Vegetarianism & Alcoholism

[mrifan]

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Beyond maintaining good habits

Dear Mr. Suresh,

While I agree maintaining good habits is quite important, I am wondering if you have requested other Brahmanas in your office to register on this website and provide any inputs. It would be helpful if they are a member of any other organizations, charitable or otherwise, with experience in canvassing for support. It would be especially useful to have as many Brahmanas on the ground in Chennai/TN register on this website. It would be good of course if they are recommended by actual Brahmanas like you.

Other forum members like Mrs. Shanti Brahm, Mrs. BornAgainIyerMaami, Mr. Paapaan etc may also be able to recommend and help increase the number of Brahmanas registered on this site.

 

[NARAS]

sir - Mrifan! there s only 1 bramin in my office , but he has not got any internet connection. so i find it difficult to convince him to join our forum. but i will try to enroll members if possible. the problem is internet is not available in many middle class families in india even now.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Chintana Ji,

Thank you for the detailed and thoughtful responses to my 'random' thoughts. The following is my response to your comments, by item #.

1. I Agree.

2. Again, I agree. I should have said just 'Yogas'. I was really jumping off from Ramana Maharishi's explanation about vegetarianism, where He connects the relationship between meditation and the 'Sattvic' Guna.

3. I agree.

4. My point is if a soldier has more 'sattvic' qualities than 'rajasic' quality, usually he would not be a 'good' fighter. In that sense, for the functioning of the society, different diets all have the same utility.

5. Same point as #4.

6. So, your isuue with this point is labeling the diet as 'not natural'. I am not adamant about sticking with this label, and I do agree with you, with new evolutionary principles, humans adapt and grow.

8.. I think your remarks agree with mine.

My comments about alcohol mainly centered on the evils it produces in countries like India where it is often abused. Of course for the Brahmins it is a no-no and I agree.

Pranams,
KRS

 

[Chintana]

All but one

Dear Sri KRS,

My response in maroon italics below.

6. So, your isuue with this point is labeling the diet as 'not natural'. I am not adamant about sticking with this label, and I do agree with you, with new evolutionary principles, humans adapt and grow.


Not really. What I tried to mention last time was human beings were not designed just to eat. They were designed to actively pursue development of consciousness through appropriate activity. Diet is incidental. As you rightly pointed out, if a non-vegetarian diet should suit a soldier's lifestyle that is considered ok in the performance of one's duties. Because the performance of one's duties will contribute to that soldier's evolution of consciousness.

But there happens to be a quality factor associated with diet and activity in terms of the evolution of one's consciousness. To achieve the highest quality of human consciousness a vegetarian diet is invaluable. The consciousness of a soldier cannot be equated with those of highly self-realized monks/masters.

Regards,
Chintana

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Chintana Ji,

I disagree with you on this point, as this is the crux of the lessons of Mahabharatha and Gita. This is why we have different Yogas, e.g., Karma Yoga in this case which is extolled in Gita (as the central theme). This is why, when murder is a sin, a Judge who orders a person to the gallows based on the societal laws is not considered to be committing a 'sin', but rather performing his/her duty. So, as long as one performs one's duties (even if he is a butcher) but while doing so keeping Him in his thoughts and mind, he will have no rebirth.

A fighter must fight. The question is not about just diet. It is about the effect of the diet on oneself.

So, theoretically, if everyone in a society becomes 'sattvic' through their diet, and if the whole world does not follow this principle, this whole world will be overrun by the meat eaters.

Again the 'quality' is towards attaining 'Moksha'. I am going to cite the story of 'Manicka Vasagar' here. He surely attained Moksha acoording to our scriptures. How does one explain that?

Pranams,
KRS

 

[hariharan1972]

I have.......but haven't succeeded yet

I am wondering if you have requested other Brahmanas in your office to register on this website and provide any inputs. quote]

Mrifan,

I have.

I have requested people ranging from 23 year old to 62 year old, but unfortunately no one has moved an inch.

There is a huge huge inertia > E = MC^2 which is plaguing the members of the community.

On a different note, one has to admire the 'willingness' to fight (however unethical that may be) in KKKs leaders where they clearly know that any 'benefits' of this fight will accrue for generations to come.

