Who are we?

[gurumurthyji]

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Dear Sri.Maruthi Sir,

So you entertained doubt about his ability to contribute to the Brahmin community…..Is it not? You are also desirous of understanding in what way he is different from Periyarists? And you link this with your perception of modern Brahmins similarities to periyarists whom they hate.

Is entertaining doubt about the writers ability is a subject related question?

Is posing personal questions such as ‘what way you are different’ is a subject enlighten?

Is asking the writer to write the way you want [i.e., by expressing your belief that modern Brahmins are very similar to periyarists whom they hate] is what uniting Brahmins and all others writings are dividing?

It seems to me that something else is bothering you and you do not want this thread to be taken to the end desired by the writer. His writings are really interesting enlighten to people like me. I can also read your views if you present that in a different thread of your own.

GURUMURTHYJI

 

[maruti]

Dear Sri.Maruthi Sir,

So you entertained doubt about his ability to contribute to the Brahmin community…..Is it not? You are also desirous of understanding in what way he is different from Periyarists?

Sorry for not expressing myself properly. I wasn't referring to MR. KRS at all, rather to Brahmins who give up brahminical ways, doing which they become an easy target for periyarists. If Brahmins abuse the gods, vedas etc. under the pretext of being modern and PERIYARISTS DO THE SAME, what's the difference between them?

Which is why educating our community is important. Most brahmins are ignorant, and periyarists exploit this ignorance to poison their minds. To stop periyarism, which is a euphemism for brahmin hatred, brahmins must become, well, brahmins first!eace:Else, it's impossible to contribute to the welfare of our community.

 

[silverfox]

Dear Maruti:
You may have a point here! This is my personal view!!

 

[Vaylan]

Silverfox - please see your PM box

 

[Shanti Brahm]

We Are Brahmin Regardless How We Live

Which is why educating our community is important. Most brahmins are ignorant, and periyarists exploit this ignorance to poison their minds. To stop periyarism, which is a euphemism for brahmin hatred, brahmins must become, well, brahmins first!eace:Else, it's impossible to contribute to the welfare of our community.

I don't see the great need in forcing Brahmins to be orthodox and vegetarian. These things come on their own. My husband came from a very affluent family and did his education in USA in early 1970's when society was getting more open and liberal among the young members of Brahmin community. He used to eat meat and smoke,drink and do much that he learned from American way of life. But early on in our marriage he slowly gave all bad habits up one by one, took up more traditional lifestyle of doing sandyavandanam and all by his own volition.

Who can say why people change? I believe that being in the mere presence of sattwic guna or the presence of holy people or tejas brahmans can make a great impression in one's life. We feel less of it now so less people feel the influence of this satsang.

Also we should not have such a high criteria for being Brahmin. Being of a certain lineage is good enough. This is how society defines us regardless of whether we are practicing, atheist, modernist, each and every shade you can think of.

 

[mrifan]

Fifth column

Mr. Gurumurthy, if you are not already familiar with the title of this post, you should look it up. This will answer your final question below. The problem with some of the fifth columnists is that they sometimes underestimate the intelligence of the target group, and forget that there are going to be some wolves among that target group who can sniff out these fifth columnists.

Dear Sri.Maruthi Sir,

So you entertained doubt about his ability to contribute to the Brahmin community…..Is it not? You are also desirous of understanding in what way he is different from Periyarists? And you link this with your perception of modern Brahmins similarities to periyarists whom they hate.

Is entertaining doubt about the writers ability is a subject related question?

Is posing personal questions such as ‘what way you are different’ is a subject enlighten?

Is asking the writer to write the way you want [i.e., by expressing your belief that modern Brahmins are very similar to periyarists whom they hate] is what uniting Brahmins and all others writings are dividing?

It seems to me that something else is bothering you and you do not want this thread to be taken to the end desired by the writer. His writings are really interesting enlighten to people like me. I can also read your views if you present that in a different thread of your own.

GURUMURTHYJI

 

[KRS]

Dear Srimati Shanti Brahm Ji,

I read your other posting in a thread where a war of words is going on between folks. I was afraid to put my two cents in, out of fear of being mis understood. You on the other hand, in a very short few sentences, clarified the issue. Gita says that the repository of culture in the society are the women folk. So, in my opinion, your gender have a lot more to say in terms of the affairs concerning the culture (including marriage). Thank you.

