Smartas, Are we Shaivaites/Shaktas in disguise?

[s007bala]

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re

Please do not twist my posts. This thread is not about Adi Sankara. This is about Smarta religion. I have made repeated mention of the contribution of Adi Sankara and the Sankara Maths in the development of the Smarta religion.

Please quote the text where Adi Sankara has made use of the term Sanatana Dharma. I would like to post it in the ISKCON forums where Adi Sankara is attacked viciously in the name of Sanatana Dharma.

I am not twisting anything N....and for god's sake stop this penchant about thread topics..you have some serious problem.Why do you assume that i am in martial mode with you or am i assuming?????

Adi-Sankara is the big honcho for all our hindu brothers and sisters,who follow advaitha school of philosophy.Now ISKCON is totally a different school of philosophy.They even say Vishnu is below Krishna,now that is something i cannot accept nor will i accept,becoz i am brainwashed with bhakthi that vishnu incarnated as krishna and not vice versa.

To point out such anamolies to ISKCONITES,is a futile exercise.So,i don't even indulge debating with them.As for quotations from the past,you are on your own,becoz its total waste of time to preach to ISKCON about our sampradayas.

sb

 

[malgova.mango]

kamakoti.org - may have

You can ask help form chennaites to buy and send you the book as parcel.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

I think I owe an apology. Somehow I had taken this thread for Smartah Sampradhaya thread.

The Smartha religion is all because of Adi Sankara and the Sankara Maths.

I quote from my original post in the other thread.

I do not know how many of you are aware of the titles of the Matathipathi of Sankara Matams. These titles are recited by people who consider the Sankaracharya as their personal Guru.

Shad Dharsana sthanapachaya

Sankyathraya prithipadaka

Vaidhika Marga Pravarthaka

A sloka

Sasthram sarira Mimansa devasthu Parameswara
Acharya Sankaracharya santhu me janma janmani

Why did the Smartas do it? Tamil Smartas always talk about Shanmadham, but not about Shad Dharshana.

The basic idea of Smarta religion was to reestablish Vaidic practices. Vedas are non-sectarian unlike the Puranas. There are verses in praise of all Gods. Indra, Varuna, and other Vaidic Gods. Then we have Rudraprasna, Narayana Suktham and Sri Suktham among others. In these verses the god to whom the verses are addressed is considered the Supreme God. Again the Vaidic practices are basically from Karma Kanda and follow Uttara Mimansa. Advaita is Gnana Kanda. Then Yoga has become a part and parcel of Hinduism. Sankhya is the basic philosophy of the Sakthas.

You can not bring about a unity among different sects or revive the Vaidic practices without bring together the six systems of Philosophy.

Most of us follow the Sankara Mathas without really understanding the religion that they preach. It is not necessary for every one. Only when you are on the spiritual path full time, you need an understanding of the intricacies of our religion. You need to know this to understand the Acharya's advice.

Sadasiva pararambam
Sankaracharya Madhyamam
Asmadh Acharya paryantham
Vande Guru parambaram.

 

[s007bala]

re

Most of us follow the Sankara Mathas without really understanding the religion that they preach. It is not necessary for every one. Only when you are on the spiritual path full time, you need an understanding of the intricacies of our religion. You need to know this to understand the Acharya's advice.

religion is now called as hinduism.but each math has a sampradayam which distinguishes them.sanathana dharma encompasses all religions in the world as literally it means eternal living principles.each achaaryal has his owm measurement of testing shisya,which is vastly different from each sampradayams,isn't it?

smarthas also have so many sects.in karnataka there are many,in tamizh nadu there are so many,in kerala,in andhra........and so on in northern,eastern,westerns areas of india...now globally within 50 states of usa,we have our distinct practices....in fact hawaii shaiva siddhantha temple and their gurujis are just awesome.. http://www.himalayanacademy.com

sb

 

[S.SIVARAMAN]

Smartas

I was told that Smartas are generally worship god mainly by performing yagams, and Homams. Idol worship is secondary to them or do not prefer it. Where as Saivaites and Vishnavites are those mainly who worship Idols of Siva & Vishnu respectively. Is there any mention about this in agamas if any.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Saiva Siddhanta are NOT Smarthas. In fact they are the major Saivite sect in Tamil Nadu. Their Adheenams are well known.

