Reservation for Brahmins

[Karur chandru]

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chandru,

i think at this moment, the brahmin community is as prosperous as it ever was.

yes, there is a lament at the loss of government jobs. but who wants them? has not the paradigm changed in favour of private sector and jobs abroad?

how many of us moan the denial of a medical seat? 25 years ago my cousin with 94% in PUC was denied admission in medical college. instead she opted to do biology, and without going too much into detail, i would like to tell you that she is in line for VP at one of the foremost biomedic companies in the world based in USA.

every hinderance is an opportunity and where there is easy ways out, we have not done as well we could have. in singapore, for example, where there is no discrimination, the outstanding students are chinese and not tambrams. the same goes in the usa. yes a fair number do well, but many children of high achieving parents just 'get by'.

i think adversity brings out the best. i have asking to identify what the poverty level is here and what we define poverty as. the poverty in our community is our own doing ie the middle class. we want the exclusive brahmin serviced cooks, companions for our parents and (ofcourse) chavundis.

did you see the ads here in this forum, for how many exclusive tambram cooks and caretakers? i have seen my relatives in chennai, many expressing indignation, at the price of a tambram help. we the middle and upper class tambrams think we are entitled to service from the poorer tambrams.

i personally think, the most envy and hatred of tambram community as a whole, comes from that soft underbelly of our society - the cooks, chavundis and caretakers. the good news is that these are a declining breed. most of these's sons and daughters aspire to be higher status in life.

the government may give reservations, but it will be the middle class finnagling the papers, who will benefit and heave a sigh of relief that they spent only fifty thousand ruppees for their son or daughter's education instead of five lakhs.

personally, the government can keep all the reservations to their pet communities. we can get ahead. just let us follow the examples of jains, gujjus, sindhis, parsis and become self reliant. the pen and brain is any day mightier than the brawn. let us use it to the maximum.

thank you.

Respected Kunjuppu,
Hope you have not cherished the actual facts brought out by me. I am a senior citizen and was in high position in govt., and know the realities and the facts, as well as the intention behind every action. Our community is not primarily a 'business community' and for centuries did 'servitude' either in low position or in high position. It is true that our younger generations have opted for private sectors in the absence of entry in Govt. sector. This is a nothing but a compulsion and alternative route for survival. In the absence of entry in the posts and professions you mentioned above, one cannot say that " these grapes are sour and who wants it". Every citizen of India has equal right of profession and entry in jobs and we cannot give up our rights just because some injustice has been done and continued for years. I agree that adversary do pave path for better and alternative opportunity, but one should invariably remember that all people are not lucky enough to reach high position as you said. Many 'misfortunate- brothers' have fallen down deep and could not raise up their heads for decades together and I personally know such incidents. We are not talking about fortunate few who are able to elevate them-selves or got elevated by their elite parents, but 'unfortunate many' who no god-fathers and who are not ,pot-bellied', (but with starvation stricken bellies), in this country who are in middle class or lower middle class status. I have seen many brothers who could not take even one squre meal a day and begging. Let us not be satisfied by seeing a few affluent, but feel sympathatic with many 'have-nots' and under previlaged in this community also.

 

[sangom]

Respected Kunjuppu,
Hope you have not cherished the actual facts brought out by me. I am a senior citizen and was in high position in govt., and know the realities and the facts, as well as the intention behind every action. Our community is not primarily a 'business community' and for centuries did 'servitude' either in low position or in high position. It is true that our younger generations have opted for private sectors in the absence of entry in Govt. sector. This is a nothing but a compulsion and alternative route for survival. In the absence of entry in the posts and professions you mentioned above, one cannot say that " these grapes are sour and who wants it". Every citizen of India has equal right of profession and entry in jobs and we cannot give up our rights just because some injustice has been done and continued for years. I agree that adversary do pave path for better and alternative opportunity, but one should invariably remember that all people are not lucky enough to reach high position as you said. Many 'misfortunate- brothers' have fallen down deep and could not raise up their heads for decades together and I personally know such incidents. We are not talking about fortunate few who are able to elevate them-selves or got elevated by their elite parents, but 'unfortunate many' who no god-fathers and who are not ,pot-bellied', (but with starvation stricken bellies), in this country who are in middle class or lower middle class status. I have seen many brothers who could not take even one squre meal a day and begging. Let us not be satisfied by seeing a few affluent, but feel sympathatic with many 'have-nots' and under previlaged in this community also.

