what is Tamil Brahmin "CULTURE"?

[renuka]

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Now I am quite convinced that Count Dracula could have been a TB who did not follow culture after migrating to Transylvania and got influenced by others but still managed to retain some part of TB culture...Drac does not like Garlic!LOL

 

[Iyer@Infosys]

Dear Prasad1 and C Ravi,

Scripted code does not (and cannot) exist as regards what tamil brahmins shall eat or shall not eat. Eating or not eating any item depends on an individual's taste and choice. My tamil brahmin colleagues on-site, who are strict vegetarians off-shore, eat meat while yet adhering to observance of rituals viz sandyavandanam etc. Does that render them non-tamil-brahmins?

Regards,
Iyer@Infosys

 

[Delhi6]

Being a Punju, I am not well conversant with nuances of Tam Brahm culture. So whatever I say please do not take it as a swipe on your community. I treat you guys like my own.

Since I am like a surrogate son to an Iyengar family, so whatever little I have observed is this:

1. You guys have some cute quirks. I mean does okra really makes one intelligent???
2. You guys have some lovely dishes like adai-rasam and kosambri. Being lactose intolerant never took to curd rice that all of you seems to relish.
3. My chithappa and other uncles in the family have a special liking for lungi. They cant wait to change once they are back home.
4. You marriages generally take place at an unearthly hour (my sample size is 1). I mean seriously who marries at 5 am. Came to realise this the hard way in what was a very touching incident for me.
My bro(chittis son. yupp the same surrogate family) was getting married to a marwari female. Chitti had insisted on Tam brahm wedding. I was told that marriage would take place at 5 am. I thought which meant 8 am as things happen in India according to Indian Stretchable Time. So being happy that bro was to be married the next day I like any good punju had a few Patialas and went to bed at 2 am.
Now it seems you guys have some custom where elder brother of groom has to conduct some ceremony by being next to him in wedding. Now my bro only has elder cousins and chitti wanted only me to sit for this ceremony. She put her foot down and kinda alienated other first cousins for me by refusing them to volunteer as I was asleep. So finally they woke me up somehow and I went through that ceremony in a haze. lol. In retrospect it was touching I must say. However early morning marriages??? :shocked::shocked::shocked:.Dhanya ho

 

[C RAVI]

From your post#5




My grand uncle will not eat in the household where they use Garlic even today. He considers them less than brahmin.
So before generalizing look around you.

We can look around only to the extent we could come across. This is the fact for every one.

Btw, Exceptional cases always are there for almost everything. Don't figure out exceptional cases to make a generalized statement, in the present scenario.

Even if my paternal grand parents would have been alive, they will not eat in those houses. But, they wold not consider them as NB.

Such orthodox brahmin people consider brahmins eating garlic and onions as less than a Brahmins because that's how were those days staunch brahmins.

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Ravi,


As as far as I know from the interaction with my North Indian Brahmin relatives they feel "kinship" with North Indians even if they are Non Brahmin North Indians and do not feel "kinship" with a South Indian Brahmin.

So I think IyerJi is right in his post.

There generally exists disinterest and sense of alienation between Northies and Southies..Topographically there is a distance by land and by heart, in general.

 

[Delhi6]

There generally exists disinterest and sense of alienation between Northies and Southies..Topographically there is a distance by land and by heart, in general.

Sigh!!!:frusty:

 

[amala]

I know a Kannada Brahmin who feels more kinship to a Lingayat or Gowda than a Tambrahm. And Andhra Brahmins who feel Telugu first and feel kinship with Kamma/Reddys and Rajus than with a tambrahm, so its not just a northie thing. Probably even Bengali and Maharashtrian Brahmins too. So it mostly is only Tambrahms who keep saying Brahmin is Brahmin. It certainly doesn't seem to be the case for other southie Brahmins. If Brahmin is really Brahmin surely a Bengali Brahmin should feel more kinship to a tambrahm, but probably not. The probability that they have a Bengali Kayastha relative is higher than a tambrahm or south Brahmin.

