Theetu

[AnanthaNarayanan]

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please any one tell me

how many days/months, i have to avert religious funtions in the home on the death of my Athai( my fathers last sister)

thanks

 

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To All: This Theetu and Madi are just mind's pollution. This is not having any ref from scriptures. I agree with Sangoms reply.s.r.k.

 

[vijayramanathan]

I am really surprised that main question is not answered till now.the discussion is only about women and old customs why dont you get some vedic scollor opinion about my primary question ie anushtanam of theettu while in travel.

Ramani

 

[happyhindu]

K, I think Happy or Shri sangom may be able to answer your question better than I can. From what little I know, I think Lingayats of Karnataka don't observe this theetu business, but they are technically not Hindus, but in practice they have become just another caste. I don't know what the custom is in the north.

Lingayath women pray during menstruation - they have no restrictions whatsoever. Found that the role model is usually Akka Mahadevi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Their focus is more on a healthy mind, and general physical cleanliness also (so some end up bathing a few times a day).

There is no ritual observation of theetu / madi. As veera-shaivas, they are very much hindus; albeit non-orthodox ones from the brahmanical pov. Incidentally, many veerashavia converts were former brahmins; as also were veerashaiva gurus like Basavanna and his nephew Channabasavanna.

Well times do change don't they....mum also used to be restricted to one particular room during menses (even food wud be delivered to her in that room only). Mum stopped observing such things after she started going to college. Like mom, i restrict myself from entering the prayer area. but am not sure if my kids will observe even that...

After sanitary pads, female hygience washes and sprays wonder what more 'revolutionary' inventions are going to come....maybe one day in future women will have the choice to have menses for just 1 day in a month..

Regards.

 

[happyhindu]

I am really surprised that main question is not answered till now.the discussion is only about women and old customs why dont you get some vedic scollor opinion about my primary question ie anushtanam of theettu while in travel.

Ramani

Sir,

Hopfully you will find out the answer from your family guru or teachers and let others also know here..

 

[sangom]

please any one tell me

how many days/months, i have to avert religious funtions in the home on the death of my Athai( my fathers last sister)

thanks

Dear Anantha,

For a male the seetakam for atthai's demise is 3 days from the date of demise. If you get the news on the fourth day of demise, some people hold that only a bath is enough while some others observe 3 days from that day. But I tend to agree with the former because even for pitrus, if we get the news later than the tenth day, only bath is taken.

Of course, I am writing from experience since my copy of the authoritative ஆசௌச சிந்தாமணி is not readily traceable.

 

[girishsai]

Yes, the original question probably will never be addressed, since we do not want to check with our sastras or a guru. To cut to the chase, this what I have been trying to tell.

Sangom - As I stated there are a few gurus who practiced in our naked eyes 'Bhakthi without discipline'. Start from Adi Shanakara, Sri Ramanuju, Swami Ragavendra, Kanchi Maha swamigal all emphazied bhakthi with discipline in body and mind. Again they did not say anything new but re-iterated what is said in sastras. It is human mind to take the easy option as we see who got enlightened by less discipline. I'm not sure even they told their followers to follow the same way they did.

Every mantra in or ritual is aimed at the 'Welfare of the self and world'. Take for example, Sandhya vandanamm even when you do sankalapam we say 'Paremeswara or Narayana Preethyartham' and not 'mine or my family preethyartham'. The main purpose of sandhya vandanam is to wash away one's sins but if you take a deeper look at the meaning of the mantras we recite, it is directed at gods and universal welfare. We all also finally say 'Sarvam krisnarpanamasthy dedicating all the actions to lord who protects this world. Same too with Brahma Yajnam, another nitya karma. 'Lokha samastha sukhino bhavantu' a mantra that is uttered at the end of every ritual/sub-ritual signifies this too.

As Lord Sri Krishna says in Bhakthi Yoga, it is a whole lot better to do you karma yoga than renounciating it.

