Shiva

[indianassault]

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What is the rationale behind reciting Om Namo Shivaya mantra? And what is the origin of Shiva?

Sadhguru JV asks his devotees to recite the Om Namo Shivaya only on the Shivarathri day. He says Shiva is the destroyer, hence to reach him you have to give up. He also says Shiva was a man and Adi-Yogi .

Can you also infer what he means?? I have never recited it and only comfortable with Vishnu sahasranamam.

 

[ashwin_ash]

What is the rationale behind reciting Om Namo Shivaya mantra? And what is the origin of Shiva?

Sadhguru JV asks his devotees to recite the Om Namo Shivaya only on the Shivarathri day. He says Shiva is the destroyer, hence to reach him you have to give up. He also says Shiva was a man and Adi-Yogi .

Can you also infer what he means?? I have never recited it and only comfortable with Vishnu sahasranamam.

Talking about JV, see post 1848 here- Sadhguru and the Isha Foundation in Kinda Big-Time Forum. Indian Express Oct 12 1997 report on what happened to JV's wife.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

What is the rationale behind reciting Om Namo Shivaya mantra? And what is the origin of Shiva?

Sadhguru JV asks his devotees to recite the Om Namo Shivaya only on the Shivarathri day. He says Shiva is the destroyer, hence to reach him you have to give up. He also says Shiva was a man and Adi-Yogi .

Can you also infer what he means?? I have never recited it and only comfortable with Vishnu sahasranamam.

Saivism is the oldest religion and the presiding deity is Lord Shiva, who, apart from father of
all Gods in Hinduism, including Vishnu, is taking care of all the activities.

The influence of Saivisim is spread in all religions, even in Vaishnavism. In Tamil Nadu, the
importance is given to Perumal as God and not God Men like Rama and Krishna.

While Vaishnavism is giving importance God Men and Idol worship, there is no human and idol
worship in Saivism.

Saivism is preaching Bhakthi and not Sringararasam, as in the case of Bhagavatham and Thiruppavai.

If you are a Vaishnavite, it is OK to recite Vishnu Sahasranamam. If you are a Saivite and
comfortable in Vishnu and his Puranams, then, you might have become a Pseudo Vaishnavite.
Of course, this is the condition of majority of Iyers in Tamil Nadu.

 

[vgane]

What is the rationale behind reciting Om Namo Shivaya mantra? And what is the origin of Shiva?

Sadhguru JV asks his devotees to recite the Om Namo Shivaya only on the Shivarathri day. He says Shiva is the destroyer, hence to reach him you have to give up. He also says Shiva was a man and Adi-Yogi .

Can you also infer what he means?? I have never recited it and only comfortable with Vishnu sahasranamam.

Read this interesting blog of Lord Shiva...As per this Lord Shiva was born more than 7000 years ago after the Rig Vedic period

Historical Background of Lord Shiva. | Sastha Prakash's Blog

quote

“From the very beginning, He was an omnipresent entity. Whenever, in the undeveloped and simple human society of those days, any need arose, Shiva was there to help; whenever any knotty problem developed, Shiva was there to solve it. “He [was] both severe and tender. He [was] tender, so naturally people love Him. Although He [was] severe, people still adore[d] Him, because underlying His apparent severity, there [was] tenderness. Thus the role of Shiva [was] predominantly the role of a promoter of welfare. So the first meaning of the term Shiva is ‘welfare’… [One] who looks upon everything with His special expression of sweet benevolence, who views everything with compassion.


“The second meaning of the term Shiva is ‘cognition in its zenith status’ – the zenith status of the Cognitive Principle, the Supreme Non-attributional Process, the Supreme Non-Attributional Entity beyond the faculties of all existential bondages.


“The third meaning is Sadáshiva, who was born into this world about seven thousand years ago – and who, by His holy birth, consecrated, as it were, each and every dust particle of this earth and utilized His whole life for the sole purpose of advancing the cause of universal welfare.


Unquote

 

[Vaagmi]

Saivism is the oldest religion and the presiding deity is Lord Shiva, who, apart from father of
all Gods in Hinduism, including Vishnu, is taking care of all the activities.

The influence of Saivisim is spread in all religions, even in Vaishnavism. In Tamil Nadu, the
importance is given to Perumal as God and not God Men like Rama and Krishna.

