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The most famous verse of Jayadeva Swami's Gita-Govindam

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RRji

Thank you for your posts of jayadevas verses.

I do not know about JRji

I enjoyed the translations provided by you.

They do sound very attractive and very appealing.

So far I was appreciating only the melody of the lyrics. Now I could enjoy the translations also
 
krish44 said:
RRji

Thank you for your posts of jayadevas verses.

I do not know about JRji

I enjoyed the translations provided by you.

They do sound very attractive and very appealing.

So far I was appreciating only the melody of the lyrics. Now I could enjoy the translations also
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There is something not right about Krish ji!LOL

How come you seem very very 'docile' these days?
 
renuka said:
There is something not right about Krish ji!LOL

How come you seem very very 'docile' these days?
Click to expand...

When a cricket player returns to the Test team , first few overs ,he gets his eye in before trying to hit sixers.

that explains my mindset.lol
 
Raji Ram said:

2. Can't expect only J***RAA members here! :nono:
Click to expand...

I'm inclined to say, this is 'your perspective' only, Raji Madam!

For example, extending the same logic, I can say that, when somebody opposes the OP, and writes unwanted things without proof, OP also has the choice to 'oppose' the opposer!

Your recommendation or expectation that the OP should shut the mouth and resign into oblivion should anyone oppose his/her topic is neither practical or correct! :nono:
 
http://www.purebhakti.com/unconventionalteachers/ongitagovind.html

Eligibility for reading Gita-govinda

"To read a great literary work and understand it in terms of etymology is one type of experience, but to appreciate the profound sentiments by which one is truly acquainted with the work is a different experience entirely. Comprehension of the literal meaning of words is generally a simple affair, whereas assimilation of their underlying emotional significance is not so easy. It is impossible for one who is not qualified to read a particular text to accept its internal mood (bhavartha). Therefore all ancient scriptures traditionally begin by defining the specific parameters of eligibility for their prospective readers.

"Some deeply realized authors have strictly forbidden unqualified persons to study their compositions and have even pronounced curses upon those who might dare to delve into subjects beyond their comprehension. What is the need for such strict prohibitions? The necessity arises because unqualified persons who read esoteric texts inevitably misinterpret them. Thereby, potential benefits are replaced by ill effects upon themselves and others.

"The revered Jayadeva Gosvami has clarified the subject of eligibility in his auspicious invocation: 'If your heart yearns to delight in remembrance of Sri Hari; if you are hankering to contemplate upon Him with intense affection; if you are overwhelmed with curiosity to know about His skill in amorous pastimes – then by all means read this book. You will find my lovely poetry to be extremely relishable. Although it is so emotive and mellifluous, if you are not possessed of the aforementioned qualifications, then you must not read it. This literature is not for you.'

"Although Sri Jayadeva clearly addresses the issue of eligibility, the unqualified sector of society fails to understand him and goes on reading this poem with enthusiasm for its charming linguistic embellishments. However, impelled by their inability to grasp its real significance, they finally resort to insulting the crest jewel of poets, Sri Jayadeva, as if his composition were something crude. And so they must, for they do not recognize the divinity of Sri Hari. They are not even inclined to approach the precincts of sweet contemplation upon Him. They remain confined to their experience of misidentifying themselves with the physical body and considering sensual gratification to be the utmost limit of happiness. What can such slaves to lust ever understand about the affairs of transcendental love described by Sri Jayadeva Gosvami?
 
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Raji Madam,

How many threads to close like that (that is OP requesting for its closure)? Some users use every thread to spread their unwanted messages. Take my Murugan thread, it is purely devotional to praise Kandan, and there enters the controversy of Murugan not born to Shiva, Shakti, etc. So should it get closed immediately? Take the Prahlada thread, it clearly speaks of satsang praising the virtue of Prahlada. There enters the controversy of Prahlada not being a good son. So should it be closed immediately? Now in this thread, which is also purely a satsang thread, controversy again... Sometimes it is better to protest than ask for closing of every thread, because that is not possible.
 
JR said:
I'm inclined to say, this is 'your perspective' only, Raji Madam!