Dear Shri Chandru,

Let me first of all state that I am in 101 percent agreement with you. But somehow the fact that there are still many tambrams in the BPL or "just above the poverty line", does not seem to convince the membership in this forum. Shri Kunjuppu has stated that poverty, if any, among tambrams is squarely due to "our own doing ie the middle class. we want the exclusive brahmin serviced cooks, companions for our parents and (ofcourse) chavundis." I, for one, strongly feel that since we have been fortunate in life somehow, it is not correct to make a blanket pronouncement that if some one is not successful, then it is purely due to his/her own deficiencies and sort of condemn them. There are many unforeseen and unfathomable mysteries of nature and it can happen to any one of us even, that a child of ours just does not shape up in life, despite all our knowledge of the ways to success and our advice. We should not, therefore, make such assumptions as stated by Shri Kunjuppu above.

Now it is necessary to produce some evidence which will convince him that not only these classes but there are many others in the tambram community who are poor. Will you be able to do it? For example,in Trivandrum there is only one undertaker for tambrams, AFAIK. He is an old B.A., literature, and knows almost all the mantras and procedures, for the 13 day rituals! In fact he managed the entire sancayanam for my mother because of some unforeseen "theettu" for the vadhyar. Probably he earns much much more than even the main vadhyars; anyway he owns one auto, besides his house! This shows how ground realities differ from some perceptions held by people living far away.

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear chandru,

My first request to you is to avoid calling people names like ‘elites’ or such like. we are all honourable members and should treat other such ie with dignity and respect. Two other threads were closed (rightfully so) because members with weak arguments, resorted to using epithets. Let us all endeavour and put extra efforts to avoid such behaviour. Hope this is ok.

First of all, I agree with you 100% that everyone should have access to government services like jobs. This ofcourse leads to many other avenues of discussion, primarily because favoured reservations. I think we will disagree and let us discuss the merits or demerits of reservations in another thread at your convenience. Ours is a society built on structural injustices. Under the guise of religion and culture, 25% of our humanity were consigned to a status in life, that none of us would want for ourselves or our children.

Per today’s international morality standards what the hindu society had in store for the dalits would be considered ‘crimes against humanity’. It is going to take a long time to right these and along with it, the caste based divisions, which have now become the proverbial genie in the box, that has been left out. It is unfortunate that tambrams now, are the wrong community in the wrong time to be in tamil nadu.

1. Let us come back to the crux of your post as I understand it. To quote you, ‘in this country who are in middle class or lower middle class status. I have seen many brothers who could not take even one squre meal a day and begging. Let us not be satisfied by seeing a few affluent, but feel sympathatic with many 'have-nots' and under previlaged in this community also.’
I suspect that as a community, we are among the most prosperous in india with a vast majority of us middle class. You appear find fault with middle class. What is wrong with that. when one draws a bell curve of our community’s profile, I think it would be faily skewed, with a small number of very rich and a small number of very poor.
Ofcourse there are poor, but as a percentage of the total community, I suspect that tambrams have fewer percentage of poor than other tamil castes. Except perhaps the chettiars. You might note that charity begins at home, and if we consider our extended tambram community as our own, yes there is a need to give a hand to deserving folks. The word ‘deserving’ is very important – because I think in the india of today, barring the hopeless cases due to mental or psychological problems, every young man or woman of our community can find jobs if they are willing – to relocate esp to Chennai, take a starter job regardless of whether they feel it would ‘undignify’ them and above all, be ambitious with a drive to get up in the world.
I do not think you can keep those with these traits down. Also we have to realize that there are dying professions, even though we may be emotionally attached to it. Village priests without the critical number of Brahmin families to support them comes foremost. There may be others that I am not aware of.
An emotional lament, citing odd cases of poverty or indigence, and blaming the whole society for it, is, I think, not the way to address the status of the deserving indigents among us. These need not and should not be doled out just money but nurtured and motivated to self help and help them set goals so that they can strive after it. Prosperity and achievements do not come by sitting on one’s seat or having to indulge in finding fault with society at large. It comes from setting goals, and drawing a plan, as to how to go from here to there.
Again, not all tambrams are going to live in maadi veedus. But if everyone of our community has a roof, enough food, clothing and dignity, I would say the bottom most parameters have been achieved. Anything over and above that, will depend on their own drive and initiatives. Hope this is ok.

in this context, i do not know if reservations in government would really go to the needy of us. i suspect that the middle class will encroach and the needy will remain needy. it is where our commnity organizations can be of better help.