Had there been some communication and cooperation between the Adheenams and the Sankara maths, things would have been totally different. In my village the Saiva Vellala Pillais are the majority community. Because of centuries of understanding and mutual respect between them and the Brahmins, there is no anti Brahmin sentiment in the village.

Smartas do elaborate Pujas. Have you not heard the term Panchyathana Puja? It is only the blessed who have seen Paramacharya doing Chandra Mouliswara Puja. There are very few Brahmins who do not do a Puja in the house. Puja articles are the most treasured possession of any Smarta Brahmin.

Yet another fallacy about Smartas.

 

[pbkhema]

This thread is getting mixed up with the other thread.
Smartas are those who follow the philosophy of Adi Sankara.
Adi Sankara though a propounderof Advaitic Phi;osophy he also introduced Sanatana Darama and Panchyathana Puja.But Puja is nit a must,But a Smarta is to remember he is also a Brahmin and follow the scriptural rules.

 

[rakeshinnovation]

ISKCON Recently my visit to Bangalore ISKCON had a bang on them. one senior prabhu of theirs asked you follow sankara I said oh yes with pleasure, his question, sankara does not know hari bhakti, I asked him you should be a fool to tell this, dont you know bhaja govindam only sankara can write that, Shakti is another form of Vishnu and Vishnu another form of Shakti, in Sri Vidya Ganapati is known as incarnation of Vishnu because he wanted to get the love of Devi like a mother, and if you observer mantra sastra maha ganapathi's wife is maha lakshmi, now about krishna , krishna was into sri vidya from a rishi, there is not even a single great mahatma in India who have not received sri vidya thats the beauty of it, without shakti no siva, he only becomes sava corpse, so all these so called ISKCON and other neo-bhakti wallas need to wake up, even meera bhai and kabeer, kabeer's son mansoor have received sri vidya, shakti upasana method, vaishnaviste tantric scriptures are also there where they also do sri chakra aaradhana.

regards,
rakesh

 

[DURGADASAN]

Dear all

To my knowledge, there is no need for "Shakthism" as a separate religion like saivism and vaishnavism. To everyone, the tree is very well visible, but noone can see the roots holding that big tree. Like wise, only the shakthism is holding both the saivism and vaishnavism according to me. Like the roots invisible to normal eyes, though form the base, it is also informal.

Without shakthi lord shiva will be a shava. The case is very well applicable to even vishnu also. All the names of vishnu starts with the prefix "Shri". How he will be complete without the "Shri"? So shakthi (like in today homes) acts very strongly but the recognition she gets was not at all sufficient to what it actually works out.

Jai matha.

Pranams

 

[kahanam]

http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l499/kahanam/th_adi-sankara.jpg?t=1290753323
Sadasiva pararambam
Sankaracharya Madhyamam
Asmadh Acharya paryantham
Vande Guru parambaram.

Adi Sankaracharya is Shanmathasthapanacharya covering Ganapatyam(Pillaiyaar), Kaumaram(Murugan), Saivam(Sivan or Easwaran), Vaishnavam(Vishnu or Perumal),
Sakhtham(Parashakthi) and Sauram(Suryan). He also propounded Advaita(Monism) as the means to do well in Sanatana Dharma and attain the Ultimate, Moksha or Oneness with God. Advaita existed even earlier to him.Smarthas are what we are. We follow him and we are just led by him and his teachings and slokas on all deities.All deities are myriad manifestations of the Single One, Parabrahman , GOD!