For example, extending the same logic, I can say that, when somebody opposes the OP, and writes unwanted things without proof, OP also has the choice to 'oppose' the opposer!

Your recommendation or expectation that the OP should shut the mouth and resign into oblivion should anyone oppose his/her topic is neither practical or correct! :nono:
Click to expand...
Dear Jayashree,

For any opening post, there will be J-s and opposing members. Can't expect only J-s!

I never asked any OP to shut the mouth and resign into oblivion! :nono:

If you hate some fights continuing in the thread you have started, then you can request for closure of the thread.

This has happened several times earlier.
Please understand that :lock1: means closure of the thread and NOT the mouth! ;)
 
RRji
I beg to disagree.

Members should refrain from settling inter personal scores on at least some threads relating to religion,devotional music etc

It might be a good idea to have Hyde park type of facility where members can let out their personal ire against other members.just an idea.

Some members are incompatible with others. They can stop responding to each others posts and stop the agony other members are undergoing.

My heart goes to JR still waiting to hear Jayadevas verses as melodious songs sung by great artists.
 
Thank you very much, Krish ji and Bala Sir.

Actually, I'm hearing anything about Gita Govindam is ok, Raji Madam has given beautiful raaga details, Krish ji info on wonderful performances... anything like that is ok.
 
JR said:
http://www.purebhakti.com/unconventionalteachers/ongitagovind.html

Eligibility for reading Gita-govinda

"To read a great literary work and understand it in terms of etymology is one type of experience, but to appreciate the profound sentiments by which one is truly acquainted with the work is a different experience entirely. Comprehension of the literal meaning of words is generally a simple affair, whereas assimilation of their underlying emotional significance is not so easy. It is impossible for one who is not qualified to read a particular text to accept its internal mood (bhavartha). Therefore all ancient scriptures traditionally begin by defining the specific parameters of eligibility for their prospective readers.

"Some deeply realized authors have strictly forbidden unqualified persons to study their compositions and have even pronounced curses upon those who might dare to delve into subjects beyond their comprehension. What is the need for such strict prohibitions? The necessity arises because unqualified persons who read esoteric texts inevitably misinterpret them. Thereby, potential benefits are replaced by ill effects upon themselves and others.

"The revered Jayadeva Gosvami has clarified the subject of eligibility in his auspicious invocation: 'If your heart yearns to delight in remembrance of Sri Hari; if you are hankering to contemplate upon Him with intense affection; if you are overwhelmed with curiosity to know about His skill in amorous pastimes – then by all means read this book. You will find my lovely poetry to be extremely relishable. Although it is so emotive and mellifluous, if you are not possessed of the aforementioned qualifications, then you must not read it. This literature is not for you.'

"Although Sri Jayadeva clearly addresses the issue of eligibility, the unqualified sector of society fails to understand him and goes on reading this poem with enthusiasm for its charming linguistic embellishments. However, impelled by their inability to grasp its real significance, they finally resort to insulting the crest jewel of poets, Sri Jayadeva, as if his composition were something crude. And so they must, for they do not recognize the divinity of Sri Hari. They are not even inclined to approach the precincts of sweet contemplation upon Him. They remain confined to their experience of misidentifying themselves with the physical body and considering sensual gratification to be the utmost limit of happiness. What can such slaves to lust ever understand about the affairs of transcendental love described by Sri Jayadeva Gosvami?
Click to expand...

Dear Mrs JR:

Have a question. I am sure I fall into the category of people that are not qualified by the above definition.
However I appreciate your post and that of Mrs Raji wherein she provided translation of the verses using a reference.

If one were to read the literal translation it is a poetic description of what a man will say to his lover. If one has the eligibility to understand the verse how will they interpret differently that what is described is divine love. Perhaps asking Radha to keep her feet on Krishna's head could be viewed as to the purity of heart of Radha and will not feature in a dialog between a man and his lover.

Is there an example of one verse where you see a different meaning beyond the literal meaning?
 
Raji Ram said:
Dear TKS Sir,

A note about DEvakriya. It is considered Suddha SAvEri by Dikshitar.

We know it as Karnataka Suddha SAvEri.

