Time For Brahmins To Change At Least in Marriages

[P.J.]

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Time For Brahmins To Change At Least in Marriages


I came across this thought provoking article and thought that it is worth sharing here

Please go through the entire article before you start commenting upon



Marriages

There is a tendency among most of the parents, whose daughter’s are employed, and more so if they have only one daughter:


That of postponing the marriage of their daughters as long as possible.

The reasons they cite are,,


The girl does not want to marry now,

She needs to be independent for some time, earning well to enable her to stand on her feet,


The arguments are fallacious.


No Girl or Boy will come to their parents and declare that they want to marry and ask them to look for a suitable spouse.


They would be coy in admitting the fact that it is time for them to get married.


I am excluding those children who come and declare that they are in love with some one(normally with one from another caste: even this I attribute to the fact of parents delaying the marriage on one pretext or another.


As parents it is our responsibility to advise them the advantages of getting married at an early age, the reasons being,


a ) If you are looking for the Best looking woman or Man, remember that the opposite side also does the same and each has the privilege of rejecting.


b) You do not get any younger and it would be tougher to get a match as time marches on.


And taking children’s views of not wanting to get married has few serious consequences for parents as well.


I know of a couple of cases, where the parents have stopped looking for alliances because their children said so.


These parents, they are my close friends,took their children’s views seriously and stopped looking for a match.


Now the boys are past 35.

They have stopped speaking with their parents thought they stay in the same house and are alright in all other respects.




They are sore that their parents have taken their views seriously!


Lesson- go about alliances notwithstanding your children’s objections and record them.
If they refuse, show them the records , that would keep them on their toes.


Another repulsive habit of parents of brides insisting that thee Bride groom must be in the city were the girls’ parents live!


The girls might agree to it for the time being , would regret later when they find they remain unmarried for long.


Children have their lives to led, be it a Boy or Girl.


Another obnoxious habit is that some parents are reluctant to get their daughters married because they will lose their daughter’s salary!



This is a fact if they are after money they should not have begotten children!




Please check Tamil matrimony marriage site, find out how many girls’ profile have been uploaded by the Girls themselves/their friends as against the profiles uploaded by Parents.


You will find personal/friends uploads will be in the age group of over 27.


The reason is parents keep on refusing Alliances on some spurious ground or another and at the age of 27 or 28 the girl starts taking her life into their hands.


Avoid this and remember delaying the marriage of a Girl is a very serious Sin , Kanya Paapam that would affect your family for generations, not with standing Sumangali Prarthnais.


Another issue is refusing sub sect marriages.


Sub-sects are based on Geographical locations where the ancestors have lived, like Mythili Brahmins hailed from Mithila, Vadamas in Tamil Nadu were from the North of the River Cauvery.


Some times Brahmin sub-sects are derived from the duties they were adept at. Adigas in Cooking, Vaathimaas in Purohitam,Vajpayees,Somayajees in performing a particular. yaga or yagnya


Among Brahmins there is no division of States or Languages either.


We follow the Vedas, period.No differences.


I observe that people conduct reception before the wedding day.

This is wrong.


If some one of the pair dies after Reception before marriage, what is the status of either of them?


The habit of clapping of hands after Mangalya Dharana, it is prohibited.


The habit of shaking hands with the couple after Mangalya Dharana before Aseervatha is a Taboo.


In Hinduism . the ‘Handing Over’ Panigrahana is Sacred and the hands of the couple are not to be touched by others till Aseervatha.


https://ramanan50.wordpress.com/2013/06/28/time-for-brahmins-to-change-at-least-in-marriages/

 

[yesmohan]

Every thing is "excellent" and mostly appear as advice to the parents of girls.
But "title" in my opinion is not much apt.

 

[rishikesan]

Dear Mr. P.J Your proposal of meeting me , still eluding. You are busy & active in almost all types of Topics pertaining t Tamil brahmins.. Let me comment on One vital point from what you have written. Reception on the Night before marriage Why ? As per my study these are the reasons :-1) All males are literally dominated by women. There should be No shame in accepting , because, by & large you have to accept their domination,They take decisions with a group of women on all such , so called prohibited procedure.?
This has been proved to be very convenient & all have welcomed & gladly follow. Why should you think of The Rare of thr Rarest & even it occurs one in a Lakh, why should any one bother ? It will be taken in right stride in this progressive world.
one Point is paramount in my mind & I do feel that only after about TWO decades ther present day married couples would face a real Problem. It relates to the Age difference ? You think over ?

A.Srinvasan

 

[mkrishna100]

a ) If you are looking for the Best looking woman or Man, remember that the opposite side also does the same and each has the privilege of rejecting.


b) You do not get any younger and it would be tougher to get a match as time marches on.