 

[kunjuppu]

sangom,

i think you have missed completely the point(s) of my note. so let me try again.

i am not one to deny poverty. in fact i have been asking so many times in the forum for metrics. as you who is in india, i presume you have some sort of measuring stick to gauge the poverty of tamil brahmins. i will accept that and request you to extrapolate it here. all i need to know what is the basis of your statements, and how much is backed by facts, and how much by intuitions.

as you are also aware, that one can gauge the strength of a hurricane better from afar than sitting in the eye of the storm. there are amazing studies done on poverty in india, and information is not so hard to get and analyze. also for me, frequent visits (sometimes twice a year, and regular chats with family gives me a bird's eye view, but i accept that may not be the truth. perhaps you can tell me the same. greatly appreciated.

i am going to post a statement below. this was given to me by a member of this forum for whom i have a very high regard, and whose assessment i would go along.

Like in any other community, there are both very rich and at the same time very poor people in Brahmin community also. May be the proportion of rich to poor is less in Brahmin community. 72% of the Indians live at less than 1.20 $ per day. In Brahmin community, it may 27% instead of 72%.

But getting job in Tamilnadu, Bangalore and north India is not at all difficult. But still there are people who have not developed any skills to get a proper employment. But they are small in number as compared to majority of our community members.

However lot of jobs are available as temple priests, cooks/servers, assistant to vadhyars etc. Nowadays, Vadhyar doesn’t take food in Shrardham and collects money for guiding the performance. Only poor Brahmin assistants take food and they are paid around Rs.250 or so. They don’t get this income daily and have to wait for their turn at the will and pleasure of the Vaadhyar. There are plenty of poor Brahmins who assemble during the death ceremony functions to collect small donations. These people have migrated to cities without any goal and are living in pathetic conditions.

However there is tremendous shortage of Gurukkal, Battacharyas in the rural area. Even smarthas are appointed to do puja in local temples in rural areas.

the questions i would propose is that i would accept the 27% for arguements' sake (even though i think it is on the higher side), how to grade it into target groups: absolute hopeless cases, not interested, need skillsets, and also the various levels of poverty ie define the grades. a person earning thousand ruppees is worse off than five thousand ruppees even though both might fall into the poverty grouping.

so, with this note, i hope you have some idea of where i was going. i agree that i have limitations with the english language and probably with every other language as well. but sire, you have been a scholar and gentleman, and perhaps you would start with the observation of another eminent member of this forum quoted here, and give us your take on that.

i honestly believe that would be a starting point to help - quick help and long term help.

ps i feel that since most vathiars are hired only for certain times, seasons,perhaps they should consider seriously a second part time or flexible job to augment their income. is that feasible? what time of job functions in india are that flexible for part time flex time? thank you.

 

[sangom]

Dear Shri Kunjuppu,

Let me first of all say that I don’t seem to have missed your line of thoughts and arguments. I only feel that there can be an attitudinal change while dealing with the case of the less well-off tambrams. Also, your impressions do not probably reflect the actual situation from place to place in TN, Kerala – about which I have some knowledge.

Since I do not have any reliable data about the percentages, I do not want to make any comment on the 27 percent which you have assumed. The yardstick which I generally use to measure poverty is the comparative lifestyles of the middle classes in the tambram community in an area, say like TNLY town and the nearby city as a whole plus the adjacent Palayamkottai, Nagercoil-Kanyakumari area, Trivandrum city and surrounding rural areas with a tambram presence, etc., and those who lead a life comparatively worse than these middle classes. Chennai is of course a very large area with very large number of tambrams.

We are mot witnessing a typhoon-like phenomenon here, though you may feel that nearness to it might be harmful. But it is a more sober and less harmful social phenomenon. Hence the comparison, as the saying goes, looks odious to me. It is nearness that will give a better perspective.

If we are talking merely about poverty line and those below that level and are focussed on just pulling them up above the poverty line (This is the unstated objective of govt. programmes and once they get their statistics right, by hook or by crook, they are no longer bothered.) there need not be any discussion here at all. But in my view we should try to find methods to raise them up to the level of the majority of tambrams in the respective areas at least.