 

[C RAVI]

There is no pressing need for one set of brahmins to feel kinship over other set of brahmins or not to feel.

These are individual choice. Especially in present scenario where South Brahmins are gradually going out of staunch orthodoxy.

In any time, if no chance to get a partner from the same set of South Brahmins, one would not mind to marry from another set of South Brahmins and would feel satisfied.

In all, Brahmins are Brahmins no matter how close they feel towards each other!

 

[kunjuppu]

I know a Kannada Brahmin who feels more kinship to a Lingayat or Gowda than a Tambrahm. And Andhra Brahmins who feel Telugu first and feel kinship with Kamma/Reddys and Rajus than with a tambrahm, so its not just a northie thing. Probably even Bengali and Maharashtrian Brahmins too. So it mostly is only Tambrahms who keep saying Brahmin is Brahmin. It certainly doesn't seem to be the case for other southie Brahmins. If Brahmin is really Brahmin surely a Bengali Brahmin should feel more kinship to a tambrahm, but probably not. The probability that they have a Bengali Kayastha relative is higher than a tambrahm or south Brahmin.

dear amala,

this is the reason periyar happened. periyar was at the receiving end of this attitude and came a point when he decided to hit back. he did such a good job of our grand parents' generation, that the effect is permanent in tamil nadu or will take a long time to erase.

tambrams have no arguement against periyar, except to call him names. but the essence of his message struck a willing cord to all the NB communities and the generation of 1920 thru 40s were so stupid, that they did not realize their weaknesses, the coming of free india with universal franchise and the new world where liberty equality and fraternity ruled.

there may be clashes dalits and dominant NB castes now, but one thing all of them unite - no more leading role for tambrams in tamil social life. we can stick to our carnatic music and line up for visas in the u.s. embassies. or.. like ananda vikatan we can re invent ourselves - to be more in tune with current tamil society trends and culture. our tambram appear to know which way to go, leaving the boys and their parents holding an empty bag

 

[Jaykay767]

South Brahmins have a very strong kinship across Tamil, Kannada, Telugu & Malayalam. Num of people inter marry & preserve the culture. They all share the same genes & people of the same genetic group come together (this was also substantiated by a recent research where people of the same genetic group come together).

If any Tamil Bram is staying in Karnataka, Kerala or Andhra, you will find all / most of his friends only Brahmins, Simailar look at Kannada Bram in Chennai, or Telugu Bram in Bangalore – almost all of their friends will be Brahmins.

Similarly most of the Boston Brahmins are all south Brams, you will find this across many countries/places.

 

[sarang]

evr has surreptitiously crept in; he is not followed by anyone today. His true nature and hypocritical nature is now well documented and revealed. His only credit to fame is BB.

evr followers are doomed to oblivion; his name was used to score over and humilate brahmins, but those days are gone. His followers are busy editing and hiding portions from publishing collected works.

 

[kunjuppu]

ns.

Similarly most of the Boston Brahmins are all south Brams, you will find this across many countries/places.

re 'boston brahmins', here is what wikipedia says. not many iyers or sarma or sankarans there. feel free to edit the wiki.

Boston_Brahmin

 

[Delhi6]

My reply is nested in the quote

South Brahmins have a very strong kinship across Tamil, Kannada, Telugu & Malayalam. Num of people inter marry & preserve the culture. They all share the same genes & people of the same genetic group come together (this was also substantiated by a recent research where people of the same genetic group come together).

Would love to see the research paper

If any Tamil Bram is staying in Karnataka, Kerala or Andhra, you will find all / most of his friends only Brahmins, Simailar look at Kannada Bram in Chennai, or Telugu Bram in Bangalore – almost all of their friends will be Brahmins.

Sir,I think you are being wishful and not factual.Brahmins have many NB friends who outnumber their Brahmin friends and I mean friends and not acquaintances.

Similarly most of the Boston Brahmins are all south Brams, you will find this across many countries/places.

