The Socio Economic and Caste Census 2011

[krish44]

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In Posting # 10 you said that' Kerala brahmins are smarter. They look after their interests better'. Now you will have to prove what you said is true. Substantiate your stand man. It is definitely not a place to blabber.


It is a public Forum, where every member has got every right to question and you are obliged to substantiate whatever you right here

In a Forum like this with an elite group participation, this is not definitely a place for members who write to their whim and fancies without any basis and thus adding on to their account of blah blah postings.lol

Let them start their own Forum and blabber to their heart's content without any one to question their baseless and unfounded statements.

I have already posted elsewhere that kerala brahmins have set up forums to enable education of college going brahmins.some in this forum have given links as to

who has to be approached for help.

They have lived in multi caste ,religion state in harmony carving out a prominent role in various fields .

One brahmin has even been in govt as CM[EMS Namboodripad].

kerala brahmins are very enterprising with excellent business sense.

they can mould themselves pretty well to realities and make a positive contribution .

even in this forum kerala brahmins are making a significant contribution in various threads on matters related to religion ,music etc.

they have been able to become part of the music scene in chennai which is not their native state.

they integrate smoothly with people of all regions and states.

delhi has a huge population of palghat brahmins who contribute to civil services,business houses and the cultural scene.

Kerala brahmins have not got marginalised in their state and bond cohesively with other castes and religion

 

[V.Balasubramani]

What gives you special rights to question anyone?

Have you been given that special role or a self appointed one'?

You cannot set special rules for this forum and decide what others should or should not do.

for that you need to own/start a forum .

not a bad idea , really . Why not consider that instead of reforming members of this forum? only a suggestion.

Try to understand the Forum and its rules first.

It is General Discussion and the Rule is "Topics unrelated to other forums. Please note many of the topics can be sensitive in nature. Use your discretion! If you do not like or agree with something, better move to another topic. Keep Calm and Stay Cool at all times!In General Discussion everyone will question what others post. And it is for the poster to prove his stand or version or statement whatever it is otherwise, better to keep away.

It is not certainly a place for blabbering or chatting. Mind that.

It is Forum rules and not a special rule set by me. Just read the Forum rules before getting into discussion.

Without knowing anything you just poke your nose in such threads and go on write blah blah and when one questions your stand, you simply evade giving childish reasons.

Behave like a responsible member and try to substantiate your statement in posting #10. Otherwise, whatever you have written will be considered only blabbering and nothing but blabbering. lol

 

[krish44]

Try to understand the Forum and its rules first.

It is General Discussion and the Rule is "Topics unrelated to other forums. Please note many of the topics can be sensitive in nature. Use your discretion! If you do not like or agree with something, better move to another topic. Keep Calm and Stay Cool at all times!In General Discussion everyone will question what others post. And it is for the poster to prove his stand or version or statement whatever it is otherwise, better to keep away.

It is not certainly a place for blabbering or chatting. Mind that.

It is Forum rules and not a special rule set by me. Just read the Forum rules before getting into discussion.

Without knowing anything you just poke your nose in such threads and go on write blah blah and when one questions your stand, you simply evade giving childish reasons.

Behave like a responsible member and try to substantiate your statement in posting #10. Otherwise, whatever you have written will be considered only blabbering and nothing but blabbering. lol

Thank you for educating me .pl read post 26.regards

 

[krish44]

The caste census in tamilnadu should reveal the actual strength of brahmins in tamilnadu.

The trend if it is of depletion should be a pointer on what to expect in future.

they might become extinct over the years like parsis, jews, anglo indians ,armenians in rest of india,

that would be sad if it happens

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Thank you for educating me .pl read post 26.regards

Your posting # 26 is quite vague, blunt and ambiguous. No specific case is pointed out.

How do you say the Kerala Brahmins are better?

What do you know about Tamil Brahmins first?

Do you have any idea about the number of Organizations, Associations, Groups, Institutions pertaining to Tamil Brahmins exist in Tamil Nadu and what are their activities?. The good services rendered by them and helps extended to the poor brahmins.