 

[[email protected]]

To Durga Dashan sir, Every one require Sakthi to live. The Sakthi is energy that 's why our Hinduism gives a prominent place to Sakthi. The heat in our body is also sakthi. s.r.k.

 

[Iyyarooraan]

Unity or Diversity

The status of Brahmins calls for thinking in oneness in spite of myopic ideas thrown by different faiths, customs and sampradAyams. Christianity was born where it was required; Islam was born where it was required. Problems arise when each of their followers thrust on others the opinion that their highest originators were ignorant of others practising their own religion in their own way. Sarva deva namaskAraha Keshavam pratigachchati is not an invitation to drive wedge between people. There are people who almost suggest that the 'socalled' Shaivites or SmArthas should not go to Tirupati or Sri Rangam though they may be vociferous in denying that. SmarthAs should not do sandhyavandanam because it has only all Vishnu names! What is in name? RamAcharya has become Ramaswamy and then Ramesh and further may be Ram and it will suffer further in text messages. This Forum provides platform for egoistic people where I find people quoting devil itself; we have only heard of devil quoting the scriptures. Faith is only a faith. All egos will go into the black hole. Why not we dedicate ourselves to reduce each others problems. Very recently at the time when history was itself ocurring, Indira Gandhi's Times Capsule was reported to contain all lies. Now we thrive in talking about things of millenniums before. I doubt History is a sought after subject except by a few 'animals'.

 

[happyhindu]

The status of Brahmins calls for thinking in oneness in spite of myopic ideas thrown by different faiths, customs and sampradAyams. Christianity was born where it was required; Islam was born where it was required. Problems arise when each of their followers thrust on others the opinion that their highest originators were ignorant of others practising their own religion in their own way. Sarva deva namaskAraha Keshavam pratigachchati is not an invitation to drive wedge between people. There are people who almost suggest that the 'socalled' Shaivites or SmArthas should not go to Tirupati or Sri Rangam though they may be vociferous in denying that. SmarthAs should not do sandhyavandanam because it has only all Vishnu names! What is in name? RamAcharya has become Ramaswamy and then Ramesh and further may be Ram and it will suffer further in text messages. This Forum provides platform for egoistic people where I find people quoting devil itself; we have only heard of devil quoting the scriptures. Faith is only a faith. All egos will go into the black hole. Why not we dedicate ourselves to reduce each others problems. Very recently at the time when history was itself ocurring, Indira Gandhi's Times Capsule was reported to contain all lies. Now we thrive in talking about things of millenniums before. I doubt History is a sought after subject except by a few 'animals'.

Unfortunately Sir, what we call hinduism today did not exist in the past. Even Shakta worship can be called a different religion unto itself. Saivas and Vaishnavas did not see eye to eye on faith matters. Practices varied widely.

In some books, some strict Shaiva groups are noted as people who did not even take the name of Govinda on their lips. And all the different "religions" within hindusim had their own priests / brahmins / shamans, etc. And sir unfortunately all of this does happen to be "history".

Solving difficulties of others is always welcome. No sane person can tolerate scenes of poverty. Poverty must go. In whatever way poverty is addressed, it is always welcome and so is reaching out to people in any form for rendering assistance. This however does not mean people must stop discussing or reading history.

Name calling and whitewashing things we do not like to hear as "lies" is like burying our own head in the sand. It does not behoove well of us. If we are not honest with our history someone else will be.

If those who seek history are animals, then everyone working in museams are animals. And so are people working in all associated fields like humanities.

Next time you go to a museum and see an intriguing exhibit then think of the person who put it up as an "animal" or a "devil". Sad really sir....Very sad to see the level of intolerance amongst elderly people....

Regards.

