Why no Navagraha in Sri Vishnu Temples?

[renuka]

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This seems to be a conveniently tailored definition of monotheism. I can quite agree that Rama, Sita and Hanuman are representations of the same divine. But then why not Vishwanatha, Siddhi Vinayaka and Calcutta Kali?

I agree..cos technically Vaishnavas believe that The Supreme is Lord Vishnu...so any side kicks should also be only his Mahima in various forms..so this should include every other worshiped.

So all forms should be viewed as from Lord Vishnu..and by strictly "rejecting" other forms like Shiva,Ganesha, Non Lakshmi Devis..that shows that these entities have a separate existence totally divorced from Vishnu that is why the "hostility" of some Vaishnavas when it comes to acceptance of other forms of worship.

So now if an entity can have a separate divorced existence from Lord Vishnu that means Lord Vishnu can NOT be supreme.

 

[zebra16]

This seems to be a conveniently tailored definition of monotheism. I can quite agree that Rama, Sita and Hanuman are representations of the same divine. But then why not Vishwanatha, Siddhi Vinayaka and Calcutta Kali?

And why just two avataras of Rama and Krishna? Why not matsya, koorma, varaha, vamana etc.?

 

[Jaykay767]

I am not sure, how did this whole discussion on polytheismvs monotheism turned into Shaivism vs Vaishnavism.

Vaishnavism isalso a form of polytheism, except that Lord Vishnu is the supreme lord similar tohow we Iyers worship Lord Shiva as supreme lord.

So Vaishnavites also worship other Gods like Hanuman,Sita etc.. who are not “avatarams” of Lord Vishnu.

 

[Raji Ram]

And why just two avataras of Rama and Krishna? Why not matsya, koorma, varaha, vamana etc.?

Dear Narayan Sir,

There are many temples for Varaha moorthi and Nithya Kalyanap Perumal in Thiruvidandhai has become very popular recently.


''Lord Nithya Kalyana Perumal, who blessed the 360 daughters of sage Kalava with marriage, bestows marital bliss and life-long prosperity to

all the ardent devotees worshiping at Thiruvidanthai.

Garlands of the deities are distributed to the aspirant, asking him/her to safeguard them in the pooja room, till the marriage, materializes.

After the marriage, dried garlands are to be returned to the temple by the happy newly-wed couple. There stands a huge tree as testimony,

holding thousands of dried garlands, after fulfilling the wishes of speedy wedlock to many a devotee.''

Source: PRAY AT THIRUVIDANTHAI, IF MARRIAGE IS GETTING DELAYED

 

[CHANDRU1849]

So all forms should be viewed as from Lord Vishnu..and by strictly "rejecting" other forms like Shiva,Ganesha, Non Lakshmi Devis..that shows that these entities have a separate existence totally divorced from Vishnu that is why the "hostility" of some Vaishnavas when it comes to acceptance of other forms of worship.

What is new in it? This is the view of other Hindus who worship Deities like Lord Shiva, Sakthi, Vinayaka, Muruga, Surya etc.

A staunch Shaivite or Sakthi Dasar will never consider Vishnu as the prime deity.

It is applicable to all Religions.

The moot point is whether Lakshmi and Anjaneya are classified as Gods and if not, why do they find a place in Perumal Temple and people worship them, including those who believe Vishnu is supreme?

The supremacy of Vishnu over others is restricted to those who place him on high pedestal, and for the rest, he is one of the so many Gods in Hinduism, and doesn't have any special significance.

This is my view.

 

[prasad1]

What is new in it? This is the view of other Hindus who worship Deities like Lord Shiva, Sakthi, Vinayaka, Muruga, Surya etc.

A staunch Shaivite or Sakthi Dasar will never consider Vishnu as the prime deity.

It is applicable to all Religions.

The moot point is whether Lakshmi and Anjaneya are classified as Gods and if not, why do they find a place in Perumal Temple and people worship them, including those who believe Vishnu is supreme?

The supremacy of Vishnu over others is restricted to those who place him on high pedestal, and for the rest, he is one of the so many Gods in Hinduism, and doesn't have any special significance.

This is my view.

Chandruji,
You have a valid point and you make a good case for it.
But beliefs are beyond explanations. Why can we not accept that we will have multiple POV, and leave it at that.

 

[renuka]

What is new in it? This is the view of other Hindus who worship Deities like Lord Shiva, Sakthi, Vinayaka, Muruga, Surya etc.

A staunch Shaivite or Sakthi Dasar will never consider Vishnu as the prime deity.

