simplify and cheapen the last rites

[Genuinely]

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Time has come for our community to simplify and cheapen the last rites. A close relative expired on Monday 7 Oct and the Vadhyar gave an estimate of Rs 1.10L. The family was poor and we had to fund the rites.
Yday, Ratan Tata was cremated, instead of being left to the vultures, Parsi last rites.
We hv to change and cheapen rites for the common man. The rich can anyways, glorify a birth or death.

Ramu...Mumbai
11 Oct 24. [email protected]

 

[tbs]

Time has come for our community to simplify and cheapen the last rites. A close relative expired on Monday 7 Oct and the Vadhyar gave an estimate of Rs 1.10L. The family was poor and we had to fund the rites.
Yday, Ratan Tata was cremated, instead of being left to the vultures, Parsi last rites.
We hv to change and cheapen rites for the common man. The rich can anyways, glorify a birth or death.

Ramu...Mumbai
11 Oct 24. [email protected]

hi
i agreed.....our matams can provide some suggestions/help for common poor people last rites....

 

[renuka]

hi
i agreed.....our matams can provide some suggestions/help for common poor people last rites....

Why not people learn how to do the rites themselves?
So they can cut down the need to be overdependant on a priest.

 

[tbs]

Why not people learn how to do the rites themselves?
So they can cut down the need to be overdependant on a priest.

hi
we have conservative and liberal brahmins in our community....so we have to depend on priest

only....antheshti/final rituals can't do themselves...even in USA....all final rituals has to depend on priest only..

just info ..i am attending final ritual in USA with the help of hindu priest.....priest community has to help

poor people with some considerations...this is my request...i have paid huge amount for my mother's last

rites and first year shradhaa in chennai.....i know the pain of kartha very well....even i want to simplify and

affordable for everyone.....big rich people case okay....not for poor .....

 

[CHANDRU1849]

If changes are brought at frequent intervals in the customs and conventions of brahmin community, the status would have been different now.

Tamil brahmin community has various sects, and within the sects, the economic status is not uniform, as in the case of Marwaris, Jains, Baniyas and of course Nadars.

The Purohits are dependant on Marriages and various rituals connected with final rites. They must be brought into the mainstream. For this we should explore the possibility of abolishing god-men concept.

Common code is the need of the hour.

Both Kalyanam and Karumadhi are costly affairs.

 

[renuka]

If changes are brought at frequent intervals in the customs and conventions of brahmin community, the status would have been different now.

Tamil brahmin community has various sects, and within the sects, the economic status is not uniform, as in the case of Marwaris, Jains, Baniyas and of course Nadars.

The Purohits are dependant on Marriages and various rituals connected with final rites. They must be brought into the mainstream. For this we should explore the possibility of abolishing god-men concept.

Common code is the need of the hour.

Both Kalyanam and Karumadhi are costly affairs.

What has God men got to do with priests over charging for final rites?

 

[Krishnan.vp]

I humbly believe that talking about simplifying last rites is ok in my world..

But talking about cheapening is a wholly different matter.

Please realise that the term EWS (Economically Weaker Sections not belonging to any other Caste Quotas) group is fundamentally for vadhyars and priests. They are called "Economilcally weaker' because they are unable to provide for their families. Although a few are an accepted exception... most are around the poverty line and it is common knowledge that gents of this category have difficultly finding brides because they are not financially viable agents in creating a family.

Given the above.. I would seriously rebuke the pension earning armchair seated highly educated brahmins and others from commenting on money earned by priests on kalyanam and karma kaaryam.

Basically.. I am saying STFU.

Yup. I am being rude. Because you are rude in commenting on the earnings of poor people.

Krishnan

 

[a-TB]

Here is a different take

First, complaining about Priest’s compensation is seen only among TB types. Priests also have a family and affected by inflation. They have aspirations.

No one including those that support ideas of Veda patashalas etc want to send their children to such places. Only the poor without many options go and study and try to earn a living. As a result there is a supply-demand issues allowing for some priests to charge way more especially if they are popular.

The real issue is the weakening of the society as a whole due to ignorance.

