The most famous verse of Jayadeva Swami's Gita-Govindam

[JR]

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Whatever I have written is true. If you feel making a vaishnava work into perversion, then we had one vaishnava member (Shri Nara) who held the opinion that Radha-Krishna did not form part of vaishnava system since Radha's name is not mentioned in Bhagavata and other accepted vaishnava scriptures.

The fault is not mine but yours because it appears as though you are a blinkered vaishnavite who fears to see the realities behind religions.

Using "ban user" feature will depend on Shri Praveen. I only hope that he is not prodded into such an act.

When a Vaishnava opens a new thread on any Vaishnavite topic, it is to welcome "satsang". It need be indicated that it is common sense that any other user knows and behaves in correspondence with it. There is no point in disfiguring Vaishnava works in their own thread using terms such as "oral sex", "promoting tantric sex", "promoting social adharma", etc, when you have not in-depth analyzed the work and are just reporting on other reports!!

There are also reports that regard Gita Govindam as highly philosophical, showing the paramatman's longing for jeevatman who got lost in worldliness.

Anyway, these are not even the topic of the OP. If you think you have a legitimate "mission" to educate Vaishnavas of this forum about "realities of Vaishnavism", kindly do so in your own threads. Not on satsang threads in religion section.

 

[Vaagmi]

Now that this has happened despite Praveen saying that there will be penalties for people indulging in such antics, I reserve my right to bring here the kind of weird obnoxious rites that the "நாதன் உள்ளிருந்தால்........" crowd had been indulging in.

I will do that at the appropriate time at the appropriate context. Sri Sangom will be wholly responsible for that when it stinks.

A beetle drills a bore in a sandalwood tree and we have fragrance everywhere.

A worm in the sewerage gutter bores a hole in the muck and we hold our nose tight to escape the stink.

Arrows one, two and three. LOL.

 

[zebra16]

When a Vaishnava opens a new thread on any Vaishnavite topic, it is to welcome "satsang". It need be indicated that it is common sense that any other user knows and behaves in correspondence with it. There is no point in disfiguring Vaishnava works in their own thread using terms such as "oral sex", "promoting tantric sex", "promoting social adharma", etc, when you have not in-depth analyzed the work and are just reporting on other reports!!

There are also reports that regard Gita Govindam as highly philosophical, showing the paramatman's longing for jeevatman who got lost in worldliness.

Anyway, these are not even the topic of the OP. If you think you have a legitimate "mission" to educate Vaishnavas of this forum about "realities of Vaishnavism", kindly do so in your own threads. Not on satsang threads in religion section.

I think you are taking it too personally. If Gita Govindam is highly philosophical please do share the philosophy.

If there are any points to contradict Sri Sangom's in Brahma-vaivata purANa please do so.

May be you are unaware, this male-Radha issue was the talk of the whole country somewhere in 2005 and it was telecast
ad nauseam on all the TV channels during 2005 when the then Inspector General (IG) of Uttar Pradesh D.K. Panda claimed he was
re-incarnatation of Radha and started to come even to office dressed as a female and was being called Doosri Radha.

Here is the link to the You tube for it. : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56Zlwrzmd50.

Here is the link for google search for Doosri Radha : https://www.google.co.in/#q=doosri+radha

Religion does lead to excesses in some cases and there is nothing wrong it being brought to notice.

Your post it appears to me to be placing a sort of proprietorship over the thread and I do not think it is the intention of this forum owner.

Please pursue Bhaktli List of www.ramanuja.org and see for yourselves how the Gaudiyas are cut to size by the self professed ramanuja followers. You might not be aware of the schism prevailing among different branches of vaishnavites.

 

[mkrishna100]

Jayadeva's Ashtapadee describes this Radha-krishna relationship, which includes oral sex as also a scene in which Radha places her foot on krishna's head as part of their love-play. iskconites treasure all these stuff as the sure-shot guide to final liberation.

:rockon:

The ruler of Kalinga, in a subsequent period, proscribed Jayadeva and his work from his kingdom, because he felt Jayadeva was a threat to public morality.

So censorship was there even in the past

 

[tbs]

hi

some wants just propagate vaishnava bhakti through some threads....i dont think anything wrong with shri sangom ji's

explanation abt BRAHMAVIVARTANA PURANA,,,,in fact he was right....too much personification of radha/krishna by some

cults...in the name of bhakti...they are deviating sanatan dharma philosophy....like iskonites/gaudiyas are TANTRIC BHAKTI CULT...