While Vaishnavism is giving importance God Men and Idol worship, there is no human and idol
worship in Saivism.

Saivism is preaching Bhakthi and not Sringararasam, as in the case of Bhagavatham and Thiruppavai.

If you are a Vaishnavite, it is OK to recite Vishnu Sahasranamam. If you are a Saivite and
comfortable in Vishnu and his Puranams, then, you might have become a Pseudo Vaishnavite.
Of course, this is the condition of majority of Iyers in Tamil Nadu.

Hi Chandru,

That was a nice attacking piece of a post.

Will you please answer these questions?

1."Saivism is the oldest religion"--On what basis do you claim this? Please give references.

2."Lord Shiva, who, apart from father of all Gods in Hinduism, including Vishnu, is taking care of all the activities". --again proof please. Where from did you get this info?

3."The influence of Saivisim is spread in all religions, even in Vaishnavism".--Please give specific instances where this influence is visible.

4."Saivism is preaching Bhakthi and not Sringararasam, as in the case of Bhagavatham and Thiruppavai".--Have you read Soundharya Lahari? What is lahari? Is that a vaishnavite literature? And what do you understand by sringararasam?

If you do not answer these I will take your post as a blabbering.

 

[renuka]

What is the rationale behind reciting Om Namo Shivaya mantra? And what is the origin of Shiva?

Sadhguru JV asks his devotees to recite the Om Namo Shivaya only on the Shivarathri day. He says Shiva is the destroyer, hence to reach him you have to give up. He also says Shiva was a man and Adi-Yogi .

Can you also infer what he means?? I have never recited it and only comfortable with Vishnu sahasranamam.

Dear Indiaassault,

Somehow Lord Shiva has the macho look which other forms of Divinities lack.

When I was child I used to be so mesmerized by the image of Lord Shiva..totally in love with His good looks.

Even now I still like Lord Shiva songs much better than any other songs..it has a nice beat...somewhat soul string passion that makes you want to get up and dance to it.


Shiva Tandava Stotram is master piece..I can totally imagine Ravana's emotions and feelings when he composed Shiva Tandava Stotram.

Most of Vaishnava bhajans tend to have a too claming effect ..not that much to my liking.....So whatever said and done LORD SHIVA RULES!

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Hi Chandru,

That was a nice attacking piece of a post.

Will you please answer these questions?

1."Saivism is the oldest religion"--On what basis do you claim this? Please give references.

2."Lord Shiva, who, apart from father of all Gods in Hinduism, including Vishnu, is taking care of all the activities". --again proof please. Where from did you get this info?

3."The influence of Saivisim is spread in all religions, even in Vaishnavism".--Please give specific instances where this influence is visible.

4."Saivism is preaching Bhakthi and not Sringararasam, as in the case of Bhagavatham and Thiruppavai".--Have you read Soundharya Lahari? What is lahari? Is that a vaishnavite literature? And what do you understand by sringararasam?

If you do not answer these I will take your post as a blabbering.

As per Brahmakumaris interview in the TV, Saivism is the oldest.

As per Saiva Siddhanta, Lord Shiva is the Supreme God. There is a story: When there was a
debate on who is superior between Vishnu and Brahma, they sought reply from Lord Shiva. He asked Vishnu and Brahma to see his feet and head respectively and who achieved the mission
first is superior between the two. Vishnu had taken the form pig and has been drilling the earth
to see Shiva's feet. It is said still he is drilling.

In the North, Vaishanavite worship relates to God Men like Rama and Krishna. Only in Tamil
Nadu, Vaishanavites worship relates to God.

Did Soundharya Lahari discuss about Lord Shiva? I have no idea about it.

Sringararasam is about the intimacy of man and woman.

All Krishna related subjects are invariably giving importance to the above.

Take the case of Meera. She was a married woman. But she left her husband to marry Krishna.
Is it correct? What we preach: "KALLANALUM KAVANAN PULLANUM PURUSHAN".

If you still have any doubt, we may hand over the Saivite and Vaishnavite works to a genuine
rationalist and let him give his opinion.

 

[Vaagmi]

As per Brahmakumaris interview in the TV, Saivism is the oldest.

As per Saiva Siddhanta, Lord Shiva is the Supreme God. There is a story: When there was a
debate on who is superior between Vishnu and Brahma, they sought reply from Lord Shiva. He asked Vishnu and Brahma to see his feet and head respectively and who achieved the mission
first is superior between the two. Vishnu had taken the form pig and has been drilling the earth
to see Shiva's feet. It is said still he is drilling.