Your reply is like மொட்டை தாத்தா குட்டையில் விழுந்தார்.

Any layman can give such a reply which requires no knowledge base.

Come out with clear cases, specific instances, points.

First of all you have absolutely no knowledge about the Tamil Brahmins.

You come here and talk absurd as though Tamil Brahmins are inferior.

What do you know about Kerala Brahmins. How do you say that they are smarter. They look after their interests better.

Better go and do some homework and come here to write with facts, figures, points, etc
.
Lest, keep away from such threads which is better for members like you. lol

For one point you are struggling to establish your stand. But your posting consist lot of such meaningless, pointless things which requires concrete proof.

It is better for members like you go to 'Chit Chat' session and have a merry time there.

 

[V.Balasubramani]

The caste census in tamilnadu should reveal the actual strength of brahmins in tamilnadu.

The trend if it is of depletion should be a pointer on what to expect in future.

they might become extinct over the years like parsis, jews, anglo indians ,armenians in rest of india,

that would be sad if it happens

Better concentrate on the Brahmins of Delhi.

We have enough here to give sage advice.

We hate to hear preachings of arm chair revolutionary personalities, bcos they simply sit before a system and type whatever their mind says without any thinking, without any basis, without any facts and figures, etc etc

We know how to protect our interest.

Of course, may be Delhi Brahmins need such interesting personalities. lol

 

[vgane]

In Tamil Nadu it is no more B vs NB in villages & towns...

CHENNAI, July 5, 2015 [h=1]It’s now Dalits vs. non-Dalits[/h]
They account for 21 per cent of Tamil Nadu’s population, and the Socio-economic and Caste Census has now found that Dalit households in rural Tamil Nadu touch 25.55 per cent. However, Dalits in the State continue to be at the receiving end; and there seems to be no let-up in atrocities against them.


“Historically, the political discourse in Tamil Nadu revolved around the Brahmins versus non-Brahmins question. Now, it has become Dalits versus non-Dalits. The consistent campaign by caste outfits have resulted in other communities ganging up against Dalits, rendering their numerical strength somewhat significant,” said P. Sampath, president of the Tamil Nadu Untouchability Eradication Front (TNUEF).


While urbanisation is expected to dilute caste discrimination, Dalits could not take advantage of the process as they could not migrate to urban areas due to lack of education and resources. This is reflected in the increase in their households. “Traditional land holding communities migrated to cities long ago. Lands have changed hands and intermediate communities are holding a major portion of the land. Dalits, mostly landless and eking out a livelihood as agricultural labourers, are at the mercy of the intermediate communities,” said VCK general secretary Ravikumar.


The late 1980s saw the emergence of parties that secured political clout for intermediate communities. Subsequently, the Panchayati Raj system accumulated power in the hands of representatives of local bodies from these castes. “Intermediate communities became very powerful politically. It also helped them control mines and minerals, particularly sand mining in rural areas. Today, they are both politically and economically empowered. Dalits can do little against them,” Mr. Ravikumar said.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/chennai/its-now-dalits-vs-nondalits/article7387939.ece

 

[krish44]

Better concentrate on the Brahmins of Delhi.

We have enough here to give sage advice.

We hate to hear preachings of arm chair revolutionary personalities, bcos they simply sit before a system and type whatever their mind says without any thinking, without any basis, without any facts and figures, etc etc

We know how to protect our interest.

Of course, may be Delhi Brahmins need such interesting personalities. lol

whose interests are getting protected by your wise posts.?

Not tamil nadu brahmins

 

[krish44]

Kerala brahmins of this forum are far wiser and smarter than This TB above. What better proof is needed?

 

[krish44]

In Tamil Nadu it is no more B vs NB in villages & towns...

