Why do we worship God when we know Karma ‘s effect can not be changed ?

[Padmanabhan Janakiraman]

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Why do we worship God when we know Karma ‘s effect can not be changed ?


According to Karma theory positive actions results in one’s positive experience.

Whereas negative action results in negative experience. The effects may be seen immediately or delayed. Sometimes the delay may be indefinite due to the intervention of God’s grace.

God does play a role as dispenser of Karma.

Take for example that we buy a medicine and it has its expiry date,

Printed on it saying “Best before …… a date is mentioned if we do not take that medicine before the expiry date, the effect of that medicine is weakened or sometimes there is no effect.


Similarly when we worship God and surrender to Him in true sense, God as dispenser of Karma can delay the effect of Karma indefinitely or make it ineffective as in the case of Medicine and expiry date mentioned above.


So a good astrologer can predict our bad period based on planetary / star positions, by worshiping God, and surrendering to Him, the bad period may be postponed indefinitely. That is why there is a need to worship God all the time, more so when we are facing bad period or when we know we are going to face bad period




This post is for sharing knowledge only, no intention to violate any copyrights.

 

[renuka]

Though Karma cant change but we can upgrade our operating system by praying to God and change our ways and gradually align with God in our ownselves.

 

[prasad1]

Though Karma cant change but we can upgrade our operating system by praying to God and change our ways and gradually align with God in our ownselves.

Prayer has no power to change anything. By calming the mind, we can come to the realization. The Bhakti Marg, which in my opinion is borrowed from the Abrahamic religion, I Sanatan Dharma, states that there is no meeting your maker after death. So you do not have to praise or pray.

Karma and samsara

Karma translates literally as action, work, or deed, and also refers to a Vedic theory of "moral law of cause and effect". The theory is a combination of (1) causality which may be ethical or non-ethical; (2) ethicization, that is good or bad actions have consequences; and (3) rebirth. Karma theory is interpreted as explaining the present circumstances of an individual concerning his or her actions in the past. These actions may be those in a person's current life, or, in some schools of Hinduism, possibly actions in their past lives; furthermore, the consequences may result in current life or a person's future lives. This cycle of birth, life, death, and rebirth is called samsara. Liberation from samsara through moksha is believed to ensure lasting happiness and peace. Hindu scriptures teach that the future is both a function of current human effort derived from free will and past human actions that set the circumstances.

Moksha
The ultimate goal of life, referred to as moksha, nirvana or samadhi, is understood in several different ways: as the realization of one's union with God; as the realization of one's eternal relationship with God; the realization of the unity of all existence; perfect unselfishness and knowledge of the Self; as the attainment of perfect mental peace; and as detachment from worldly desires. Such realization liberates one from samsara, thereby ending the cycle of rebirth, sorrow, and suffering. Due to belief in the indestructibility of the soul, death is deemed insignificant for the cosmic self.

The meaning of moksha differs among the various Hindu schools of thought. For example, Advaita Vedanta holds that after attaining moksha a person knows their "soul, self" and identifies it as one with Brahman and everyone in all respects.

Sanatana Dharma - Dharmapedia Wiki

en.dharmapedia.net

 

[Padmanabhan Janakiraman]

Though Karma cant change but we can upgrade our operating system by praying to God and change our ways and gradually align with God in our ownselves.

Sairam Renuka , the Post is wholly based in Sri Sathya Sai Baba 's Teachings..
Can the effects of past karma ever be mitigated by grace? Bhagwan emphatically answers this question that often bothers us.
Today’s Sai Inspires from Prasanthi Nilayam - 31 Oct, 2013
Some might argue that the inheritance (Karma) of the previous births has to be suffered in this birth and that no amount of grace can save you from that. Evidently, someone has led you to believe so. The Grace of the Almighty knows no bounds or limits! I assure you, you need not suffer from Karma like that. When severe pain torments you, the doctor gives you a pain killer injection and you do not feel the pain, though it is there in the body. God’s Grace is like the pain-killer. Nothing can stay in the way of the Grace of the Lord. If you win His Grace, you will not feel the pain, though you go through Karma. Just as medicines with expired dates are ineffective, so too, the effect of Karma is then rendered ineffective, or null and void!
- Sri Sathya Sai Baba
- Divine Discourse, Nov 23, 1964.

