewpoints here. I also wish to add that I am nobody's counsel, but express only what is fair and just, in my own assessment.

A person going to another person's house, using another person's property etc. must know the limits where his/her liberty stops.

A person teasing the entire brahmin community in the name of freedom of expression, demeaning many features and practices of them in the name of liberal and progressive views, throwing open challenges against many members - seniors included, misinterpreting many settled principles and ideologies, using insinuations/innuendos liberally, using the concept of 'you group' and 'we group' to cause divisions, provoking many without any reason, using sophisticated epithets for name calling, sometimes indulging in direct abuse, ganging up with some of the senior members of the forum to corner one person, exploiting the opportunities given for defence to attack further, taking revenge by ensuring expulsion/withdrawal of members - All these point to some malaise within ourselves.

In the name of self-appraisal and self-correction, let us not allow criticism beyond a level. Scathing attacks couched in very beautiful arguments shall not be permitted. Very nicely worded phrases of English language shall not be welcome to destroy our identity. Quotes from exotic and indigenous sources are not for the purpose of despising ourselves. We shall not mislead the younger generation by tacitly encouraging them to repeat such action.

If this is allowed to continue, the forum may have to lose many more senior members who are deeply hurt (e.g. Nachchinarkkiniyan).

I ask one simple question:

Can any one of us become a 'very active' member of another community with a distinct identity like ours, indulge in polished attacks on their basics/fundamentals and still get away with protection afforded from within, praises showered for the brave and erudite behaviour and continued support for the supposed scholarship of the intruder?

 

[suresoo]

Dear Pannvalan,

In the name of self-appraisal and self-correction, let us not allow criticism beyond a level. Scathing attacks couched in very beautiful arguments shall not be permitted. Very nicely worded phrases of English language shall not be welcome to destroy our identity. Quotes from exotic and indigenous sources are not for the purpose of despising ourselves. We shall not mislead the younger generation by tacitly encouraging them to repeat such action.

I support this notion.
A forum like this should dedicate its efforts to uplift the community from current challenges
rather than 'challenge the validity of the community' based on yesterdays assumptions.

thanks,

 

[happyhindu]

ShivKC,

Since this is about me. I think i shd answer.

@@ I have become quite aware of the levels to which tambrams can stoop.

One member repeatedly kept labeling me a missionary. Then went on to label me a street dog. And this man is supposed to be the vox populi of tambrams. Therefore I stand by the above sentence. Please note: am well aware of tambrams outside this forum who are completely different from the guys on this forum. Therefore whatever i say applies to these forum members alone.

@@ If 'brahmins' did not like lokayatas, they just burned their texts, obfuscated, interpolated, usurped their ontologies, and even started calling lokayata a form of advaita.

This is a historical fact.

@@ Varna crossovers are recommeded only by people who are street-dogs. Or by missionaries. To the tambrams, its all about them, their greatness, their birthright, as "BRAHMINS" -- loud and clear.

This too pertained to RVR. Please read the second sentence as a continuation from the first sentence. As such, we do not hear of anti-brahmanism (of the TN sort) in other southern states. No one can clap with one hand. And as far as i understand, tambrams too contributed to the mess in many ways. And i feel there is nothing wrong in mentioning them.

i have copied only one percent, balance 99% venom can be seen in many a recent threads around . is there anything for the community to learn from this. so be it for any other brahmins, but why someone is pricking specific about tambrams

You may please bring the remaining 99 percent to my notice, if you wish for an explanation.

Thankyou.

 

[suresoo]

Dear KRS / Moderator,

I do not know if he will be coming back under a new handlename. If he does so, i wud be glad to read his response.

'Member Hoover' had decided to move on, Its 'not polite' to assume he will return as a proxy.
'Member HH' had thrown the Proxy word on others a couple of times before.

I request you to raise a 'Show Cause', in the absence we give a impression this is a 'Old Boys Network'

thanks,

 

[happyhindu]

A person teasing the entire brahmin community in the name of freedom of expression, demeaning many features and practices of them in the name of liberal and progressive views, throwing open challenges against many members - seniors included, misinterpreting many settled principles and ideologies, using insinuations/innuendos liberally, using the concept of 'you group' and 'we group' to cause divisions, provoking many without any reason, using sophisticated epithets for name calling, sometimes indulging in direct abuse, ganging up with some of the senior members of the forum to corner one person, exploiting the opportunities given for defence to attack further, taking revenge by ensuring expulsion/withdrawal of members - All these point to some malaise within ourselves.

Shri Pannvalan,

You and i have had our differences in the past. Example: to you, the validity of scriptures (as portrayed by the orthodoxy) must not be questioned, the words of seers are final and must not be questioned, and so on.