CHENNAI, July 5, 2015 It’s now Dalits vs. non-Dalits


They account for 21 per cent of Tamil Nadu’s population, and the Socio-economic and Caste Census has now found that Dalit households in rural Tamil Nadu touch 25.55 per cent. However, Dalits in the State continue to be at the receiving end; and there seems to be no let-up in atrocities against them.


“Historically, the political discourse in Tamil Nadu revolved around the Brahmins versus non-Brahmins question. Now, it has become Dalits versus non-Dalits. The consistent campaign by caste outfits have resulted in other communities ganging up against Dalits, rendering their numerical strength somewhat significant,” said P. Sampath, president of the Tamil Nadu Untouchability Eradication Front (TNUEF).


While urbanisation is expected to dilute caste discrimination, Dalits could not take advantage of the process as they could not migrate to urban areas due to lack of education and resources. This is reflected in the increase in their households. “Traditional land holding communities migrated to cities long ago. Lands have changed hands and intermediate communities are holding a major portion of the land. Dalits, mostly landless and eking out a livelihood as agricultural labourers, are at the mercy of the intermediate communities,” said VCK general secretary Ravikumar.


The late 1980s saw the emergence of parties that secured political clout for intermediate communities. Subsequently, the Panchayati Raj system accumulated power in the hands of representatives of local bodies from these castes. “Intermediate communities became very powerful politically. It also helped them control mines and minerals, particularly sand mining in rural areas. Today, they are both politically and economically empowered. Dalits can do little against them,” Mr. Ravikumar said.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/chennai/its-now-dalits-vs-nondalits/article7387939.ece

Dalits position is unenviable.

Is there no way out for them?

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Kerala brahmins of this forum are far wiser and smarter than This TB above. What better proof is needed?

Who are all the Kerala Brahmins in the Forum?

And how do you define they are all smarter?

What is your thumb rule?

Let it not be another blabbering. Come out with more specific cases with authentication.

 

[krish44]

you have been long enough to know who kerala brahmins are in this forum

I do not need to define anything.

Forum members who post here can decide who are smart and who are not

I have no desire to get into meaningless spat with you.

It is just a waste of energy.

 

[krish44]

The subject of the thread is socio economic and caste census.

the interest is what numbers are revealed caste wise and what is their poverty level in many states of north and south.

in north ,the interest is in bihar where elections are due in sept /oct.

in south it is the congress and opposition ruled states.

the caste composition of deprived section is likely to cause political upheavals .

parties like JD , PMK hope to get electoral dividends from this report.

states having reservation for obc and other deprived sections would be able to bolster their case for more of that armed with latest data.

this report is a ticking time bomb.

passions are likely to run high with the data to be released.

















.

 

[V.Balasubramani]

you have been long enough to know who kerala brahmins are in this forum

I do not need to define anything.

Forum members who post here can decide who are smart and who are not

I have no desire to get into meaningless spat with you.

It is just a waste of energy.

I find it quite amusing that one member comes here and talks of ‘Kerala Brahmins are smarter. They look after their interests better’, etc. etc as though it appears that this member seems to have better personal and firsthand knowledge about Kerala Brahmins which is not the truth. This member either has any knowledge about the Tamil Brahmins of South India or equally about the Kerala Brahmins.

And when questioned about the basis of his statement, he gave an evasive reply and top of it all, he cited the Kerala Members of this Forum are more smart.

And when questioned as to who are all the members of Kerala Brahmins of this Forum, he comes up again with an evasive reply which is his modus operandi.

I think this member intentionally post such statements glorifying a particular section without any basis and thus indirectly degradee Tamil Brahmins more especially staying in Tamil Brahmins Forum.

Demeaning or belittling Tamil Brahmins indirectly is not in good taste and amounts to bringing in unwanted division among us.

Anyway, I would like to dedicate this special song for action of posting a glorifying a particular sect. and evading to substantiate it..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54qGTIOkuww

enjoy

Besides I would also like to recommend his name for the prestigious award of Master of blabbering of this Forum, if any for his above action..