Suddha SAvEri has

Sri D K J renders 'EkAmbrEsa nAyikE' set to DEvakriya: EkAmbrEsa nAyikE
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Smt Raji Ram - Thanks so much for reference to Sri DK's piece. In the tradition of his sister and teacher, the words of the piece are very clear.

My knowledge of Carnatic music is only from what is called "கேள்வி" jnanam and from talking to Rasikas over the years. Obviously I do not have expertise but it has not prevented me from enjoying various concerts.

Coming to this Raga Devakriya depending on how its origin is defined different schools seem to have emerged.

For this raga there are three possible Janya ragas - Kharaharapriya or Natabhairavi or Sankarabharanam. The Dikshidar school terms this as Sudha Saveri with Janya ragam being Sankarabharanam.

I do not want to hijack the topic of this thread. Thanks for sharing your expertise!
 
The real purport (philosophy) of Gita Govindam may not be understood by many. But as a love lorn couple Radha and Krishna are enjoying each other's company. This is easily understandable. One who is in love, asking his love to keep her leg on him is quite normal behavior. We have this song in which the lover tells his sweet heart that he will build a temple of love for her and keep doing pooja for her. And he says he will bring the stars to decorate her rich trusses. He will keep flowers at every step she takes etc., etc.,. That is what love does to a human being. And move one step ahead and you have love for God. Listen to this song fully and then decide what love for God or bhakti can be:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9urIZUwblKg
 
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a-TB said:
Dear Mrs JR:

Have a question. I am sure I fall into the category of people that are not qualified by the above definition.
However I appreciate your post and that of Mrs Raji wherein she provided translation of the verses using a reference.

If one were to read the literal translation it is a poetic description of what a man will say to his lover. If one has the eligibility to understand the verse how will they interpret differently that what is described is divine love. Perhaps asking Radha to keep her feet on Krishna's head could be viewed as to the purity of heart of Radha and will not feature in a dialog between a man and his lover.

Is there an example of one verse where you see a different meaning beyond the literal meaning?
Click to expand...

Namaste Sir,

The answer for your question is "I don't know the answer, nor I am seeking anyone to disclose this kinda answer to me".

If you want to divulge in this, you can. But please do understand, that a certain sentimental value is attached to religious things for most people. Therefore people do not want baseless claims (like equating the supposed call of Krishna to Radha to place her feet on his head to "oral sex") thrown on their way. Even this section says, "Please do not use this forum to engage in discussions against any particular religion or caste. Such topics will be promptly deleted." Perhaps the word "sect" is missing from this definition.

I know you are an expert at argument and perhaps an extraordinarily intelligent man. I am no match for you than me arguing here for the sake of my faith in my religion and my quest to preserve its integrity. I request you to take up your questions to someone equal match for you in arguing. :wave:
 
I have been keeping away from this thread as it is in religious section.
I respect the religious sentiment expressed by JRji.
I do have problem with poetry where the poet has taken liberties, but I as a reader can not critic it.
The Radha-krishna story is very recent probably 7th or 8th century AD. It has no historic basis.
Birth aand Childhood
Appearance at midnite of Sravana k8 (July 19/20), year 3228 BC to Devaki
taken by Vasudeva from Mathura to Nanda and Yasoda in Gokula

Till 3
lived in Gokula
killed Putana, Sakatasura, Trinivarta demons
3 - 6
moved to Vrindavana
killed Bakasura, Aghasura, Dhenuka and Balarama killed Pralamba
moved to Nandagrama
7-10
Brahma steals and returns cowherd boys
Govardhana puja
played rasa-lila with the gopis
invited to Mathura for wrestling match
killed Canura and Balarama killed Mustika
killed Kamsa and Balarama killed his brothers.
Youth and Adulthood

10-28
lived in Mathura
Intiated with Balarama into chanting Gayatri by Gargamuni
Instructed with Balarama in the sixty four arts by Sandipani Muni
Protects Mathura from many demons
29 - 125
Establishes kingdom in Dvaraka
Marriage to Rukmini and 7 principal queens
Marriage to 16,100 princesses
161,080 sons born to Krishna
Speaks Bhagavad-Gita at Kuruksetra Battle(~90)(3138 BC)
Saves King Pariksit in the womb
Instructs Uddhava
125
Disappearance on February 18th 3102 BC


Krishna never returned to Gokul or Nandagram after age 10. So this sexual fantasy is purely imagined by Jaideva and his followers.
In Tamil literature and olden Sanskrit literature there is no mention of Radha.
Even in Sahasranam it is only mentions Rukmani and Satyabhama.
Bringing Radha as sexual partner of Krishna is just salacious. If Radha existed in gokul as a gopy and played with Krishna, the child and Krishna might have treated her as an aunt.
 
