Why South Indian Brahmins are intelligent?

[Nemmara Pattar]

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"I think all the problems started when the Varna group started disrespecting each other and hell broke loose cos it was not meant to be based on superiority. The Shankaracharya of Puri however adds that Varna of a Brahmin in Dwapara yuga allowed a child born from a Brahmin father and Kshatriya mother to be classified as a Brahmin." -- Srimathi Renuka, Gold Member.

Based on the principle of non-superiority, would it be logical and fair to say that sandals and shoes can be worn on the head and turbans and caps on the feet, that shoulders can take on the task of supporting the thorax from the thighs, that toes can be substituted for fingers, and so on and so forth? Extending the analogy, can the skin take over from the eyes, the ears take over from the tongue, the nose take over from the mouth?

Has the learned and highy-revered Puri-Shankarachaarya confirmed that Manu Smrithi is wrong and that in the Dvaapara-yugam a child born to a Kshathriya father and a Brahmin mother is not a chandaala?

Thanks.

S Narayanaswamy Iyer

 

[usaiyer]

There is no harm in earning wealth if it is earned in Dharmic ways, but the approach of the persons from the different varnas regarding this could be different. Wealth alone cannot
serve the wholistic needs of the society .If all go after wealth
and power arising out wealth ,the social dispensation and social cohesion and harmony may become a matter of concern and large inequalities may persist.
Also guidelines are there as to how the wealth earned has to be spent ,at least 10 % in charities, contribution to public welfare activities, health, education, religious activities and so on. Hoarding of wealth is was never encouraged.

 

[Mani_Chennai]

You asked me this
"By the way as a curiosity, at what age(range will be OK) when you did start your introspection"

My reply is
I always had the tendency to introspect even as a child until at times my mum used tell me to not think too much.
For eg on days which were rainy and cold, i would not use blanket and rather shiver , my mum would ask me why? I would say " some poor child might not have a blanket so i at least can feel the cold the child feels"..i was aged 9 or 10 that time.

So its sort of my nature to put myself in the shoes of others and it was for visible external situations.
As I grew older it took a deeper turn to focus on being able to leave myself out of any scenario and try to just see things as it is without being judgmental...but just to add I am just human and have my negative points too.

You are blessed as well as lucky. Were you the first child(eldest), last child or the middle one. I will say why later. Thanks and also is a learning experience.

 

[Mani_Chennai]

"I think all the problems started when the Varna group started disrespecting each other and hell broke loose cos it was not meant to be based on superiority. The Shankaracharya of Puri however adds that Varna of a Brahmin in Dwapara yuga allowed a child born from a Brahmin father and Kshatriya mother to be classified as a Brahmin." -- Srimathi Renuka, Gold Member.

Based on the principle of non-superiority, would it be logical and fair to say that sandals and shoes can be worn on the head and turbans and caps on the feet, that shoulders can take on the task of supporting the thorax from the thighs, that toes can be substituted for fingers, and so on and so forth? Extending the analogy, can the skin take over from the eyes, the ears take over from the tongue, the nose take over from the mouth?

Has the learned and highy-revered Puri-Shankarachaarya confirmed that Manu Smrithi is wrong and that in the Dvaapara-yugam a child born to a Kshathriya father and a Brahmin mother is not a chandaala?

Thanks.

S Narayanaswamy Iyer

By twisting facts, one can not make others understand any point. If head is bald and the only way sandals in the head will save it from the Sun, people will do it as the bottom solves can withstand more heat. One is Chandala and not by birth. Most bogus Brahmin - never honest, bogus prayers, explicit rituals, qouating slokas heard in Harikatha Kaleshepam, but with evil mind is below Chandala. By birth no one is Barhmin. Viswamitra(if you believe ) was not a Brahmin by birth but elevated himself to Brahminhood and asked Rama to kill Thadka(which he could himself have done). So, there are Brahmana-Kshatriya, Kshatria-Brahmana, Vaisya-Brahmana, Brahman-Vaisya etc., by their behavior towards the society. When Brahman is become to greedy for whatever reason, he becomes Brahman-Chandala.
I am not attacking your, but being a Brahman by birth became Brahman when I forced my mother to feed a poor Harijan boy, gave him free tutoring, helped the poor by physically (was poor) and every one respects me even if I say to them I am not a Brahman, but a honest human being. I sleep so deep without worrying about self judgment or that of others. I only care about if some one is making my payments or I pay for them.
You are entitled for your opinion and neither I have the right or inclination to change it. That is not my job, rather live like a real sympathetic human being.
Sorry for the long reply/