 

[krish44]

I have moved on to the topic of the thread . I hope the member above will do the same

There are larger issues for discussion regarding the topic of the thread.which is socio economic and caste census 2011.

we are still waiting for comprehensive data regarding caste composition of rural poor which will be the hottest topic in days to come.

this can make or break political careers and decide the fate at next election in many states of india.

even the ruling party at the centre can get affected due to its caste composition.

castes which have not got their share of the political pie are likely to raise their voice for better electoral representation in states and the centre.

many castes like the jats with sizeable presence in two or three states have been clamouring for reservation as a backward caste.

It may also throw some unexpected surprises .

Years to come reservation politics will take a different turn.

We did not face all this when we were young.

We did not get discriminated in the capital due to our caste.

So I am unable to imagine what it is to be discriminated for education or jobs.

 

[V.Balasubramani]

I have moved on to the topic of the thread . I hope the member above will do the same

.

You wanted to skip away as early as possible especially when you are caught ‘on the wrong foot’.

You should know that this ESCC 2011 Report was released after seven-eight decades providing provisional data on Rural India, State wise and the same is given in the link furnished hereunder:

http://www.secc.gov.in/staticSummary

We can leisurely go through the same and discuss point by point and we have enough time for that.

Why are you evincing more interest all of a sudden to discuss about the thread? .

So, your idea is to get out of the issue of your glorifying Kerala Brahmins and their smartness without properly explaining your stand and the reason for quoting such a statement.

And when there is no guarantee that you won’t blabber again, what is the point in continuing the discussion.

 

[V.Balasubramani]

This is the ground reality.

Why this oldest profession still continues to thrive in our country despite subsequent Governments promising ‘Garibi Hatao’, ‘Achche Din’, etc?

In Tamil Nadu there is Tamil Nadu Prevention of Begging Act in existence. But unfortunately getting rid of beggars is posing a challenging task to the Government.

Are we Indians serious in dealing with this social issue?.

"இந்தியாவில் பிச்சை எடுத்து வாழும் 6½ லட்சம் குடும்பங்கள்: அதிர்ச்சி தகவல்
புதுடெல்லி, ஜூலை.6-

இந்தியாவில் உள்ள 640 மாவட்டங்களில் குடும்பங்களின் வாழ்வாதாரம், சொத்து, கல்விநிலை, வேலைவாய்ப்பு உள்ளிட்டவை தொடர்பாக மத்திய ஊரக வளர்ச்சித்துறை சமூக, பொருளாதார, சாதி கணக்கெடுப்பு ஒன்றை நடத்தியது.

கிராமப்புறங்களில் 17 கோடியே 59 லட்சம் குடும்பங்களை இந்த கணக்கெடுப்புக்கு உட்படுத்தியதில் 0.37 சதவீதம் குடும்பங்கள், அதாவது 6 லட்சத்து 68 ஆயிரம் குடும்பங்களின் வாழ்வாதாரம், பிச்சையெடுப்பதுதான் என்றும், பிச்சையெடுத்துத்தான் அவை வாழ்கின்றன என்ற அதிர்ச்சி தகவலும் வெளியாகி இருக்கிறது.

குப்பை பொறுக்கி அதன் மூலம் கிடைக்கிற வருமானத்தைக்கொண்டு 4 லட்சத்து 8 ஆயிரம் குடும்பங்கள் வாழ்கின்றன. இவர்களின் வாழ்வாதாரம், குப்பை பொறுக்குவது மட்டும்தான்.

இந்த சர்வேயில் வெளியாகி உள்ள பிற முக்கிய தகவல்கள்:-

* 51 சதவீதம் குடும்பங்கள், சாதாரண கூலி வேலை செய்துதான் தங்கள் வாழ்க்கையை நடத்துகின்றன.

* 1 கோடியே 9 லட்சத்து 11 ஆயிரத்து 196 குடும்பங்கள், உடல் ஊனமுற்ற உறுப்பினரை கொண்டுள்ளன.

