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Venki calls astrology a fake discipline

  • Thread starter Thread starter ShivKC
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In routine diagnosis there is certain amount of subjectivity - that is all I wanted to convey. Most of the doctors in private practice are honest, efficient, responsible and conscientious. Doctors attached to specialty/ multi-disciplinary hospitals are under pressure to generate revenue and ROI on costly equipment the hospital has invested. Hence the battery of tests. I was once a short term consultant for evaluating/ recommending medical equipment for a hospital.

I still distinctly remember, when in the fifties, my grandfather had a fracture and we went to a bone setter. He said that there was no need to take an xray before he set the bone, but only after, to check whether he has done it properly. Of course, today neither the patient nor the doctor will take this risk.

Another interesting fact about medicines which are developed with enormous investment in time, manpower and money, carry such warnings. The medicine may cure headache, but side effect can be brain haemorrhage in some patients!

Dear Sarang,

what you say is mostly true.believe me..as a doctor i know what goes on in the medical field these days.
money is the new mantra even in the medical field and intellect is totally blinded.
you have analyzed the situation well.
 
whatever venki or anyone who casts aspirations on the validity of astrology, particularly when it comes to indian environment, is probably banging their head against a rock. and a hard one at that too.

just look at the ads in the matrimonial sites. i follow ssmatri.net, and everyone of them, without exception, have the horoscope details. it is presumed that everyone of such, believes in perfect matches, for i have not seen in any of those, a disclaimer, that horoscope matching may be optional.

this, inspite of the exhortation from the site owner, to ignore horoscopes, and go for mana poruththam and compatibility.

so horoscopes are going to stay, inspite of so many skeptics including moi.

incidentally my marriage was arranged with chance meeting of the two sides at a public place. my mother had no faith in astrology, and mrs K's parents went along with it. we have not ganichchified jadhagams for our children.

recently, for my elder son, someone came with a very matching partner. except they wanted the date/time/place of birth, so that they can create a horoscope for my son, which, ofcourse, we refused. atleast for us, it mattered, as a matter of policy that we will not practice what we did not believe, and neither will it let influence a third party, into our family's key decisions.

different strokes for different folks.
 
... Most of the doctors in private practice are honest, efficient, responsible and conscientious. Doctors attached to specialty/ multi-disciplinary hospitals are under pressure to generate revenue and ROI on costly equipment the hospital has invested. Hence the battery of tests. I was once a short term consultant for evaluating/ recommending medical equipment for a hospital.
My dear brother sarang, I appreciate the above very much.

There are good doctors and bad ones, caring ones and uncaring ones, honest ones and greedy ones, as in all professions. I am sure this is true among astrologers as well. There must be good honest astrologers and bad greedy ones.

My objection was to draw a parallel between what doctors do, in general, and what astrologers do, in general. The former is about trying to provide real solutions, and the later is to offer fantasy and delusion as solution -- even the most able, honest and sincere astrologers can offer nothing more.

Cheers!
 
Let venki get some deadly disease. He will rush to the best astrologer to find out whether he will survive and which hospital to go to;)
 
dear Sarang,

you wrote :
Another interesting fact about medicines which are developed with enormous investment in time, manpower and money, carry such warnings. The medicine may cure headache, but side effect can be brain haemorrhage in some patients!

100% true..thats why I dont really get carried away by any new medication and all the hype that comes with it.
many docs jump to subscribe newer stuff thinking it will work better and also these drug companies sponsor overseas holiday trips if a private doc orders a high amount of this new drug.

so many docs who are already rich enough actually rush for this offer for a free holiday abroad and keep on prescribing these medication.

Coming to astrology...

I remember when my son was 3 years old..he suddenly stopped eating any food and only drank milk occasionally.
I took him to many docs and got him checked up and nothing was wrong.
Some docs say children do go tru such phases and it was too long for me to handle cos he was not eating anything and this dragged on for 3 months.
Surprisingly he was not losing weight and was still healthy despite him not eating solids and hardly drinking milk.
He was as active as usual.