In a typical ritual the priests mumbles something without understanding though rare exceptions may exist. About 200 plus years ago there was emphasis on learning the meaning while chanting correctly. The patashalas of today emphasize on rote memorization which is fine as a starting point. But it stops there. Period

Sanskrit and grammar is not taught in Veda patashalas and teachers do not know rules by which applicable sutras that are limited by grand father clauses for Veda mantras.

I was told by a graduate of such patashala and an elderly scholar that today a graduating student at many patashalas may recite from any section taught, perfectly with right intonations. But upon receiving a certificate the student cannot write a signature for acceptance , Instead offering thumb imprint. This is sad

The audience and participants are clueless to know what the priest is mumbling in a ritual. Often the popular ones are politically savvy but know the least. Society is clueless

Now most rituals conducted by a properly trained priests which itself is a rarity at best recite five percent of Veda mantras. Another 30 percent of the ritual is driven by outdated smruthis

Then about 30 percent of ritual is made up by poorly constructed Sanskrit based on puranic stories.

Remaining is a bunch is blabbering based on some local traditions the priest is used to.

In USA many Kurukkals become vadhyar for money. Offer they chant some slokas regardless of what the ritual is. I have attended two such events.

Generally the shastras are replaced by blind superstition in the society. There is opposition to learning.

This is a crisis. But people need someone for marriage and death rituals. But they don’t want to pay becoming stingy while wasting money lavishly. No sympathy for the society’s state. Best is to pay up cheerfully.

Like a quack offering medical services in villages where there are no doctors these priests offer important service. Just pay up even to the quacks because if grads of Indian medical schools are making big bucks in other countries. Similarly most Brahmin caste is on the run to other countries to escape caste politics. A few unfortunate priests remain. So pay them well. They are generally poor

Or go and learn Vedas and try to fix the system

If death rituals are not done nothing will happen. The Garuda purana is a non veg purana meaning it is not authentic and very recent unlike say Vishnu purana which has deep significance.

Most likely this Garuda purana that has scared the living daylights out of Hindus and Brahmin caste in particular is probably resulted by influence by definition of hell etc in Christianity and Islam.

We have spiritualist that do not know basic Sanskrit and never studied Upanishad like Kathipanishad with Sankara Bhashya.

I have not but at least strived to listen to such scholars. Without any beliefs the Upanishad tells you not to fear about death. Just get rid of the body if there is no one. Offer some annadhanam in the name of the dead person for the sake of the kartha, not for the sake of the departed.

 

[Genuinely]

Time has come for our community to simplify and cheapen the last rites. A close relative expired on Monday 7 Oct and the Vadhyar gave an estimate of Rs 1.10L. The family was poor and we had to fund the rites.
Yday, Ratan Tata was cremated, instead of being left to the vultures, Parsi last rites.
We hv to change and cheapen rites for the common man. The rich can anyways, glorify a birth or death.

Ramu...Mumbai
11 Oct 24. [email protected]

I humbly believe that talking about simplifying last rites is ok in my world..

But talking about cheapening is a wholly different matter.

Please realise that the term EWS (Economically Weaker Sections not belonging to any other Caste Quotas) group is fundamentally for vadhyars and priests. They are called "Economilcally weaker' because they are unable to provide for their families. Although a few are an accepted exception... most are around the poverty line and it is common knowledge that gents of this category have difficultly finding brides because they are not financially viable agents in creating a family.

Given the above.. I would seriously rebuke the pension earning armchair seated highly educated brahmins and others from commenting on money earned by priests on kalyanam and karma kaaryam.

Basically.. I am saying STFU.

Yup. I am being rude. Because you are rude in commenting on the earnings of poor people.

Krishnan

How does a poor Brahmin pay the rich Brahmin priest for rituals?
So, we must hv a simple ritualThe poor shd not feel guilty, of not having done the rites, done by a rich person.
A death ritual is unlike a birthday ritual. Cannot be avoided or scaled down at my insistence. The poor wud think of after- life and punishments for not hvg completed the rituals, with gold and silver dhanams.
We need a protestant streak amidst us.

Ramu, Mumbai 20-Oct24
[email protected]

 

[tbs]

Here is a different take

First, complaining about Priest’s compensation is seen only among TB types. Priests also have a family and affected by inflation. They have aspirations.

