Talks on Islam

[vignesh2014]

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Thanks for the correction

 

[vignesh2014]

may be a reply like this would have been much better. In a Rajya sabhai King is the supreme...all are subjects only...that's why i'm not able to act ..Even pandavas were unable to do anything because they were slaves at that time.

But "PANCHALI SABADAM" by bharathiyar deferred because of the sabatham by bheema and arjuna and then draupadi. Here bhisma mana nilai was also told as "analil patta nei pola or puzhu pola" i don't remember exactly

 

[renuka]

may be a reply like this would have been much better. In a Rajya sabhai King is the supreme...all are subjects only...that's why i'm not able to act ..Even pandavas were unable to do anything because they were slaves at that time.

But I am sure if it was Kunti that was being disrobed the Pandavas would jumped and killed all the Kauravas there itself.

 

[renuka]

Bhishma, the terrible, is not to be lightly taken for his actions. I disagree with you here on the excuse part. I think that the answer he gave was wise and suitable for his line of thought. According to Bhishma, dharma is very subtle and hence there are many thin lines that one has to decide on, in pursuit of dharma.

I still disagree...Draupadi should have asked him 'If it was your mother being disrobed would have still stuck to "I ate food that was provided by the evil Duryodhana" theory and stood there doing nothing?"

That question would have been a hard hit for him to reply.

Till today I wonder how Draupadi could still stay with 5 useless men who could never defended her in her time of need..she should just ditched them all and walk off.

 

[vignesh2014]

Bhisma is one of the eight vasus. In that as a Vasu his name i'm not sure just like mahayasha he stole the cow of (that is kamadenu) from sage vashista due to his wife asking for milk for her friend's husband. All of the vasus collided and bhisma is the one (previous vasu) who stole the cow. That's why he was cursed not to have any contact with woman in this birth. He was born of Ganga who killed all severn children except bhishma. Since Krishna saved draupati from mana banga and bhisma very well knew that krishna will save her. Therefore as a devotee of krishna and give importance to lord krishna to save draupadi, may be bhishma might have kept quiet.

All these verses in vyasa "maha bharatha" may be latter commentaries. since itihasa means it happened like this , there may be many if's and buts but according to krishna gita we can say "ETHUNADANTHATHO ADHU NATAKKA VENDIYA MURAIYIL NADANTHATHU.." but now we are saying "ETHUNADANTHATHO ADHU NANRAKAVE NADANTHATHU". It is very difficult to say any reason for the things happened. Even vivekananda told that when we ask a hindu about karma theory how the very first birth would have occurred, he would straight way say " I don't know" since he is bold enough to accept the truth. therefore some of the things we have to accept the truth. I know that you yourself feel like draupadi like the way kulasekara azhwar learnt about rama's exile in the story. therefore when emotoinally seen , there are many faults in many puranas and itihasas and we don't know actually what is myth and what is reality in every story.

 

[tks]

LOL! Excuses yaar.....if there is a flaw in society...the problem needs to be addressed and not play the blame game and blame outside influence..that is just denial and not taking the responsibility of our actions.

We Hindus are famous for blame game sort of stories:

1)The story where a sage comes to a house to eat and he steals the silver plate and the next day it was found out that the meal he ate was cooked by a female thief..so becos of her so called stealing influence the sage succumb and stole the plate..what nonsense yaar? Blaming another person for our own actions? May be the sage should have just done some self introspection to find out if he still had some previous life vasanas that were showing up now. Image if all theives used this excuse in the court of law!LOL

2)Second story..even better..AJAMILA..he was the one who chased after the sex worker and married her had kids with her but all throughout the story the wife is blamed for his degradation..then since he called Narayana Narayana calling his son..that audio decibels matched the frequency for a Vishnu Dhoota to jump into action and Lo Behold Ajamila was saved!

Why no credit was giving to his wife who gave birth to a son whose name managed to save his father??LOL


3)Story number 3 ...BHISMA PITAMAHA!

When Draupadi was being disrobed he kept quiet and when on his dying bed of arrows she laughed at him cos he was preaching and she asked him how come all this wisdom did not ring a bell for him to help her when she was being disrobed?

His famous answer.."Oh at that time I ate food given by Duryodhana and that evil food clouded my intellect ..after having all blood drained off only now I am speaking Dharma"

What an excuse yaar...he could have at least apologized to her and regretted his actions and tell her that he was ashamed of himself that he did not do anything instead of blaming Duryodhana.