Thank you also for contributing here. We will see from the series of the postings to come that the current 'Brahmin' culture has a huge spectrum of variations. I am just hoping to explain this without raising rancour or division and with love towards our community.

Pranams,
KRS

 

[NARAS]

SIR - there is no question of 'forcing' here. after all nowadays, there is no central authority for bramins like pope in christianity. and there is no such thing as 'infidel' in brahminism unlike islam. at the best we can exert moral, voluntary pressure in many ways on meat eating, drinking ,smoking bramins .
asking a bramin to abstain from meat, alcohol & cigarettes is not a 'high' criteria by any means. if bramins start consuming meat, cigarettes & alcohol, what respect will other castes have for us?we will reduce ourselves to laughing stock.
i do not see anything wrong in trying to morally force a bramin to become vegetarian. but i think you should not force anybody , even morally, to become orthodox. because it is not that easy. we can divide believers into 4 groups - a)those who believe in orthodoxy b) those who have respect c)those who have knowledge about orthodoxy & d) those who follow orthodoxy.
of this (a) & (b) i.e. belief and respect is very easy and not foolproof. because, even a person who does not have belief or respect in orthodox can act as if he has belief and respect. but (c) & (D)are very difficult and foolproof. because you cannot act as if you have knowledge about orthodoxy, because your ignorance will expose you. 99% of bramins in todays world including myself, belong to (a) & (b). most of us do have some knowledge about orthodoxy, and follow it to some extent, but not totally. this does not mean we are 'rationalists'.. it is the MOTIVE which is very important. the motive of 'rationalists' is to defame orthodoxy, where as the motive of bramins who do not follow orthodoxy is different. it is because they are not in a position to follow orthodoxy in present day conditions that they are not doing that. but many bramins do support orthodoxy in as many ways as possible.
Talking about motive, reminds me of bhagavad gita. i remember ,karunanidhi alleged a few years back, that Gita was a book which encourages warfare, because , even the god is assisting in the battlefield. but gandhiji has said many years before that, in mahabaratha, the pandavas , who win the war , are not shown as living happily thereafter. in fact, the pandavas, after winning the war, are shown as suffering, more than kauravas, the losers! the pandavas die unhappy deaths in the end. so the motive Gita was not to glorify warfare, but to point out that in a war there are no victors at all. But the motive of the karunanidhi is not to find out facts in proper perspective but to throw mud on vedic religion.

 

[Shanti Brahm]

Thank you KRS Ji! You are too kind

Please continue, I'm eager to read your next installment

Shanti

Dear Srimati Shanti Brahm Ji,

I read your other posting in a thread where a war of words is going on between folks. I was afraid to put my two cents in, out of fear of being mis understood. You on the other hand, in a very short few sentences, clarified the issue. Gita says that the repository of culture in the society are the women folk. So, in my opinion, your gender have a lot more to say in terms of the affairs concerning the culture (including marriage). Thank you.

Thank you also for contributing here. We will see from the series of the postings to come that the current 'Brahmin' culture has a huge spectrum of variations. I am just hoping to explain this without raising rancour or division and with love towards our community.

Pranams,
KRS

 

[KRS]

Third Posting

Folks,

(Sorry for such a long posting!)

Let me summarize my two previous postings so far(with some expansions):

1. Adi Purusha sacrificed Himself to create the Universe. From his mouth (signifying 'sound' which is the most important part of our scriptures - Strutis) the original Brahmin was born. His role in the society was to follow the Brahminical Dharma. So, in sequence a Kshatriya, a Vaishya and a Sudhra were created from the shoulders, legs and the feet respectively to complete the roles in the society.

2. Two take away points:
a) Hinduism is based on sacrifice for the welfare of the mankind - in particular by the first three Varnas, which were created to support the society. Sudhras, were created to serve the first three Varnas, but in return those Varnas were created to serve to the well being of this Varna (the 'twice born' ceremony therefore applies to only the first three Varnas, as that ritual (Upanayanam) marks the begining of the sacrifices each of the three Varnas to start making on behalf of the whole society. Sudhras, were thus relieved of any such requirements to sacrifice for the society, because of what is expected of them. But clearly as the Varna, least 'endowed' in terms of skills in the society, they were to be supported by the other three Varnas with no restrictions.
b) Initially, the Varnas talk about the qualities required to fulfill the Dharmas assigned to each Varna. No birth right is spelled out.