My opinions about rishis and sleeping with women were responses to one of the other replies in this post. I was saying that we think we are born with a more clear mind and is not necessary to follow acharas or anushtanas. So my reply was the great sages, rishis, sadhus, great avatars like Rama and krishna who were following all the acharas/anushtanas were less pure in mind than we were. Another opinion is to have boy/girl friends and be pure in mind. So was it okay to flirt around and keep telling nothing else matters? Will we for kiths/kins accept such a boy or a girl .Easy to preach than to practice.

 

[pannvalan]

'Madi' means clothes that are washed and neatly kept folded (madithu vaikkappattadhu). In those days, storwels/cup-boards were not in use. Only shelves with wooden planks with or without doors, embedded on to the side walls were used for keeping clothes. So, the underlying concept of 'madi' was clothes that were already worn once are not to be reused without getting washed and pressed. Similarly, clothes in a shabby or rumpled condition are not apt or fit for certain occasions or events or certain acts.

Next to brand new clothes, neatly washed and pressed clothes give out no odour or cause no discomfort to the wearer. Thus, good dressing plays a vital role in conditioning the body and mind.

More than this, there is no underlying meaning or objective for 'madi'.

 

[Iyyarooraan]

The concept of Theettu formed in those days cannot be truthfully followed in these days. It is enough to maintain high hygiene to one's own circumstance and capacity. Otherwise keep chanting 'Om Namashivaaya' which Panchaatcharam purifies your body and soul.

 

[Nara]

..... It is indeed a pity we do that and do not refer to what the sastras/gurus say in the regard and form our own opinion...

Dear girishsai, I don't know to what extent the above claim is true, but let me assure you, I have looked into this long and hard, the sashtras, its varied interpretations, achrays's edicts, et al. It is all knotted up in internal contradictions, no two "proper" guru agree, even on simple things. I am more familiar with SV practices, and they can't even agree how to wear thiruman.

Now, you cited Bhakti Yoga of Lord Sri Krishna, you know the Carama Solka of Srimat BG says, सर्व धर्मान् परित्यज्य मामॅकं शरणं व्रज (sarva dharmAn parityajya mAmEkam saraNam vraja). Each "proper" acharya interpret this verse differently. The apparent meaning seems to contradict your assertion that Bhakti without discipline is of no use, it seems Krishna wants the devout to abandon all discipline you are talking about and just have Bhakti for him.

.. Well if you see nothing wrong in that then I would say practice what you preach, will we let our kiths and kins marry a woman if we knew she had an affair before and now she tells her conscious is clear.

These kinds of challenges have no meaning. RVR issued a similar pointless challenge sometime back. I can say yes to this and why would that not be self-serving? If I say no I won't, I will be convicting myself. The choice is to self-convict or be self-serving.

Leave that aside, let me say this at the risk of getting accused of being self-serving, if two people trust each other and are in love, I will not look at the antecedents of the individuals, I will support them wholeheartedly, and will even hold a brief for them. I have done it. As the cliche goes, all saints have a past, and "sinners" have a future.

Cheers!

 

[sangom]

... Another opinion is to have boy/girl friends and be pure in mind. So was it okay to flirt around and keep telling nothing else matters? Will we for kiths/kins accept such a boy or a girl .Easy to preach than to practice.

Shri Girishsai,

If you think that today only pure virgins should be eligible for marriage, it is very difficult. I had mentioned the authentic experience of a TB lady gynaecologist who was practising in Chennai some years ago, about the increasing number of unmarried TB girls coming for abortion. Since this has become almost risk-free in the first few weeks of pregnancy and the concerned girl needs only a few hours' observation in the clinic/hospital, it seems they cut classes for a day on some pretext, get the abortion done and return home in the evening and even the girl's parents would not come to know about it.

Since the world has changed so much and so fast, it will be necessary for all of us to "go along with the world" unless anyone of us has the greatness and the grit to oppose the world and correct its course.