4)Final Story... From Kali Yuga:
Maybe the intolerance in Hindu society could have been a result of degradation of the system over years of Moslem and Jesuit invasion and oppression!LOL

1. Term Hindu given by outsiders to India comprise enormous diversity. While generalizations about any group is not wise, Hindus do not even comprise a group

2. Puranas and Itihasas ("as it happened") are not history documents. Our Hindu thinking is not history centric unlike the Biblical religions. This has huge consequences in avoiding major conflicts. Rajiv malhotra has done an excellent analysis in his blogs. To us if Sri Krishna turns out to be fictional imagination of a poet Vyasa nothing would change...

3. The stories of Puranas and Ithihasas are highly embellished which has made them interesting. The underlying significance of teaching has been lost with focus only on evolution of stories in many cases. They are not to taken literally like the Holy books of biblical religions.

4. There are many questionable actions noted in our Ithihasas (Ramayana, M.Bharahta) and they make us think.

5. No one I know with the Hindu tag that uses a story to be irresponsible. If blaming is something they do it has nothing to do with Puranic stories

6. Our reaction to the stories if we ever come across them reflect more of what we are about.

 

[renuka]

I know that you yourself feel like draupadi like the way kulasekara azhwar learnt about rama's exile in the story.

Nope...Its not having any emotional feeling when reading all these...I dont have such emotions when I read any story..when I read any story my mind goes into anaylsis mode and I started to wonder why and how these took place..so in such a mental mode emotions do not come into the picture.

 

[auh]

I still disagree...Draupadi should have asked him 'If it was your mother being disrobed would have still stuck to "I ate food that was provided by the evil Duryodhana" theory and stood there doing nothing?"

That question would have been a hard hit for him to reply.

Perhaps, in today's time, the question seems relevant. But, when an individual abides by Dharma, such questions may seems useless and rhetorical, imo.

Several points that goes against this hypothetical question:

1) It is not factual, for if we were to go by such fantastic hypothesis in our life it would lead us into a complex world of possibilities and more possibilities. No decision can be made.
2) Bhishma's mother is not Draupadi
3) Neither is the relationship between Bhishma-Bhisma's mother the same as that of Yudhishtra-Draupadi
4) Bhishma is not Yudhishtra and neither did he (Bhishma) gamble
5) Bhishma was bound by his responsibilities. The "I ate food..." theory is not simply the act of eating, rather it implies that he is bound to support those who have provided him support. In addition, if I am not mistaken, Bhishma had taken a vow that he would protect the heirs of Shantanu and Satyavati (and hence the throne). This would lead to him to cause to protech the royal family, which was then that of Dridrashtra (who took over the kingdome after Pandu's exile and death). It cannot be assumed that since he was silent on the issue, he did not have any voices on it inside.

Till today I wonder how Draupadi could still stay with 5 useless men who could never defended her in her time of need..she should just ditched them all and walk off.

Well, if you have decided that the Pandavas were useless then I am not one to want to change that opinion, but I do not think they were so.

As a king, Yudhishtra could not refuse a royal invitation and egged on by the heat of the game, he did what he did. It was probably, a last ditch effort to show his confidence in winning back what he lost; foolhardy, and perhaps his mind was clouded of its consequences.

 

[vgane]

The chimera of unity in Islam unveiled!

The lost moral of Islam?s divide  - The Hindu

 

[Naina_Marbus]

I found this interesting article, most likely it appeared in The Hindu dated July (21?), 1992, from one Muslim gentleman Wing Cdr. M. Sadatulla - an opinion piece - on what ails the muslim society.

 

[Naina_Marbus]

British jihadist warns of 'black flag of Islam' over Downing Street
A Briton who claims he has been fighting alongside jihadist militants in Syria has told the BBC he would not return to the UK until he could raise "the black flag of Islam" over Downing Street and Buckingham Palace.
British jihadist warns of 'black flag of Islam' over Downing Street | UK news | theguardian.com

This news item was carried by TOI but the link appears to have ben deleted. Error message 404 page not found.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...et-Buckingham-Palace/articleshow/37788237.cms

 

[vgane]

True face of Sunni Muslims getting revealed...Threats to non Muslims in Iraq

Iraqi Christians get Islamic State's warning -Convert or pay Tax

The Islamic State group has threatened Christians in the Iraqi city of Mosul with death if they do not convert to Islam or pay a tax, Al Jazeera has learned.


The Sunni rebel group issued the orders in a letter after Friday prayers. The document, obtained by Al Jazeera, states that the order was issued after Christian leaders failed to attend a meeting called by the group.


In response, the group says in the letter that Christians must either convert to Islam, pay a tax on non-Muslims known as jiziya, or give up their posessions and leave the city. Failure to do so would result in a death penalty, "as a last resort".


