Unpacking Paramacharya's Words

[Chintana]

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Sri KRS,

Again a detailed response has to wait.

About the alternatives question - could you please read my ideas posted as a response to Hari and express your views?

Thanks,
Chintana

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

What distinguishes the Tamil Brahmin community? It is the culture and common traditions. Not our religious observances. The uniting factor is the common culture.

I wonder why we need any other system. We are all Tamil Brahmins by tradition and culture.

May be this has been discussed before. But even a new thread about our culture and traditions can be started.

I am not really comfortable posting in this thread because of the heading.

Sadasiva samarambhaam
Sankaracharya madhyamam
Asmadacharya paryantham
Vandhe Guru Paramparam.

 

[Chintana]

What distinguishes the Tamil Brahmin community? It is the culture and common traditions. Not our religious observances. The uniting factor is the common culture.

I wonder why we need any other system. We are all Tamil Brahmins by tradition and culture.

May be this has been discussed before. But even a new thread about our culture and traditions can be started.

I am not really comfortable posting in this thread because of the heading.

Sadasiva samarambhaam
Sankaracharya madhyamam
Asmadacharya paryantham
Vandhe Guru Paramparam.

I hope the revised title sets you at ease, Sri Nacchinarkiniyan.

Regards,
Chintana

 

[Chintana]

Dear Sri KRS,

Dear Sowbhagyavathi Chinatana Ji,

I only bring up both the esoteric and the exoteric within the context of all the paths available to a peron in the current Indian society. Both of these aspects are a very much part of our religion. For example, Advaitha is a philosophy that has the esoteric aspect well developed, while the Dvaitha of the Madhvas has a well developed exoteric aspect of our religion (Ramanuja's philosophy falls somewhere in between). But they all are part of our religion today.

So, when one talks about our religion, one has to talk about one's life objective of not only attaining salvation for oneself, but also about one's relationship to one's family and then to the society and the world. One does not live as an island to oneself. Our religion understands this and hence the term 'Varnashrama Dharma'.

I see that but we need a breakdown of these concepts into more digestable pieces.



Now, one can seperate Swadharma from this and discuss it along the four paths. But then, whether you are a bachelor, a householder, a sanyasin, your dharma also includes to your relationship to the world.

Such dharma toward the external world will automatically become clear to the one who is internally perceptive. The Varnashrama Dharma is merely a guiding point. Not a substitute for an internal sense of discrimination toward realizing and practicing dharma.

For example, not everyone can become a sanyasi. In fact becoming a sanyasi just to run away from the responsibilities of a grahastha for example is not acceptable in our religion (Please read Swami Vivekanada's teachings on this topic).

Thank you.

Yes, not everybody can become a sannyasi. But all of us are expected to work toward developing an inner detachment (this is made possible by devotion, right activity and yogic techniques, particularly raja yoga).

I still believe it is possible to discuss the esoteric and exoteric as successive phases of any discussion.

It is hard to address both fully at the same time as one is about the external and the other is about the internal.


When we talk about influences of other cultures in India, my point is that the options available to a person are quite varied and as such we have to recognize that as a society we do not live in the Vedic times anymore. So when we talk about our religion and community these influences should be noted, albeit in the material realm.

But do you realize that talking about everything at once contributes to confusion rather than clarity?

Could we do one thing at a time please?

It is one thing to be able to understand the relationship between and among everything but quite another to express it clearly.

I believe if you break it up and deal with one piece at a time the responses to your valuable views will be much greater. More importantly I believe that the misunderstandings will be much lesser.

As it stands mixing up these two aspects presents itself as a bit of an information-overload.


So, in my mind, the Varna system is something we can not escape from or ignore when we talk about our society. The solution to our current problems as the Tamil Brahmin society, lies in not ignoring or saying that the esoteric and the exoteric are slimly connected in our religion, but rather to find a way to harmonize the two.

So please start clarifying one before moving on to another.

Our religion started exoterically with the need to do sacrifices and rites, performed by the Brahmins. We can not and should not throw this away. The solution for any tackling of the modern life issue would therefore include both the esoteric and the exoteric.

Yes. Your concerns are valid and they are noted. I hope this discussion will shed some light on this.