There are many families (and I am referring only to tambrams in this post and so I may not repeat it) who are earning just enough or sometimes even less than that, to meet the minimum expenses for food, rent and clothing for their families – the basic requirements. In such a condition it is difficult to envisage that their children can be sent to any higher education, except ITI, which, I understand is also not that cheap as to be afforded by these people. Secondly the girls may not be sent to such technical courses but take up jobs such as sales girls in shops (mostly saree shops); in this area there is unlimited cheap labour available from TN non-brahmin groups and the shop owners (of which only one or two are tambrams in TVPM) do prefer the girls from TN or Christian girls from Trichur area who are ready to work for Rs. 1000/= or so per month and the shop owners have their caste-cum-native place considerations. Please note that I am not saying that tambram girls are not willing to work for this salary; but the large shops prefer their own community, area, etc.

The next area is preparing sweetmeat, ‘bhakshanam’, etc., and selling it to shops, hotels and house-to-house sale. There are very large-scale units with all mechanized methods and few hands, turning out such items and selling to shops and outlets all over the district and nearby districts also through delivery vans and these are all NB undertakings situated in villages surrounding the city. Secondly, many families are doing this in a small scale for catering to the more orthodox among us, and hence the clientele will be limited and undercutting is also not unknown. Thus this activity also does not have any great scope. Like this we can go on analyzing.

But the essential difference between my outlook and what I think yours is (as far as I could understand from the many posts of yours) is that you tend to take a view that, there is no dearth of jobs; “getting job in Tamilnadu, Bangalore and north India is not at all difficult. But still there are people who have not developed any skills to get a proper employment. But they are small in number as compared to majority of our community members” and so
tend to dismiss it.

Respectfully I beg to differ from this. It is easy for me also to say this and feel that if some tambram has not come up in life then it is because he has not developed any skills and then feel a free conscience. I think that if you or I were born in exactly same circumstances of the unfortunate people, our fate would also have been the same. Because of luck whatever we did gave some favourable results and we were able to climb the steps but I hold that there are many who do not lack the will and effort, but get bogged down again and again.

You say that jobs are aplenty in Tamilnadu, Bangalore and North India. But is it possible for a man of 40 to 50 years to leave his family and then go in search of job to a city or another state? What about the expenses for himself as well as his family back home till he gets a job? Again what job?

Now, let us consider the youth instead of the family men. For example personal computer hardware/repair/assembly is a very popular area today. But you know the boys from poor families who spent money beyond their normal ability, get a diploma, and join the sales outlet of reputed computer mfrs. get a measly Rs.1000 to Rs.1500 per month (plus some petrol expenses based on actuals) and there is no increments/promotions, etc. How can a young fellow think of building his future based on such income especially when he has to supplement the income of his parents also?

My only submission is that poverty is not always necessarily due to one’s fault/s such as their reluctance to relocate to where jobs are there (not sure, again, it is what you say) and their not developing any skills. These may be very appropriate to the conditions in the country you live, though. I also have a feeling that whatever feedback you get is from the well-off sections of the tambrams. These people have a tendency to write off the less fortunate ones one count or another and not feel for them. I for one always feel that we should exhibit a little more humane attitude in at least treating them as subject matter of such discussions; ultimately our discussions will be of no use to those unfortunate people and won’t give even one morsel of food more to them. Let us at least go on record that we have a sympathetic attitude to them. Otherwise, as I had remarked elsewhere, this forum will look like “affluenttamilbrahmins.com”; you wanted to know what I meant by the word ‘affluent’ – it has its usual meaning viz., “financially well off”.

You mention about temple priests, gurukkal, bhattacharya in the rural areas, assistants to vadhyars, etc. Kindly tell me whether you feel that such avocations are not being filled because of shortage of people or the low earnings? For example, a person earning 1000 rupees per month as pujari in say, TNLY, will be able to supplement his income by other activities like assistant to vadhyar, people assembling at the time of death ceremonies to collect small “danams”, etc., but if he goes to a rural area with little or no brahmin population, he has lost not only the additional income but establishing in a new place, new accommodation, new schools for children which may not be as good as the one in the city, etc., will mean definite disadvantages.

I have no statistics of how the poor category (27 percent) is distributed between absolute hopeless cases, not interested, need skillsets and their income categories. But I feel determination of these percentages may have no relevance to forming our attitude towards them as a whole; can we not feel a bit more kind in considering them instead of summarily dismissing them as unworthy of any more attention because they could not be as successful as those who were and have come out of their poverty?

Nothing succeeds like success, perhaps!

 

[hoover]

is this discussion about how to earn?
temple priest or just priest is the last job i will refer to any brahmin. It is the profession which brought damnation to brahmin community. people easily say that look these pot ballie brahmin who just chanting mantras earn good sum. So there is not point in a profession which brings disgrace and cause of hatred. I will suggest being thief or racketiers to any brahmin than being a priest and facing eternal abuse by nbs.
the scope of this discussion must be focused to the question that as non dalit communities having good economic (which did not faced any social discrmination in past and most of them were rulers like yadav ) conditions are getting reservations, should brahmin also get that?.