In the North, Vaishanavite worship relates to God Men like Rama and Krishna. Only in Tamil
Nadu, Vaishanavites worship relates to God.

Did Soundharya Lahari discuss about Lord Shiva? I have no idea about it.

Sringararasam is about the intimacy of man and woman.

All Krishna related subjects are invariably giving importance to the above.

Take the case of Meera. She was a married woman. But she left her husband to marry Krishna.
Is it correct? What we preach: "KALLANALUM KAVANAN PULLANUM PURUSHAN".

If you still have any doubt, we may hand over the Saivite and Vaishnavite works to a genuine
rationalist and let him give his opinion.

Thank you for the reply. Over to in-house rationalists.

 

[indianassault]

Talking about JV, see post 1848 here- Sadhguru and the Isha Foundation in Kinda Big-Time Forum. Indian Express Oct 12 1997 report on what happened to JV's wife.

. Enlightening article..Thanks for sharing..

 

[prasad1]

I am by birth a smartha, so my upbringing is of smarthas. Our kulaguru happens to Venkatajalapathi. My uncles all use Namam, and everybody in my family has Vaisnav names.

I my self is more of Kabir panthy, and Advaita philosophy. So Murty pooja is not something I cling on to. I do not follow any organized religion, or Godman/godwomen.

I do not understand why we have to convince others about the greatness of my belief over some one else's belief. Why can we not accept the cafeteria mode, all the philosophies, and religious practice are spread out in giant buffet style there is one price for all you can pick (your life). Pick your plate and fill with any combination of beliefs, try it, if you do not like it, go back and try something different. Why fight over what you picked is better or worse. If you do not know your taste, you might get swayed by what others are eating.

There is nothing wrong in learning from some one else. May it be Sai, JV, chinmayananda, your parents, or even from this forum.

 

[biswa]

Let us say one divides the circumference of a circle into 3 parts. Can one say which part of the circle is superior to the others? That's how I view the Hindu trinity. Together they comprise the circle of life (of the universe).

 

[tks]

Thank you for the reply. Over to in-house rationalists.

I do not have a label hopefully including 'in house rationalists' ... As a casual reader post #7 and others like that come across to me as confused and not worth an effort to make a so called rational response ..

 

[prasad1]

It always surprises me that grown people indulge in this school boy contest of who can piss farthest, in religion. That too purely to insult or put down others. None of us seen God, we all have theories about religions, there is no physical evidence of presence or absence of god. So this idle dialogue about the nature, color, form, or formlessness is purely hypothetical.

If I have belief it is not going to changed by someone else making some outlandish claim about their belief that too on an internet chat room.

The op by indianassaultji was purely an intellectual query, if you have answers it might help him, if not they can reject it.

Indianassaultji,
What is that you achieve by chanting Vishnu Shasranamah, or Rama, Rama etc? What is the goal? Can you explain?

 

[கால பைரவன்]

What I see is a concerted effort to put down anything dear to Brahmins in particular and to Hindus in general under the garb of innocent queries. The forum, I understand, cannot put a stop to this without significantly restricting the freedom. Therefore if one feels slighted it is best to ignore, however difficult that might be. I have no doubt though that such constant slights to our gods and gurus will decrease the readership.

 

[prasad1]

Information available by googling:

Shiva (meaning "The Auspicious One"), also known as Parameshwara (the Supreme God), Mahadeva, Mahesh ("Great God") or Bholenath ("Simple Lord"), is a popular Hindu deity and considered as the Supreme God within Shaivism, one of the three most influential denominations in Hinduism. Shiva is regarded as one of the primary forms of God, such as one of the five primary forms of God in the Smarta tradition, and "the Destroyer" or "the Transformer" among the Trimurti, the Hindu Trinity of the primary aspects of the divine. Shiva is also regarded as the patron god of yoga and arts.


Shiva is usually worshiped in the aniconic form of Lingam. Shiva of the highest level is limitless, transcendent, unchanging and formless. However, Shiva also has many benevolent and fearsome forms. In benevolent aspects, he is depicted as an omniscient Yogi who lives an ascetic life on Mount Kailash, as well as a householder with wife Parvati and two sons, Ganesha and Kartikeya or as the Cosmic Dancer. In fierce aspects, he is often depicted slaying demons. The most recognizable iconographical attributes of the god are a third eye on his forehead, a snake around his neck, the crescent moon adorning and the river Ganga flowing from his matted hair, the trishula as his weapon and the damaru as his instrument.