 

[Vaagmi]

I think you are taking it too personally. If Gita Govindam is highly philosophical please do share the philosophy. If there are any points to contradict Sri Sangom's in Brahma-vaivata purANa please do so.
May be you are unaware, this male-Radha issue was the talk of the whole country somewhere in 2005 and it was telecast ad nauseam on all the TV channels during 2005 when the then Inspector General (IG) of Uttar Pradesh D.K. Panda claimed he was re-incarnatation of Radha and started to come even to office dressed as a female and was being called Doosri Radha.
Here is the link to the You tube for it. : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56Zlwrzmd50.
Here is the link for google search for Doosri Radha : https://www.google.co.in/#q=doosri+radha
Religion does lead to excesses in some cases and there is nothing wrong it being brought to notice.
Your post it appears to me to be placing a sort of proprietorship over the thread and I do not think it is the intention of this forum owner.
Please pursue Bhaktli List of www.ramanuja.org and see for yourselves how the Gaudiyas are cut to size by the self professed ramanuja followers. You might not be aware of the schism prevailing among different branches of vaishnavites.

If Sangom had said that religion does lead to excesses in some casess and had given the link to all that nonsense that is done in the name of religion by some extremist groups it would have been a balanced presentation. But he has praised Sivavakkiyar for his " நாதன் உள்ளிருந்தால்........." and more of his poetry in the same vein in very high decibels. When it comes to vaishnavism he chooses the dirtiest possible language and presents his story without ever mentioning that it is an excess as you have said.

Sivavaakkiyar and his ilk also have indulged in funny and repulsive forms of sexual exploits as part of the religion they practiced and preached. So every cult whether it is saivite, Agorys, sidhdhas, Kapalikas, or Gaudiyamutt followers have some dirty stories in their kits. When you choose one from the dirty crowd for deification and the other for bashing, your intentions become suspect. You lose your respect.

Simply put a Doosri Radha is a tolerable tom-foolery compared to an Agory doing a spinning exercise with a 2Kg block of stone tied and hanging from his p***s -all to practice extreme form of self restraint and tolerance to keep away from sex. If you are insistant, I can provide you with the link by PM-it would be too much to take here in the open by cultured members. Same way it is a tolerable form of tom foolery when compared with the kind of dirty exploit described about the Sivavaakkiyar crowd here --> http://sivavakiyar.blogspot.in. Please read particularly what Prof. Kamil V.Zvelabil has to say about some dirty rituals by Sidhdhars. And doosri Radha is nothing in today's world where same sex marriage is legal and is making headlines.

The number of links you have given will stand no comparison to the kind of extreme practices some of the "நாதன் உள்ளிருந்தால்......" crowd indulges in odd hours at the burial/cremation grounds smearing their body with the ash. I can give you many links which are just repulsive thanks to Google. But i do not because i have culture.

Sangom is biased. He oscillates between his pet dream of being a agnostic and his impossible-to-give-up umbilical chord relationship with the saivite cult. He normally operates in the agnostic wavelength. But given sufficient energy he jumps to the next orbit of cultic saivism and vigorously oscillates there. That is the problem.

There is a higher philosophy in the Ashtapati. But that requires sincere desire to know. It involves handholding and taking the seeker through a paradigm shift in the path of spiritualism. In this forum the atmosphere is already vitiated. Here it may invite only derisive laughter and name calling, discounting etc., So this is not the place to discuss that philosophy.

 

[krish44]

I do not fancy comments/stories running down either vaishnavite or saivite sects posted by some members.

One can refrain from that as it leads only to bad feelings between members.

This wonderful thread about jayadevas compositions has been damaged by a few posts .

 

[renuka]

Smt. Renuka ji,

"smara" as you know well, is the Imperative Mood, if we take it as the verbal form of स्मृ (Ist. Conjugation) instead of as denoting the kAmadEva. Then, smara garaLa khaNDanaM will mean, "Remember! the neutralisation of poison" and not as you say 'breaking the poison of remembrance'. For this meaning to be read, Jayadeva should have written स्मृति गरळ खण्डनं (smṛti garaḷa khaṇḍanaṃ), imho.

Dear Sangom ji,

Thanks for the grammar explanation and correction.