Contrast this with our brahmin friends, i find most of them, living for today, unmindful of what the future generations will face.

Sadly i think this is true of the generations before us as well.

In a way, perhaps we deserve this, since even God doesn't help the person who doesn't help himself !!!!!!

 

[Chintana]

Are we really disagreeing?

Dear Sri KRS,

My response is in maroon italics below.

I disagree with you on this point, as this is the crux of the lessons of Mahabharatha and Gita. This is why we have different Yogas, e.g., Karma Yoga in this case which is extolled in Gita (as the central theme). This is why, when murder is a sin, a Judge who orders a person to the gallows based on the societal laws is not considered to be committing a 'sin', but rather performing his/her duty. So, as long as one performs one's duties (even if he is a butcher) but while doing so keeping Him in his thoughts and mind, he will have no rebirth.

No questions about this. The only thing I missed saying in my previous argument was - if a person should perform his/her actions WITH the thought of offering his actions to Him/Her that person does accrue the benefits of winning God's grace. To do that one should either be guided by a king/ruler with a godly disposition, an external guru or a strong sense of internal convictions. Whether it is the influence of a ruler with a divine disposition, an external Guru or that of internal conviction if a person thinks he/she should perform 'for God' definitely that person has accrued some previous good karma.

My argument was a general statement. More applicable to the external conditions that foster certain types of growth. There are several honorable exceptions to the rule - Kannappa Nayanar comes to mind.

A strong will can always rise above external conditions.

But first the environment has to be made conducive for the creation of a strong will by providing enough good materials for proper decision making. In the early stages of will-development environment will surely overpower the individual. It is not without reason that the idea of 'Satsanga' is emphasized in our traditions. Right now in our community the creation of such good conditions for personal growth is under severe threat. Why? because not only don't we have geographical proximity we have grave disagreements on what conditions constitute the 'best' way of living. Traditionally the 'best' way meant spiritual evolution (the earlier generations were not averse to material successes, but it was only incidental); now the 'best' way seems to take one myriad meanings.

I, personally, like belonging to the community primarily because it creates excellent conditions for spiritual growth. I look at the people around me and feel thankful for my disposition, my clarity of thinking and general orientation toward life. I believe I developed these because of the family conditions (which includes habits and practices) into with I was born. To me a conducive environment is everything.

Meat is generally considered rajasic food. It fuels activity.

Conscious evolution of the mind requires absolute calmness.

From a sheer logical point of view there is a negative correlation between the two.

Like I said in one of my earlier postings, vegetarianism is encouraged in our tradition with the fond hope that one would be inspired to seek God within - to begin or develop the process of self-evolution.

While what you say is absolutely possible in theory, in practice it is more the exception than the general rule.

I recognize the exception but I remain concerned with creating general conditions that promise to foster a god-oriented approach to life - because recognizing something as good for a larger collectivity is important to create a sense of community.


A fighter must fight. The question is not about just diet. It is about the effect of the diet on oneself.

Answer above.

So, theoretically, if everyone in a society becomes 'sattvic' through their diet, and if the whole world does not follow this principle, this whole world will be overrun by the meat eaters.

Isn't this exactly why the caste system was designed in the first place? Brahmana, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra? I don't think that having a classification itself is bad - it becomes bad only if it is used as a condition to illtreat/mistreat other people.

Again the 'quality' is towards attaining 'Moksha'. I am going to cite the story of 'Manicka Vasagar' here. He surely attained Moksha acoording to our scriptures. How does one explain that?

Great personages, through their accrual of good karma, though born and raised in unconducive conditions have always proven that one can attain Moksha in any walk of life. I am not discussing great people who have gone beyond karma - I am talking about creating conditions for the growth and development of many souls who might probably become Manicka Vasagars in their next births or next few births. In other words I am interested in helping build a community that will help self-evolution.


Pranams,
KRS[/quote]

Regards,
Chintana

 

[Chintana]

Information needed?

To help energize our less-concerned bretheren do you think we might need some kind of an information campaign? Doesn't have to be through posters in public places but small information brochures/booklets/word documents/printouts that discuss some current conditions and possible future conditions IF we don't act now?