If such words are not supported by historical facts, then others have every reason to state it so. To you, anything that goes against the conjured up history or explanations of the orthodoxy is misinterpretation (ofcourse not all is conjured up).

And let me remind you sir, that provocation each time came from the orthodoxy, which wud not even allow discussions to take place. They just do not want such posts to exist on the forum. Name calling too came from the orthodoxy. And the 'you group' and the 'we group' also came from folks like janmajeya and vamanan.

In the name of self-appraisal and self-correction, let us not allow criticism beyond a level. Scathing attacks couched in very beautiful arguments shall not be permitted. Very nicely worded phrases of English language shall not be welcome to destroy our identity. Quotes from exotic and indigenous sources are not for the purpose of despising ourselves. We shall not mislead the younger generation by tacitly encouraging them to repeat such action.

What you see as criticism may merely be a fact of history. Here you use the term "our identity", but you seem to have a problem when others use the term "your identity".

Shri Pannvalan, am sure you know that there are NBs also who take caste purity seriously. Needless to say they are elderly old people who cannot look beyoind their own prejudices. Thankfully, the younger generations do not seem to take such things seriously.

The younger generation sir, fortunately, seems much more well informed than the older generation, bcoz of the internet and access to any kind of information.

If this is allowed to continue, the forum may have to lose many more senior members who are deeply hurt (e.g. Nachchinarkkiniyan).

It is quite obvious that Shri Nachinarkiniyan left due to folks like Sbala who wud not stop hounding him. It is not necessary for everyone to read every post on the forum. If there are topics that folks such as yourself do not like, there is no necessity for you to read them.

Regards.

 

[pannvalan]

I wish to add some more points.

1. Atrocities in the past have been perpetrated by several sections of the society, against the illiterate, poor and defenceless. But, in this, the role
of Tamil Brahmins alone is not as it is portrayed to be. Their role juxtaposed with that of the other dominant sections at that time is very small.

2. Painting the entire community with black brush is quite unfair, because black sheep exist in every caste/class of the society.

3. The mistakes committed by unknown someone in the past shall not be ground for finding fault with the present generation.

4. Singling out Tamil Brahmins while accusing, in comparison to their brethren in the neighbouring states, smacks of some deep-seated prejudice.

5. Personal views and beliefs shall not lead one to assume subjectivity and form bias. If it happens, passing judgement based on incomplete facts or
perceived facts is bound to reflect one's own mindset.

6. Unfortunately, some amongst us who consider themselves intellectually superior and an authority on religion and culture abet this phenomenon.

Even oblique references (with negative connotations loaded) against the admins and implicit challenges thrown open shall not go unnoticed.

 

[Raghy]

Respectable members,

Greetings. Since Sri.Hoover has left the forum (request to be banned is as good as leaving the forum. Like I said before, Sri.Hoover had not developed communication skills), I am not batting for Sri.Hoover anymore (even I too learn sometimes!:biggrin1. Now I am batting for remaining Sri.Hoovers of this forum.

Sri.KRS was kind enough reply my concerns with respect to Sri.Hoover. But he did not address my concerns with respect to Sri.Hoovers of this forum. I requested

Sri.Hoover's of this forum may consider this forum as a place of respite. We do not really know what he or people like him went through in life just because they are born in that caste. Their sensitivities should be taken in consideration too. There are somany threads where caste brahmins and their forefathers are criticised quite heavily. I have done such criticism too. There is only a thin line between heavy criticism and insulting. When a person gets frustrated, his/her language may not be that sweet. When moderators moderate Sri.Hoover's of this forum, they should think about the other side of the coin too, please.

When moderators expect politically correct messages from Sri.Hoovers, moderators also should assure political correctness for Sri.Hoovers and their sensitivities.

for this. Although Sri.KRS did not address my quoted request, I am confident he would take the quoted message in consideration.

I have to address Sri.Nara's message with respect to this subject - Sri. Nara said to Sri. Sangom

Dear Shri Sangom, often times the last straw may not be very significant, it may even be just a feather of a peacock (h/t Thiruvalluvar). After loads and loads of offensive outbursts and refusal to even attempt to provide simple explanation, I am unable to see what a moderator can do other than what was done to Hoover.

பீலிபெய் சாகாடும் அச்சிறும் அப்பண்டம்
சாலமிகுத்துப் பெயின் - Thiruvalluvar.

பீலிபெய் - peacock feather சாகாடு- load சாலமிகுத்து - much more பெயின் - loaded.