Next we talked about the meaning of 'Dharma'. It is God's Law or opne may say the 'Nature's Law'. This is the Law that makes a bird to fly, instead of swimming under water, broadly speaking. A writer must write, a singer must sing and so on. But for the masses, these 'special' skills may not be known that easily. Most of us do not know what our 'gifts' are in our childhood. Only a few of us, like the sage Vishwamithra understood his gift and these folks are always in the minority in the population.

We ended the last posting with the story of 'Satyakama, son of Jabala' where he did not know his lineage as his mother was a 'loose' woman, but by his reply to his prospective Guru, the nature of who a 'Brahmin' is, was revealed. Above anything else, a Brahmin must always speak the truth and be transparent, because 'Dharma' can also mean the 'Truth'.

So, what other qualities must a 'Brahmin' possess?

There is a beautiful story about a 'Yaksha' who having put all the younger four Panadava brothers in a death strance, challenges the 'Son of Dharma' to answer a series of questions correctgly to grant the lives of his brothers. This is the 'Yaksha Prasna' chapter of Mahabaratha. When the Yaksha asks Dharmaputra 'Who is a Brahmin?', he answers (correctly), 'A Brahmin is not the one who knows the Vedas alone. He should be of Brahminical character'.

So, what is a 'Brahminical' charecter?

Lord Krishna in Bhagavadgita defines clearly the qualities or duties of a Brahmin as per the Gunas born of their own nature are: Serenity, self-restraint, austerity, purity, forgiveness, uprightness, knowledge,
realization, belief in a hereafter.

The Maha Periaval of Kanchi Kamakoti Peetam declares that each Brahmin must posses the following eight charecteristics (From the Book "Hindu Dharma" by HHShankaracharya Sri Chandrasekhara Saraswathi Swamigal):

"The eight gunas or qualities are : daya, ksanti, anasuya, sauca, anayasa, mangala, akarpanya, asprha.
"Daya" implies love for all creatures, such love being the very fulfilment of life. There is indeed no greater happiness than that derived by loving others. Daya is the backbone of all qualities.
"Ksanti" is patience. One kind of ksanti is patiently suffering disease, poverty, misfortune and so on. The second is forgiveness and it implies loving a a person even if he causes us pain and trouble.
"Anasuya" you know is the name of the sage Atri's wife. She was utterly free from jealousy : that is how she got the name which means non-jealousy. Heart-burning caused by another man's prosperity or status is jealousy. We ought to have love and compassion for all and ought to be patient and forgiving even towards those who do us wrong. We must not envy people their higher status even if they be less deserving of it than we are and, at the same time, must be mature enough to regard their better position as the reward they earned by doing good in their previous life.
"Sauca" is derived from "suci", meaning cleanliness. Purity is to be maintained in all matters such as bathing, dress, food. There is a saying often quoted even by the unlettered: "Cleanliness makes you happy and it even appeases your hunger". To see a clean person is to feel ourselves clean.
In Manu's listing of dharmas that are applicable to all, ahimsa or non-violence comes first, followed by satya (truthfulness), asteya (non-covetousness; non-stealing is the direct meaning), sauca (cleanliness) and indriya-nigraha (subduing the senses or even obliterating them).
The fifth Atmaguna is "anayasa". It is the opposite of "ayasa" which denotes effort, exertion, etc. Anayasa means to have a feeling of lightness, to take things easy. One must not keep a long face, wear a scowl or keep lamenting one's hardships. If you lose your cool you will be a burden to yourself as well as to others. Anayasa is a great virtue. In many of our rituals there is much bodily exertion. When we perform a sraddha we have to remain without food until 2 or 3 in the afternoon. There is no end to the physical effort we have to put in to conduct a sacrifice. Here anayasa means not to feel any mental strain. Obstacles, inevitable to any work or enterprise, must not cause you any mental strain. You must not feel any duty to be a burden and must develop the attitude that everything happens according to the will of the Lord. What do we mean when we remark that the musician we listened to yesterday touched the "tara-sthayi" so effortlessly? Does it mean that he performed a difficult musical exercise with ease? Similarly, we must learn to make light of all the hardships that we encounter in life.
What is "mangala", the sixth guna? Well, "mangala" is mangala. There is mangala or an auspicious air about happiness that is characterised by dignity and purity. One must be cheerful all the time and not keep growling at people on the slightest pretext. This itself is extremely helpful, to radiate happiness wherever we go and exude auspiciousness. It is better than making lavish gifts and throwing money about.
To do a job with a feeling of lightness is anayasa. To be light ourselves, creating joy wherever we go, is mangala. We must be like a lamp spreading light and should never give cause for people to say, "Oh! he has come to find fault with everything". Wherever we go we must create a sense of happiness. We must live auspiciously and make sure that there is happiness brimming over everywhere.
"Akarpanya" is the next guna. Miserliness is the quality of krpana or miser. "Akarpanya" is the opposite of miserliness. We must give generously and whole-heartedly. At Kuruksetra Arjuna felt dejected and refused to wage war with his own kin. In doing so, according to the Gita, he was the guilty of "karpanya dosa". It means, contextually, that he abased himself to a woeful state, he became "miserly" about himself. Akarpanya is the quality of a courageous and zestful person who can face problems determinedly.
"Asprha" is the last of the eight qualities. "Sprha" means desire; a grasping nature. "Asprha" is the opposite, being without desire. Desire is at the root of all trouble, all evil and, all through the ages, it has been the cause if misfortunes. But to eradicate it from the mind of men seems an almost impossible task. By performing rites again and again and by constantly endeavouring to acquire the Atmic qualities one will eventually become desireless. Says Valluvar:
Parruga parrarran parrinai apparrai
parruga parru vidarku
Tirumular goes a step further. "It is not enough, " he says, "to be attached to Isvara who is without attachment and be free from other attachments. You must be able to sever yourself from the attachment to Isvara himself".
Asai arumingal, asai arumingal
Isanodayinum asai arumingal
The Buddha calls desire thirst. Intense desire for an object is "trsna". ( The Buddha calls it "tanha" in Prakrt). His chief teaching is the conquest of desire.
Desirelessness is the last of the eight qualities. The first one, daya, is the life-breath of Christianity. Each religion lays emphasis on a particular quality, though all qualities are included in the teachings of Buddha, Jesus Christ, the Prophet Mohammed, Guru Nanak, Zoroaster, Confucius and the founders of all other religions. Even if these qualities may not have been pointedly mentioned in their teachings, it is certain that none of them would regard people lacking them with approval."