 

[sravna]

"I think all the problems started when the Varna group started disrespecting each other and hell broke loose cos it was not meant to be based on superiority. The Shankaracharya of Puri however adds that Varna of a Brahmin in Dwapara yuga allowed a child born from a Brahmin father and Kshatriya mother to be classified as a Brahmin." -- Srimathi Renuka, Gold Member.

Based on the principle of non-superiority, would it be logical and fair to say that sandals and shoes can be worn on the head and turbans and caps on the feet, that shoulders can take on the task of supporting the thorax from the thighs, that toes can be substituted for fingers, and so on and so forth? Extending the analogy, can the skin take over from the eyes, the ears take over from the tongue, the nose take over from the mouth?

Has the learned and highy-revered Puri-Shankarachaarya confirmed that Manu Smrithi is wrong and that in the Dvaapara-yugam a child born to a Kshathriya father and a Brahmin mother is not a chandaala?

Thanks.

S Narayanaswamy Iyer

Dear Sir,

Nothing can take over the other. Each does its function and the whole needs all of the parts. There is indeed no superiority of one over the other and the notion of superiority is what pulls us down more even as we go up.

 

[sravna]

I observe something very funny when people lecture on how Brahmins should not possess any sense of superiority. Let me add that I am also of the same view. But I hold it universally. So when these same men would want us to believe and tout somewhat shamelessly the superiority of westeners their credibility takes a severe beating.

 

[Mani_Chennai]

I observe something very funny when people lecture on how Brahmins should not possess any sense of superiority. Let me add that I am also of the same view. But I hold it universally. So when these same men would want us to believe and tout somewhat shamelessly the superiority of westeners their credibility takes a severe beating.

The sad thing is neither they will understand nor listen. The Chinese proverb says" Intelligent people no no advice, the stupid will never understand"- so keep quite.

 

[renuka]

You are blessed as well as lucky. Were you the first child(eldest), last child or the middle one. I will say why later. Thanks and also is a learning experience.

I am the only daughter and a middle child.

 

[renuka]

"I think all the problems started when the Varna group started disrespecting each other and hell broke loose cos it was not meant to be based on superiority. The Shankaracharya of Puri however adds that Varna of a Brahmin in Dwapara yuga allowed a child born from a Brahmin father and Kshatriya mother to be classified as a Brahmin." -- Srimathi Renuka, Gold Member.

Based on the principle of non-superiority, would it be logical and fair to say that sandals and shoes can be worn on the head and turbans and caps on the feet, that shoulders can take on the task of supporting the thorax from the thighs, that toes can be substituted for fingers, and so on and so forth? Extending the analogy, can the skin take over from the eyes, the ears take over from the tongue, the nose take over from the mouth?

Has the learned and highy-revered Puri-Shankarachaarya confirmed that Manu Smrithi is wrong and that in the Dvaapara-yugam a child born to a Kshathriya father and a Brahmin mother is not a chandaala?

Thanks.

S Narayanaswamy Iyer

Your name seems familar, are you the former advocate?
If so then Hi! long time no see.

Ok coming to your questions about non superiority<

I am pasting what you must be knowing well from the Purusha Shuktam.

brā̠hma̠ṇō̎sya̠ mukha̍māsīt । bā̠hū rā̍ja̠nya̍ḥ kṛ̠taḥ ।
ū̠rū tada̍sya̠ yadvaiśya̍ḥ । pa̠dbhyāgṃ śū̠drō a̍jāyataḥ ॥

Ok it clearly talks about division as a unit and no where it states one is higher than another or one is lower than the other.
This is what equality is about that all can function as a single unit having specialized departments and mutual respect should pervail.