Since Lord Krishna has long ago given a firm assurance to the effect that "yadaa yadaa hi dharmasya glaanir bhavati...abhyutthaanam adharmasya tathaatmaanam sr^jaamyaham", we can safely conclude that the dharma has not yet been sullied/degraded and adharma has not yet raised its head, as otherwise Krishna should have "created from himself (aatmaanam sr^jaami)" by now!! No need to worry about all these things, therefore.

(BTW, Krishna is equivocal about the "what for" of his "creating from himself"; he does not clearly say, in that sloka. In the next sloka there is a declaration about "paritraanaaya saadhoonaam..." but it is only once in a yuga and not exactly whenever (yadaa yadaa) the conditions in the previous sloka are at hand.)

 

[girishsai]

To a large extent yes, we all do that by compromising on a lot of things. For eg. by sastras Brahmins should not work at all and only be performing yajnams for the welfare of the mankind and other varnas should support his basic needs. As Gita says no dharma is superior or inferiror.

Back to ethics, and we aligning with the world theory , do you think we should accept and resign to the fact the we should marry non-virgins (as you quoted nowadays it is too days to find a TB virgin girl). If probably we are not a virgin ourselves it kinds of evens out but if one of those is prisitine and later the truth comes out how does their life pan out? I guess this is getting pretty complicated for all of them involved and all the more reasons for following sastras and their teachings. If you ask me if some one is going to agree or accept it, absolutely not. We all now say if consicious (mind or MANA SAKTCHI) is clear then all is good. As Maha periyavaa says and the name indicates 'MANA SAKTCHI' is at best a wtiness and not a judge. This is presently the reason you see today there is more of moral and ethical violations. The judge is the sastras just like we have the present consitituion of today and yesteryears across the globe for various countries and cultures. Now every Mana saktchi is a judge and every individual has a sastra/doctrine/theory of his own.

The Lord comes down to earth when the Adarma is at its peak in various yugas and there is little dharma around. There is still som goodness around but we should agree that bad is constantly on the rise.

 

[happyhindu]

Yes, the original question probably will never be addressed, since we do not want to check with our sastras or a guru.

Sir,

As such, how many brahmins today are telling agamarshana suktam while taking bath, vasodaka mantram while squeezing out water from wet cloth; and shikodaka mantram while drying the shikha and body ?? So where goes theetu even for normal days?

 

[girishsai]

I agree with you, since we do not do any of these things in today's world the prescribed path is to Sandhya Vandanam which washes away the sins as well as for universal welfare. Per sastras, any karma you do without performing sandhya vandanam is in vain. In kali yuga, the dharma is Nama Japa so even if we are not able to perform these rituals for whatever reason let us repent for it and pray to god sincerely and do nama japa.

 

[happyhindu]

I agree with you, since we do not do any of these things in today's world the prescribed path is to Sandhya Vandanam which washes away the sins as well as for universal welfare. Per sastras, any karma you do without performing sandhya vandanam is in vain. In kali yuga, the dharma is Nama Japa so even if we are not able to perform these rituals for whatever reason let us repent for it and pray to god sincerely and do nama japa.

Dear Sir,

Am so sorry to be asking this if this is going to rub the wrong way. But am curious. You say sandhayvandanam washes away sins and also results in universal welfare. How can you be so sure about that sir?

Let us say, a brahmin takes a bribe of Rs.1,00,000. He took that bribe from a struggling man. While giving that bribe, that poor man must have cursed the brahmin official much. By doing Sandhyavandanam, can this brahmin offical get rid of his sins? And even cause universal welfare? Such scenarios are rather common in northern India. Hence, am curious.

Regards.

 

[AnanthaNarayanan]

Dear Anantha,

For a male the seetakam for atthai's demise is 3 days from the date of demise. If you get the news on the fourth day of demise, some people hold that only a bath is enough while some others observe 3 days from that day. But I tend to agree with the former because even for pitrus, if we get the news later than the tenth day, only bath is taken.