Finally I took him to a temple to see a priest and checked out his horoscope and the priest told me that some planet is unfavourable for his food intake right now and just do a simple navagraha pooja weekly(lighting a lamp for the specific navagraha)

My husband and I did the pooja and at the very first pooja itself my son asked the priest for vibuthi and ate some at the temple and the very next hour at home he started eating solids again and was fully normal.

Only I know the agony I went through seeing my son not eating solids for 3 months which no doc including me could figure out.
Thanks to astrology my son was back to normal.
 
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One view:

ARE HOROSCOPE PREDICTION BASED ON SOUND SCIENTIFIC PRINCIPLES ?


The science is based on cause and effect relationships so, it does not meet
that criteria. However, in the statistical approach which is another part of science- the predictions are based on statistical observations and knowledge base. Based on this statistical approach, Nirayanvvadis are on sounder footing because their basis is far more older, more statistical data; so the confidence level or predictions would be higher provided they know their vidya. There are a lot of fast buck artists, so one has to be careful in believing about the predictions.
Thanks.
Anand M. Sharan

Prof. Sharan teaches in a US university.
 
In the book vivaaha vignanam written by p. s. iyer astrologer has written in page no.103 it will of very useful for astrologers and to students of astrology to have the following in by heart. Marriage is not for sex. this is to grow dharmam and to deliver good children to the world.

Dharmam valarthal enral aram,porul,inbam, veedu ellame adangum. aram enra nadhi ,veedu ennum paramporulai ettuvatharku porul, inbam enra iru karaikalukku utpattu , sethamuraamal,setham vilaivikkamal valkkai nadatha vendum.

Astrologer can lift or punch of one couple. It is in their hands. The responsibility of an astrologer is more and it is equla to walking on a knief edge.

Astrology never fails. But now a days astrologers are making it as a profession. If anybody gives two horoscopes the astrologer must check first . he should not as a correct horoscope. he must prepare a new horoscope by having the date of birth, time of birth, and place of birth.for both horoscope with the same panchangam.mandhi gananam and bhaava sputam is also important.

Life span for both ; children; suga jeevanam. anyonyam , mana otrumai;good and bad effects to that family after marriage by this horoscope. after by this marriage whether any family dosham will affect them,for how long period they will unitedly, good and bad yogas; desa sandhi and dosha saamyam; and 36 poruthangal; whether the will have 2nd marriage legally or illegally. his character. maangalya dosham in bride's horoscope. now this 36 has come down to 10.


In kali yuga knowing very well that people will misuse astrology and manthras rishis have deleted many information on astrolgy and on manthras. now only we are having a few, incomplete one .
 
One of my friend married on 8-4- 1987. expired last year. On the marriage day without giving importance to kasaram and maandhi in the lagnam he got married given as a best muhurtham for them by an astrologer. This the fault of the astrologer. Secondly in the horoscope of the groom lagnam was written wrongly,in another place. Any astrologer can find very easily with the help of the time of birth can say the lagnam written is wrong.

But the astrologers are not worried about this. they are taking everything is in perfect condition and go onpredicting that the horoscope matches well with the bride. marriage was over on 8-4-1987 in mithuna lagnam where mandhi is there in that lagnam.

He got a female child on 18-10-1988 atn 2-45 am in madras. his wife is only a home maker. Now this 23 years old female child loved one non brahmin boy and was saying that she is going to maary only him for the two years. After the demisal of the father her lover ran away leaving her as she has to live along with her mother and with mother's MIL.

Now the mana porutham of both have gone. It is not a sincere love. Only the boy wants to make money through her and have convinced her .

Another friend 's daughter had fall in love with a non brahmin and her parents married her with his lover. Now that boy is making lakhs of rupees from his FIL. there is no other way. WE cannot also go blindly by manaporutham only now a days.

One in each family must learn astrology and we ourselves have to solve our problems without going to astrologer.

For my children astrologer whom i consult had informed me that after marriage of my son myself and my wife will die in one accident and to remove this pariharams should be done. because rahu and surya are in rasi. He wants to make money by saying some thing as mars dosham rahu kethu dosham. we should not go to astrologers. Nothing had happened to us after my son's marriage.