It is applicable to all Religions.

The moot point is whether Lakshmi and Anjaneya are classified as Gods and if not, why do they find a place in Perumal Temple and people worship them, including those who believe Vishnu is supreme?

The supremacy of Vishnu over others is restricted to those who place him on high pedestal, and for the rest, he is one of the so many Gods in Hinduism, and doesn't have any special significance.

This is my view.

Well I am not a Shaivite or Vaishnava or Shakta..so no Supreme God for me.

In the past I used to subscribe to Advaita and call everything as Brahman.

Now I have even dropped that concept and just simply exist.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Renu,

I have often times written that the Almighty is like Sugar which has the basic quality as sweet.
People like different kinds of sweets and similarly choose their own Ishta DevatA. :decision:

There are some enlightened ones who just exist, without belief in God. :thumb:

 

[Raji Ram]

I am not sure, how did this whole discussion on polytheismvs monotheism turned into Shaivism vs Vaishnavism. .........

Because some Vs think that they pray ONLY to Narayana where as S prays to very many Gods!

 

[sarang]

You mean tubelight?

Dear Renu,

I have often times written that the Almighty is like Sugar which has the basic quality as sweet.
People like different kinds of sweets and similarly choose their own Ishta DevatA. :decision:

There are some enlightened ones who just exist, without belief in God. :thumb:

 

[renuka]

You mean tubelight?

Nope...the tubelight is still very much like Dualism..there is the Tubelight and the Electricity and people to appreciate the light and sing in Glory in a Bhakti frenzy praising the Electricity illuminating the tubelight.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Well I am not a Shaivite or Vaishnava or Shakta..so no Supreme God for me.

In the past I used to subscribe to Advaita and call everything as Brahman.

Now I have even dropped that concept and just simply exist.

The question is not about your religious belief but polytheism.

Even the monotheistic sect in Hinduism viz., Shaivism has not been spared by polytheistic approach, though the presiding Deity has no form / idol or avatar. Despite that, most of the Hindu Gods, irrespective of sects, find a place in the Shiva Temples, including Vishnu in the name of Govindaraja Perumal in Chidambaram Nataraja Temple.

If that is the case, how come another Hindu sect Vaishnavism, which has multiple Gods, related in some way to the main deity, thru matrimony or avatar, can be called as monotheistic sect?

 

[tbs]

hi

monotheism and polythesism is just PHILOSOPHICAL THOUGHT OF RELIGION....but worshiping narayana/shiva are BHAKTHI THOUGHT

OF RELIGION...THESE TWO DIFFERENT THOUGHTS...SO ALL SIX THOUGHTS ARE BASED ON BHAKTHI....LIKE GAANAPATYAM,

SAAKTHAM ....KAUMAARAM....SOURAM....SHAIVAM ...VAISHNAVAM.....

 

[sarang]

That shows you don't know the meaning of tubelight.

Nope...the tubelight is still very much like Dualism..there is the Tubelight and the Electricity and people to appreciate the light and sing in Glory in a Bhakti frenzy praising the Electricity illuminating the tubelight.

 

[renuka]

The question is not about your religious belief but polytheism.

Even the monotheistic sect in Hinduism viz., Shaivism has not been spared by polytheistic approach, though the presiding Deity has no form / idol or avatar. Despite that, most of the Hindu Gods, irrespective of sects, find a place in the Shiva Temples, including Vishnu in the name of Govindaraja Perumal in Chidambaram Nataraja Temple.

If that is the case, how come another Hindu sect Vaishnavism, which has multiple Gods, related in some way to the main deity, thru matrimony or avatar, can be called as monotheistic sect?

I mentioned my personal believe to denote that its really hard for me to actually even know what is the mind of a Vaishnava or Shaivite for that matter.

I know some Shaivites hold Lord Shiva supreme but they still go to Vishnu temples.

In Msia most Non Brahmin Tamils are Shaktas but their Mecca is still Tirupathi.

BTW I feel the term Polytheist is a western word and not really even present in Sanskrit.

Sanskrit only has the word Matam meaning opinion..and the various matams are Vaishnava, Shaiva,Shakta, Baudha,Jaina etc.

So the western mind viewed this as Polytheistic becos they only had one Matam that is Christianity..even though they are many types of Christians like Catholics,Protestant,Seventh Day Adventist etc....they differ in some ways even though all accept Jesus.

Their main uniting factor is the Devil Concept.

So the western mind that only knew Jesus viewed the multiple manifestation of the Universal Consciousness as Polytheist.