 

[renuka]

Prayer has no power to change anything. By calming the mind, we can come to the realization. The Bhakti Marg, which in my opinion is borrowed from the Abrahamic religion, I Sanatan Dharma, states that there is no meeting your maker after death. So you do not have to praise or pray.

Karma and samsara

Karma translates literally as action, work, or deed, and also refers to a Vedic theory of "moral law of cause and effect". The theory is a combination of (1) causality which may be ethical or non-ethical; (2) ethicization, that is good or bad actions have consequences; and (3) rebirth. Karma theory is interpreted as explaining the present circumstances of an individual concerning his or her actions in the past. These actions may be those in a person's current life, or, in some schools of Hinduism, possibly actions in their past lives; furthermore, the consequences may result in current life or a person's future lives. This cycle of birth, life, death, and rebirth is called samsara. Liberation from samsara through moksha is believed to ensure lasting happiness and peace. Hindu scriptures teach that the future is both a function of current human effort derived from free will and past human actions that set the circumstances.

Moksha
The ultimate goal of life, referred to as moksha, nirvana or samadhi, is understood in several different ways: as the realization of one's union with God; as the realization of one's eternal relationship with God; the realization of the unity of all existence; perfect unselfishness and knowledge of the Self; as the attainment of perfect mental peace; and as detachment from worldly desires. Such realization liberates one from samsara, thereby ending the cycle of rebirth, sorrow, and suffering. Due to belief in the indestructibility of the soul, death is deemed insignificant for the cosmic self.

The meaning of moksha differs among the various Hindu schools of thought. For example, Advaita Vedanta holds that after attaining moksha a person knows their "soul, self" and identifies it as one with Brahman and everyone in all respects.

Sanatana Dharma - Dharmapedia Wiki

en.dharmapedia.net

Prayer can change ourselves.
It changes our thought waves if done sincerely.
Yes, it calms the mind..and in that calmer mind we make better choices and behave better.
But this ONLY works if we are willing to introspect and realize our faults and short comings.

Then we do see we get guidance and signals from any direction and through anyone.

 

[renuka]

Prayer has no power to change anything. By calming the mind, we can come to the realization. The Bhakti Marg, which in my opinion is borrowed from the Abrahamic religion, I Sanatan Dharma, states that there is no meeting your maker after death. So you do not have to praise or pray.

Karma and samsara

Karma translates literally as action, work, or deed, and also refers to a Vedic theory of "moral law of cause and effect". The theory is a combination of (1) causality which may be ethical or non-ethical; (2) ethicization, that is good or bad actions have consequences; and (3) rebirth. Karma theory is interpreted as explaining the present circumstances of an individual concerning his or her actions in the past. These actions may be those in a person's current life, or, in some schools of Hinduism, possibly actions in their past lives; furthermore, the consequences may result in current life or a person's future lives. This cycle of birth, life, death, and rebirth is called samsara. Liberation from samsara through moksha is believed to ensure lasting happiness and peace. Hindu scriptures teach that the future is both a function of current human effort derived from free will and past human actions that set the circumstances.

Moksha
The ultimate goal of life, referred to as moksha, nirvana or samadhi, is understood in several different ways: as the realization of one's union with God; as the realization of one's eternal relationship with God; the realization of the unity of all existence; perfect unselfishness and knowledge of the Self; as the attainment of perfect mental peace; and as detachment from worldly desires. Such realization liberates one from samsara, thereby ending the cycle of rebirth, sorrow, and suffering. Due to belief in the indestructibility of the soul, death is deemed insignificant for the cosmic self.

The meaning of moksha differs among the various Hindu schools of thought. For example, Advaita Vedanta holds that after attaining moksha a person knows their "soul, self" and identifies it as one with Brahman and everyone in all respects.

Sanatana Dharma - Dharmapedia Wiki

en.dharmapedia.net

I am not 100% sure if Bhakti marg was due to Abrahamic influences.
But I cant deny it either.
But feeling the God factor and singing in His glory works well for me.