 

[suresoo]

Dear Hoover,

the scope of this discussion must be focused to the question that as non dalit communities having good economic (which did not faced any social discrmination in past and most of them were rulers like yadav ) conditions are getting reservations, should brahmin also get that?.

Good Point.
It looks like, the greatest challenge a Poor Brahmin faces today in getting some help to uplift will
not come from Politicians / Government
but from elite Brahmins, who had climbed the ladder by some means and few who have no stake in the current system.

thanks,

 

[RVR]

Dear Sri Sangom and Sri Kunjuppu,

The figures which are mentioned in the discussion between you were given by me. They may not be absolutely correct and are based on my assessment only.

I wish both of you need not give too much importance to the above figures and let us all try to help the poor members of our community through this discussions.

Personally I have seen poorer sections in any society/community in the world including in the developed countries. In the developed countries mostly Government takes care of the poorer sections through social security schemes.

India has just introduced some social security schemes but already lot of corruption is going on. In the NRGEA scheme http://www.nrega.nic.in/netnrega/home.aspx already information is pouring in stating that muster roll scandals are going on. I am not sure if any tamil brahmin is availing benefits since it is mostly controlled by the ruling party people.

Under these circumstances, we have to ensure that poor members of our community are protected to some extent through the better off members of our community. Let us try to identify poorer sections of our community and also discuss through this forum, how best we can help them We can help them in getting gainful employments if they are physically fit and are willing to do work. We can even think of promoting self employment groups among our community members for producing Appalam, Pappadam, Karuvadam, Pickles and other ready to eat food items. There is tremendous demand for these products . We cannot do all these things under our trust as it is a pure charitable organisation and not a commercial venture. We can help our community members to form a separate business venture for the same and help them from sidelines only. We can take the help of marketing experts in our forum to sell the products. We can get the help of banking professionals in our forum to get some loans if required. Probably Auditors/legal experts can help in completing all the statutory formalities.

I wish including both of you, our senior members of this forum can advice the venture on perpetual basis.

Both of you are senior to me in both age and experience. I earnestly request both of you to sink small differences if any and contribute to the welfare of our community.

With best regards,

RVR

 

[sangom]

thank you sangom.

i am going to wait till i get further postings from others. we are looking at this issue from completely incompatible parameters.

one thing i wish to say is that, you are not fair, and you keep implying, that i have no sympathy. i am not going to tell you what i do for charity and it is none of anyone's business, and i don't feel the need to prove my bona fide. in that context, i find your tone very intrusive if you don't mind. at no time, have i every cast aspirations on your sincerety and i feel that it is not being reciprocated by you. that simply is not the way we have dealt with each other so far.

i find it even insulting about references 'affluentbrahmins.com'... sorry sir, i think politeness & manners, as i stated earlier, comes before opinions. please note the mission statement of this forum ie 'brahmin community spread across the globe'. i smell another thought, that nri indians 'keep out'. as KRS said very effectively in another thread, we will not be shut out by anyone other than praveen. . sarcasm, sometimes makes a good point, but in this case, i find it in bad taste.

if you feel close to tambram poor, and wish to take ownership of 'i know it all', well and then go ahead. i don't care. as far as i am concerned, i never claim that i am 100% owner of truth. i always live in a grey area, where truth is a often an enigma wrapped within human fallacies. always difficult if not impossible to unearth.

i have told you, in my post, that the data provided, came from someone in this forum, whom i have high regard, and i am sure you have the same regard for this person. i find that input much more relevant than vague comments about 'knowing' poverty. and citing instances.

thank you.

.

Dear Shri Kunjuppu,

I am very sad to note that when I try to answer your queries in the best way I can, you feel that I "imply" that you are not fair or sympathetic to the poor among the tambrams. My only suggestion was let us be a little more thoughtful in the way our ideas are presented so that an impression is not created that we
dismiss their case in a peremptory manner.

I am very sorry if my post has caused hurt to you and unconditionally apologize for it.

 

[sangom]

Dear Sri Sangom and Sri Kunjuppu,

The figures which are mentioned in the discussion between you were given by me. They may not be absolutely correct and are based on my assessment only.

I wish both of you need not give too much importance to the above figures and let us all try to help the poor members of our community through this discussions.