BTW it seems that poet Jayadev has "deviant" ideas of the love of Krishna and Radha if we take his works literally.

Sometimes the sexual union of male and female is like the union of Yin and Yang..Purusha and Prakirti and not fornication as commonly thought.

So I have no idea what was Jayadev writing about..was he having an overactive imagination or we should not take only the literal meaning?

If the meaning is taken literally...then surely he gives the Divine Love of Radha-Krishna a bad name.

I am reminded of a song "Shot through the heart and you're to blame..you give love a bad name!"

 

[sangom]

When a Vaishnava opens a new thread on any Vaishnavite topic, it is to welcome "satsang". It need be indicated that it is common sense that any other user knows and behaves in correspondence with it. There is no point in disfiguring Vaishnava works in their own thread using terms such as "oral sex", "promoting tantric sex", "promoting social adharma", etc, when you have not in-depth analyzed the work and are just reporting on other reports!!

There are also reports that regard Gita Govindam as highly philosophical, showing the paramatman's longing for jeevatman who got lost in worldliness.

Anyway, these are not even the topic of the OP. If you think you have a legitimate "mission" to educate Vaishnavas of this forum about "realities of Vaishnavism", kindly do so in your own threads. Not on satsang threads in religion section.

I also understand what is "satsang" and its supposed benefits as extolled by most faiths. But one cannot have a "satsang' based on anything under the sun; for example, is it possible to begin a 'satsang' based on some literary work which has several obnoxious facets in it? I don't think so.

You have opened some threads on non-vaishnava topics also. In those threads also I have given my views which might or might not have been to your liking. Similarly, there are threads on vaishnava-related topics on which I did not have anything to comment.

It should therefore be clear to any normal person that I have nothing against you or vaishnavam; and I view Saivam, vaishnavam, etc., as all cults which only gives people the euphoria of being highly religious and hence, as a self-induced corollary, the confidence that because one is highly religious (as per self-assessment), god also should be very pleased about him/her and hence should come to help in times of difficulties, etc.

I can only give the reference to the poem Abu Ben Adam (here) for such people!

Beyond this I have nothing more to educate anyone, saivite, smaartha or vaishnava.

Gitagovindam (GG) or Ashtapadee was not regarded as a sacred text, on par with, say, Bhagavadgita, by many smarthas till about 50 or 60 years ago. Even in the regular Saturday Bhajans, ashtapadee was not included. This could have been because of its (gitagovindam's) erotic content which could mislead ordinary persons' minds, though it might be of great help for very highly philosophical souls to trace out the Paramatman and join/fuse with IT in harmony.

My post under discussion is the 22nd. in this thread and it is in response to Smt. Renuka's post; of course, you have every right to intervene and give your dislike but, please note that I have not written my views in reply to your post.

I had tried to point out, indirectly, the in appropriateness of making Gita govindam as a focal point of discussing or extolling religion (by saying that only those who knew the Sandhyaa Bhaashaa can make a correct understanding of whatever is contained in GG) and even in the post under discussion, I have tried to do the same thing only. Besides, I have also tried to highlight what happened, historically, when those who could not get to the real meaning, started learning and understanding wrongly, tried to emulate the role of jivatmans!

Let me add that whenever a discussion has happened in this forum in the past, on GG as a great religious scripture, etc., I have written more or less the same views. If you make a search of the forum archives, you will get proof.

Last, but not least, does vaishnavam say that the Paramatman (Lord Vishnu) longs for the jeevatman which got lost in worldliness? If so how does this gel with the "markata nyaaya"? Not trying to discredit vaishnavam; just that I would like to be educated. Is Radha's name appearing in the Vishnu Puranam, Bhagavatham, Harivamsam or the Divya Prabandhams?

 

[sangom]

I think you are taking it too personally. If Gita Govindam is highly philosophical please do share the philosophy.

If there are any points to contradict Sri Sangom's in Brahma-vaivata purANa please do so.

May be you are unaware, this male-Radha issue was the talk of the whole country somewhere in 2005 and it was telecast
ad nauseam on all the TV channels during 2005 when the then Inspector General (IG) of Uttar Pradesh D.K. Panda claimed he was
re-incarnatation of Radha and started to come even to office dressed as a female and was being called Doosri Radha.

Here is the link to the You tube for it. : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56Zlwrzmd50.

Here is the link for google search for Doosri Radha : https://www.google.co.in/#q=doosri+radha

Religion does lead to excesses in some cases and there is nothing wrong it being brought to notice.