* 6 லட்சத்து 79 ஆயிரத்து 128 பேர் உடல் ஊனமுற்ற நிலையில், பிறர் உதவியின்றி தனிமையில் வாழ்கின்றனர்.

இது 2011-ம் ஆண்டு புள்ளிவிவரம் என்பது குறிப்பிடத்தக்கது

Source: http://www.maalaimalar.com/2015/07/06041638/over-6-lakhs-families-begging.html

 

[V.Balasubramani]

SECC not irrelevant just yet

CRUCIAL EXERCISE: There are now multiple reliable estimates of the extent of rural poverty. In picture are Finance Minister Arun Jaitley and Minister for Rural Development Birender Singh (right) during the release of the Socio-Economic and Caste Census in New Delhi. Photo: V. Sudershan
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Although the SECC’s objectives are not likely to be met, it is a big step towards providing accurate information on the well-being of the people.

The release of data for rural households from the Socio Economic and Caste Census (SECC) is only the latest step in India’s tortured history of trying to count its poor. The idea behind the SECC was technocratic. Commissioned by the United Progressive Alliance in 2011, it was meant to canvass every Indian family, both in rural and urban India, and ask about their economic status so as to allow Central and State authorities to come up with a range of indicators of deprivation, permutations and combinations of which could be used by each authority to define a poor or deprived person. It was also meant, for the first time since 1931, to ask every person their specific caste name to allow the government to re-evaluate which caste groups were economically worst off and which were better off. As it happens, neither of those objectives is likely to be served.


The feeling was that the current definition of poverty — which was derived by identifying a basket of essential goods and services and marking the point in India’s income distribution where that basket could be purchased by an individual — was missing too much. For one, the numbers seemed absurdly low — set at Rs.816 per person per month in rural areas and Rs.1,000 in urban areas by the Planning Commission by updating the Tendulkar methodology, the numbers amounted to a daily expenditure of around Rs.30, which caused public indignation. A new committee was formed which drew a new line, but the Rangarajan methodology too wound up at a poverty line not very different from the Tendulkar line.


Read more at: http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/comment-secc-not-irrelevant-just-yet/article7389377.ece

 

[vgane]

Years to come reservation politics will take a different turn.

We did not face all this when we were young.

We did not get discriminated in the capital due to our caste.

So I am unable to imagine what it is to be discriminated for education or jobs.

I studied in a prestigious school in Chennai (PSBB)....Way back in late 70's our Brahmin seniors in School used to say that if you wear Poonool then you will not get professional seat admission..This was the state of affairs in TN....But Tamil Brahmins have come a long way as far as education is concerned by fighting against the system, exposing the discrimination and rancor in media and starting self financing colleges with the help of a good samaritan leader MGR....Medical seats are however still a distant dream for TB's

 

[krish44]

Even today for medical seat , the situation is same all over india.

in delhi pre med entrance got cancelled and is getting rescheduled due to paper leakage and matter got referred to high court.

many try for foreign degree and then later have to take further exam in india for permission to practise in india

again even with a medical degree , and specialisation one needs support to practise inindia, jobs in govt hospitals are scarce and the working conditions are aweful.

most go to foreign countries UK or US for making a decent living

 

[V.Balasubramani]

I studied in a prestigious school in Chennai (PSBB)....Way back in late 70's our Brahmin seniors in School used to say that if you wear Poonool then you will not get professional seat admission..This was the state of affairs in TN....But Tamil Brahmins have come a long way as far as education is concerned by fighting against the system, exposing the discrimination and rancor in media and starting self financing colleges with the help of a good samaritan leader MGR....Medical seats are however still a distant dream for TB's

vgane Ji

What you have said was a fact prevailed then I mean in 70s. But today's reality is quite different and now, it is not enough if one just wear a poonal, besides he should be able to shell out several lakhs ( even if one score top rank in the Entrance) towards donation, etc in Brahmin run Educational Institutions. If don't have money, but only merit, the boy wearing poonal will be denied admission, instead a wealthy NB boy will get the chance..