Personally I have seen poorer sections in any society/community in the world including in the developed countries. In the developed countries mostly Government takes care of the poorer sections through social security schemes.

India has just introduced some social security schemes but already lot of corruption is going on. In the NRGEA scheme Mahatma Gandhi National Rural Employment Gurantee Act already information is pouring in stating that muster roll scandals are going on. I am not sure if any tamil brahmin is availing benefits since it is mostly controlled by the ruling party people.

Under these circumstances, we have to ensure that poor members of our community are protected to some extent through the better off members of our community. Let us try to identify poorer sections of our community and also discuss through this forum, how best we can help them We can help them in getting gainful employments if they are physically fit and are willing do work. We can even think of promoting self employment groups among our community members for producing Appalam, Pappadam, Karuvadam, Pickles and other ready to eat food items. There is tremendous demand for these products . We cannot do all these things under our trust as it is a pure charitable organisation and not a commercial venture. We can help our community members to form a separate business venture for the same and help them from sidelines only. We can take the help of marketing experts in our forum to sell the products. We can get the help of banking professionals in our forum to get some loans if required. Probably Auditors/legal experts can help in completing all the statutory formalities.

I wish including both of you, our senior members of this forum can advice the venture on perpetual basis.

Both of you are senior to me in both age and experience. I earnestly request both of you to sink small differences if any and contribute to the welfare of our community.

With best regards,

RVR

Dear Shri RVR,

I also only wanted to say that we do not dismiss the case of the less fortunate tambrams in a statistical discussion and an advice that where there is a will, there is a way, etc.

Coming to appalam, pickles, vadam, etc., as you well know there are many giant undertakings in this business and the first difficulty is to get a market. I understand that Mambalam Iyers promoted by two women is doing very well there. I am told that its mfg unit is located away from the city and perhaps the locals and not tambrams get employed there. Perhaps you will be able to get more info. In the various towns and villages in TN as well as in TVM here the tambram households do this in a limited way amidst increasing competition and dwindling market because large scale mfrs have canvassed almost the entire market and even for rare items like "naartayelai podi". These units do not give opportunity for tambrams but they compete. In a daily consumption item like "sevai" once there were so many houses in TVM doing this. But now a few units have gone for mechanization and large scale production and have virtually displaced many houses doing this. The scenario is such, looking from here, that the know-how or recipe is no longer secret and there is cut throat competition. Hence the viability of a new unit has to be assessed first.

Perhaps we can think of individual houses mfg such items and centralized collection and marketing are done, like the lijjat papad.

 

[RVR]

Dear Shri RVR,

I also only wanted to say that we do not dismiss the case of the less fortunate tambrams in a statistical discussion and an advice that where there is a will, there is a way, etc.

Coming to appalam, pickles, vadam, etc., as you well know there are many giant undertakings in this business and the first difficulty is to get a market. I understand that Mambalam Iyers promoted by two women is doing very well there. I am told that its mfg unit is located away from the city and perhaps the locals and not tambrams get employed there. Perhaps you will be able to get more info. In the various towns and villages in TN as well as in TVM here the tambram households do this in a limited way amidst increasing competition and dwindling market because large scale mfrs have canvassed almost the entire market and even for rare items like "naartayelai podi". These units do not give opportunity for tambrams but they compete. In a daily consumption item like "sevai" once there were so many houses in TVM doing this. But now a few units have gone for mechanization and large scale production and have virtually displaced many houses doing this. The scenario is such, looking from here, that the know-how or recipe is no longer secret and there is cut throat competition. Hence the viability of a new unit has to be assessed first.

Perhaps we can think of individual houses mfg such items and centralized collection and marketing are done, like the lijjat papad.

Thanks for your advice Sir,

We have to think of an Independent commercial venture run professionally. We may have to create a brand for the products.

This morning I met a brahmin caterer and discussed about the above. He may be around 40 years of age and along with his wife, he runs the catering service professionally. His order books are always full. He charges reasonable rates and gives quality food. I am watching him for the past few years and his business is definitely growing.

I discussed with him about organizing poor people of our community for the proposed venture. He immediately offered to procure his requirements of all these items regularly and also promised introduce fellow caterers in Chennai for regular procurement.

It is too early to make any conclusions now but what I could see is a definite business opportunity for poor people of our community. We have to find an entrepreneur who can run the show professionally.