In the next posting, we will discuss what the 'modern' Hindus (Bhagawan Vivekananda and Gandhi Ji) say about the 'charecteristic' of a Brahmin.

Pranams,
KRS

 

[mrifan]

Sanskrit transliterations

Mr. KRS,

I think it might be of use to post the Sanskrit excerpts also of the relevant stanzas. Sometimes, things are lost in translation, but for those of us who know Sanskrit, we may be able to point out other meanings of the stanzas, rather than take them at face value.

Also, the transliteration scheme for Devanagari script -> Latin script has been standardized. For an example, one can go to http://www.kamakoti.org/main/j_nam4.pdf to view an example of the transliteration. I also did read parts of the book Hindu Dharma on www.kamakoti.org. If a similar transliteration scheme is used, it would probably set the tone and meter of the verses appropriately.

Of course, the above is only a request to increase the clarity of the posts, but as Brahmanas, shouldn't we always try to strive for the utmost quality in our diction and prose? After all, that is the mark of an intellectual class, like the ones our ancestors wanted us to be.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Mrifan Ji,

Alas, I am not an 'intellectual'. The only reason I started this thread is not because I am an intellectual not that I am a 'scholor'. I am an ordinary person with low intellect trying to fathom and understand the crux of my religion. Having been at it for the last ten years or so, I have my own point of view, which I hope will add value here, to people like myself.

I have studied Sanskrit in my High School and even though I had Sanskrit as a 'second' language in my college, I was able to answer most of my Sanskrit exams in English! So, you are looking at a person who has a scant knowledge of Sanskrit today. This is a person who, after having lived in the west for almost 39 years, still trying to figure out how to communicate effectively in English!

So, please bear with my ignorance! I will try to quote in Sanskrit as much as I can.