Hope, I am explaining myself adequately, because I do not have the power of language to help me to present such a complex issue.

This is precisely why I am asking you to present it in assimilable capsules. Please PM me if you need more information on this.

Now I am switching topics.

By the way, while I subscribe to what Sri Naachinarkiniyan Ji has written about Varna elsewhere here, I differ from him on one thing. It is that a sizeable portion of our brethren believe that the Varna system was created by God and is part of the Sruti (even though no Sruti from my knowledge has developed this syatem, except to say how the four Varnas were created- but for the story of Jabala in the Upanishad). Unfortunately Srimad Bhagavad Gita has certain passages that reinforce the then operating system of Varna by birth. So, the question is, what is the acceptable alternative?

I think I answered this one. Of course Sri Nacchinarkiniyan will respond to the rest of it.

Pranams,
KRS

Regards,
Chintana

 

[KRS]

Dear Sowbhagyavathi Chintana Ji and Sri Hari,

I will try to deal with the two aspects of our Dharma separately, but when we talk about the social issues we need to invariably talk about both. I have various suggestions on Sri Hari's posting:

1. 'Merit' should be the only objective by which one should be recognized. But meritocracy does not leave room for birth rights. But, in the Indian context, there should be certain room for birth rights in certain spheres, for example, a priest at Chidambaram temple can only be from the Dhikshidhar clan and the SC has accepted this view. So, the first thing one should do is to list the traditional jobs still in place that are by birth. This may include some non-brahmin parampara work also.

2. Once we do this (which is a tall order), we should get acceptance for it from all communities.

3. Establish a 'human rights merit committee' populated by the doyens of industry and academics to start identifying merit across the board and promote it. There may be several activities included here. Helping a meritorious person who is denied opportunity should be the task of this organization (one particular recent case - the denial of admission of a highly ranked girl in to IIT because of lack of funds for tuition in Bihar).

4. We can start this within our community first, but for it to be successful in the long run, it should have the support and incusiveness of other communities.

5. Start a 'Hindu Human Rights' committe, which would counteract all the false and negative press and other informational stories. This should roughly have the madel of the Anti Defamation League. This committee should fight for ALL Hindus and promote the social amity at the same time.

Few of my thoughts. Let me know your responses.

Pranams,
KRS

 

[Chintana]

Dear Sri KRS,

Dear Sowbhagyavathi Chintana Ji and Sri Hari,

I will try to deal with the two aspects of our Dharma separately, but when we talk about the social issues we need to invariably talk about both. I have various suggestions on Sri Hari's posting:

1. 'Merit' should be the only objective by which one should be recognized. But meritocracy does not leave room for birth rights. But, in the Indian context, there should be certain room for birth rights in certain spheres, for example, a priest at Chidambaram temple can only be from the Dhikshidhar clan and the SC has accepted this view. So, the first thing one should do is to list the traditional jobs still in place that are by birth. This may include some non-brahmin parampara work also.

2. Once we do this (which is a tall order), we should get acceptance for it from all communities.

3. Establish a 'human rights merit committee' populated by the doyens of industry and academics to start identifying merit across the board and promote it. There may be several activities included here. Helping a meritorious person who is denied opportunity should be the task of this organization (one particular recent case - the denial of admission of a highly ranked girl in to IIT because of lack of funds for tuition in Bihar).

Yes. We've had a few exchanges about this amongst the admin folks. We have been thinking quite seriously along these lines.

4. We can start this within our community first, but for it to be successful in the long run, it should have the support and incusiveness of other communities.

Let us start with us first. I am interested in breaking down bigger problems into smaller pieces. Something that we can plan and execute. If we gather enough strength we can think about a wider reach.

5. Start a 'Hindu Human Rights' committe, which would counteract all the false and negative press and other informational stories. This should roughly have the madel of the Anti Defamation League. This committee should fight for ALL Hindus and promote the social amity at the same time.

Yes. Also something that's been buzzing in some of the admin's conversations.

How to operationalize this?

Few of my thoughts. Let me know your responses.

Pranams,
KRS

Regards,
Chintana

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Please see my post in Unity among brahmins. That has relevance to this topic.