Let us hope for the best

 

[RKB]

The reason as to why the arguments do not subside is that all the arguments are right. Tamil Brahmins have immense scope for being well-off, predominantly by migration (and also other opportunities which someone mentioned as being thief and racketeering!), while simultaneously are getting depleted in Tamilnadu. Depletion has resulted in loosing the political advantage and slackening of muscle power in all walk of life here. There is no opportunity even in Private Sector here and becoming entrepreneurs in the business of pickles, appalams etc no more a viable option. NBs have already established well their brands and Iyengar Backery or Venkatnarayana Boli are all now products of Naadar corporations. A small and token help from a trust is not going to help any Brahmin to establish himself and odd Brahmin caterers like Subham (A powerful member of THAMBRAS) has seen that they cannot sustain by any exclusive Brahmin supply chain.

There can always be a trust to help the poor. But what we need is a better vehicle that will provide opportunities for Brahmin boys and girls coming out of their higher education. This vehicle should fund for establishing colleges, hospitals, industries etc with clear mission and vision. Just collecting the donations and disbursing it to applicants, though good, is not adequate. NRI and PIO Brahmins do lend to such trusts in a little way. But they have to take lead role in creating a vehicle that will deliver bigger ambitions. Most of these people have their property in India in locked/ under utilized condition or rented to NBs. The vehicle should facilitate these people to put to use their property for a better cause for the community. To establish such a powerful vehicle, we need political clout. Such a clout will come just by demanding Reservation not minding the depletion.

To put it simply, it is time that we strengthen our roots to ensure that it withstand the longer branches of migration. But I don't understand as to why those who say our community is prosperous community is endorsing for forming a trust that will help the poor? Prosperous community will prosper on its own in spite of the poor section in it. Only a depleting community will require an helping hand. It is therefore better for the trust members to not to suppress other ambitions of the community like Reservation. Our community requires correction in many dimension for strengthening its root now.

 

[suresoo]

When it comes to taking care of, most of us look at it as
Me, My family, My extended Family, My Clan, My community, My country and My world, Its like circle in a circle…..


When we are at the ‘My Community’ Circle, we should bury the little difference and work to keep the community in good health. This community has been passed on to us in some health, its our responsibility to pass the community to next generation in better health.


There are some, who may look at the world as one and only big circle, I’m sure their commitment to that belief will make them take all their yearly savings and pay as extra taxes.


thanks,

 

[Brahmanyan]

When it comes to taking care of, most of us look at it as
Me, My family, My extended Family, My Clan, My community, My country and My world, Its like circle in a circle…..


When we are at the ‘My Community’ Circle, we should bury the little difference and work to keep the community in good health. This community has been passed on to us in some health, its our responsibility to pass the community to next generation in better health.


There are some, who may look at the world as one and only big circle, I’m sure their commitment to that belief will make them take all their yearly savings and pay as extra taxes.


thanks,

Well said Sri "Suressoo",

What you are thinking is the "Ideal World" created to live happily, which is called Dharma (to uphold the values). But unfortunately in reality we have to face a different world of selfish interests. If we depart out of the way of dharma, many saviours appear now and then in the world to make "Course correction"..
Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[hoover]

If non dalit communities have reservations, then brahmin must have. atleast all open catagory must be reserved for those who write General catagory in their application for job, eduction.
Here is an dirty, brazen opportunism going on it is to write reserve catagory until result of exam and once it is out and sufficiant marks obtainde just jump to open catagory and vacate the post, seat for own catagory member.
General catagory must be reserved for the candidates who are general right from start. i.e. who have complete faith in their ability to compete with non reserved caste.
One member in another thread mentioned that other catagories are doing well than general catagory and winning seats of open catagory. If they really do that due to their ability. why they are not competing in just general catagory.
i.e. competing in exam with mental relief of assurance of a seat as requeird marks are always lower for other catagories than general. and if by luck got additional mark become general. a win win position.

 

[NSP]

Except the Parsis, other communities either have Reservation or fighting for one. Also the Parsis are International pets. Sindhis also are pets to Indian Government after partition. Also what is the use of the wealth that our community possess if it cannot bestow the right value system to our next generation in Tamilnadu.

chandru,

, the government can keep all the reservations to their pet communities. we can get ahead. just let us follow the examples of jains, gujjus, sindhis, parsis and become self reliant. the pen and brain is any day mightier than the brawn. let us use it to the maximum.

thank you.

 

[RKB]

Strange now that THAMBRAS has decided to support Caste based enumeration. The news report is not clear whether they are supporting the Centre enumeration or enumeration by the State government. The reason for their support is also not clear.