 

[tbs]

hi

bhakti is one way of worship....karma is also worship.....karma can't change ....but god woeship can give

mental satisfaction as well as karma effect may little positive change....like medicine can reduce

pain...bhakthi marg in bhagavad gita......may be before abhrahamic religions....in my opinion...

 

[a-TB]

Why do we worship God when we know Karma ‘s effect can not be changed ?


According to Karma theory positive actions results in one’s positive experience.

Whereas negative action results in negative experience. The effects may be seen immediately or delayed. Sometimes the delay may be indefinite due to the intervention of God’s grace.

God does play a role as dispenser of Karma.

Take for example that we buy a medicine and it has its expiry date,

Printed on it saying “Best before …… a date is mentioned if we do not take that medicine before the expiry date, the effect of that medicine is weakened or sometimes there is no effect.


Similarly when we worship God and surrender to Him in true sense, God as dispenser of Karma can delay the effect of Karma indefinitely or make it ineffective as in the case of Medicine and expiry date mentioned above.


So a good astrologer can predict our bad period based on planetary / star positions, by worshiping God, and surrendering to Him, the bad period may be postponed indefinitely. That is why there is a need to worship God all the time, more so when we are facing bad period or when we know we are going to face bad period




This post is for sharing knowledge only, no intention to violate any copyrights.

I am sure there are many threads on this topic. I have tried to get an understanding that is without contradiction and also look for what is authentic when the general term scriptures are quoted. Mostly false beliefs , demonstrably false assumptions and false quotes is all I find. Falsity can be proven but truth need not be proved.

None of the major Upanishad proposes or supports karma model as is commonly in the folklore. Gita has something to say but its message is not to prove the theory. For example, in chapter 2 the vision is that I am not born and hence no death. How can there be a rebirth ? Yet that topic’s real message is not to prove rebirth. What the real message is a different discussion in a given context in Gita

We suffer or enjoy and often the disparity is not explainable by human logic. So you postulate a prarabdha karma from a prior birth. The real meaning of prarabdha is entirely misunderstood and this karma theory itself is within the domain of religious beliefs. In truth and in science there is no free will. Only illusion of free will. There is no destiny either for time and future itself is illusion in Vedanta and science.

The idea that a god is out there waiting for the mortals he seemingly created so they can fall on his feet is altogether silly. It is all imagination. One Vedanta expert told me that there is a Brahmasutra saying god does not play favorites and does not reward those that worship him or her.

But transaction oriented corrupt mind wants to pray so as to get benefits. Whether you pray or not Sun provides benefits and punishment to all. No real God is pleased because someone prays.

Ignorance is in thinking that the suffering and pleasure is in outside events and things. For those deluded you need a karma theory, baseless astrology and remedies but they do not satisfy anyone.

Sathya Sai baba comments quoted is to give an at least answer to the deluded as above.

Here is a suggestion. Pray to a deity. Pick something which is not from a human mind as in a temple. Pick sun or moon or water bodies or air or the cosmos. Just meditate on the glory without expecting anything. You may like it. Let prarabdha unfold. It need not affect your inner peace

 

[renuka]

Sairam Renuka , the Post is wholly based in Sri Sathya Sai Baba 's Teachings..
Can the effects of past karma ever be mitigated by grace? Bhagwan emphatically answers this question that often bothers us.
Today’s Sai Inspires from Prasanthi Nilayam - 31 Oct, 2013
Some might argue that the inheritance (Karma) of the previous births has to be suffered in this birth and that no amount of grace can save you from that. Evidently, someone has led you to believe so. The Grace of the Almighty knows no bounds or limits! I assure you, you need not suffer from Karma like that. When severe pain torments you, the doctor gives you a pain killer injection and you do not feel the pain, though it is there in the body. God’s Grace is like the pain-killer. Nothing can stay in the way of the Grace of the Lord. If you win His Grace, you will not feel the pain, though you go through Karma. Just as medicines with expired dates are ineffective, so too, the effect of Karma is then rendered ineffective, or null and void!
- Sri Sathya Sai Baba
- Divine Discourse, Nov 23, 1964.