Are you sure? IIRC this term had nothing to do with Indian Brahmins as such.It was an expression that denoted privilege which certain protestant families enjoyed in the New England area.

 

[Delhi6]

NOT FAIR,
I posted before you but my reply was held in moderation.lol

re 'boston brahmins', here is what wikipedia says. not many iyers or sarma or sankarans there..........

 

[Jaykay767]

re 'boston brahmins', here is what wikipedia says. not many iyers or sarma or sankarans there. feel free to edit the wiki.

Boston_Brahmin

I am well aware of the Boston Brahmins being a white community. But there is also a strong Tam Bram/.South Brahmin community in Boston, some of whom I happened to meet as well !!

 

[prasad1]

I know a Kannada Brahmin who feels more kinship to a Lingayat or Gowda than a Tambrahm. And Andhra Brahmins who feel Telugu first and feel kinship with Kamma/Reddys and Rajus than with a tambrahm, so its not just a northie thing. Probably even Bengali and Maharashtrian Brahmins too. So it mostly is only Tambrahms who keep saying Brahmin is Brahmin. It certainly doesn't seem to be the case for other southie Brahmins. If Brahmin is really Brahmin surely a Bengali Brahmin should feel more kinship to a tambrahm, but probably not. The probability that they have a Bengali Kayastha relative is higher than a tambrahm or south Brahmin.

You are right.
Even among Tamil Brahmins there are distinctions, they do not have uniform practices.
Here an Iyangar (Ranganatha) Temple, they will not even have a Ganesh Moorty. They even do not allow Iyangars who go to Shiva-Visnu Temples in their Puja-committee, because they are not "pure".

This is among Tamil Brahmins. A Vadma subsect of Smartha Brahmins, will not marry into a Brahcharnam sub sect. These so called cultural purity of Tamil Brahmins is all a charade.

 

[prasad1]

Again it depends on the sample size.
Tana an organization of Telugu comes together only for language, art, and other cultural activities.
Same is true if Tamil Sangams and Caveri they are purely language based.
We are socially very active in lot of organizations. Gujarati samaj, Tamil Sangam, Hindu Center, Ahoa (Hotel owners association) nothing has anything to do with birth based caste system.

I have not lived in Agraharam deep inside TN, so I can not speak of it.

 

[palindrome]

I know a Kannada Brahmin who feels more kinship to a Lingayat or Gowda than a Tambrahm. And Andhra Brahmins who feel Telugu first and feel kinship with Kamma/Reddys and Rajus than with a tambrahm, so its not just a northie thing. Probably even Bengali and Maharashtrian Brahmins too. So it mostly is only Tambrahms who keep saying Brahmin is Brahmin. It certainly doesn't seem to be the case for other southie Brahmins. If Brahmin is really Brahmin surely a Bengali Brahmin should feel more kinship to a tambrahm, but probably not. The probability that they have a Bengali Kayastha relative is higher than a tambrahm or south Brahmin.

I agree with you spot on Amala. Every single Telugu person i know of never thinks of their "ayya garus" different from themselves. So too the Kannadigas. In Telugu land, anti-brahmanism never really took off. Some issues did exist, but were restricted to select circles (like komatis) wanting higher varna status (and here too, they never had issues with temple priests who in fact supported the masses). Temple priests in fact were (and still remain) very highly respected. A telugu brahmin never goes around claiming to be an aryan, openly calling others as shudras or putting people down, or claiming to be different from other telugu speakers in culture (this is despite the fact that each caste back then in fact did have its own rituals, food practices, etc). Maybe in social memory it was understood that telugu speakers themselves are a mix, derived from various regions thru successive migrations, irrespective of B or NB. Maybe it also stayed in social memory that native local tribes and local priests had converted into brahmins (the boya case is really interesting when delved deep into). In Tamilnadu, some equations were somewhat different. I think it is all very unfortunate. The hindutva lobby, instead of helping heal relationships, create more issues and problems. On the contrary, communist brahmin leaders in tamilnadu are truly doing a remarkable job.