Of course, I am writing from experience since my copy of the authoritative ஆசௌச சிந்தாமணி is not readily traceable.

Dear sri Sangom ji,
thanks for the reply, further i would like to know how long i should not celeberate the religious/temple functions such as krishnashtami or chathurthy etc. and is there any objection in going to the temples ? if so how long.. please tell me. hope i am not troubling you. thanks

 

[sangom]

Dear sri Sangom ji,
thanks for the reply, further i would like to know how long i should not celeberate the religious/temple functions such as krishnashtami or chathurthy etc. and is there any objection in going to the temples ? if so how long.. please tell me. hope i am not troubling you. thanks

For athai, who is not a "sapinda" relative the observance as above will alone be sufficient, but in actual practice, since one would go to athai's house and be present till the "grihayajnam" on the 13th. day, normally people refrain from any celebration, temple-going, etc. till the 13th. day; exceptions areof course there, like for example the first birthday of your child/grandchild, nephew/niece, etc. when one will have to go to temple as part of the celebrations.

Depending upon the extent of regard to the demised athai (a friend of mine and his siblings were brought up by their widowed, childless athai, since their mother expired after giving birth to 5 or 6 children and their father did not remarry, he observed an year's mourning as a mark of his respect and devotion to her memory. Probably he is also arranging for annadaanam on her sraaddha day; but these are all personal-not prescribed by smritis-, though these are excellent examples of human attitudes to those who helped them.

 

[kunjuppu]

After sanitary pads, female hygience washes and sprays wonder what more 'revolutionary' inventions are going to come....maybe one day in future women will have the choice to have menses for just 1 day in a month..

Regards.

happy,

i think there are already drugs which can stop or prevent menstruation.

interestingly, a few years ago, there was also a poll taken among american women. surprisingly the majority of them would rather keep the monthly cycle - the reason given being that it 'defined their feminity'.

though there were many who said they would welcome the new drugs.

personally while mum observed the untouchable ritual in our home, as soon as i married, i indicated to my wife, that this was not my way of looking at things. even though she came from a house, which semi-followed the ritual, she had no issue, shedding those inhibitions like a pair of worn out socks.

my daughter does not even know or is aware of restrictions. to her it is a private health affair, and no one else's business

 

[kgopalan]

I am going to give my opinions. It will be a very big one . This universe is created from pancha budhas Air Water Tire Earthand sky. in some particular proportion. Your body is also in some another proportion.It is working like a computor. during the working time some negativisam is also forming; to remove this negativisam chanting of vedas,homams,meditations are required. to lessen this negativisam some people are required. they have selected some people and named as brahmins

This group of people ( say this is one department in this universe) must study vedas sastras and puranas and after finishing their studies they must go the king and request the king to help him . The King will give him ample Money, servats .Lands. and cattles. This brahmin will start reciting vedas , doing sandhyavandhanam oupasanam; snanam; teaching vedas to his students ;evening sandhya; oupasanam; This brahmin is not only doing this for his family but also all the requirements to his srevants animals and lands; birds;etc;

By giving more positivism to the universe he is lessening the negativisam; in the first yuga kretha yuga. here he needs more aacharam and anushtanam.
You know 6 chakras in your body from mooladharam to swadhistanam to agya chakram There are also 6 chakras above your head and 6 chakras below your foot;You are having inner aura about 2 inches above all over your body and outer aura all over your body 4 feet around your body. Special photo can be taken and we can show your aura to you. now it is possible.The chakras are in your inner aura; These chakras are the rooms for your sins and punyahs; Only your unknowingly done small sins will go away by doing sandhyavandhanam and by aachara murai ;

 

[kgopalan]