Pranams,
KRS

 

[NARAS]

sir - had you named this thread as WHO 'WERE' WE? then what you said about qualities which bramins should possess would have been 100% correct. but since you hve named this thread as WHO 'ARE' WE it clearly means you are denoting present day bramins. IMHO, all the qualities you have mentioned are to be possessed by all human beings all over the world. what do you think are the EXCLUSIVE & COMPUSORY qualities which a bramin must possess- which persons of other categories need not? ( in my view it is the "V" factor which i have mentioned so many times)

 

[Chintana]

We are because we were

Dear Naras,

Who we are today is a product of who we were in history. We are produced/constituted by history, social and political conditions. We need to take an assessment of who we were and what we did to understand where we need to go. So I don't think KRS's argument was particularly out of line.

You are right in saying that the qualities of Brahmins are to be possessed by everybody universally. That was the whole point of being accorded a position at the top of the social pyramid - so that they could be visible examples to the rest of the community.

Where they differ from others is in the way they have arranged and organized rituals, personal practices and habits to intensely focus on development of one's consciousness (of course that means development of one's character and intellect at a basic level and education, social responsibility and arts at a broader level).

sir - had you named this thread as WHO 'WERE' WE? then what you said about qualities which bramins should possess would have been 100% correct. but since you hve named this thread as WHO 'ARE' WE it clearly means you are denoting present day bramins. IMHO, all the qualities you have mentioned are to be possessed by all human beings all over the world. what do you think are the EXCLUSIVE & COMPUSORY qualities which a bramin must possess- which persons of other categories need not? ( in my view it is the "V" factor which i have mentioned so many times)

 

[KRS]

Truth in Advertising

Folks,

I started this thread some time ago, as you all know only after soliciting input from each of you as to whether this topic and thread would be useful to you. In answer to the majority of your responses, I continued.

But in the mean time, there was a thread which went through a voting process, where a thread's continued existence was put to a vote, which is great. But during the course of it, Sri Chintana Ji, inadvertently mentioned this thread as the one to be voted on.

Now, I do not usually believe in 'coincidences' generally. Obviously he had the titles between the threads mixed up, but then this tells me for some reason, this thread also fell in his casual mind in the 'controversial' column. (Sorry, Sri Chintana Ji, this is not a knock against you, as I have alredy seen how judicious you are, in terms of the Forum administration).

But again, I do not want to intrude myself in a space where my ideas are not welcome. This happened to me in an another Forum, where I was branded as a 'secularist' and was called all sorts of names (including a 'Fakir') for speaking my mind.

Again, some information about myself:

1. I was brought up in a conservative Iyer joint family, by my paternal uncle, after I lost my father who was the patriarch of the whole family when I was five.

2. I did not have, for some reason the 'normal' Brahmin upbringing. I was left to my own wits, with no guidance, as my eldest brother was almost 10 years older and was off to medical school away from home. So, in essence I grew up by myself, as my uncle did not take any interest.

3. I chose my own majors in college and came to USA in 1970 for Graduate education and was a professional student here, obtaining a Masters in Physics, ABT in Nuclear Physics and an MBA. I did not start work till I was 32.

4. I was all set to marry a girl my mother was about to pick for me, but lo and behold, I met this Jewish girl at the University (love at first sight), proposed after 10 days (which she accepted!) and we lived happily ever after for 27 years, producing two fine boys, who are very precious to me. I unfortunately lost her in year 2000, due to cancer.

5. I am now happily married to a divorced Brahmin girl with two beautiful children (a boy and a girl) and we now constitute an 'our children' family. We are all now very close.

6. I am gainfully employed in the IT industry (been for the past 27 years), but over the past 10 years, for some reason I have been directed towards the philosophy of our religion. I have no idea why this is so. I can narrate here some very strange incidences involving some of our Gurus, but suffice it to say, that I enetered this 'spiritual' field with questions and without faith.

7. So, my perspectives are different and are not orthodox. I am not here to preach, nor am I here to push my agenda. My only duty is towards my forefathers on whose giand shoulders I stand on, and as such if I want to speak my mind on my heritage, it is only because I owe it to them.

8. My only 'value add' to you is that I have done everything and have seen everything. I have traveled extensively around the globe. And I am not dogmatic and my only love is towards my community, because I want to know 'who am I?'.

So, there you go. You all now know about me now. If you all want me to shut up and go away, I will happily do that. I have no ego problem in terms of 'pushing' my ideas. But if you want me to continue (administrators included), I will do so, with the knowledge that I can contribute to the well being os our community in some way.