Mosul, Iraq's second largest city, was overrun by the Islamic State group and allied rebel groups last month

Iraq Christians get Islamic State's warning - Middle East - Al Jazeera English

 

[vignesh2014]

Why should sunny muslims do all these because westerners made their influence over their rulers through non-muslim wives like the way they did it in india through Mrs. Sonia gandhi. Anyway a threat or violence should not be supported on christians because here also christians fear because of BJP rule.

 

[biswa]

There is no way BJP will impose anything like the Jiziya tax.

 

[sarang]

Why, even vhp will not if it comes to power. No action, only words. What the communists and secularists have failed to understand is they will be the first to go. Hindus will fight. Before 2002, every ratyatra in ahmedabad was amidst three day curfew. Any appeasement is counter productive. Stern action on those causing trouble is the royal way.

There is no way BJP will impose anything like the Jiziya tax.

 

[[email protected]]

The issue of Islam or Christianity in our country is entirely different from other parts of the world. Here for some unexplained reason, the constitution framers ended up providing more rights to minorities than majority - it happened because of the excitement at that point in time. Had Muslim league participated in constituent assembly debates, they wouldn't had got this deal. When one talk about bangladesh, it a strong and decisive country unlike India. Bangladesh don't allow illegal guys to come into their country. 3 districts in Myanmar has a sizable muslim population and the government want them to leave (the reason they say, these people don't belong to this country). They further their objective and the Muslims there feel the heat. They run to Bangladesh but Bangladesh government is stern and have given strict instructions. Not allowed. Lakhs of them are holed up in the border. Bangladesh provide ration etc. under UN obligation to the minimum number (under charter). The balance is not their headache. Bangladesh says, if we end up taking care of them (giving food and shelter), these guys have nothing to do, the result will be a population boom. Bangladesh has officially stated "these guys are jumping over for economic benefits".

Many NGOs in the name of aid want to enter this crowd (they come to propagate their christian religion). Bangladesh government officially prohibited these guys (the developed christian nations will be read to feed them - but they will create one unwanted army in the process middle of Bangladesh and Myanmar !!! In a nutshell, this group is going to be India's headache. We never had any policy on anything and for appeasement, we close our eyes. In the last two years, a phenomenal number of these myanmar muslims are in Delhi city (the best is : Bangladesh stand is : these guys were taken by Britishers to Myanmar for plantation - so they went from India (at that time there was no bangladesh), so you are India's problem AND NOT OUR PROBLEM !!!! Someone spread rumour that India is generous and are doling out land for these people in Delhi. Who promised them this no one knows. Last year, these guys created havoc in upmarket Vasant Vihar (they occupied walking lanes with tents)

 

[vgane]

[h=1]Egypt's top religious authority condemns ISIS[/h] Reuters, Cairo

Tuesday, 12 August 2014


Egypt's top religious authority condemned the armed group Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS) which has taken over parts of Iraq and Syria, describing it on Tuesday as a corrupt, extremist organisation that is damaging Islam.


“An extremist and bloody group such as this poses a danger to Islam and Muslims, tarnishing its image as well as shedding blood and spreading corruption,” said Grand Mufti Shawqi Allam, Egypt's most influential Muslim cleric, the state news agency MENA reported.


The comments came as the Vatican called on Muslim religious leaders to take a “clear and courageous stance” and condemn “unspeakable criminal acts” by ISIS.
The grand mufti's view represents the opinion of Al Azhar, one of the world's oldest seats of Muslim learning, which influences the opinions of Muslims worldwide.


ISIS has declared a Muslim caliphate in the territory it has captured in Iraq and Syria. It sees all Shi'ite Muslims as heretics and boasted of killing hundreds of captive Shi'ite soldiers in June.


An Iraqi government minister said on Sunday that ISIS fighters had killed hundreds of Iraq's minority Yazidis, burying some alive and taking women as slaves.


In comments made during a visit by former Lebanese prime minister Fouad Siniora, Allam said ISIS's actions strengthened the hand of those who wanted to harm Islam.