Shiva as we know him today shares features with the Vedic god Rudra. Historians have also suggested that worship of Shiva existed in pre-Vedic times, but not all historians agree on this.


The Sanskrit word śaiva means "relating to the god Shiva", and this term is the Sanskrit name both for one of the principal sects of Hinduism and for a member of that sect. It is used as an adjective to characterize certain beliefs and practices, such as Shaivism. He is the oldest worshipped Lord of India.

Adi Sankara, in his interpretation of the name Shiva, the 27th and 600th name of Vishnu sahasranama, the thousand names of Vishnu interprets Shiva to have multiple meanings: "The Pure One", or "the One who is not affected by three Gunas of Prakrti (Sattva, Rajas, and Tamas)" or "the One who purifies everyone by the very utterance of His name." Swami Chinmayananda, in his translation of Vishnu sahasranama, further elaborates on that verse: Shiva means "the One who is eternally pure" or "the One who can never have any contamination of the imperfection of Rajas and Tamas".

Shiva - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[sangom]

What is the rationale behind reciting Om Namo Shivaya mantra? And what is the origin of Shiva?

Sadhguru JV asks his devotees to recite the Om Namo Shivaya only on the Shivarathri day. He says Shiva is the destroyer, hence to reach him you have to give up. He also says Shiva was a man and Adi-Yogi .

Can you also infer what he means?? I have never recited it and only comfortable with Vishnu sahasranamam.

Shri Indianassault,

I think the correct mantra is "Om nama: Sivaaya" which becomes 'Om namassivaaya' according to sanskrit grammar. This literally means - Om, the holy syllable which usually precedes all auspicious utterances : nama:=prostration/s unto : Sivaaya = Siva. (Sivaaya actually means for (the sake of) Siva, but that is the way such mantras are to be said in sanskrit; there is no practice of saying "to Siva".)

I do not have any great opinion of JV. He seems to have made it good after the death of his wife (about which there are serious doubts) and is now a globe-trotting, golf-playing jet-setting Guru who flies his own private jet!

I have seen my elders reciting the "Om namassivaaya" mantra regularly with neither any discernible bad effects nor any visible good results. If it gives mental happiness, then anyone may recite it, I feel.

 

[B V RAAGHAVAN]

Namaskarams,

Only in Tamil nadu we see the great divide as Saiva and Vaishnava. The vaishnavas never enter into Siva temples. But saivaites never have any reservations in entering into vishnu temples. Northern side both siva and vishnu are the one and the same. All the temples have both the deities. Though people wear the thripundram or oorthvapundram they both sit on single dais and discuss and live friendly. Please do'nt indulge into these unnecessary chit chatting. "Ariyum sivanum Onnu athai ariyadavan vaayil mannu".

Anbudan
Adiyen

 

[ashwin_ash]

Shri Indianassault,

I think the correct mantra is "Om nama: Sivaaya" which becomes 'Om namassivaaya' according to sanskrit grammar. This literally means - Om, the holy syllable which usually precedes all auspicious utterances : nama:=prostration/s unto : Sivaaya = Siva. (Sivaaya actually means for (the sake of) Siva, but that is the way such mantras are to be said in sanskrit; there is no practice of saying "to Siva".)

I do not have any great opinion of JV. He seems to have made it good after the death of his wife (about which there are serious doubts) and is now a globe-trotting, golf-playing jet-setting Guru who flies his own private jet!

I have seen my elders reciting the "Om namassivaaya" mantra regularly with neither any discernible bad effects nor any visible good results. If it gives mental happiness, then anyone may recite it, I feel.

Dear Sir,

To reiterate about JV and what he did to his wife, please see this post (see post 1848 here- Sadhguru and the Isha Foundation in Kinda Big-Time Forum. Indian Express Oct 12 1997 report) on what happened to JV's wife, which refers to an Indian Express article. His followers would like to have us believe that his wife attained "mahasamadhi". Rather, she was made to attain whatever samadhi!