Your post it appears to me to be placing a sort of proprietorship over the thread and I do not think it is the intention of this forum owner.

Please pursue Bhaktli List of www.ramanuja.org and see for yourselves how the Gaudiyas are cut to size by the self professed ramanuja followers. You might not be aware of the schism prevailing among different branches of vaishnavites.

Well said and very timely, Shri Zebra!

 

[sangom]

Well said and very timely, Shri Zebra!

Here's the image, sir!

 

[sangom]

Dear Sangom ji,

Thanks for the grammar explanation and correction.

BTW it seems that poet Jayadev has "deviant" ideas of the love of Krishna and Radha if we take his works literally.

Sometimes the sexual union of male and female is like the union of Yin and Yang..Purusha and Prakirti and not fornication as commonly thought.

So I have no idea what was Jayadev writing about..was he having an overactive imagination or we should not take only the literal meaning?

If the meaning is taken literally...then surely he gives the Divine Love of Radha-Krishna a bad name.

I am reminded of a song "Shot through the heart and you're to blame..you give love a bad name!"

Smt. Renuka ji,

I cannot say whether Jayadeva had "deviant" ideas, etc. But one thing is certain and that is that he was a precursor of the Sahajiya cult which became very popular in later times.

For the 99.999999999999999999999999...% of humanity, sexual intercourse has nothing at all to do with Yin & Yang or Prakriti & Purusha, etc. That might have been one reason for the Samkhya Philosophy going out into oblivion in the course of time.

Gita Govindam (GG) is a profane text and that is why a researcher such as N.S.R. Ayyangar chose the title "Sacred Profanities" for his book on GG trying to extol the work. The only possibility I see is that Jayadeva could have given the hidden secrets of the Sahajiya Tantric Cult in this GG, but we, the ordinary people, should be careful in dabbling with this work and reading things like "Paramatman longing for the jivatman" etc. It will be like people abusing anti-biotics in India.

I also fail to understand how the character of Radha cropped up much later in time and a whole Purana was written to elevate Radha to the Supreme Godhead of the universe. That too when the society was wholly male-oriented!

 

[JR]

Namaste Shri. Sangom ji,

Please consider the following points:

1. From your authoritative calling of Jayadeva Swami's work as "sex literature", it still does not become clear whether you have, personally, read the whole text, tried to dwelve into philosophical meaning, and failed to conclude the nature of the work. It appears you have went through others' reports, rather extensively, and started agreeing upon them. This is not how one is supposed to appraise a work. I am writing so because so far in your writing in this thread, I have not read instances quoted by you justifying your stand. It only appears you have not read the text in-depth and in its entirety, but merely acting on reports on the text.

2. If you say, yes, you have personal and in-depth experience with the work, and you have concluded it is a 'sex work', then why open a can of worms in public? It is beyond the scope of both this thread and this section (Religion) to discuss it.

Thanks.

 

[sangom]

Namaste Shri. Sangom ji,

Please consider the following points:

1. From your authoritative calling of Jayadeva Swami's work as "sex literature", it still does not become clear whether you have, personally, read the whole text, tried to dwelve into philosophical meaning, and failed to conclude the nature of the work. It appears you have went through others' reports, rather extensively, and started agreeing upon them. This is not how one is supposed to appraise a work. I am writing so because so far in your writing in this thread, I have not read instances quoted by you justifying your stand. It only appears you have not read the text in-depth and in its entirety, but merely acting on reports on the text.

2. If you say, yes, you have personal and in-depth experience with the work, and you have concluded it is a 'sex work', then why open a can of worms in public? It is beyond the scope of both this thread and this section (Religion) to discuss it.

Thanks.

Smt JR ji,

I cannot claim that I have "in-depth experience" (I am not clear what you actually mean by this expression, first of all) with the Gita Govindam; but I have read it completely, at least the shorter version with the ashtapadees only (and not the longer version with the kaavya portion preceding each ashtapadee) and since the lyrics have many erotic words, I have tried to read and understand the meanings also.

In my view even if such an erotic text contains any so-called 'high philosophy' it is not worth for the ordinary people to try to get into such philosophies. By the same reckoning, it is not at all advisable to open a discussion about such a text in a public forum like this; my calling the work as containing profanities is not as grave as your starting a thread about it here in this forum. Please also note that a vaishnavite scholar has himself titled his research work on this Gita Govindam as 'sacred profanities'. Probably the profanity was too difficult to hide even for him!