 

[Mahadevasharma]

I thought this thread has been silent for close to two years but, i was really surprised at the direction it has taken from where it began. I would like to say that we should not forget history or the scriptures because they are important to understand how times have changed. Is something good or not is decided by the mano dharma a person acquires over a period of time by seeing and learning how to look within oneself. Many rituals are irrelevent and even absurd in different time periods. A profession system created for classifying different groups of teachers, soldiers,tradesmen, and service personnel has become badly interpreted as a caste system and that too by birth. To get all previlages and no responsibilities is not only detrimental to society but goes against the very creed of the brahmin. When it is time to move on, it becomes the responsibility of the teachers to write new curriculum after considered what is the puslse of the student and the society, instead if one inserts a few lines for selfish benefit, everyone including the children of the teacher would suffer. We all think little about tommorow because we were someone else yesterday.

Adi Sankara established the shan matha system based on advaita philosophy as the foundation. Be it any form of matha sampradaya, It is welcomed in hindu philosophy. What i am going to say forth as an example could be considered as an extreme example, but, i see if fit to impress upon the shortsighted view taken by many Hindus,especially brahmins( especially is put there because it is a brahmin's responsibility to brahmagnana for loka samasta sukino bhavanthu and samasta sanmangalani santu). Personally, I am of the opinion that the smarta tradition if followed in its true form would really produce more Mahanubhavas for the long due renaissance of the Hindu philosophy and hinduism in itself. If someone is able to produce the prasthana trayi for Christinaity or even islam confroming to the same standards as set by the vedas, It would have become a hindu subsect like shaiva or vaishnava.
It is but a pity that in the past 3 to 4 centuries how many new brahmasutras were written on the new forms of beliefs and practices, I am afraid i have not heard of even on hindu scholar writing a new prastanatrayi for the introduction of change in the belief systems that are modernized. Being a Brahmin, it is important that we encourage such thoughts and actions for a better future. I might be going overboard here but it is a honest thought from a simple brahmin still believing in the mahatattva of Hinduism.

 

[sarma-61]

I thought this thread has been silent for close to two years but, i was really surprised at the direction it has taken from where it began. I would like to say that we should not forget history or the scriptures because they are important to understand how times have changed. Is something good or not is decided by the mano dharma a person acquires over a period of time by seeing and learning how to look within oneself. Many rituals are irrelevent and even absurd in different time periods. A profession system created for classifying different groups of teachers, soldiers,tradesmen, and service personnel has become badly interpreted as a caste system and that too by birth. To get all previlages and no responsibilities is not only detrimental to society but goes against the very creed of the brahmin. When it is time to move on, it becomes the responsibility of the teachers to write new curriculum after considered what is the puslse of the student and the society, instead if one inserts a few lines for selfish benefit, everyone including the children of the teacher would suffer. We all think little about tommorow because we were someone else yesterday.

Adi Sankara established the shan matha system based on advaita philosophy as the foundation. Be it any form of matha sampradaya, It is welcomed in hindu philosophy. What i am going to say forth as an example could be considered as an extreme example, but, i see if fit to impress upon the shortsighted view taken by many Hindus,especially brahmins( especially is put there because it is a brahmin's responsibility to brahmagnana for loka samasta sukino bhavanthu and samasta sanmangalani santu). Personally, I am of the opinion that the smarta tradition if followed in its true form would really produce more Mahanubhavas for the long due renaissance of the Hindu philosophy and hinduism in itself. If someone is able to produce the prasthana trayi for Christinaity or even islam confroming to the same standards as set by the vedas, It would have become a hindu subsect like shaiva or vaishnava.
It is but a pity that in the past 3 to 4 centuries how many new brahmasutras were written on the new forms of beliefs and practices, I am afraid i have not heard of even on hindu scholar writing a new prastanatrayi for the introduction of change in the belief systems that are modernized. Being a Brahmin, it is important that we encourage such thoughts and actions for a better future. I might be going overboard here but it is a honest thought from a simple brahmin still believing in the mahatattva of Hinduism.