 

[hoover]

government of indias decision of caste census and full support of all parties to it is ratifiaction of views of our grat forefathers. In other parts of the world this segrgation was kept hidden and it inflicted vary inhuman persecution on the weaks. everyone including animals and trees have a place in indian sociey, it is not the case in other parts of the world. Caste system is vary badly used in india by politicians, and policy of reservations is the key to that politics.

 

[happyhindu]

government of indias decision of caste census and full support of all parties to it is ratifiaction of views of our grat forefathers. In other parts of the world this segrgation was kept hidden and it inflicted vary inhuman persecution on the weaks. everyone including animals and trees have a place in indian sociey, it is not the case in other parts of the world. Caste system is vary badly used in india by politicians, and policy of reservations is the key to that politics.

Dear Mr.Hoover,

In what manner is Government of India's decision of caste census a ratification of your great forefathers' views?

I look forward to your wise counsel.

Thankyou.

 

[hoover]

I think they are not your forefathers so you dont need to care about their views. You should care about views of your forefathers.

 

[Nara]

I think they are not your forefathers so you dont need to care about their views. You should care about views of your forefathers.

Ok Mr. Hoover, they are my forefathers, so I care. So, would you please let me know, in what manner is Government of India's decision of caste census a ratification of your great forefathers' views?

I know I will not get an answer, but just thought to ask, have a day ....

Thanks ...

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri hoover Ji,

I know Srimathi happyhindu ji as a committed Hindu. I assume you are a Hindu as well. If it is so, don't you think that yore 'great forefathers' are hers as well.

The type of response you have given seems unseemly! Just my opinion.

Regards,
KRS

 

[hoover]

like pakhtuns say that they ara pakhtun for last five thousand years and muslim for thousand years
I am a brahmin first and then anyone else, It is my first Idnetity, whatever miseries and perscecution it may bring to me. If someone is ashamed of their ancestry and in criticising mood, it is not mine but their own problem.
My last three generations didnt done anything wrong with anyone else, they were most humbele with everyone including innocent animals. they never took anyones fortune. instead that prefferd to remain in poor conditions. I am equally proud of my own generation which is working for grace of manking in most virtuous manner and abiding to law. so It is my duty to demand equal treatment and opportunity for my next generation. why they should get secondary treatment and opportunity? this is my question.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri hoover Ji,

Okay, good. You make lots of assumptions about your fellow Brahmins here in the Forum, who you think are ashamed of being 'Brahmins'. You say,

My last three generations didnt done anything wrong with anyone else, they were most humbele with everyone including innocent animals. they never took anyones fortune. instead that prefferd to remain in poor conditions. I am equally proud of my own generation which is working for grace of manking in most virtuous manner

Sir, I hope you understand that we Brahmins are ordained to be poor. That is called the Varna dharma. Secondly, you claim being 'virtuous' and apparently you are carrying the humbleness displayed by your last 3 elder generations (I wonder what came before that?). Does your virtuosity and humbleness, as a 'brahmin' include being rude to a fellow guest in this Forum?

Please answer this question first, before proceeding. Thanks.

Regards,
KRS

like pakhtuns say that they ara pakhtun for last five thousand years and muslim for thousand years
I am a brahmin first and then anyone else, It is my first Idnetity, whatever miseries and perscecution it may bring to me. If someone is ashamed of their ancestry and in criticising mood, it is not mine but their own problem.
My last three generations didnt done anything wrong with anyone else, they were most humbele with everyone including innocent animals. they never took anyones fortune. instead that prefferd to remain in poor conditions. I am equally proud of my own generation which is working for grace of manking in most virtuous manner and abiding to law. so It is my duty to demand equal treatment and opportunity for my next generation. why they should get secondary treatment and opportunity? this is my question.

 

[hoover]

what is rude in praising own forefathers. If someone is not sharing the same ancestry or just denying the gratness or deploring it then rudeness is just. I havent deplored anyone elses ancesters here why image of my forefathers is tarnished for just sake of someones ultra liberalism and void intellectualism. If somone wants to cry loudly let him cry. We cannot change realities on groud for response to crying of someone. Here Brahmin voice is becoming like 'Aranyarudan'.
I can understand what shivers it is sprading when someone is speaking clear truth without hesitation. they want to suppress all voices against them. here is a situation like Hitlor inviting Jews for negotiations of peace after holocaust. would/ should jews accet that?. answer is just NO. and so I think that proper answer is sufficiantly convened.