You have been silent to the queries made by me in my post #34. I presume that answering those honestly will be inconvenient to you. That apart, Jayadeva according to history, lived around the 11th. or 12th. century A.D. and most probably in Puri, Orissa. Vedanta Desika was a later Vaishnavite Acharya of great repute, and Ramanuja was either earlier to or a contemporary of Jayadeva. Vedanta Desikar is supposed to have visited Puri, among other centres, and he spread Visishtadvaita philosophy wherever he toured. Even so, the Vaishnava Acharyas of the far south did not buy the Radha-Krishna theology; the idea that Radha, as the most Supreme God of the universe, created brahma, vishnu and siva, etc., might have been abhorrent to them, I believe.

Anyway, the Vaishnavam of the deep south kept itself unaffected away from the Vaamaachaara Tantric influences of the Sahajeeya and other similar cults which took shape in Orissa (Kalinga) and Bengal. This being the case, it is my view that just because we have the technology to access any book and delve on it, we should not fall for the kind of faith that ISKCON with its Gaudiya agenda is trying to spread. That was why I asked whether there is any reference to the character Radha in your accepted Vaishnava scriptures.

I understand that Vaishnavites give a lot of importance and reverence to their Azhvars and Acharyas. In that case, why should the new generation import new concepts like Radha-Krishna and literary works depicting the dalliance between those two, in the pretext that it points to some very highly (probably mystical and not understood) philosophy, etc? Taking "satsang" as the objective is only a lame excuse, at best, to lower the high standards of the vaishnavism of the south (as different from that of the north), in my opinion.

 

[JR]

Smt JR ji,

I cannot claim that I have "in-depth experience" (I am not clear what you actually mean by this expression, first of all) with the Gita Govindam; but I have read it completely, at least the shorter version with the ashtapadees only (and not the longer version with the kaavya portion preceding each ashtapadee) and since the lyrics have many erotic words, I have tried to read and understand the meanings also.

In my view even if such an erotic text contains any so-called 'high philosophy' it is not worth for the ordinary people to try to get into such philosophies. By the same reckoning, it is not at all advisable to open a discussion about such a text in a public forum like this; my calling the work as containing profanities is not as grave as your starting a thread about it here in this forum. Please also note that a vaishnavite scholar has himself titled his research work on this Gita Govindam as 'sacred profanities'. Probably the profanity was too difficult to hide even for him!

You have been silent to the queries made by me in my post #34. I presume that answering those honestly will be inconvenient to you. That apart, Jayadeva according to history, lived around the 11th. or 12th. century A.D. and most probably in Puri, Orissa. Vedanta Desika was a later Vaishnavite Acharya of great repute, and Ramanuja was either earlier to or a contemporary of Jayadeva. Vedanta Desikar is supposed to have visited Puri, among other centres, and he spread Visishtadvaita philosophy wherever he toured. Even so, the Vaishnava Acharyas of the far south did not buy the Radha-Krishna theology; the idea that Radha, as the most Supreme God of the universe, created brahma, vishnu and siva, etc., might have been abhorrent to them, I believe.

Anyway, the Vaishnavam of the deep south kept itself unaffected away from the Vaamaachaara Tantric influences of the Sahajeeya and other similar cults which took shape in Orissa (Kalinga) and Bengal. This being the case, it is my view that just because we have the technology to access any book and delve on it, we should not fall for the kind of faith that ISKCON with its Gaudiya agenda is trying to spread. That was why I asked whether there is any reference to the character Radha in your accepted Vaishnava scriptures.

I understand that Vaishnavites give a lot of importance and reverence to their Azhvars and Acharyas. In that case, why should the new generation import new concepts like Radha-Krishna and literary works depicting the dalliance between those two, in the pretext that it points to some very highly (probably mystical and not understood) philosophy, etc? Taking "satsang" as the objective is only a lame excuse, at best, to lower the high standards of the vaishnavism of the south (as different from that of the north), in my opinion.

Namaste Sir,

1. So you are saying that "though the text might have high philosophy it might not be suited for common man" - Well, you could either be deluded about the capabilities of a common man of the present yuga or you might be underestimating the value of the text and its reach among those with more capabiliities than that of a common man. Without having read the text for its philosophical worth, I have to kindly remind you, you are not in a position to comment or pass verdicts on the same. Shri. Vaagmi ji has read it and said it does contain subtle philosophical notes. To him it is useful. thus to so many others.