Shri Mahadevasharma Sir,

I don't know much about hinduism. but what you say confuses me. you say "It is but a pity that in the past 3 to 4 centuries how many new brahmasutras were written on the new forms of beliefs and practices" but it looks like there is only one brahmasutra (BS) and many people have written commentaries on it and that is how we got advaita, visishtadvaita, etc. if i am right BS, gita and some important upanishads are what is called "prastanatrayi". So, hindu philosophy has not really moved forward. it is grinding the same flour again and again (arachcha maavaiye araickaratu). womenfolk say if we do like that the paste will become poison. may be that is what has happened with our philosophy also, is it not?

if my understanding is correct, shan matha system has nothing to do with advaita. it is simply put worshipping so six gods as equals. the sankara biography says there were very bad systems of worshipping kali, siva, etc., and Sankara refined and polished these to make the shan matha system. so, smartas worship all the six gods. thus they can be saiva, sakta etc., simultaneously.

But, for world progress i feel the thumb rule is "less of religion, more of progress". i read in web that in europe and all common people just do not believe christ was real person, many do not go to church and mind their business. they obey laws. indians are good in temple-going, bhajans, and what not just so that they can impress god and get good certificate from him, go to heaven. but they will not keep the roads and public places clean, and lot of corruption-a share is given to god also. some member wrote about ramadas who used nizam's money to build rama temple and rama saved him. if our god approves corruption and indiscipline, how will people improve. that is why i say less of all this religion, more good will come.

but i also know people here won't like to hear these. anyway, these are my views.

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Dear Shri.Sarma-61,
I enjoy your posts.You are calling a 'spade' as 'spade without sugar quoting'
It was me who wrote about Ramadoss.He did not use Nizam's money.He was 'Thasildar' or so.He utilised tax collections from general public for making 'Gold Ornaments' to LORD RAMA.He was expected to credit revenue collections to Government Treasury but did not.
It was PANDIT Madan Mohan Malaviya who utilised Nizam's money for construction of Benarus Hindu University(BHU).The story often told is that Pandit MMM approached NIZAM for monetary help.Nizam threw one of his chappals at MMM.He collected the chappal and was trying to auction the same.When Nizam came to know about this, he sent his men to bid and bring back the Chappal.
I am not sure about the real story in both the cases.What I heard or read I am reproducing.
We all agree that our Religion requires reforms to bring unity among all followers of Hindu way of life to suit the present day life. But this may be possible only with our reasoning or arguments(in a POLITE and polished way) without hurting others sentiments.

 

[Mahadevasharma]

My humble clarification and further views

Shri Sharma-61,
Thanks for responding and I respect your views and concerns and i shall try now to clarify by explaining my reasoning behind the parts that were not clear.
First of all you are absolutely correct in your view of stagnation(aracha maavaiye araickarathu) which i agree with whole heartedly. The Brahma sutram is a text written on the the different vedanta text in an attempt to compile and connect them though logical segways and is the logic component of the prastanatrayi drawing upon the different upanishads and the gita and to an extent explaining certain sections of it. While it is considered as an early text used by philosophers of the vedanta school, no one seems to have taken it one step ahead and tried writing a new Brahmasutra( A new logical treatise of the vedanta philosophy itself). This was the underlying reason for my expression on no new Brahma sutras written ever since the last Brahma sutras and i correct myself: not since 4 centuries ago but since the time of the first Brahma sutras which i would consider as the real aracha maavu becoming poison.

I would like to respectfully disagree with you in terms of the establishment of the Shan matha system. You are correct in stating historically that Sankara refined and polished the violent forms of practices such as the kapalika system that existed during his times to establish the Shan matha system. However, where i beg to differ is that advaita connection with the Shan matha system. The six practices of Shaivam, Vaishnavam, Shaktham, Souram, Koumaram, Gaanapathyam were refined and reestablished by Sankara by applying the advaita philosophy as the foundation. This can be seen through the differences in the philosophical foundation of Shaiva, Vaishnava, and Shaktha practices that pre-existed the time of Sankara.