For my son -in-law , mars dasa is going to come and he is the bhadhaghadhipathi for you. for sara rasi 11 th house owner is the badagathipathi. he will give some heavy expenses to you. so you please purchase some land or old house now in my daughter's name. he purchased and now the value of that place have increased thrice of its value.

when ever i am going to my daughter's house the FIL and MIL of my daughter is giving me great respect. For my daughter's delivery also the docters are saying 'no normal delivery only cessarian' and they are giving the date for operation and on that date i have worked and found out the time for operation. and now these grandchildren 's growth is also very satisfactory to them. astrology works well.
 
Dear Sri kgopalan Ji,

Our horoscopes are nothing but our karmaphala in our lives. An astrologer can only do so much, and, if it is destined that a person should marry a particular person in life and have the joint Karma, nothing will stop it, doing Pariharams or not.

In the old days, parents used the matching mainly to determine longevity, but even then we know that there were many widows and widowers. I would presume that during those days, an astrologer was practicing not mainly for money (purely my assumption), yet, not 100% of their predictions came true. Even then a good astrology prediction is at best 80 to 90% accurate by the real gifted ones, because of this intricate link to the Karma.

This is why I do not do matrimonial matchings and predict on one's deaths, in my practice as an amateur.

Once a person has Manaporutham, definitely one should not do horoscope matching. Manaporutham signifies the kick off of the Karmaphala.

Just my opinion.

Regards,
KRS
 
I remember that my son's horoscope mentioned that by the age of 8 he will have a visible scar on the visible part of his body which could be caused by injury to sharp object ,even due to electric.

I didnt worry too much about it even though 2 different astrologers said the same thing telling me to be careful.

Nothing really happened but at the age of 8 he underwent surgery for inguinal hernia and he has 2 scars at the inguinal region(the area just above the thighs)

Then I thought..it is a scar no doubt and its was caused by surgical instruments(sharp object),cauterization of vessels during surgery by cautery(electrical) but the only thing that differs is the location..the inguinal region is a well hidden area.
 
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Dear Srimathi Renuka Ji,

I am surprised that two astrologers would even read a child's horoscope at that age. Astrologers in general are advised not even to compose a child's horocope till the age of 10 or so. This is because of the phenomenon known as 'Balarishta', when a child till that age is particularly subject to limitations on life, because of various factors.

Nevertheless, I think that 'visible' means visible on the body, clothes not withstanding. Just my 2 cents.

Regards,
KRS
 
Dear Srimathi Renuka Ji,

I am surprised that two astrologers would even read a child's horoscope at that age. Astrologers in general are advised not even to compose a child's horocope till the age of 10 or so. This is because of the phenomenon known as 'Balarishta', when a child till that age is particularly subject to limitations on life, because of various factors.

Nevertheless, I think that 'visible' means visible on the body, clothes not withstanding. Just my 2 cents.

Regards,
KRS

Dear KRS Ji,

It was just some simple horoscope reading not a detailed one, in fact one was a numerologist..he mentioned about the scar but just asking for date of birth and time of birth.

Both had mentioned that it would be a scar visible to others and on an area like face,neck,hands.

Some astrologers do write for kids too, I remember when I was 9..one astrologer wrote for me(he was from India) and he wrote my name on the book as Dr Renuka and my dad asked him why?
He said she will be a doctor when she grows up.
So far what he wrote is really very accurate.
 
Dear Srimathi Renuka Ji,

Okay. I don't know much about Numerology, so I won't comment on that. But I am surprised that an astrologer predicted what he did - because I do know that one can predict the part of the body that would have the scar based on the planet and the ascendant involved in a horoscope.

Predicting clear cut professions are easy in a horoscope. For example, a physician, or a teacher or an engineer are easy to predict. But it is harder to predict on arts related occupations (with the exception of a music career), in my opinion. Non traditional careers are the hardest to predict, in my opinion.

Regards,
KRS

PS: By the way, some will claim that you were predicted to have a Dr. prefix at such an young age, that drove you to become one, nothing to do with horoscope!