I know of case in my own family when one of my Cousins daughter who after studying here went to USA for further studies and is putting conditions after conditions for her marriage and to such an extent that for more than 3 years she is only rejecting every proposal saying the boy is short or too tall and if he is the same height she finds him bald or bit fat and if physically he is perfect then by qualifications she finds fault and if qualifications is also matching then she says he is in another city and if he is in the same city ( or willing to relocate to the same city ) then she says his salary is not good enough and if by chance everything works out well she says she does not like Rahu Ketu ( i.e the new name for the inlways ) i.,e the inlwas are not up to her taste etc and poor parents have got fed up & lost hope and told her to find a match for herself and they also gave ther the green signal that if she wants she can find a groom from other Caste also but at the same time warned her that every year she keeps rejecting she is growing older and soon she will end up also in the rejection category .

 

[tbs]

I know of case in my own family when one of my Cousins daughter who after studying here went to USA for further studies and is putting conditions after conditions for her marriage and to such an extent that for more than 3 years she is only rejecting every proposal saying the boy is short or too tall and if he is the same height she finds him bald or bit fat and if physically he is perfect then by qualifications she finds fault and if qualifications is also matching then she says he is in another city and if he is in the same city ( or willing to relocate to the same city ) then she says his salary is not good enough and if by chance everything works out well she says she does not like Rahu Ketu ( i.e the new name for the inlways ) i.,e the inlwas are not up to her taste etc and poor parents have got fed up & lost hope and told her to find a match for herself and they also gave ther the green signal that if she wants she can find a groom from other Caste also but at the same time warned her that every year she keeps rejecting she is growing older and soon she will end up also in the rejection category .

hi

it happens in most cases...especially girls.....i know one story in USA....she is eldest and doing MD in USA....first she said...

she wants complete her study....then residency....then she wants independent for sometimes....then she said she does

not believe in marriage certificate/thali etc....she tried some other white guys.....now she fed up...still single....above 45 yrs...

now she wants marriage and children.....wht to do the parents?.....dadyy kept quiet now....she warned many times to get

married.....she was rehecting mood then....now mom is worried too much?....now her younger brother and younger sister got married

with 2 kids each....but the eldest still single.......i think more career oriented gals suffer more....

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Another suggestion is to restrict the Brahmin marriages to one day only, instead of two days or three days, to save money, time and to reduce wastages.

 

[sangom]

Traditionally, woman was considered to be nothing more than a subservient housewife, amongst us brahmins. But this position no longer holds good today. Girls are sent, if it is possible, to higher and higher studies, even abroad, by parents who can do so. Girls also do better in most academic studies as compared to boys. The result is that generally girls get better paying jobs more easily than our brahmin boys do.

Because of the growing women's emancipation and equality for women, both of which are nurtured by the feminism movement worldwide, many girls/young women are no longer interested in the traditional kind of marriage in which the wife is next only to the husband; the girls/women want to be the first in their household, people who will call (all) the shots. The proposals coming through matrimonial sites, other horoscope exchange routes, friends and busy bodies who go around doing "matching" service, etc., are almost always of the traditional kind and hence girls in general refuse all such proposals. It may happen that under this sort of attempts at marriage, some girls become highly overaged and have to retire at last from the matrimonial scene altogether and live the rest of their life as single people. But that has to be taken as part of the risk in the evolution of our (brahmin) society.

Brahmin "ambis" who are brought up in the traditional way and are unable to get some very lucrative job, are the losers in the game, because these "ambis" start craving uncontrollably for a female company right when they are in their early twenties and have to go on crying endlessly till they reach 45 or 50 without any success and then join some ISKCON or some other sanyasi outfit and spend the rest of life. Even if such "ambis" get married as a result of the herculean effort or bhageeratha prayatna of parents, it will not last beyond the first few months because our brahmin girls of today detest such "ambis" and want a man of their dreams only!

Ramanan's blog reproduced in the OP is like a fossil of ancient brahmanic desire. Performing "reception" on the day previous to marriage cannot be faulted because even in our traditional kind of marriage, there was an element of "reception" to the sambandhis, VIP relatives from girl's side and office friends, etc.
Shaking hands with the bride is also not a great sin or something because we have long forgotten or discarded knowingly many other stipulations connected with brahmin marriages. So, why just get hold of one hair from the elephant's tail and then try to impress others that you have got the entire elephant in your grips?!

 

[mkrishna100]

It may happen that under this sort of attempts at marriage, some girls become highly overaged and have to retire at last from the matrimonial scene altogether and live the rest of their life as single people.