No one including those that support ideas of Veda patashalas etc want to send their children to such places. Only the poor without many options go and study and try to earn a living. As a result there is a supply-demand issues allowing for some priests to charge way more especially if they are popular.

The real issue is the weakening of the society as a whole due to ignorance.

In a typical ritual the priests mumbles something without understanding though rare exceptions may exist. About 200 plus years ago there was emphasis on learning the meaning while chanting correctly. The patashalas of today emphasize on rote memorization which is fine as a starting point. But it stops there. Period

Sanskrit and grammar is not taught in Veda patashalas and teachers do not know rules by which applicable sutras that are limited by grand father clauses for Veda mantras.

I was told by a graduate of such patashala and an elderly scholar that today a graduating student at many patashalas may recite from any section taught, perfectly with right intonations. But upon receiving a certificate the student cannot write a signature for acceptance , Instead offering thumb imprint. This is sad

The audience and participants are clueless to know what the priest is mumbling in a ritual. Often the popular ones are politically savvy but know the least. Society is clueless

Now most rituals conducted by a properly trained priests which itself is a rarity at best recite five percent of Veda mantras. Another 30 percent of the ritual is driven by outdated smruthis

Then about 30 percent of ritual is made up by poorly constructed Sanskrit based on puranic stories.

Remaining is a bunch is blabbering based on some local traditions the priest is used to.

In USA many Kurukkals become vadhyar for money. Offer they chant some slokas regardless of what the ritual is. I have attended two such events.

Generally the shastras are replaced by blind superstition in the society. There is opposition to learning.

This is a crisis. But people need someone for marriage and death rituals. But they don’t want to pay becoming stingy while wasting money lavishly. No sympathy for the society’s state. Best is to pay up cheerfully.

Like a quack offering medical services in villages where there are no doctors these priests offer important service. Just pay up even to the quacks because if grads of Indian medical schools are making big bucks in other countries. Similarly most Brahmin caste is on the run to other countries to escape caste politics. A few unfortunate priests remain. So pay them well. They are generally poor

Or go and learn Vedas and try to fix the system

If death rituals are not done nothing will happen. The Garuda purana is a non veg purana meaning it is not authentic and very recent unlike say Vishnu purana which has deep significance.

Most likely this Garuda purana that has scared the living daylights out of Hindus and Brahmin caste in particular is probably resulted by influence by definition of hell etc in Christianity and Islam.

We have spiritualist that do not know basic Sanskrit and never studied Upanishad like Kathipanishad with Sankara Bhashya.

I have not but at least strived to listen to such scholars. Without any beliefs the Upanishad tells you not to fear about death. Just get rid of the body if there is no one. Offer some annadhanam in the name of the dead person for the sake of the kartha, not for the sake of the departed.

hi

just info..i studied in veda patashala and did 4 masters and ph.d in sanskrit.....here the question is...

not every priest qualified in ph.d in vedas......but a common man issue....ritual part ..many priests are

poor....if u understand bhagavad gita....death is journey of the soul.....no real rituals required for soul...

but as a kartha....some duty towards parents death......priests has to survive.....not too much ...

 

[CHANDRU1849]

What has God men got to do with priests over charging for final rites?

The Purohits are one way or other dependant on either Sankara Mutts, Jeer Mutts or other mutts created by individuals, as they will have to regularly participate in their day to day rituals. While the Sankara Mutts and Jeer Mutts may have some control, the individual mutts which earn sizeable money are patronizing and guiding them.

 

[a-TB]

How does a poor Brahmin pay the rich Brahmin priest for rituals?
So, we must hv a simple ritualThe poor shd not feel guilty, of not having done the rites, done by a rich person.
A death ritual is unlike a birthday ritual. Cannot be avoided or scaled down at my insistence. The poor wud think of after- life and punishments for not hvg completed the rituals, with gold and silver dhanams.
We need a protestant streak amidst us.

Ramu, Mumbai 20-Oct24
[email protected]

The Gods of Hinduism are rich man’s gods. Very poor cannot do Archana even.

Best is to educate oneself and do what is needed without feeling guilty and insecurity.