Regards,
KRS
 
It is interesting that there is such a big fan club for astrology. We are all ever waiting for these predictions to come true. But life just moves paying scant respect to the predictions. People who were supposed to marry many years back continue unmarried, people who were supposed to live are dead, girls who were certain to have marriages only with the consent of their parents have turned against them and so on. Does this astrology help in giving some kind of false hope for the lost , or is it false promise? I do not know. I will wait and watch . Somebody somewhere was supposed to have been married many years back and we are all still waiting and waiting- It seems the marriage times are still switched on, as per this astrologer and there does not appear to be a ray of hope. Pity!
 
identification of marks or scars

This art - telling of mark or scar on a body - comes under, I think, "Samurdrika Latchan" according to star or raasi. I have had opportunities of knowing people from various branches of astrology. Only then I was not an enthusiastic student of astrology. People used to say a personality was roughly identified by sex and age on the basis hair bits. I cannot argue for such sciences because you are not aware they are available. Nor even the shampoowallas or trichologists would know. Nor would I rubbish such things because I cannot dictate to bring the proofs.
 
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It is interesting that there is such a big fan club for astrology. We are all ever waiting for these predictions to come true. But life just moves paying scant respect to the predictions. People who were supposed to marry many years back continue unmarried, people who were supposed to live are dead, girls who were certain to have marriages only with the consent of their parents have turned against them and so on. Does this astrology help in giving some kind of false hope for the lost , or is it false promise? I do not know. I will wait and watch . Somebody somewhere was supposed to have been married many years back and we are all still waiting and waiting- It seems the marriage times are still switched on, as per this astrologer and there does not appear to be a ray of hope. Pity!

Shri subbudu sir,

Astrology was suitable for the Indians in general, perhaps, and tabras in particular, in a different age and time. It was one of the vedangas and was taught by guru to a few proper sishyas only (not like the vedas proper which were taught to anyone from the three upper castes) and the sishyas in turn did their 'pick and choose' later. But today the situation is that any tom, dick or harry can teach himself astrology, get some publicity and once he gets a base of clientele, he can then prosper, no looking back, as they say!

Recently one of my distant relatives expired at the age of 80. His sons were planning to celebrate his satabhishekam, but he said, "wait for a week before you book mandapam and all that." On the eighth day, early morning, he got up, complained of "some discomfort" but beore his dil brought hot water to drink he was no more. I know of another case of a well-known Iyengar vakil. He stopped accepting cases which would come up after a certain date in the court. When his neighbour, friend and daily co-walker in the evenings asked him why, this vakil is supposed to have said "naan irukka maaTTEn". And when he died and his son (vakil) opened the father's diary, it seems there were the words "last day for me" on the date he expired.

I can also vouchsafe one account. One young boy of twentyish, a bright student, suddenly became mad and uncontrollable and had to be put in asylum in Delhi. The boy's family, well off, did lot of parihaarams and treatments but without results. Then they heard of one parasurama jyosyar of Trivandrum and came to him. He did the "prasnam" and said the boy's grandfather had died recently but it was a murder and the ghost is causing all this trouble. The boy's relatives asked him who had killed that person; after insistence, he replied that it was done by a woman who was to the deceased like a wife. Those people did not believe the jyosyar at all but did all the parihaarams as per his advice and the boy became normal. After an year the boy's parents came and prostrated before the jyosyar asking for his pardon because subsequent events and enquiry through private detectives had convinced them that the deceased man's wife had poisoned him in collusion with his boss and her lover, and had gone to live with that person after the one-year period from death was over!

There were such capable astrologers but may be no more. Let us not judge that branch of knowledge with our standards of today and the rampant misuse to which astrology has been subjected to.
 
Dear Sri kgopalan Ji,

Our horoscopes are nothing but our karmaphala in our lives. An astrologer can only do so much, and, if it is destined that a person should marry a particular person in life and have the joint Karma, nothing will stop it, doing Pariharams or not.

KRS

sh.krs,

lets consider this particular incidence of the recent three active members holidaying out.

can astrology predict, when they would end their holiday, and make a great coming back? what are all the specs needed to predict this?

PS:Im not kidding here, and am eager to know how astrology be of helpful here.
 
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