LOL True

 

[sarang]

So the problem is with parents, boys and girls; there cannot be a common solution. One thing is certain; late marriage brings its own problems - I see more expectant/despondant couples in fertility clinics.

There is already pressure to reduce age of consent for marriage to 14 minus in west. Indian courts too have not cancelled marriages of boys and girls when both are minor, if the marriage is solemnised with approval of all parties.

Non tambram boys and girls are more evolved in this respect, as they still respect old values and traditions, listen to their parents and put family first.

 

[renuka]

I am surprised to know that couples in India have the reception before the wedding..isnt that not allowed per tradition? Cos without being married how to appear in public openly standing with each other greeting guest when anything can happen between the reception and the marriage..even 1 minute is enough to stop a marriage...so the bride is not supposed to be displayed with the groom without being married first.

In fact there is an unwritten rule that the bride and groom can not see each other starting 1 week before the marriage....no outings too.

Out here all receptions are only held after the marriage.

First the boy's side gives the reception and followed by the girls side reception a few days later.

Also there is no habit of shaking hands with bride out here...some might want to shake hands with the groom mostly friends shake hands with the groom but no one shakes hands with the bride cos a bride is not supposed to be touched as far as the custom goes.

So come to think of it out here where I stay its more conservative!LOL

 

[krish44]

I believe getting married has become has become very difficult as pressures of modern living and high material and other expectations of boys and girls and their parents has made

it very difficult to zero in on a match.

IMHO it is very easy to get married or get anyone married if one is serious in 3 to 4 months.

If people are minimalist concentrating on education ,job alone with large inclusions of various subcastes comprising the brahmin community as the target and leave it

to the boy and girl to make the choice, it would be very easy.

Unfortunately most parents specially single child parents worry about their own status after marriage of their child. as many are economically or physically have to

depend on the child and require their support.

This leads to parents being extra choosey or postponing the marriage -basically evading,postponing or avoiding the issue for as many years as possible.

When the youngsters cross 26-27 yrs ,the youngsters try taking upon themselves the process of finding a mate which leads in many cases to distress due to non acceptance

by parents on various grounds the matches the youngsters have selected

match making requires facilitators/counsellors who can help marriages to happen .

If only some take upon themselves in large families to find matches for youngsters in their circle ,it can help many of them.The gaps between youngsters and parents are so much that

marriage finalisation requires an external agency to intervene and bridge the gaps and make marriage possible.

 

[krish44]

I have been long an advocate of low cost engagements and marriages.

Some basics I press for in any engagement or marriage

!. Restrict engagement/ marriage attendance to relatives and very close friends

2. Have reception for friends and office colleagues with marginally more numbers.

3. Try restricting the number of dishes in Reception and muhurtham to a reasonable number. Avoid wastage by arranging buffet for receptions

4. Not use up more than one evening before and half day for marriage and arrange them on weekends not to waste working days of all attending the marriage

If marriage day expenses are curtailed ,it leaves some money for the marrying couple to set up their home after marriage.

Most overspend due to faulty estimates of number of guests attending wedding and some end up also sometimes not looking after those who grace marriages.

Marriages have become dreaded events in some cases for those getting into marriages and others attending them.

The next day after marriage look in some cases like the day after in disaster struck places, people involved nursing their material and emotional wounds suffered during the

days leading to marriage and on the actual marriage day.Finally many are glad it is over and done with .

 

[yesmohan]

Another suggestion is to restrict the Brahmin marriages to one day only, instead of two days or three days, to save money, time and to reduce wastages.

Good suggestion. Some people already started doing it by mentioning it the invitation itself.

 

[tbs]

Another suggestion is to restrict the Brahmin marriages to one day only, instead of two days or three days, to save money, time and to reduce wastages.

hi

in USA...generally wedding ceremony for an hour....dinner and reception all together 3 to 4 hours....

 

[yesmohan]

So come to think of it out here where I stay its more conservative!LOL

Now I am put to test and made to refer the meaning of “conservative “ in dictionary.

 

[krish44]

There needs to be a rent control act limiting the exorbitant amounts charged by owners of marriage halls as rent for the premises and facilities offered along with it.

most end up paying also for a dozen or more employees of the owner. Similarly the extras like stage decorations ,furniture add to costs. The timings for charging rentals

are so framed that most end up paying for at least two days for about 24 hours occupation. Most do not return the advance paid in event of cancellation of hall due to

various reasons. Many are forced to book months in advance for an event . In many cases the scarcity is artificially created. There is an organised crowd called

wedding planners who make a killing by blocking and reselling venues in collaboration with marriage contractors. It is a big money game. Most out of prestige like to

opt for well known halls paying exorbitant charges.The halls are often oversized with a dozen rooms with sometimes AC also.Most of the spending is unwarranted.