नेहाभिक्रमनाशोऽस्ति प्रत्यवायो न विद्यते |
स्वल्पमप्यस्य धर्मस्य त्रायते महतो भयात् || 40||

nehābhikrama-nāśho ’sti pratyavāyo na vidyate
svalpam apyasya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt

na—not; iha—in this; abhikrama—efforts; nāśhaḥ—loss; asti—there is; pratyavāyaḥ—adverse result; na—not; vidyate—is; su-alpam—a little; api—even; asya—of this; dharmasya—occupation; trāyate—saves; mahataḥ—from great; bhayāt—danger
nehabhikrama-nasho ’sti pratyavayo na vidyate
svalpam apyasya dharmasya trayate mahato bhayat

Translation
BG 2.40: Working in this state of consciousness, there is no loss or adverse result, and even a little effort saves one from great danger.


This gita shloka states about effort taken by working in the state of consciousness which has an effect to ward off great danger.

So which danger is warded off we might not know.
Our accumulated Karma too isnt black and white.
Its possible combinations of " positive and negative " effects is beyond our scope of understanding.
So all we have is our present.
The present in Sanskrit is called vartamAn, it stems from the root vRt which means turning.
Something ever moving and undergoes transformation.

So by transforming ourselves in the present the effects of our effort might help us get through any negative or postive effect of our karma.

I have included both "positive and negative: effect of our karma because sometimes what we feel is good for us might not be what is spiritually conducive for us.
A bad phase in life might torment us but it could have a greater transformative effect.

Ending my post with a verse from the Quran.

"Perhaps you dislike something which is good for you and like something which is bad for you. God knows and you do not know"

 

[a-TB]

नेहाभिक्रमनाशोऽस्ति प्रत्यवायो न विद्यते |
स्वल्पमप्यस्य धर्मस्य त्रायते महतो भयात् || 40||

nehābhikrama-nāśho ’sti pratyavāyo na vidyate
svalpam apyasya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt

na—not; iha—in this; abhikrama—efforts; nāśhaḥ—loss; asti—there is; pratyavāyaḥ—adverse result; na—not; vidyate—is; su-alpam—a little; api—even; asya—of this; dharmasya—occupation; trāyate—saves; mahataḥ—from great; bhayāt—danger
nehabhikrama-nasho ’sti pratyavayo na vidyate
svalpam apyasya dharmasya trayate mahato bhayat

Translation
BG 2.40: Working in this state of consciousness, there is no loss or adverse result, and even a little effort saves one from great danger.


This gita shloka states about effort taken by working in the state of consciousness which has an effect to ward off great danger.

So which danger is warded off we might not know.
Our accumulated Karma too isnt black and white.
Its possible combinations of " positive and negative " effects is beyond our scope of understanding.
So all we have is our present.
The present in Sanskrit is called vartamAn, it stems from the root vRt which means turning.
Something ever moving and undergoes transformation.

So by transforming ourselves in the present the effects of our effort might help us get through any negative or postive effect of our karma.

I have included both "positive and negative: effect of our karma because sometimes what we feel is good for us might not be what is spiritually conducive for us.
A bad phase in life might torment us but it could have a greater transformative effect.

Ending my post with a verse from the Quran.

"Perhaps you dislike something which is good for you and like something which is bad for you. God knows and you do not know"

This Gita verse quote is out of place, incorrectly understood and hence not applicable. Verse 39 introduces the wisdom of karma yoga which is an understanding. A state of consciousness that has this understanding in any karma done removes not danger but sense of fear or insecurity. It is a praise of karma yoga which is not karma. The topic continues with verse 41.
Karma yoga in this context is buddhi yoga.

 

[prasad1]

I am not 100% sure if Bhakti marg was due to Abrahamic influences.
But I cant deny it either.
But feeling the God factor and singing in His glory works well for me.

If it works for you, that is great.

 

[prasad1]

The idea that a god is out there waiting for the mortals he seemingly created so they can fall on his feet is altogether silly. It is all imagination. One Vedanta expert told me that there is a Brahmasutra saying god does not play favorites and does not reward those that worship him or her.

But transaction oriented corrupt mind wants to pray so as to get benefits. Whether you pray or not Sun provides benefits and punishment to all. No real God is pleased because someone prays.