I am wondering if you have requested other Brahmanas in your office to register on this website and provide any inputs. quote]

Mrifan,

I have.

I have requested people ranging from 23 year old to 62 year old, but unfortunately no one has moved an inch.

There is a huge huge inertia > E = MC^2 which is plaguing the members of the community.

On a different note, one has to admire the 'willingness' to fight (however unethical that may be) in KKKs leaders where they clearly know that any 'benefits' of this fight will accrue for generations to come.

Contrast this with our brahmin friends, i find most of them, living for today, unmindful of what the future generations will face.

Sadly i think this is true of the generations before us as well.

In a way, perhaps we deserve this, since even God doesn't help the person who doesn't help himself !!!!!!

 

[NARAS]

Dear Sri Chintana Ji,

Thank you for the detailed and thoughtful responses to my 'random' thoughts. The following is my response to your comments, by item #.

1. I Agree.

2. Again, I agree. I should have said just 'Yogas'. I was really jumping off from Ramana Maharishi's explanation about vegetarianism, where He connects the relationship between meditation and the 'Sattvic' Guna.

3. I agree.

4. My point is if a soldier has more 'sattvic' qualities than 'rajasic' quality, usually he would not be a 'good' fighter. In that sense, for the functioning of the society, different diets all have the same utility.

5. Same point as #4.

6. So, your isuue with this point is labeling the diet as 'not natural'. I am not adamant about sticking with this label, and I do agree with you, with new evolutionary principles, humans adapt and grow.

8.. I think your remarks agree with mine.

My comments about alcohol mainly centered on the evils it produces in countries like India where it is often abused. Of course for the Brahmins it is a no-no and I agree.

Pranams,
KRS

sir - if you justify animal killing for meat eating in any way, either by (mis)quoting scriptures or otherwise, it automatically justifies other sister evils like drinking, gambling , smoking, racing etc., BTW your view (meat is 'essential' for humans, drinking is evil) is a regrettable ditto of verbatim replica of the fundamentalist face of islam!

K. srikkanth was one of the hardest hitters in world cricket. Javagal srinath was an aggresive fast bowler. mahatma gandhi was the most stubborn human being the world has ever seen. adolf hitler was the most arrogant the world has seen in public. all of them were vegetarians. so it is not correct to argue that non vegetarian diet is need for 'rajasic' quality.

IN Scriptures lord krishna has been potrayed as stealing butter. does this mean burglary is sanctioned by vedhic religion? just because lord rama, krishna, narayana, muruga, shiva all kill demons does this mean, scriptures sanction killings and we should also follow them? My lament is scriptures should be quoted, not misquoted. so let us spare manickavasagar pls.!!

 

[NARAS]

SIRS = QUESTION : WHO ARE WE?

ANSWER : WE ARE 'V'! (VEGETARIANS ONLY)

vegeteranism is to bramins what chastity is to a woman. apologists furnish statistics that many animals contain vitamins, proteins, etc.,, even human body contains lot of vitamins & proteins. does that mean that we should turn cannibals and eat each other? this argument is not at all convincing.

 

[NARAS]

sirs- god has himself given animals only a very short life. so why not wait till these animals die a natural death? why kill them for meat or skin??

 

[NARAS]

sirs- the main reason free sex, alcohol are to be opposed is because of the danger of even school students, college students, teenagers , youth, unemployed getting exposure to these evils. this will harm their health, studies, job and life. if students get exposed to sex & drinking, they will be forced to resort to anti social activities to get money for enjoying these pleasures.

 

[NARAS]

sirs - yesterday about 08.00 pm. IST on sun news tv, in the programme Mangaiyar choice, a Doctor Mr. Jagadeesan has said that some fishes contain Omega-3 fatty acids and it prevents heart attacks! he also said milk, cheese & walnuts contain Omega-3 fatty acids. since non vegetarians eat lot of meat, i think they are vulnerable to heart attacks, and so they do need some fishes as a deterrent to prevent heart attacks. but for vegetarians, the risk of heart attack is fairly low, and so, i do not think they need fishes at all.