My grievance as i had expressed still remains, why does not someone write a new Brahma sutra which is where i agree with you in less religion more progress. composition of new Brahma sutras is great progress. If a Brahma sutra is written then so many bhashyas could originate from new Sankaras, Madhvas, Ramanujas which could guide the contemporary world of today liberate itself into progress through new practices that are more relevant and pragmatic. belief in god of not, the practices were not created to hold humans down but to help them channelize their lives towards ethical progress to greater achievement. God is what we make god to be, religion is supposed to be a way of life fr good and not what it has come to be defined as now.

One small side note rama devotees might be offended, but i need to say this. I think the words "deivam manushya rupena" along with "God resides in each and everyone of us" should be kept in mind when you hear "God Rama disguised as a messenger came to the nizam's court and repaid all the money that ramadasa has misappropriated and saved him." Could it be that it was a good hearted human friend of ramadasa who remains anonymous and gave the credit to "Virtuous Ramachandramurthi". Instead of making an example of human freindship, the portrayal of god being merciful was reinforced.

My further view on this in general.

Nirguna brahman in God, Saguna brahman in human. when one can be all one can be, why should one think about nothing ness in this life. (manathai madhathaal katti manavathuvam valarka vendumeyozhiya madha unmatham valarpathu mahamadathanam).

Again, Loka samastha sukino bhavanthu| Samastha sanmangalani santhu|.


Mahadevasharma.

Shri Mahadevasharma Sir,

I don't know much about hinduism. but what you say confuses me. you say "It is but a pity that in the past 3 to 4 centuries how many new brahmasutras were written on the new forms of beliefs and practices" but it looks like there is only one brahmasutra (BS) and many people have written commentaries on it and that is how we got advaita, visishtadvaita, etc. if i am right BS, gita and some important upanishads are what is called "prastanatrayi". So, hindu philosophy has not really moved forward. it is grinding the same flour again and again (arachcha maavaiye araickaratu). womenfolk say if we do like that the paste will become poison. may be that is what has happened with our philosophy also, is it not?

if my understanding is correct, shan matha system has nothing to do with advaita. it is simply put worshipping so six gods as equals. the sankara biography says there were very bad systems of worshipping kali, siva, etc., and Sankara refined and polished these to make the shan matha system. so, smartas worship all the six gods. thus they can be saiva, sakta etc., simultaneously.

But, for world progress i feel the thumb rule is "less of religion, more of progress". i read in web that in europe and all common people just do not believe christ was real person, many do not go to church and mind their business. they obey laws. indians are good in temple-going, bhajans, and what not just so that they can impress god and get good certificate from him, go to heaven. but they will not keep the roads and public places clean, and lot of corruption-a share is given to god also. some member wrote about ramadas who used nizam's money to build rama temple and rama saved him. if our god approves corruption and indiscipline, how will people improve. that is why i say less of all this religion, more good will come.

but i also know people here won't like to hear these. anyway, these are my views.

 

[sarma-61]

Dear Shri.Sarma-61,
I enjoy your posts.You are calling a 'spade' as 'spade without sugar quoting'
It was me who wrote about Ramadoss.He did not use Nizam's money.He was 'Thasildar' or so.He utilised tax collections from general public for making 'Gold Ornaments' to LORD RAMA.He was expected to credit revenue collections to Government Treasury but did not.
It was PANDIT Madan Mohan Malaviya who utilised Nizam's money for construction of Benarus Hindu University(BHU).The story often told is that Pandit MMM approached NIZAM for monetary help.Nizam threw one of his chappals at MMM.He collected the chappal and was trying to auction the same.When Nizam came to know about this, he sent his men to bid and bring back the Chappal.
I am not sure about the real story in both the cases.What I heard or read I am reproducing.
We all agree that our Religion requires reforms to bring unity among all followers of Hindu way of life to suit the present day life. But this may be possible only with our reasoning or arguments(in a POLITE and polished way) without hurting others sentiments.