Most people who are lower middle class and above can afford to pay. It is just that they don’t want to. There is no need to do 13 days or even 5 days. Body cremation. Is important. Feed some people in the name of the departed. No issues. But superstitions will cost money. Know that priests mumble without knowing Sanskrit. They often cannot even say Rama Shabdam

 

[a-TB]

hi

just info..i studied in veda patashala and did 4 masters and ph.d in sanskrit.....here the question is...

not every priest qualified in ph.d in vedas......but a common man issue....ritual part ..many priests are

poor....if u understand bhagavad gita....death is journey of the soul.....no real rituals required for soul...

but as a kartha....some duty towards parents death......priests has to survive.....not too much ...

300 years ago Veda patashaka used to teach vyakaranam and Sanskrit. They taught them meanings beyond chanting. Today’s clientele is clueless.

There is a crisis even in understanding basics in study spiritual texts.

For example , Krishna in chapter two starts teaching saying that there is no birth or death. That is the highest teaching.

Yet he talks about rebirth. If there is no birth for you where is the question of rebirth In chapter 8 death is described as a journey.

It is a rarity to find people who has clarity of understanding the vision of Gita.

Most big name gurus and academicians make things up because they have not studied with someone who has studied Sankaran’s commentary assisted by proper tikas.

Great to know your academic achievements

 

[tbs]

300 years ago Veda patashaka used to teach vyakaranam and Sanskrit. They taught them meanings beyond chanting. Today’s clientele is clueless.

There is a crisis even in understanding basics in study spiritual texts.

For example , Krishna in chapter two starts teaching saying that there is no birth or death. That is the highest teaching.

Yet he talks about rebirth. If there is no birth for you where is the question of rebirth In chapter 8 death is described as a journey.

It is a rarity to find people who has clarity of understanding the vision of Gita.

Most big name gurus and academicians make things up because they have not studied with someone who has studied Sankaran’s commentary assisted by proper tikas.

Great to know your academic achievements

hi

even in veda patashala .nobody teach vyakarana or vedanta....they just learn veda mantras with swara....

they dont have to bhrama sutra sankara bhasya or bhamini tika od sankara bhashya....this is for

sanskrit scholars.....all sanskrit scholars are not veda pandits....they dont have learn upanishad bhashya/

bhagavad gita bhashya/bhrama sutra bhashya or sankara or ramanuja or madhva charya...

so now a days veda pandits are purohits doing karma kanda......not jnana kanda or spirualists..

 

[a-TB]

hi

even in veda patashala .nobody teach vyakarana or vedanta....they just learn veda mantras with swara....

they dont have to bhrama sutra sankara bhasya or bhamini tika od sankara bhashya....this is for

sanskrit scholars.....all sanskrit scholars are not veda pandits....they dont have learn upanishad bhashya/

bhagavad gita bhashya/bhrama sutra bhashya or sankara or ramanuja or madhva charya...

so now a days veda pandits are purohits doing karma kanda......not jnana kanda or spirualists..

Veda patashala teaches karma kanda and upasana. The idea that they will teach Vedanta does not arise because it is opposed to the earlier section of the veda

But teaching the meanings and enough Sanskrit in these payashalas was about 250 to 300 years earlier. I know this from someone that hails in that kind of family

There are few teachers of Veda in USA who I know teach chanting with meaning. I met someone who studied like this for 10 years

The Sanskrit and Vedanta scholars as in universities and some of the Sankara mutt may be well versed but they remain ignorant in life because Vedanta is about life and these scholars by and large ( with some exceptions) tend to have theoretical and conceptual ideas.

It is like a travel agent talking about how to plan to hike and scale a mountain but has never even been on a plane

The crisis in Vedanta teaching and among self proclaimed experts is that they never had studied from the source and often make things up. This is the age of misinformation.

Someone says Gita is a religious text. It is not. Its teachings are applicable to all human beings and it is taught and not preached.
Message of Buddha , Sankara , Christ , Krishna at its core are the same.

Death rituals are expensive because people are insecure. Getting right message is hard due to misinformation. Scholars of Vedanta are conceptual people even more insecure. And priests are often fake and some who have put the time for years in Veda patashalas only know how chant mostly Smruthis without knowing the meaning. Superstition is rampant. All this is a crisis and cost of death rituals is but one small symptom