Sorry for such a long essay about 'I'. but in this context I thought it was necessary.

Pranams,
KRS

 

[Chintana]

Too quick to judge?

Dear Sri KRS,

This has reference to your posting #186, i.e., the one posted just before this one. Since your posting is long I didn't quote it.

I recognize that I mentioned the "who are we" thread by accident and posted a follow up acknowledging the mistake and specifying the correction.

But, on to a bigger issue that you have brought up (which is a very important one), I think you might not have had a chance to read the following message (posting #121 on the Intra Human Marriages thread). I am reproducing it here for your benefit and for that of all those who post to this thread.


Posting #121: Intra Human Marriages Thread


Dear Posters,

It occured to me that a few clarifications (following the matter in my quote) may be in order.

Our stance on intercaste marriage is as follows:

1. We recognize that several of our members may already be married, some within the caste and some outside. We DO NOT PASS JUDGMENT against any member who has married outside the caste as those persons thought it was the right thing to do at the time. We respect that decision. We value all members including those who have married outside the caste as the intention behind their membership is to help the community in some way. We welcome that.

2. We recognize that marriage is a personal choice. However our 'community building' intention prompts us to suggest to our unmarried members to consider persons within the community if that seems like a good option that is still open for you.

3. We'd like to move forward in our activities from where things currently are. And that means we accept you for who you are and we are glad you are here.

We hope our association is of mutual benefit and I wish you many fruitful moments.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chintana
It looks like you are advocating a point of view that will dissolve our community. Anybody who has tried "eradicating jathis" has failed in the past including Mahatma Gandhi. We believe that given current conditions eradicating jathis is not an option open to any caste group in our society. We need to rely on our community for all kinds of things.

In today's context almost every caste group has an association and is keen on promoting the interests of its own members. This forum does not see why our community should be an exception.

Love marriages can take place even within a single caste group. One does not have to eradicate caste to have love marriages.

I'd like for you to recognize that this forum, as a whole does NOT support the idea that caste CAN be eradicated.

I will let this posting stand as it has given me an opportunity to establish what the forum is about and what it is not about.

But any more 'caste/jathi eradication' ideas from you will not find a place here, i.e., I will remove that posting. If you want to advocate that view I am sure you will find plenty of other avenues. We will be sorry to see you go but if you give us no other option we will exercise it.

 

[Chintana]

First steps toward a new direction?

Dear Posters,

Proceeding from the recent exchange between Sri KRS and I, I am laying out a few more clarifications.

To us, the first steps toward building up our community means we ACCEPT all members of our community FOR WHO THEY CURRENTLY ARE.

My personal take on this is that several of our members were born and raised under less than ideal conditions such as geographical dispersion due to migration, not having adequate resources flowing from the community - ranging from basic family/community communication such as explanations to our various rituals and practices to important materialistic conditions such as not having adequate contacts that could help secure a job or living. This state, to me at least, may have occured due to various reasons - probably a general sense of fear that prevented our community members from coming together at a crucial time, our small numbers AND their dispersal. The net result has been to lose a sense of bonding with our own kind.

It would be foolish of us at this forum to hold this against any member who has chosen to ally with other community members whether through marriage or business.

You are here with us now. That's what matters as it means a lot to us.

I respect all of those valiant Brahmins who have gone out there and made it out there on their own despite the persecution, the condemnation and all of the other hurdles, expressed and unexpressed. In this regard, I deeply respect Sri KRS's disclosure and would like to assure him that he is most welcome to have a home with us, if he should so choose.

We are happy to start providing you all with the community feeling that you have deserved all your life.

We invite you to be part of a conscious development of how we want to move forward TOGETHER (unlike in the past, when we were too shackled by environment (call it tradition, call it ritual, dogma...take your pick)).

In this effort, if some traditions make sense let us retain them. Lets debate it out in our threads. If our travels and experiences have taught us otherwise, let us match them up with our philosophy to see how we can fit that in ways that can change tradition.

This is YOUR home, YOUR community - through this forum we are glad to provide you with an opportunity to shape it - this time through proper communication, a sense of acceptance and tolerance if not love, a sense of responsibility and care.

We hope our wholehearted acceptance of all our members serves as a first step towards building a sense of TOGETHERNESS.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Chintana Ji,

Thank you for your kind words. I feel reassured that my ideas are welcome here in this Forum.