()There will be no problem to your car which is recently purchased. But it will go for service at particular intervals); when ever more money is required this brahmin will go to the king and get ample money. In this kretha yuga ladies can get remarried; deer meat is a must for srardham. Rishis can give birth by their thoughts itself to children; trees;herbs;birds;animals; there was no sex intercourse at that time.. Then in thretha yuga .pillayar and sasthas are worshipped with their wives; no tirupathy venkatachalapthy. In kali yuga darma sastra denies ladies remarriage; denies taking meat;ganapathy and ayyapan are bachlers. and venkatachalapathy in tirupathy in the first quarter of kaliyuga,

To remove the brahmahathi dosham from Indra Lord Indra gave 25%to ladies and to earth etc; In turn Lord Indra gave the varans to ladies. Then only sexual intercourse started; During pregnancy Period they will not conceive .etc;

Uterus is being cleaned with 6 ounces blood taken from the body and with the help of some secretions in the uterus to clean and to remove the female old eggs from uterus . body cannot take 6 ounces at one time . In three days the bodytakes 6 ounces of blood and with other secretions the uterus ix being cleaned. This cleaning materials and bloodm and old female eggs are coming out. can you use ditch water for any purpose? This menses liquid is having more negativisam. you are also responsible to keep the universe with more positivisam. Then what should you do. The outer aura of the lady is 4 feet and the outer aura of your is 4feet. so they must be away from you 8m feet.to avoid getting negativisam from them;

Consuming onions,garlic,pattai; sombu masalas; drumstick; snake guard;peerkankai;suraikai are also giving more negativisam. also seeing cricket and t v serials makes the mind worse and useless; Your mind must be with you without wandering itself during manthra japa; homam; meditation etc;yourlife time is only 100 years in kaliyuga in which childage,oldage, and sleep takes 50 years, Naama sangeerthana for some time is enoug in kali yuga. there is no king to give you money , you have to work hard to make both ends meet, this theetu will do nothing it will only afeect your mind concentration will be difficult, take some medicines to get concentration and donot bother for theetu by taking bath or by changing poonal. It is only to those who are always doing manthra japam, homams and meditation. to be continued

 

[girishsai]

Nara - I guess there are still a few things needs to be looked at long and hard, may be we are going a little off-base here as to the subject of this thread, but let me continue.

1. Can you tell me what are the major contradictions that two "proper" gurus had? As you mentioned, agreement on wearing thiruman, did one guru accuse the other is completely wrong or did he just emphasize his point of view ?? We had great saints in Sri Adi Shankara, who spread the Advaita, Swami Ramanuja "Vishistha Advaitha" and Sri Madhwacharya "Dwaita". Now even though the three philosophies are radically different, did they ever say the other philosophy is wrong. Absolutely not. These were the teachings were based on the TIME PERIOD AND PEOPLE. When Sri Shankara came all was Sunyam as per Buddhism and re-iterated the principle of Advaita, when Sri Ramanujacharya came people went overboard and all thought and acted as gods without having the attributes of it and the same goes to Sri Madhwacharya too. The above was just an instance of contrasting philosophies and theories but no guru accused or pointed finger at each other. Because they all know there is only one and only truth in this world the absolute Brahman and its breathe "VEDAS and SASTRAS". Has any "proper" guru has said what is said in Veda or Sastras or even part of it is absurd or wrong? No. What they do is emphasize and align to the principles that they are teaching the present generation. Please remember whatever is being taught by the various "proper" gurus is all not their theories or interpretations of Vedam/Sastras but the various principles/theories in sastras. We should not think it is being interpreted differently. I think this was what sri kbgoplan was pointing as well. Let me give you an example. We all do Sandhyavandanam, there are a few rituals that gets changed as per the customs and traditions (Saiva/Vaishnavam) but the base Gayatri Mantra is the root and no body disputes that. The building or base or root is the vedas and sastras and there is never tinkered with or disputed with.