 

[palindrome]

South Brahmins have a very strong kinship across Tamil, Kannada, Telugu & Malayalam. Num of people inter marry & preserve the culture. They all share the same genes & people of the same genetic group come together (this was also substantiated by a recent research where people of the same genetic group come together).

Proof please.

 

[palindrome]

there may be clashes dalits and dominant NB castes now,

I feel, it is very important for dominant NBs to realize they are no different from former dalits. Acculturation (and adopting new customs just to become part of mainstream), has always happened. Just because people profess different culture, does not mean they are different in origin. Even worldwide, we are not so different, as some of us wud like to imagine. At least our mother, the mitochondrial eve, is common to all of us. So is the y-chromosomal Adam.

 

[amala]

Ayya garu ante emitiandi? Nenu Vinnapadaledhey!. But seriously growing I remember having proper Andhra Brahmin expat family friends (from India/Spore) and my family took them to our lovely Brahmana Samajam (the one Kunjuppu sir knows and adores ) thinking they'd feel at home. They felt quite alien amongst the Tambrahm crowd probably because they didn't speak Tamil, unlike us. While we were so amazed how the Andhra Brahmins are soo excited to meet up and mingle with other Telugus whatever their caste

 

[palindrome]

Ayya garu ante emitiandi? Nenu Vinnapadaledhey!. But seriously growing I remember having proper Andhra Brahmin expat family friends (from India/Spore) and my family took them to our lovely Brahmana Samajam (the one Kunjuppu sir knows and adores ) thinking they'd feel at home. They felt quite alien amongst the Tambrahm crowd probably because they didn't speak Tamil, unlike us. While we were so amazed how the Andhra Brahmins are soo excited to meet up and mingle with other Telugus whatever their caste

Ayya garu ante brahmin. I mean, this is how people i know of refer to brahmins. If singular, referring to an individual, say someone named srinivasachari, they wud say srinivasachari ayya gaaru. If collective, referring to a group, they wud say paarpana vaaru (kindly note, this is not derogatory at all, grammatically there is no other term available to refer to a collective group in the native language). If referring to a family, like say, people of srinivasachari's family, they wud say srinivasachari ayyagari kutumbham vaalu. If addressing the person directly, they wud say swaami garu like in 'swaami garu baagunnara?'. Some peope wud also say 'ayya garu bagunnara?' So ayya garu is used to refer to an individual, and also to address an individual directly.

I knew some girls from rural areas of andhra who had great difficulty mingling even with kannada speakers. It really depends on the exposure. A few more trips, wud have made your family friends familiarize themselves with members of the brahmana samajam.

 

[kunjuppu]

..........our lovely Brahmana Samajam (the one Kunjuppu sir knows and adores ) ...

i think, this definitely deserves an entry in my little black book hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[கால பைரவன்]

It appears there is a new trend emerging in this forum. Earlier there used to be constant whining against brahmins in general - brahmins did this, they did that, their supposed attitudes, pride etc etc. Nowadays a select group is being targeted - whether it is brahmin boys (or girls) or non-priest brahmins and recently tamil brahmins. Looks to me a divide and conquer policy!

 

[kunjuppu]

It appears there is a new trend emerging in this forum. Earlier there used to be constant whining against brahmins in general - brahmins did this, they did that, their supposed attitudes, pride etc etc. Nowadays a select group is being targeted - whether it is brahmin boys (or girls) or non-priest brahmins and recently tamil brahmins. Looks to me a divide and conquer policy!

dear bhairavan,

could not help a chuckle at your observation. probably right in a very oblique way, because we do discuss various topics, but you have to agree, one does find strange bedfellows, depending on the topic.

i doubt whether there is any organized attempt to pick and choose groups, but haven't we always been like that? discussing 101 topics under the sun. i myself have no energy to even read except a chosen few, and put in a word or two in a select fewer posts. so, till you pointed out, i was not even aware of the dissection of topics and owners in the manner you observed. kudos to you for that.

having said this, your voice has been strangely silent. these days.hope all is well.

greetings and well wishes..