Originally, Siva is supposed to be a formless pillar of light. The mantras such as Om NaMaSiVaYa were invented by the Vedic people later on. The Siva cult is largely atheistic, but given a twist by various religious interests. Kerala Iyers are followers of Saivism, which explains their lack of any particular interest in rituals such as 'Sandhyavandana' and so on. Even the sacred thread worn by many Kerala Iyers (those who choose to wear it) is mostly used as a back scratcher or a key hanger.

 

[prasad1]

Mr. Aswin_ash,

Kerala Iyers are followers of Saivism, which explains their lack of any particular interest in rituals such as 'Sandhyavandana' and so on. Even the sacred thread (those who choose to wear it) is mostly used as a back scratcher or a key hanger.

That is purely hearsay and hurtful. I am sure you are not an authority on religiosity of others, and probably you do not know how religious you are yourself.
The discussion about JV's wife or his personal habits does not belong in this thread.

 

[ashwin_ash]

Mr. Aswin_ash,


That is purely hearsay and hurtful. I am sure you are not an authority on religiosity of others, and probably you do not know how religious you are yourself.
The discussion about JV's wife or his personal habits does not belong in this thread.

Dear Mr Prasad,

I do not understand why you take things too personally and try to silence anything which you do not like. You seem to be completely against freedom of expression which is very frightening and dangerous. Your personal attacks on me, as illustrated below, are also not in the best of humor.

I am sure you are not an authority on religiosity of others, and probably you do not know how religious you are yourself.

Your views are yours, I have never commented on anything you said in this forum even though I may have disliked some of your posts. Mutual respect is a must in any civilized discourse. My views are mine, and I never mentioned your name or anyone else's names in any of my posts. I am also sure you are not a Kerala Iyer yourself, so you taking umbrage at an imaginary slight is mildly amusing. Sangom, being highly knowledgeable and erudite, knows quite a bit and some more about Kerala Iyers. I'm sure he'll be able to throw light on the community, and calm your (mis) apprehensions.

In fact, you trying to portray Siva as a Vaishnavite God might be extremely hurtful to the many Saivites here and elsewhere. This seems like an Iskcon interpretation of Siva as a demi-God.

interpretation of the name Shiva, the 27th and 600th name of Vishnu sahasranama, the thousand names of Vishnu interprets Shiva to have multiple meanings: "The Pure One", or "the One who is not affected by three Gunas of Prakrti (Sattva, Rajas, and Tamas)" or "the One who purifies everyone by the very utterance of His name." Swami Chinmayananda, in his translation of Vishnu sahasranama,

Had you quoted from the Saivagamas or the Siva Purana, it would have been fittingly appropriate.

 

[vgane]

Dear Ashwin,

Even when you laugh at your self, you can do it very subtly like this

Tambrahm Rage

When you are blunt, you may offend others even unknowingly

Have we not criticized KB and Kamal for being insensitive to Tambrahm feelings in this same forum!

 

[ashwin_ash]

Dear Ashwin,

Even when you laugh at your self, you can do it very subtly like this

Tambrahm Rage

When you are blunt, you may offend others even unknowingly

Have we not criticized KB and Kamal for being insensitive to Tambrahm feelings in this same forum!

Dear Sir,

Where does it say that Tambrams have to always be hyper-sensitive about even harmless stuff? This, coupled with an unwillingness to move with the times, can give other communities a handy stick to beat Tambrams with.

 

[prasad1]

Dear Mr Prasad,

I do not understand why you take things too personally and try to silence anything which you do not like. You seem to be completely against freedom of expression which is very frightening and dangerous. Your personal attacks on me, as illustrated below, are also not in the best of humor.

I did not attack you, i only criticized your specific post. There is an understanding that you should not hurt the sentiments of followers of a guru. But in this thread about Shiva there is no need to go into personal habits of a third party.


Your views are yours, I have never commented on anything you said in this forum even though I may have disliked some of your posts. Mutual respect is a must in any civilized discourse. My views are mine, and I never mentioned your name or anyone else's names in any of my posts. I am also sure you are not a Kerala Iyer yourself, so you taking umbrage at an imaginary slight is mildly amusing. Sangom, being highly knowledgeable and erudite, knows quite a bit and some more about Kerala Iyers. I'm sure he'll be able to throw light on the community, and calm your (mis) apprehensions.