Shri Krishnamurthy Sir,

Thank you for the stories about MMM and ramadas. what i heard from elders is that ramadas lived during some muslim's rule and used govt.'s money to build rama temple and ornaments and all such things. that is why i said nizam, in short way. even if revenue collections still it is govt's money, is it not?

I have not heard of nizam and MMM and bhu. i heard that the maharaja of kasi gave 5000 acres free and also huge amount. bhu campus is supposed to be largets in asia.

polite way is possible but truth hurts many. so polite and without hurting others sentiments will mean sacrifice truth. if my writing is not "polished" i am then sorry. i think you want me to stop writing truth and say only goody goody things. if that is so i will stop replying to your posts.

 

[sarma-61]

Shri Sharma-61,
Thanks for responding and I respect your views and concerns and i shall try now to clarify by explaining my reasoning behind the parts that were not clear.
First of all you are absolutely correct in your view of stagnation(aracha maavaiye araickarathu) which i agree with whole heartedly. The Brahma sutram is a text written on the the different vedanta text in an attempt to compile and connect them though logical segways and is the logic component of the prastanatrayi drawing upon the different upanishads and the gita and to an extent explaining certain sections of it. While it is considered as an early text used by philosophers of the vedanta school, no one seems to have taken it one step ahead and tried writing a new Brahmasutra( A new logical treatise of the vedanta philosophy itself). This was the underlying reason for my expression on no new Brahma sutras written ever since the last Brahma sutras and i correct myself: not since 4 centuries ago but since the time of the first Brahma sutras which i would consider as the real aracha maavu becoming poison.

I would like to respectfully disagree with you in terms of the establishment of the Shan matha system. You are correct in stating historically that Sankara refined and polished the violent forms of practices such as the kapalika system that existed during his times to establish the Shan matha system. However, where i beg to differ is that advaita connection with the Shan matha system. The six practices of Shaivam, Vaishnavam, Shaktham, Souram, Koumaram, Gaanapathyam were refined and reestablished by Sankara by applying the advaita philosophy as the foundation. This can be seen through the differences in the philosophical foundation of Shaiva, Vaishnava, and Shaktha practices that pre-existed the time of Sankara.

My grievance as i had expressed still remains, why does not someone write a new Brahma sutra which is where i agree with you in less religion more progress. composition of new Brahma sutras is great progress. If a Brahma sutra is written then so many bhashyas could originate from new Sankaras, Madhvas, Ramanujas which could guide the contemporary world of today liberate itself into progress through new practices that are more relevant and pragmatic. belief in god of not, the practices were not created to hold humans down but to help them channelize their lives towards ethical progress to greater achievement. God is what we make god to be, religion is supposed to be a way of life fr good and not what it has come to be defined as now.

One small side note rama devotees might be offended, but i need to say this. I think the words "deivam manushya rupena" along with "God resides in each and everyone of us" should be kept in mind when you hear "God Rama disguised as a messenger came to the nizam's court and repaid all the money that ramadasa has misappropriated and saved him." Could it be that it was a good hearted human friend of ramadasa who remains anonymous and gave the credit to "Virtuous Ramachandramurthi". Instead of making an example of human freindship, the portrayal of god being merciful was reinforced.

My further view on this in general.

Nirguna brahman in God, Saguna brahman in human. when one can be all one can be, why should one think about nothing ness in this life. (manathai madhathaal katti manavathuvam valarka vendumeyozhiya madha unmatham valarpathu mahamadathanam).

Again, Loka samastha sukino bhavanthu| Samastha sanmangalani santhu|.


Mahadevasharma.