 

[vgane]

vgane Ji

What you have said was a fact prevailed then I mean in 70s. But today's reality is quite different and now, it is not enough if one just wear a poonal, besides he should be able to shell out several lakhs ( even if one score top rank in the Entrance) towards donation, etc in Brahmin run Educational Institutions. If don't have money, but only merit, the boy wearing poonal will be denied admission, instead a wealthy NB boy will get the chance..

Dear VBji,

This commercialization will not do good...How many Brahmins will be there who would not be able to get Medical seat because they cannot afford the capitation fee....We need to overcome this..No one should feel that caste is his/her handicap...How is it possible...A TB trust should take care of such students....Will some one bite the bullet?

 

[vgane]

Even today for medical seat , the situation is same all over india.

in delhi pre med entrance got cancelled and is getting rescheduled due to paper leakage and matter got referred to high court.

many try for foreign degree and then later have to take further exam in india for permission to practise in india

again even with a medical degree , and specialisation one needs support to practise inindia, jobs in govt hospitals are scarce and the working conditions are aweful.

most go to foreign countries UK or US for making a decent living

No Sir...If you look at the selected people in Delhi for example 50% will be Banias who are FC's and are as intelligent as the South Indian Brahmins...So it is not as bad as in TN...In TN Brahmins getting medical will be less than 1-2%...If the stigma of caste is removed they may get admission in droves which the system does not want

 

[V.Balasubramani]

சாதிவாரிக் கணக்கெடுப்பு விவரத்தை மத்திய அரசு வெளியிட தாமதித்தால் அது அநீதி: கருணாநிதி

சென்னை: சாதிவாரிக் கணக்கெடுப்பு விவரங்களை மத்திய அரசு உடனடியாக வெளியிட வேண்டும். அதைத் தாமதம் செய்தால் பிற்படுத்தப்பட்டோருக்கும், இதர சமுதாயத்தினருக்கும் பயன் இருக்காது என்று திமுக தலைவர் கருணாநிதி கூறியுள்ளார்.

Read more at: http://tamil.oneindia.com/news/tami...elease-socio-economic-status-data-230431.html

 

[V.Balasubramani]

ஏழை மாணவர்களை சேர்க்காத தனியார் பள்ளிகள் மீது நடவடிக்கை.. தமிழக அரசுக்கு உயர்நீதிமன்றம் உத்தரவு...

சென்னை : இலவச கட்டாய கல்வி உரிமைச் சட்டத்தின் கீழ் ஏழை மாணவர்களை சேர்க்க மறுக்கும் தனியார் பள்ளிகள் மீது நடவடிக்கை எடுக்க கண்காணிப்புக் குழுவை தமிழக அரசு ஒரு வாரத்துக்குள் உருவாக்க வேண்டும் என்று உயர்நீதிமன்றம் உத்தரவிட்டுள்ளது.மாற்றத்துக்கான இந்தியா' என்ற அமைப்பின் இயக்குநர் பாடம் நாராயணன் என்பவர் உயர்நீதிமன்றத்தில் தாக்கல் செய்துள்ள பொதுநல மனுவில், ‘இலவச கட்டாயக் கல்வி உரிமைச் சட்டத்தின் கீழ் தனியார் பள்ளிகள் மாணவர் சேர்க்கையின் போது, மொத்த இடங்களில் 25 சதவீத இடங்களை ஏழை மற்றும் சமுதாயத்தின் பின்தங்கிய குடும்பத்தை சேர்ந்த மாணவர்களுக்கு வழங்க வேண்டும். தமிழகத்தில் உள்ள தனியார் பள்ளிகள் 25 சதவீத இடங்களை ஏழை மாணவர்களை கொண்டு நிரப்ப நடவடிக்கை எடுக்கப்பட்டுள்ளதா? என்பதை உறுதி செய்யுமாறு தமிழக அரசுக்கு உத்தரவிட வேண்டும் என்று கூறியிருந்தார்



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