I am not against freedom of speech, but only for responsible speech. There is no need to insult a whole community in a GD thread. If you have a joke that is a separate section for that. Even in that section I would not insult a group of people.
I do read your post and have even 'liked' some of them.
You can not shout 'Fire' in a crowded theater and claim that as freedom of speech.
I have family and friends who are Kerala Iyers, so I do have a responsibility to defend them. I do not have any family inJewish community, but i defended that community. Similarly I have Sikh friends and do not appreciate sikh jokes in mixed gatherings or this forum.

 

[ashwin_ash]

I am not against freedom of speech, but only for responsible speech. There is no need to insult a whole community in a GD thread. If you have a joke that is a separate section for that. Even in that section I would not insult a group of people.
I do read your post and have even 'liked' some of them.
You can not shout 'Fire' in a crowded theater and claim that as freedom of speech.
I have family and friends who are Kerala Iyers, so I do have a responsibility to defend them. I do not have any family inJewish community, but i defended that community. Similarly I have Sikh friends and do not appreciate sikh jokes in mixed gatherings or this forum.

Dear Sir,

I regret not understanding the import of your posts earlier. I hope people pass their postings by you, and post only after you explicitly approve each posting since you are the defender of all communities, in your own words.

 

[sangom]

Dear Sir,

To reiterate about JV and what he did to his wife, please see this post (see post 1848 here- Sadhguru and the Isha Foundation in Kinda Big-Time Forum. Indian Express Oct 12 1997 report) on what happened to JV's wife, which refers to an Indian Express article. His followers would like to have us believe that his wife attained "mahasamadhi". Rather, she was made to attain whatever samadhi!

Originally, Siva is supposed to be a formless pillar of light. The mantras such as Om NaMaSiVaYa were invented by the Vedic people later on. The Siva cult is largely atheistic, but given a twist by various religious interests. Kerala Iyers are followers of Saivism, which explains their lack of any particular interest in rituals such as 'Sandhyavandana' and so on. Even the sacred thread worn by many Kerala Iyers (those who choose to wear it) is mostly used as a back scratcher or a key hanger.

Dear Ashwin_ash,

To put first things first, since you are a quintessential Palghat Pattar, I concede that you have every right to comment on Kerala Iyers. I also agree with you that most Kerala Iyers were (conditions might have changed vastly now and I have not been moving around very much within Kerala for the last nearly twenty years) only superficially religious (more involved with their agrarian absentee-landlord ways) and very much unlike the TN tabras some 20 or 30 years ago. It is also true that many Kerala Iyers used to tie up keys in their "poonal" and for a scratching back, what better contraption than the poonal? Nowadays, of course, I find it insufficient and have purchased a 'back scratcher' made of plastic with a sufficiently long aluminium handle, made in...where else? China!

There is no God or deva named "Siva" in Rigveda; only Rudra is there and this rigvedic rudra is someone who is — a howling, crying, nomadic, fierce, dweller of the middle region (BhuvaH - this meant the mountain slopes of the Hindu Kush originally, in the early rigvedic period, and the Himalayas, later on (after the time the rik "imam me gange yamune sarasvati shutudristomagm sacataa parushniyaa...etc. was composed.) This rudra appears to have been "morphed" into the later Siva as and when the Aryans (i.e., the people who followed the rigveda as their holy compilation) came to know about the Saivism and the Tantric Saivism which was quite popular in the Kashmir region as also in Deccan. Hence we find the Satarudreeya or the more commonly called "sri rudram" in the Yajurveda.

This Siva was originally the supreme godhead of saivism and is still so; but the hindu purana-writers made siva as one of their Trinities, and as the Destroyer. The mischief lies in the various puranas and not in Saivism. Whether the puranas themselves were a handiwork of the newly emerging Vaishnava theology, I can't say, but may be it was.

Siva cult is different and a Tantric one which is very different from ordinary Saivism which most Kerala Iyers used to follow mainly, some 50 or 60 years ago. But of late there is a distinct leaning towards the vaishnavite deities and that is the main reason for the great popularity which we now witness for Guruvayur, Udupi, Bhagavatham, Narayaneeyam, etc. This current fashion trend seems to have marginalized Rama, Ramayana etc., among tabras at least. Saivism was not and is still not atheistic but it broadly eschews the emotional and erotic titillation quotients which Krishnabhakti, Rasaleela etc., attempt to import into religion.