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JR said:
Namaste Sir,

The answer for your question is "I don't know the answer, nor I am seeking anyone to disclose this kinda answer to me".

If you want to divulge in this, you can. But please do understand, that a certain sentimental value is attached to religious things for most people. Therefore people do not want baseless claims (like equating the supposed call of Krishna to Radha to place her feet on his head to "oral sex") thrown on their way. Even this section says, "Please do not use this forum to engage in discussions against any particular religion or caste. Such topics will be promptly deleted." Perhaps the word "sect" is missing from this definition.

I know you are an expert at argument and perhaps an extraordinarily intelligent man. I am no match for you than me arguing here for the sake of my faith in my religion and my quest to preserve its integrity. I request you to take up your questions to someone equal match for you in arguing. :wave:
Click to expand...

Dear Mrs JR:
I understand your sentiments. Thanks for your response. I am not all that intelligent. I was only campaigning for a substantive discussions.
 
Vaagmi said:
The real purport (philosophy) of Gita Govindam may not be understood by many. But as a love lorn couple Radha and Krishna are enjoying each other's company. This is easily understandable. One who is in love, asking his love to keep her leg on him is quite normal behavior. We have this song in which the lover tells his sweet heart that he will build a temple of love for her and keep doing pooja for her. And he says he will bring the stars to decorate her rich trusses. He will keep flowers at every step she takes etc., etc.,. That is what love does to a human being. And move one step ahead and you have love for God. Listen to this song fully and then decide what love for God or bhakti can be:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9urIZUwblKg
Click to expand...

Mr Vaagmi:

Though you addressed this to everyone it is a bit informative. Thanks regardless.
You can engage in more discussion if you prefer.

I cannot understand how human love for one another can be a stepping stone for divine love.
Human heart can turn a love into hate in a dime. Parents and children's love can also get corrupted - we witness so many old folks homes.
Divorce courts are full of people many who had expressed deep love to each other at one time.

Human's capacity for love is limited by its capacity to hate as well when circumstances change.

I may never understand the poets intent of how expression of human love can transform into eternal love of god.

Also the poet must know that the Krishna had other wives. Human love is normally not designed to share their lover with others. This is another limitation of human love. How can it grow into divine love?
 
krish44 said:
RRji
I beg to disagree.

Members should refrain from settling inter personal scores on at least some threads relating to religion,devotional music etc. ......
Click to expand...
Very true, Krish Sir!

But we don't have control over the keyboard of other members! :sad:
 
tks said:
.......... Coming to this Raga Devakriya depending on how its origin is defined different schools seem to have emerged.

For this raga there are three possible Janya ragas - Kharaharapriya or Natabhairavi or Sankarabharanam. The Dikshidar school terms this as Sudha Saveri with Janya ragam being Sankarabharanam. ....!
Click to expand...
Just one more post on Devakriya.

The derived rAgam is known as Janya rAgam and the 'mother' rAgam is Janaka rAgam.

When some swaras don't appear in a rAgam, there can be more than one Janaka rAgam and it is chosen by the gamakams used in the

ragam. Devakriya has R1, M1, D1 and can't be Janya of any of the three rAgams (viz) Kharaharapriya, Natabhairavi or SankarabharaNam

because all the three have R2. Though some Janaka rAgams are possible for Devakriya (for example MAyAmALavagowla and Thodi

which also have R1, M1, D1) , it is considered to be the Janya rAgam of KanakAngi - The first rAgam in the mELa chakram.

P.S: This post is for those who are interested in theory of Carnatic music. Others please excuse! :)
 
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