When Sri.Hoover signed his undertaking, his slate should be clean. By Sri.Nara's own admission, his post in #643 is light like a peacock feather. A peacok feather on a clean slate can not be an 'over load'. Also, by Sri. KRS's own admission, Sow.HH's post to Sri.Hoover is subject to different interpretations. So, in my opinion, Sri.Nara's post in #668 is not appropriate. His post can't be really justified. (Sri.Sangom sir, kindly pardon me. Since I did not see a reply from you, I replied to that post).

This forum is required to protect the sensitivities of Sri.Hoovers too. Sow.HH had not mentioned anywhere that her sensitivities were offended; but, the moderator acted to protect those sensitivities. I expect the moderators to protect the sensitivities of Sri.Hoovers of this forum in the similar fashion; that is, although a member has not complained about an offence to his/her sensitivities, the moderation should feel for the sensitivities of that member and protect their sensitivities.

I am interested in protecting the sensitivities of Sri.Hoovers of this forum.

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

Sow.Sri.Happy Hindu said -

I request you to go thru the postings of Janmajeya and Vamanan (who always made it clear that ‘brahmin’ descent is exclusive to ‘brahmins’ alone). They are not the only ones. There are other posters also who think they descended from Brahma. One also mentioned that a brahmin is an adobe of brahma. So the ‘brahmin’ mentality is rather clear when it comes to origins, descent, lineages and so on. I also request you to go thru Hoover’s past postings in which he has always been clear of his (that is, brahmin) exclusivity. It wud be useless to ask such a man a question using a shared identity term, which is why i asked him a question using the term “your” forefathers. The question however was not to focus on the forefathers issue per se. It was meant to be linked to the the caste census. And i have not received a reply from him yet reg the main question on caste census.

Sow.Happy Hindu, Greetings. I don't think I need to go through sri.Janameya's and Sri.Vamanan's messages. With respect to Sri.Hoover's message, your message is subjective to different interpretations, so was his message. I am not trying to fnd fault with anyone. All I am asking the administration is, while I and other members protect your sensitivities, the same kind of protection should be extended to the sensitivities of Sri.Hoovers of this forum. The discussions have gone well past the 'forefather' references, in my opinion. I hope this clears.

Cheers!

 

[praveen]

--- my 2cents below as a regular member of this website and not as the admin ---

This is addressed to the participants above and to all other "active" participants.

As each day progresses, i am sick and tired of reading the same old cr*p - he said this, they said that, i said this, you said that... he is a proxy of x, she is this.. he is that... blah blah blah blah...........

cmon ppl, i thought we are all mature adults... so whats the point in unnecessarily pulling one another and indulge in mudslinging again and again and again...

every single day (every few hours) when i login, its the same thing whether in this thread or in some other thread... the topics might be different, but the individuals are one and same..

if one does not agree with another view or feel offended by it, just stay away. Just dont participate to make life difficult for everyone especially the admin team.

The admin team does not run a creche where everyone has to be taken care of every single second. Everyone has a life to live, a business to run and work to be done. Not to run around sorting out mess that never stops....

--- my more than 2cents below as an admin and owner of this website ---

Whether you know it or not, i dont make millions out of this website to keep putting up with all these bickering/mudslinging... Nor can i afford to employ some poeple to clean up all that is being said.

for the last 4 years or so, i have put in my own money to keep this place up not because of any riches that i am going to earn... but because i wanted to provide a platform for us to discuss intellectually about all that has been and all that is going to be...

Now, sitting in my home at 525pm IST, i am seriously contemplating selling this website to some body (i dont care if he is a B or A or C or D or watever), get whatever i have invested and move on to something less stressful, continue to live out my mortal existence just like the millions other out there unmindful of what happens to the community as such.

i am not any 40+ md/ceo of some top company who has made his/her fortune elsewhere and running this because i have free time to kill. I am just an ordinary guy who just like everyone else has a family and wants to do something for the community he is born into, not out of compulsion, but because i do not want us to be a page in the books of history.

As a single guy, i cannot do much. That is the reason this website was created. To bring 2 or more people who can do something for the community. But the more i interact on a personal level with some of you (with a few exception), the more i realize everyone has an ego twice the size of eiffel tower and no one is willing to adapt/change or accept.

For once, I leave the choice to you (everyone above) to decide whether to continue whatever i have been doing the last 4 years or shut shop.

If you can participate with an open mind on an intellectual level, leaving aside all personal ego and mindblock, please do, i will be the most happiest person.

Else, please let me know via pm or email, i will shutdown the website, go find a buyer and if successful sell it off to him/her and i will just disappear into the crowd, satisfied that i tried my best to do something.

Yet again, this thread is now being closed.

* if my outburst has hurt any of you in any way, i am sorry. It was not intentional.