The reason for me to go in to my background, though distatsteful, is because I want folks to understand where I am coming from, in terms of my perspectives. I am proud to have been born a Tamil Brahmin, but then, I do not think that we should be an island un to ourselves. While preserving our culture, I think we should borrow what is good in other cultures. Because a culture that thinks that it 'knows' everything will eventually die. While celebrating our uniqueness, we need to realize that all the Tamils are our own brethren, whether they 'hate' us or not. We need to systematically show the rest of our brethren why 'they' are integrated in to us.

As we know, even within our community, we have divisions along the lines of philosophies. And even within these particular philosophies, we have divisions according to our Sutras. While these divisions should not matter, we all know that they do divide us culturally. As simple as who serves the 'annam' first or 'paruppu' first during dinner! And we follow these Sambradhayams, out of respect to our elders.

How to unite, while preserving our roots? This is why I started this thread, posing a question.

So, I will continue on with my fourth posting within the next couple of days.

Pranams,
KRS

 

[Chintana]

Island

Dear Sri KRS,

While I do see the merit in your argument I'd like for you to be aware that Brahmins have perhaps had more of an open attitude toward other communities than they seem to have had toward us.

Brahmins are and have been constant targets of mockery in Tamil cinema and several other public oriented activities such as political speeches and such. And other communities stand by and watch them.

We have had an egalitarian attitude but have not been respected for that attitude. Instead we've been made fun of for 'not having been able to unite', for being 'weak' and 'ineffective'.

While we do not want to be an island unto ourselves as you put it, we also want to be clear about what our responsibilities are toward our community. To that end we want to find common elements amongst ourselves (all of the various factions that you mentioned) that we actively want to grow. Our existential confusions apart (which we can debate out in these threads), we NEED to figure out a practical platform which makes sense to all shades of adherents in our community.

Alliances, other communities oriented attitudes etc., they will come once we get up on our feet.

Currently we are bothered that any random person can harm a Brahmin and there is NOBODY to take up for that person.

We all agree that the reservation policy is lopsided yet we don't have a single efficient association from our community that can voice our opinion in TN.

I am upset that a Brahmin in Tamil Nadu is the butt of ludicrous jokes in TN that rob her/him of dignity.

We first want to address this issue. We want to look at community building ideas and thoughts because we want to provide a sense of safety, which we grossly lack today. That sense of safety is important for the community. Let us build our house first. Building relationships with neighbors will follow later.

Toward this end we also want to lay out what it means to be responsible toward the community.

I request you to kindly read my recent posts in the intra human marriages thread (I think a few posts starting from page 6 or 7 upto 10 or 11) and write me for more clarifications. Please also read my responses to Maruti's postings in this thread.

On another note, may I request that you break up your posts into smaller ones so that it will be easier to read? This is purely a personal request, doesn't have anything to do with forum rules.

Thanks.

Dear Sri Chintana Ji,

Thank you for your kind words. I feel reassured that my ideas are welcome here in this Forum.

The reason for me to go in to my background, though distatsteful, is because I want folks to understand where I am coming from, in terms of my perspectives. I am proud to have been born a Tamil Brahmin, but then, I do not think that we should be an island un to ourselves. While preserving our culture, I think we should borrow what is good in other cultures. Because a culture that thinks that it 'knows' everything will eventually die. While celebrating our uniqueness, we need to realize that all the Tamils are our own brethren, whether they 'hate' us or not. We need to systematically show the rest of our brethren why 'they' are integrated in to us.

As we know, even within our community, we have divisions along the lines of philosophies. And even within these particular philosophies, we have divisions according to our Sutras. While these divisions should not matter, we all know that they do divide us culturally. As simple as who serves the 'annam' first or 'paruppu' first during dinner! And we follow these Sambradhayams, out of respect to our elders.

How to unite, while preserving our roots? This is why I started this thread, posing a question.

So, I will continue on with my fourth posting within the next couple of days.

Pranams,
KRS

 

[Chintana]

New Thread - Part II of this discussion

Dear all,

We need to move to a new thread as we have reached the cap of 20 pages.

We have decided to cap the number of pages in order to facilitate easier moderation as it is hard to sift through 80 odd pages to keep track of a discussion.

So I am going to move some of our latest postings to Who are We? - Part II.

Please keep it coming.

Regards,
Chintana