 

[renuka]

That shows you don't know the meaning of tubelight.

I know the meaning yaar..its only used in India..tubelight means taking some time to come on denoting a slow mental pace!

Now Joke time:

How many Dualists does it take to fix a tube light?

One to place it..One to switch on the light..and a whole congregation to sing praises of it!

 

[a-TB]

Dear Renu,

I have often times written that the Almighty is like Sugar which has the basic quality as sweet.
People like different kinds of sweets and similarly choose their own Ishta DevatA. :decision:

There are some enlightened ones who just exist, without belief in God. :thumb:

It appears there is no common agreement among human beings on what this God idea is. We can be like animals and just exist (and can claim enlightenment as some may do)

 

[a-TB]

By simply existing and not claiming affiliation to anything some may feel a self granted license to pick on all others. While I am not here long enough to know what the underlying motive may be but sense a motive that is not nice.

I think there are some bent on picking on Vaishnavas without any substantive reasons other than making fun of forms of rituals , Namam etc.

Most Vaishnava people I know live and let live and are very respectful to others. Let us just respect their traditions and beliefs - that is a Hindu idea!

 

[Raji Ram]

It appears there is no common agreement among human beings on what this God idea is..........

Each individual, of course theist, will say that his or her God / Goddess is great!

'avanindRi OraNuvum asaiyAdhu' is believed by many and 'avan' refers to the ishta Devata - God / Goddess. ray:

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Renu,
There are some enlightened ones who just exist, without belief in God. :thumb:

And they have obtained the certificate from the central certifying authority that they are indeed enlightened in the midst of millions of sloths who wallow in ignorance. It is an exclusive club. LOL.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

By simply existing and not claiming affiliation to anything some may feel a self granted license to pick on all others. While I am not here long enough to know what the underlying motive may be but sense a motive that is not nice.

I think there are some bent on picking on Vaishnavas without any substantive reasons other than making fun of forms of rituals , Namam etc.

Most Vaishnava people I know live and let live and are very respectful to others. Let us just respect their traditions and beliefs - that is a Hindu idea!

Good post. The irony here is the intolerance shown towards vaishnavites while accusing the vaishnavites of the same intolerance.

 

[Vaagmi]

I know the meaning yaar..its only used in India..tubelight means taking some time to come on denoting a slow mental pace!

Now Joke time:

How many Dualists does it take to fix a tube light?

One to place it..One to switch on the light..and a whole congregation to sing praises of it!

Joke time continued:

How many monists does it take to fix a tube light?

what is tube and what is light? i am the tube and I am the light all inside the UC. I do not fix. I am already fixed. Go and get a fix if you want. The samadhi, nithidyasam and jeevanmuktha are three best brands. I got a fix of samadhi and it lasts for one week. My next due is only on monday. LOL.

 

[JR]

Actually there are many, many different versions of Shaivism, Smartism being just one of them. The others include Nandhinatha Sampradaya, Srauta Shaivism, Lingayats, Veera Shaivism, Kashmiri Shaivism and so forth.. and NONE of these Sampradayas accept the worship of Vaishnava deities. So what is the point in accusing Vaishnavas?

It has become a trend to bash Vaishnavas even if they do not exhibit any ill-will towards Shaivas. Let us leave alone Vaishnavas and their (our) worship of our devatas...

 

[biswa]

I don't think anyone should bash Vaishnavas since they are also Hindus and Hinduism is inclusive. However monotheism can and should be questioned. The notion that only one group knows the true God is quite ridiculous. And BTW all Vaishnavas are not monotheists. It is only a certain subset.

 

[JR]

What is the point in questioning anyone's faith or belief? There is no point in arguing against anyone's belief, as long as it does not hurt others. For example, one member constantly bashes our Vaishnava faith, even in one post before in this thread, he ridiculed the world's way of calling a beautiful woman as "looking like Mahalakshmi". At the beginning of my membership in this forum, he once posted comment comparing our Varaha avatara to something I do not want to talk about. Another member called Pancha Pandavas as "pimps" (maama pasanga) in another thread (all Vaishnava acharyas and Vaishnavas believe the pandavas as virtuous people) and then she said that our Acharya Sri Ramanuja's guru Yadava Prakasa did not plot for killing Ramanuja and it is all the "imagination" and "handiwork" of us Vaishnavas and in yet another thread called all Vishishtadvaitins as "dim-witted, less intelligent", etc... One can chastise such attitudes in the TB forum first, IMO.

PS: Ofcourse one can speak out one's heart, but it should not offend others following a particular faith!