 

[Lalit]

While we are still deliberating on the number of days and the expenses for a grand marriage, I am really amazed to see the following news-item on how a Turkish couple spent their wedding day feeding 4000 Syrian refugees:i100 dot independent dot co dot uk / article/ a-Turkish-couple spent-their wedding-day-feeding- 4000 - Syrian refugees - ZJKtZfieVI

Yes, it's TIME to change!

 

[krish44]

Changes in the way marriages are conducted will happen ,not because of pious wish of some senior citizens. It will ultimately be the economics dictating the changes.

In most cases, girls parents and girls themselves due to becoming economic entities are refusing to put up with an order passing on most of the costs of marriage to girls

and their parents. They are prepared to look elsewhere to other communities who will accept them without high finance commitments in the worst case option. brahmin

boys appear to be doomed in this evolving scenario.in matrimonial forums, every brahmin educated girl gets 10 times the response as compared to males. They can

afford to pick and choose.They are coldly setting terms with minimum financial commitments while exercising their choice of mate..

 

[sangom]

Changes in the way marriages are conducted will happen ,not because of pious wish of some senior citizens. It will ultimately be the economics dictating the changes.

In most cases, girls parents and girls themselves due to becoming economic entities are refusing to put up with an order passing on most of the costs of marriage to girls

and their parents. They are prepared to look elsewhere to other communities who will accept them without high finance commitments in the worst case option. brahmin

boys appear to be doomed in this evolving scenario.in matrimonial forums, every brahmin educated girl gets 10 times the response as compared to males. They can

afford to pick and choose.They are coldly setting terms with minimum financial commitments while exercising their choice of mate..

I think the brahmin girls want a marriage as lavish as possible, but the bill only is passed on to the boy's side nowadays because of the supply-demand position! I am yet to find a Tamil brahmin girl getting married in a small temple with about 50 people attending the ceremony!

 

[yesmohan]

I think the brahmin girls want a marriage as lavish as possible, but the bill only is passed on to the boy's side nowadays because of the supply-demand position! I am yet to find a Tamil brahmin girl getting married in a small temple with about 50 people attending the ceremony!

Sir
Well said.
Senior citizens also advocate economy in marriages.
In most of the TB marriages as date, groom is also sharing partial / total expenses.
Girls are already started looking elsewhere for reason obvious.
In matrimonial sites for grooms get almost no responses. All roads lead to Rome; most responses are to the brides only.
In matrimonial sites, grooms could not pick and choose, as beggars are not choosers

 

[mkrishna100]

In matrimonial sites for grooms get almost no responses. All roads lead to Rome; most responses are to the brides only.
In matrimonial sites, grooms could not pick and choose, as beggars are not choosers

History repeating only that now boys and their parents are getting the taste of the bitter medicine that were inflicted on girls and their parents 3-4 decades back .

 

[Raji Ram]

​This thread has gone far away from the points in the OP!

 

[krish44]

​This thread has gone far away from the points in the OP!

RRji
We are expecting you to list out changes you would expect to see in brahmin marriages-the way they are finalised and performed .

We could hear many unpleasant truths about brahmin marriages and what all we could do away with.

We would be left with very little to hold on to as sacred in brahmin marriages .Perhaps We would realise our marriages are no different from marriages of other communities.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Krish Sir,

The OP is about the brahmin girls rejecting brahmin boys and about the age they are getting married!

Anyway, since you have asked me for my views, here are some changes I would like to happen.

1. Number of invitees for the wedding could be restricted to the minimum.

2. A dinner party could be arranged later, as per the size of the purse of the bride and groom's side.

3. Carrying the bride and groom during 'mAlai mAtral' should STOP. It is awkward to see in many cases! :yuck:

4. If the bride weighs more than 50 kg, she should sit only on a chair and not on her dad's laps. :nono:

(One poor dad collapsed when his guNdu daughter sat on his laps, during 'mAngalya dhAraNam'! :faint2: )

5. 'Kattu sAdham' could be given soon after the wedding ceremony; all relatives and friends to be sent off with due respect.

6. 'Nalungu' could be arranged in the groom's house, IF the newly weds really want it.

7. Gifts to the newly weds could be in cash and no circulation of unwanted items, in the name of gifts! :nono:

 

[krish44]

RRji
That does not answer the basic issue-How to make brahmin girls accept brahmin boys with their accomplishments and faults ?

How to bring down the marriage age of boys.?

Girls are able to find a match at any age . But no one wants these old boys[if they can be called boys].

Who is to blame for this crisis in brahmin community.?

The changes you have suggested are slowly happening as they are decided by economics and convenience mostly and religion does not come in the way.