Ignorance is in thinking that the suffering and pleasure is in outside events and things. For those deluded you need a karma theory, baseless astrology and remedies but they do not satisfy anyone.

Sathya Sai baba comments quoted is to give an at least answer to the deluded as above.

Here is a suggestion. Pray to a deity. Pick something which is not from a human mind as in a temple. Pick sun or moon or water bodies or air or the cosmos. Just meditate on the glory without expecting anything. You may like it. Let prarabdha unfold. It need not affect your inner peace

The song from Madhmathi sums it.

Haaye re

Mantra jhootha

Ha vaidya bhi jhootha

Chadh Gayo Papi Bichhua Lyrics in Hindi, Legendary Vyjayanthimala Chadh Gayo Papi Bichhua Song Lyrics in English Online on Gaana.com

Chadh Gayo Papi Bichhua Lyrics- Get Legendary Vyjayanthimala Chadh Gayo Papi Bichhua song Lyrics in Hindi. Check out Chadh Gayo Papi Bichhua song lyrics in English and listen to Chadh Gayo Papi Bichhua song sung by Lata Mangeshkar on Gaana.com

gaana.com

You can do self-hypnosis. And if it works for you, that is good for you.

 

[Padmanabhan Janakiraman]

While it is true that karma-phal has to be worked out and even Gods and gurus are not above its law, it is also true that complete faith and surrender to the Supreme can mitigate its ill-effects, sometimes to appear as even miraculous.
To begin with, even the fact that one is praying is because of some good karma, since one can only pray when one has the grace of the deity. In one of the verses of Tiruvasagam, the great 9th century Saivite saint Manikkavasagar says:
சிவன் அவன் என்சிந்தையுள் நின்ற அதனால்
அவன் அருளாலே அவன் தாள் வணங்கிச்
சிந்தை மகிழச் சிவ புராணம் தன்னை
முந்தை வினைமுழுதும் ஓய உரைப்பன் யான்.


Loosely translated it means, that he is able to worship Paramatma Shiva only because He is influencing his thoughts. And by reciting the pleasing Shiva Puranam, he can get all accumulated karma from past lives eradicated by the grace of Paramatma Shiva.


Coming down from the sublime Tiruvasagam to my plebian explanation, prarthanas/prayers are like appeals to the highest court by a convict for mitigation of a particularly harsh ruling by a lower court, knowing punishment is inevitable.


Our prayers – sincere ones where we accept the responsibility for our karma and ask for help to transcend them — can get divine help in several ways. The intensity of the situation might be reduced; there might be unexpected help to cope with it; reserves of endurance and strength might be discovered to deal with it, and many more unique ways in which we can get divine help.


Most of us would have heard the story of Ajamila from the Bhagavatam. This pious Brahmana lost all the merits he had accumulated due to his desire for a prostitute, for whom he abandoned his wife and children and his dharma. So burdened by worldly desires and attachments was he, that even on his deathbed, he couldn’t remember to chant God’s name. However, he called out to his youngest son whose name was Narayana. That was all that was needed to get him moksha. Imagine, a lifetime of paapa karmas nullified by chanting the name of Narayana just once!


That is why prayer is given so much importance as a form of worship in all religions. It holds an especially unique place in Hindu dharma as prarthana is not a rigid, timebound activity that has to be done to stave off the wrath of God.


Though rituals and puja routines are prescribed in the Vedas, the choice of the method of worship is entirely up to the individual. The only unwavering ingredient should be devotion, faith and patience to wait for the grace of the Supreme. Fortunately, it is comparatively easier in Kaliyuga to get the grace of the Supreme. For instance, in Satyuga, abstract meditation,


in Tretayuga, yagnas, and in Dwapara yuga, adoration were the requisites for moksha. All we need to do in KaliyuPrayers or prarthana should be a pure form of bhakti. It is important though, that the prayers should be the result of devotion and belief that God will take care of us to the extent we deserve, under the karmic cycle. ga is do namasankeertana!

 

[a-TB]

The song from Madhmathi sums it.