2. I only praised 1 SINGLE VERSE which says Sri Krishna likes Radha's feet being placed on his head. This is no invitation to a comment on the entire work calling it "oral sex" or for looking for further avenues to discuss the work for its sex content, if any. For one, since you have not read the worth for its philosophical offering and cannot offer even few verses as an example for so-claimed "erotic content", there is no ground evidence to disregard the work of a great devotee to such a mundane (and trashy) level.

3. That Radha is real or not, has nothing to do with my questions offered above in points 1 and 2.

4. Even if Radha is not real, I would not question great devotees of her for their bhakti nor I would claim I know it all to the point somebody should disregards their worship of some devata because I feel against it. Throughout North India, Radha worship is very popular and Sri Krishna being immensely merciful, will undoubtedly take all offerings offered to Radha for himself!

 

[krish44]

I find it amusing that one talks of vaishnavism having higher standards in south as compared to north. these are subjective statements.

When one thinks of krishna , one cannot help thinking of radha and their eternal love.

Reverance for krishna does not change due to that.

As per mythology , the birth place of vasudev krishna is mathura and radha is supposed to belong to barsana nearby.It is in north india

Krishna is supposed to have led yadavas to dwaraka in west coast after mahabharatha war.

Krishna is also treated as one of the avathars of vishnu.

Krishna belongs to whole of india .

Supposed dalliance between krishna and radha does not reduce the reverance for Him in any way

So all this reasoning has no relevance.

Does Vaishnavism of south disown krishna for relationship with radha ?, I do not know.It appears to be sangomjis desire

Sangomji has a lot of imagination . I find his post amusing and it could qualify for best humour award in this forum

His credibility is sure taking a beating.lol

I would like to play a special song for Sangomji

"madhuban me radhika naache re . Giridhar ki muraliya baaje re'

This song from "kohinoor' has lyrics and music by shakeel badayuni and naushad and sung by -mohd.rafi. All muslims by the way.

Sangomji Pl do not conclude that they are vaishnavites from north

 

[JR]

Kudos to you, Krish Sir! :thumb:

If there is any award that can be given, you verily deserve it for post #41.

I'm giving away 500 points to you, Sir!

 

[Vaagmi]

I find it amusing that one talks of vaishnavism having higher standards in south as compared to north. these are subjective statements.

When one thinks of krishna , one cannot help thinking of radha and their eternal love.

Reverance for krishna does not change due to that.

As per mythology , the birth place of vasudev krishna is mathura and radha is supposed to belong to barsana nearby.It is in north india

Krishna is supposed to have led yadavas to dwaraka in west coast after mahabharatha war.

Krishna is also treated as one of the avathars of vishnu.

Krishna belongs to whole of india .

Supposed dalliance between krishna and radha does not reduce the reverance for Him in any way

So all this reasoning has no relevance.

Does Vaishnavism of south disown krishna for relationship with radha ?, I do not know.It appears to be sangomjis desire

Sangomji has a lot of imagination . I find his post amusing and it could qualify for best humour award in this forum

His credibility is sure taking a beating.lol

I would like to play a special song for Sangomji

"madhuban me radhika naache re . Giridhar ki muraliya baaje re'

This song from "kohinoor' has lyrics and music by shakeel badayuni and naushad and sung by -mohd.rafi. All muslims by the way.

Sangomji Pl do not conclude that they are vaishnavites from north

Well said and very timely krishji.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

While it might be the circumstances that led to tragedies in the woman's life, it is also relevant and absolutely necessary to know the exact meaning of Ashtapadi by referring the dictionary of that time to decide whether it speaks about Bhakthi or romance of different kind.

 

[sangom]

Namaste Sir,

1. So you are saying that "though the text might have high philosophy it might not be suited for common man" - Well, you could either be deluded about the capabilities of a common man of the present yuga or you might be underestimating the value of the text and its reach among those with more capabiliities than that of a common man. Without having read the text for its philosophical worth, I have to kindly remind you, you are not in a position to comment or pass verdicts on the same. Shri. Vaagmi ji has read it and said it does contain subtle philosophical notes. To him it is useful. thus to so many others.