“[They] give an opportunity for those who seek to harm us, to destroy us and interfere in our affairs with the [pretext of a] call to fight terrorism,” Allam said.
Last week, the United States bombed ISIS targets in northern Iraq, saying it was protecting the Kurdish autonomous region and trying to prevent what U.S. President Barack Obama called a potential genocide of religious minorities

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/New...-s-top-religious-authority-condemns-ISIS.html

 

[vgane]

ISIS brutally subdues rebellion in Syria, beheading and crucifying tribesmen who resisted their rule

Bassem Mroue, Associated Press | August 11, 2014

BEIRUT — Islamic militants have crushed a tribal uprising against their rule in eastern Syria after three days of clashes in a string of villages near the border with Iraq, beheading and crucifying opponents along the way, activists said Monday.
The fighters from the Al-Qaeda breakaway Islamic State group control huge swaths of territory in eastern and northern Syria and are fighting rival rebels, Kurdish militias and the Syrian army for more territory.


Meanwhile, at least 10 people including four children and two women were killed Monday when Syrian forces dropped explosives-filled barrels from a helicopter over the Bab Nayrab district of Aleppo in northern Syria, activists said. Many others were buried under the rubble of buildings, they said.



The Syrian army regularly dropped the so-called barrel bombs over populated areas in rebel-held territory. Aleppo, once Syria’s commercial capital, has seen heavy fighting since rebels seized part of the city in 2012.


The civil war in Syria, now in its fourth year, has continued to bleed while attention has shifted to conflicts in Gaza and Iraq. The Islamic State group — also known as Islamic State of Iraq and Al-Sham (ISIS) — which consists mainly of foreign fighters, has taken over much of northern and eastern Syria as well as western and northern Iraq.

The group has declared a self-styled caliphate in territory it controls along the Iraqi-Syrian border, imposing a harsh interpretation of Islamic law.


The armed revolt by the Shueitat tribe in the eastern province of Deir el-Zour was the first sign of local resistance by tribesmen to the Islamic State group since its fighters swept into the province.


The Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights and Turkey-based activist Thaer al-Deiri said Monday that Islamic State group fighters regained control of three villages from the Shueitat tribe after being expelled earlier this month.

Two men in the region were convicted of “dealing with apostates” and crucified by the militants, Reuters reported.


The Observatory said Islamic State fighters beheaded two tribesmen after they fled to the nearby village of Shaafa. It had no immediate word on other casualties in the area.


Clashes over the past two weeks left more than a dozen people dead and both sides.


The clashes in eastern Syria came as Islamic State fighters tightened their siege of a major military air base in the town of Tabqa in the northern province of Raqqa. The air base is the last army position in the Raqqa province that is an Islamic State stronghold.


The Observatory’s chief Rami Abdurrahman said the group was bombarding the base with artillery and appears to be preparing to storm it.


Last week, Islamic State fighters seized the nearby Brigade 93 base after days of heavy fighting. Late last month they captured another base in which they took dozens of prisoners, some of whom were later beheaded and their bodies paraded in one of Raqqa’s main squares.


Syria’s conflict began in March 2011 as a popular uprising against President Bashar Assad’s rule, but turned into an insurgency after government forces violently cracked down on demonstrators. It has since deteriorated into a civil war with sectarian overtones. Over 170,000 people have been killed in Syria in over three years of fighting, activists say.




ISIS brutally subdues rebellion in Syria, beheading and crucifying tribesmen who resisted their rule | National Post

 

[Naina_Marbus]

Britain gets a taste of ISIS.

London: In an attempt to enforce an ISIS-style interpretation of Islamic law, a group of extremists are allegedly cracking down on street parties in Britain by equating it to devil worship.
The extremists are trying to bully and intimidate British Muslims against music and dance.
According to a report in 'The Sunday Times', hardliners waved a "No music" banner and chanted "God is great" in Birmingham to disrupt festivities to mark the end of Ramadan.
They boasted about "stopping da filthy dancing" and have threatened to target other events.
Extremists objecting to these "Chaand Raat" festivities ? based on an Indian subcontinent tradition ? said they intervened at three separate locations across the city.
In London, extremists recently confronted women travelling to a family festival to celebrate the Bangladeshi new year and warned them it was "haram", or forbidden, for them to attend.
Others were told the BBC-sponsored event encouraged "sin", "fornication" and "drug-taking".
The intimidatory tactics appear to be inspired by ISIS, the terrorist group that now calls itself the Islamic State and has set up a self-declared caliphate across parts of Syria and Iraq.
Last week, a flag resembling that used by ISIS was flown over a housing estate in east London before being taken down by a nun.
"It's very alarming that UK-based extremists are now seeking to import an Isis-style interpretation of Islam and impose it on British citizens," said Ghaffar Hussain, the managing director of Quilliam, a counter-extremism think tank.
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"Banning music and dancing is completely unacceptable in a modern democracy and goes against all British values," he added.

UK gets a taste of ISIS

 

[auh]

I just shudder to think what it must have been like to live under the caliphate in the times of yore...