War cry in holy cities A storm is gathering along the banks of river Ganges.

[sarang]

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There are several words which have acquired different meanings and attributes over a period. For example, we associate 'natram' with bad smell, whereas it is a neutral word. 'Natratthuzai mudi' in andal's pauram refers to divine smell. We now take natram as durnatram always.

Sri Vaagmi

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

I guess people use the expression in many context especially in a house where someone has died.

You have helped to make the expression not inauspicious in my mind by showing its use in a Pasuram

Regards

 

[tks]

But isnt the final diagnosis of Vedas,Upanishads,Brahma Sutra,Gita actually Ekam Advaitam Brahman?

So the assumed multitude of Vedic Gods is merely a projection isnt it?

In fact I feel its a person who truly believes in the Vedas,Upanishads,Brahma Sutras and Geeta who would say that its the Fertile Imagination of Men which deified the Forces of Prakirti(Nature) and gave them names and called them Vedic Gods...I am not saying that it is wrong to deify Nature..in fact its part of Evolution of Thought but it just that we need to go to the source of its very existence that finally everything is just the One and Only Brahman which we choose to imagine in so many ways.


I feel if we still prefer to project an understanding of Polytheism then on technical grounds we are actually giving the Vedas,Upanishads,Brahma Sutras and Geeta a "bad name".

But if you choose to call Sriman Narayana as the One and Only God(which I feel you do)....then I guess you will never agree with what I wrote.


Note: The word Imagination in a Philosophical context does not convey the meaning of Insanity.
Imagination in this context means the Projection of The Mind.

The idea of One Brahman even if accepted by an individual is rarely of much use in day to day life. An analogy would be like accepting the concept of heat death of the universe since disorder (technical term entropy) seem to be always on the rise. Knowing total death of universe may happen some day some billion years does not help anyone today.

Brahman is not anything like we have known from our field of experience and in some sense is not expressible.

Vedic teaching does not mandate a theistic God - a concept of God that listens to individual prayers. That is why it was possible to have many vintages of Atheists doctrines included in the Vedic umbrella.

In the end it call comes to interpretation. Vedic teaching and rituals can be interpreted by theists and atheists. There are dualist interpretation and SV like interpretation. The differences in interpretation often comes down to finer details of grammar rules and overall context.

From a practical standpoint, Vedic teaching can accommodate polytheistics like practices though it is not about polytheism. Vedic teaching is NOT about monotheism though it can accommodate such practices as well. Vedic teaching can accommodate Panteistic like practices though it is not about pantheism.

Vedic teaching does NOT direct one to be polytheistic (many Gods), monotheistic (one God), Atheistic (no God), Panteistics (nature = God), and is not about agnosticism either. It is altogether another beast for the lack of a better word.

It is possible to justify a Sai Baba like person having followers within Hindu thinking as well as support the notion of only six modes of worship as prescribed by Adi Shankara for a more sustainable forms of worship over many generations.

Unless one is into detailed and doctrinal level discussion and extensive analysis of how that thinking is related to what we do in day to day life, no one idea is superior to others.

Any thought and mode of worship provided they do not cause harm to others is fine.

The only discussion that is relevant is if worship of humans is in the best interest of a religion in the long run. Here we have two diametric views between Sai devotees and Swami Swaroopananda. In an air of mutual respect (without Naga Sadhus and Effigy burning) it is possible to have a productive discussion without bringing in Brahman etc into the picture.

 

[biswa]

Let's accept it for what it is. We Hindus are a bunch of idolators. We are happier building temples and garlanding statues than reciting Vedas or understanding the meaning of the verses.

If a typical Hindu enters a meditation room or a mosque, the first question is: "What is there to see here?" The focus is on objects and sensory stimulation. That is why there is so much pomp and show in all Hindu temples.

 

[renuka]

If a typical Hindu enters a meditation room or a mosque, the first question is: "What is there to see here?" The focus is on objects and sensory stimulation. That is why there is so much pomp and show in all Hindu temples.

Exactly!

Not many can understand that prayer is possible without external aids.

 

[tks]

Exactly!

Not many can understand that prayer is possible without external aids.

Different strokes for different folks..

 

[Vaagmi]

post #128:

If a typical Hindu enters a meditation room or a mosque, the first question is: "What is there to see here?" The focus is on objects and sensory stimulation. That is why there is so much pomp and show in all Hindu temples.