Haaye re

Mantra jhootha

Ha vaidya bhi jhootha

Chadh Gayo Papi Bichhua Lyrics in Hindi, Legendary Vyjayanthimala Chadh Gayo Papi Bichhua Song Lyrics in English Online on Gaana.com

Chadh Gayo Papi Bichhua Lyrics- Get Legendary Vyjayanthimala Chadh Gayo Papi Bichhua song Lyrics in Hindi. Check out Chadh Gayo Papi Bichhua song lyrics in English and listen to Chadh Gayo Papi Bichhua song sung by Lata Mangeshkar on Gaana.com

gaana.com

You can do self-hypnosis. And if it works for you, that is good for you.

There is a term Bhakti in Gita but it is not the Bhakti cult of today’s religions including all practices of Hindu religion.

What I mentioned in the last paragraph of my post does not fall into the religion category. I don’t expect many will be able to see the difference

 

[a-TB]

While it is true that karma-phal has to be worked out and even Gods and gurus are not above its law, it is also true that complete faith and surrender to the Supreme can mitigate its ill-effects, sometimes to appear as even miraculous.
To begin with, even the fact that one is praying is because of some good karma, since one can only pray when one has the grace of the deity. In one of the verses of Tiruvasagam, the great 9th century Saivite saint Manikkavasagar says:
சிவன் அவன் என்சிந்தையுள் நின்ற அதனால்
அவன் அருளாலே அவன் தாள் வணங்கிச்
சிந்தை மகிழச் சிவ புராணம் தன்னை
முந்தை வினைமுழுதும் ஓய உரைப்பன் யான்.


Loosely translated it means, that he is able to worship Paramatma Shiva only because He is influencing his thoughts. And by reciting the pleasing Shiva Puranam, he can get all accumulated karma from past lives eradicated by the grace of Paramatma Shiva.


Coming down from the sublime Tiruvasagam to my plebian explanation, prarthanas/prayers are like appeals to the highest court by a convict for mitigation of a particularly harsh ruling by a lower court, knowing punishment is inevitable.


Our prayers – sincere ones where we accept the responsibility for our karma and ask for help to transcend them — can get divine help in several ways. The intensity of the situation might be reduced; there might be unexpected help to cope with it; reserves of endurance and strength might be discovered to deal with it, and many more unique ways in which we can get divine help.


Most of us would have heard the story of Ajamila from the Bhagavatam. This pious Brahmana lost all the merits he had accumulated due to his desire for a prostitute, for whom he abandoned his wife and children and his dharma. So burdened by worldly desires and attachments was he, that even on his deathbed, he couldn’t remember to chant God’s name. However, he called out to his youngest son whose name was Narayana. That was all that was needed to get him moksha. Imagine, a lifetime of paapa karmas nullified by chanting the name of Narayana just once!


That is why prayer is given so much importance as a form of worship in all religions. It holds an especially unique place in Hindu dharma as prarthana is not a rigid, timebound activity that has to be done to stave off the wrath of God.


Though rituals and puja routines are prescribed in the Vedas, the choice of the method of worship is entirely up to the individual. The only unwavering ingredient should be devotion, faith and patience to wait for the grace of the Supreme. Fortunately, it is comparatively easier in Kaliyuga to get the grace of the Supreme. For instance, in Satyuga, abstract meditation,


in Tretayuga, yagnas, and in Dwapara yuga, adoration were the requisites for moksha. All we need to do in KaliyuPrayers or prarthana should be a pure form of bhakti. It is important though, that the prayers should be the result of devotion and belief that God will take care of us to the extent we deserve, under the karmic cycle. ga is do namasankeertana!

Siva purana is a modern purana. Not authentic compared to Puranas with deep messages

There is a lot of wrong ideas of surrender and Bhakti in the society which is immersed in superstitions as a way of life. There is no peace of mind from these ideas which are divisive. Most likely the abrahamic religious faith has permeated Hindu beliefs.

The real teachings are in Gita and the 10 Upanishads that Sankara commented on. I have not studied all thst to be able to explain well but have a bit of working level understanding to appreciate the genius of these texts to point in the right direction.

Smruthis , Puranas , superstitions and baseless religious practices and beliefs have distorted the vision. There is no respite in those beliefs. One has to discover that first.