Shri Mahadeva Sharma Sir,

I am happy you find my writing good. somebody said not polite, hurts others. but i don't intend to do so. i write what i feel is true and correct. excuse me if it is not 'polished' but i am not impolite, i feel.

i am also happy to see another member with views somewhat like me.

re. new bs, bhashyas, ramanuja, saankara, madhva, etc., i must say it is comical. pl. don't scold me. why shd we always want same thing to repeat? is one day like next-even sun changes position, is it not? my cousin when he was young boy wanted to eat lot of 'paayasam' but found difficult after some time but eager to drink more. so some elder told him to lick pickles so that he will be able to take little more. my cousin then onwards thought that without pickles he cannot eat paayaasam! your argument is just like that.

ok, there was a bs, a sankara, ramanuja, madhva, etc., bhashyas and all. but what use were they for betterment of common people, brahmins included? as they say "ettu churaikkaay karikku othavaathu". even priniting had not come. otherwise some publishers might have become rich. these things did not help in making people happy. they also failed when outsiders attacked. no use whether god is atma, not atma, somewhat atma, etc., discussion in difficult sanskrit when swords and guns come to 'debate'!

again less religion more "pozhakkara vazhiye paarkkal". that is what people perhaps do and that will create its own bs, bhashyam, etc.

all bhakti stories are misguiding. not only ramadas, what about ghorakumhar?

 

[rsnrishi]

Smartha = one who austerely follows Smrithi (codes framed and authorized from Sruthi i.e., vedam). Smarthas do follow that which is told in smrithi alone and have not established their own sampradaya apart from that. Smarthas need not have any "disguise". they have every freedom and rights to worship and respect any form. Ultimate is the Sun, but Smarthas never neglect its 7 colours. thank you.

 

[kahanam]

Smaarthaas are, as our Preceptor Adi Sankara Bhagavathpaadal has taught us, revere all the deities of ShaNmatha, Ganapathi. Karthikeyaa, Shakthi, Shiva, Vishnu and Surya equally and our NirguNa Brahmam is our ideal and shines as "I,I" in our hearts and many of us do not realise that!

 

[Iyyarooraan]

Yes sir. We go to Nagore, Vailankanni, Ajmer, Amritsar and place our mite contributions at all places. Tirupathi wealth has massive majority smaartha contributions and I doubt they would refuse to accept contributions from Smaartha. Unless you accept the omniform of the God, you are bound to be in confusion confounded by your ego

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

Sir:

My comments on some points :
1. Worshipping Divine Mother like Parvati , Lakshmi or Saraswathi ( by whatever name
called like Akhilandeswari, Sivakamasundari, Abhirami, Kamakshi and other names ) in the
temples does not mean 'Sakta worship'. That is totally different. SriVidya worship
will lead to Brahma vidya ultimately .
2. Smartas do worship Vishnu deities always. You can hear the chanting of Vishnu
Sahasranama and Bhajagovindam by almost all the smarthas.
3. sri Adi Sankara wrote his first bashyam on 'Vishnu Saharanama'.
4. You all might have heard his hymns Shatpadi stotram, Lakshminarasimha
karavalambana stotram, Lakshminarasimha stotram, Govindashtakam and others,
stressing of course the Advaita concept.

I can quote many more to stress the fact that iyers do worship Vishnu, Ambikai,
Suryan, Ganapathi, Murugan and Sivan.

I would like my friend who started this thread to study the introduction to Vishnu
Sahasranama bashyam of sri Adi Sankara and I am sure his doubts will be cleared.

 

[pviyer]

Invert this and true saivaites will say smarthas are vaishnavaites in disguise. Why?
1. Because smarthas recite akashat pathithamthoyam yatha gachathi sagaram sarva deva namskarah keshavam prathi gachathi
2. Because smarthas talk of reciting and writing rama nama not shiva name.
3. Vishnu sahasranam is popular not shiva sahasranamam
4. The common smarthas know more about krishna leels and ramayana than about shiva puranam and the stories of the alwars
Paramacharya says that this accusation was made on adi sankarar himself. Bottomline the bhasma dharanam is well explained by paramacharya. Lets leave it here, the discussion is just a rephrase of some silly accusations on smarthas and we know that the favorite deity varies from individual to individual. There are some who are devi worshippers more than anything else. where does that factor, anyone thought?