2. I only praised 1 SINGLE VERSE which says Sri Krishna likes Radha's feet being placed on his head. This is no invitation to a comment on the entire work calling it "oral sex" or for looking for further avenues to discuss the work for its sex content, if any. For one, since you have not read the worth for its philosophical offering and cannot offer even few verses as an example for so-claimed "erotic content", there is no ground evidence to disregard the work of a great devotee to such a mundane (and trashy) level.

3. That Radha is real or not, has nothing to do with my questions offered above in points 1 and 2.

4. Even if Radha is not real, I would not question great devotees of her for their bhakti nor I would claim I know it all to the point somebody should disregards their worship of some devata because I feel against it. Throughout North India, Radha worship is very popular and Sri Krishna being immensely merciful, will undoubtedly take all offerings offered to Radha for himself!

Namaste!

I am of the considered opinion that if Vaishnavas of the Tamil Land could lead fruitful and peaceful, contented lives without bringing in the character of Radha alongside Krishna, there is a definite streak of waywardness in grabbing on to the North Indian and Tantric kind of Vaishnava faith and eulogising Gita Govindam, etc.

But I also know that each person's fate works out in a unique way and when fate decrees, no power, not even God Vishnu or Krishna will be capable of going against it. My objective was to point out that Gita Govindam or Radha-Krishna kind of bhakti may not be a salutary thing. But since you seem to be obstinate in holding your (fault-ridden) ground, so be it. Karmas are accumulated by us (both you and myself) due to these kinds of actions only and when they fructify ultimately, perhaps we will repent!

I have nothing more to say.

 

[krish44]

Jai govindam jai gopalam repeat three times . thank sangomji for permitting members to hold their ground and appreciate Gita Govindam .grudgingly.

it is all our karmas finally.lol

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Radha Kalyanam is being performed only by Smarthas, it seems. Is there any reason for that?

 

[Vaagmi]

Namaste!

I am of the considered opinion that if Vaishnavas of the Tamil Land could lead fruitful and peaceful, contented lives without bringing in the character of Radha alongside Krishna, there is a definite streak of waywardness in grabbing on to the North Indian and Tantric kind of Vaishnava faith and eulogising Gita Govindam, etc.

But I also know that each person's fate works out in a unique way and when fate decrees, no power, not even God Vishnu or Krishna will be capable of going against it. My objective was to point out that Gita Govindam or Radha-Krishna kind of bhakti may not be a salutary thing. But since you seem to be obstinate in holding your (fault-ridden) ground, so be it. Karmas are accumulated by us (both you and myself) due to these kinds of actions only and when they fructify ultimately, perhaps we will repent!

I have nothing more to say.

What about the home grown variety of Tantric kind of Siva Worship? Sivavaakiyar is one such worshipper.

Those who eulogise Sidhdhar worship in this forum also should be perhaps suffering from their karma load. Where is the salvation for them?

 

[sangom]

Radha Kalyanam is being performed only by Smarthas, it seems. Is there any reason for that?

Shri Chandru Sir,

I am not aware whether Vaishnavites perform "Radha Kalyanam" (RK) but in our place there is a very old Iyengar who has been dominating the Bhajani scene for the last many decades and he takes the lead in the Radha Kalyanam performances, organised by Smartha groups also.

As for Smarthas, I can only say it is a bhakti fad (!) that they fall for the new gimmicks like RK instead of confining themselves to the old bhajanai sampradayam. In Malayalam, I will say it is "Kali kaala vaibhavam":sad:

 

[sangom]

What about the home grown variety of Tantric kind of Siva Worship? Sivavaakiyar is one such worshipper.

Those who eulogise Sidhdhar worship in this forum also should be perhaps suffering from their karma load. Where is the salvation for them?

"Sidhdar worship" — a) form of worship followed by the Siddhars, or, b) worship of the Sidhdars themselves as deities or gods/godheads.

I don't think I have even referred to a) above. Nor have I endorsed or recommended b). The only thing I have done is to appreciate Sivavakkiyar's words against idolatry. That is because I have also learnt from my life's experiences that idolatry is a wrong path to seek the ultimate truth.

Even though I have not eulogised Sidhdar worship in any form (a or b above) in this forum or elsewhere, I have read most of the Siddhar Padalgal and the karma load thereby caused will definitely be there; salvation is to be understood first before striving for it. Our vedic mantras often refer to "amritatvam" or state of no death; we should first learn what this means.