On point 2, I'm not sure why it is a pointless challenge but any man or woman worth his/her salt finds out that either partner slept with someone he will surely be disheartened. They may be blind sighted by love at that time and you may support it but it will not work out in the long run since relationships work on one simple theory, FAITH. If there is ever suspicion on it then the whole thing gets chaotic.

 

[girishsai]

Happy Hindu - This is not too complicated. Forget Sandhyavandanam, if you do good things as prescribed by sastras and parallely do bad things it is going to have mixed reactions and is termed as 'Mishra Karma' per sastras. Obvioulsy it is your karma and god decides what will be the extent of it.

The moral of the story is we have to strive to do good in a sincere way, if we just do rituals or prayers just for the heck of it and continue our merry ways you get mixed results for good and bad. Attimes based on the intentions of the indvidual it may completely be counter-productive too, just like consuming a perfect medicine with a wrong diet. It is the Lord that determines that.

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

Sri kgopalan,

Referring your post no.45 I find some interesting points noted by you,like cleaning...with...6 ounces ..etc. Whether we agree or no OR whether they are based on presented day scientific facts etc, I would like to know ,the original reference from where this points are reproduced.

While some similar things I had heard in the group discusions by elders in time pass moods, my"scientific' mind ignored all those, Now that you have posted them here, it has kindled my curiosity to know whether they at least come near to the scientific facts.


Greetings.

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

. In this kretha yuga ladies can get remarried; deer meat is a must for srardham. Rishis can give birth by their thoughts itself to children; trees;herbs;birds;animals; there was no sex intercourse at that time.. Then in thretha yuga .pillayar and sasthas are worshipped with their wives; no tirupathy venkatachalapthy. In kali yuga darma sastra denies ladies remarriage; denies taking meat;ganapathy and ayyapan are bachlers. and venkatachalapathy in tirupathy in the first quarter of kaliyuga,

Sri kgopalan,

Yugas are not so small a time , which you can summarise in one line.

What we get referred is the unit of one chatur yuga in which the present kaliyuga is
the fourth. Not to say such innumerous units of chatur yugas, in each kalpa,manvanthara etc etc....and going on and on.... Creation , sustenance,destruction, again creation...

The concept of time really baffles me always. How it was calculated from the low 'ima'..and progressing to pitru varsha,deva varsha etc.. It will be futile to trace back and pin point these to any particular point in the vast time space.

Our panchangas used to give the occurrence of eclipses perfectly ,even before the advent of computers. These calculations were made by simple down-to earth people without any aid of any sophisticated machines, and even before any modern storage and preservation methods were available. It can be presumed that the knowledge travelled down by mouth-to-ear chain path for generations and generations, over thousands of years.

Trying to get to the root is futile because of such vastness of time. Most such research results are based on some available material and juxta posing them with some other material and projecting backwards or forwards within the limitations of guesswork. It will be good for an academic exercise.

Coming back to yuga, there is a yuga dharma in each yuga.There are yuga purushas also.

Even veda and veda vyasa change .If discussed, it will go on and on.... Some can dispute and negate all this by saying just one "No".

A sea may contain anything under the water. The beach goer enjoys the breeze, wondering at the vastness of the sea. He gets what he wants. The fisherman goes and gets what he wants. The sea diver enjoys his diving. A sailor goes further and sails to far away shores.

Each one has his own way of appreciation and understanding.

I would like further inputs in these regards. Some/most may be known to many /some , for others it may be new.



Greetings

 

[SALEM]

To HH madam a very good Q? AS for as the theetu is only started from the Telugu Brahmins entered in Tamilnadu for their livehood.The time of vedic Brahmins of Tamilnadu never use this word, no concern documents ready to support this. The olden days Brahmens were following only Guru and his teachings,so many Brahmin Ganis even not accepted untouchablity,for ex Sridhariyyaval life. so many. Best thing After return from Bus,Rail travel took a Bath is good for health and you can save from so called Theetu. s.r.k.