A meditation room or a mosque or a Church has an altar, a pulpit, a holy direction towards which to pray, and an atmosphere. To that altar and atmosphere you add an idol then you have a temple. So the need for a symbol is common to all human beings. The symbol accelerates the effort to focus for meditation and prayer. So there is nothing strange about it or objectionable there. Everyone can not be a hermit who closes his eyes and lo you have the God standing there before him in his vision. Rather it has a strong reason why we need idols. My childhood friend Thangapandi in my native place still needs an idol which looks fiery, with a handlebar mush and a huge sword and spear in its hands. He is perfectly happy with that image. And do not discount his sincerity when it comes to bhakti. There is nothing to be judgmental about such things.

 

[prasad1]

In the Lotus temple of Yogaville, VA in the meditation room there is no symbol as we know, it is totally bare. You are expected to sit on floor, and absolute silence is maintained.There is 12 light beam converging on the ceiling. These correspond to 12+ religious items, symbols, scriptures etc kept as a museum in the lower level.

But I understand the need for symbol to meditate.



Satchidananda Ashram - Yogaville was founded by Yogiraj Sri Swami Satchidananda in 1980. The ashram is the international organizational headquarters of Swami Satchidananda's documented teachings, located in the county of Buckingham, Virginia.


The primary vision of this world-traveled guru Yogiraj Sri Swami Satchidananda (1914-2002) was interfaith understanding as a vehicle to world peace. To this end, with his vision and much work from thousands of disciples and admirers, the LOTUS (Light Of Truth Universal Shrine) was constructed and inaugurated in 1986.


The shrine is shaped like a lotus flower, because it is a place in honor of the divine light, universal motif in all faiths and nonbelievers (science and the formula for light). Swami Satchidananda was familiar with the symbology of these aquatic flowers and their characteristic behavior of always opening and turning to face in the sun's direction.


Expert museum-quality displays are located in the lower chamber of the shrine, with sacred and beautiful authentic artifacts and scriptures from the world's major religions and those lesser known. The faiths represented in the shrine are African, Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism (Sanatana Dharma, the Eternal Truths), Islam, Judaism, Native American, Shinto, Sikhism, Taoism.[1] By displaying a shrine to each of these religions, the temple is a living environment to honor Swami Satchidananda's teachings and motto of Integral Yoga, "Truth is One, Paths are Many."

 

[tks]

Lack of symbols as we normally think of symbols itself is a form of a symbol.
Sitting in the ground, being silent and possibly closing the eyes are part of a ritual too though it is not a Vedic ritual.

I think the main point is for a sincere person any environment that seem work for them is the right environment without judgement about what may work for others. There is nothing particularly special about an empty room or about a room filled with items/deities etc

 

[natkaushik]

Sir,
You rudely interrupted the thread about Shankarachrya Swaroopananda and his observation about Sai Baba... .

Well said Prasad1ji,It is strange that people pontificate on Brahman,Advaita,Gods, vedas etc., as though they are the authority.When Adi Sankara himself had a hard time convincing "Mimamsakas", that jnana and not karma will lead to Moksha, how can we come to a conclusion on a question of Vedanta? These things have to be learnt from a Guru. If we do not respect our Gurus, we will surely wallow in ignorance.
शिवे रुष्टे गुरुस्त्राता गुरौ रुष्टे न कश्चन ।

 

[tks]

I meant to ask this question to Sai devotees while the thread was 'active' ..

There was a 45 minute or so segment aired by BBC about Sri Sathya Sai Baba some time ago. It was not allowed to be shown in many places from what I understand.

I do not want to talk about serious allegations reported since that is sensitive to many.

The report did highlight issues surrounding worshipping of a living person and more importantly the reaction of hard core devotees.

My questions are

1. Are you aware of this BBC report and have you seen it (I can send link only via Private message?

2. If you have seen it are you able to support the reaction of hard core followers not wanting to listen or engage (much like what the Catholic Church and its followers were doing)

3. Do you see such issues are possible by choosing to worship human beings even if they are thought as a living God

By asking this I am only trying toi understand the mind of the serious devotees (who in the news stories went all the way to effigy burning in a New York minute).

I think Sathya Sai foundations have done great work by building hospitals and other places to help people. I have read books written from Baba's lectures which have conveyed profound wisdom in simple languages.

But the questions remain....