Let's take something else:

1)A Neuro surgeon with neurological issues(at the region of the head and brain)
2) An Orthopedic surgeon deals with the limbs...both upper limbs and lower limbs and spine too.
3)Cardio Thoracic surgeon deals with the ailments of the Cardiovascular system requiring surgery.
4)Hepato billiary surgeon deals with the the Hepatic surgical issues.


Ok, is anyone superior or inferior here?
All 4 are sub specialized surgeons.
They function in a specific format.


Again, lets take a look at the Gita.
I am not too sure if you are the Advocate Narayanaswamy, cos I remember you are not fond of Lord Krishna from your older posts in forum.
If you are someone else and not the advocate then I think you should be Gita friendly.

Chapter 4: Transcendental Knowledge​

TEXT 13
catur-varnyam maya srstam
guna-karma-vibhagasah
tasya kartaram api mam
viddhy akartaram avyayam

Here again, no indication of any ranking of superiority or inferiority.

Regarding what Puri Shankaracharya said may be you could contact him and ask him.

As far I know per Manu smirti a progeny of a Kshatriya father and Brahmin mother is a Suta.
If a father is a Shudra and the mother is a Brahmin the progeny is a Chandala per manu smirti.

 

[sravna]

The sad thing is neither they will understand nor listen. The Chinese proverb says" Intelligent people no no advice, the stupid will never understand"- so keep quite.

And it is the common who are brainwashed

 

[sravna]

The sad thing is neither they will understand nor listen. The Chinese proverb says" Intelligent people no no advice, the stupid will never understand"- so keep quite.

I disagree with this " keep quiet" approach. I believe things can be made to happen to people and to society. All it takes is a leader who is uncompromising, relentless, dharmic, shrewd and courageous to steer the movement. India is one billion plus people. It is not impossible for a person of such qualities to crop up. India is a land which has thrown up towering geniuses time and again. Time is ripe now for it to happen again.

We are definitely pushing in the wrong direction. A sense of resignation is the last thing we want. People should be made sensitive to the atrocities committed around them and be made to think that moral wrongdoing should not be passively accepted or allowed.

Human mind I believe is unbelievably capable. It can both be immensely destructive or constructive. Let's tap the latter Goodness can also be made to spread fast if the right approach is taken. Please let's not just keep quiet

 

[Nemmara Pattar]

Sri Mani Chennai says:-

"If head is bald and the only way sandals in the head will save it from the Sun."

Which brings me to the popular saying in Kerala: "komanam azhichchu thalai-kettu kettuka" -- undo your loin-cloth (only attire) and tie it as your turban.

Perhaps Sri Mani Chennai, who quoted "the stupid will never understand"- so keep quite"
has never heard of the great Chinese Communist leader Mao Tse-tung, who said "Let a hundred flowers bloom, let a hundred schools of thought contend."

Q. E. D.

 

[Nemmara Pattar]

Sri Mani Chennai boasts:-

"I forced my mother to feed a poor Harijan boy, gave him free tutoring, helped the poor by physically (was poor) and every one respects me."

Sure. Right.

Everyone would I am sure respect him even more if he --

(a) had rescued an innocent Hindu or a Sikh girl from the jaws of a "love-jihad" seduction, rape, impregnation, and subsequenr abandonment, or

(b) had extended his charity to an impecunious Brahmana archakar family whose only means of existence (the wage-earner's job) was forcibly taken away on purely political grounds and given to a Dalit whereby the non-offending Brahmana family lost not only their home but were driven to beg in the streets solely because of their caste, or

(c) had tutored a Brahmana girl or boy who had been discriminated against on grounds of caste by the powers that be and barred from getting a decent education because through no fault of their own they were not born to Dalits or OBCs, or

(d) contributed his mite to the funeral/last rites, vivaaham, or upanayanam expenses of an impecunious Brahmana family in dire need of external help.

Every one of us, including the so-labelled "Forward classes" pays taxes and levies in one form or other to the Government coffers. Do not these taxes and levies go to advance the education, housing , employment, health needs, and indeed the entire livelihood, of the Dalits throughout the country?

Has this not resulted in creation of the "creamy layer" where the successful and powerful Dalits and OBCs exploit and prey upon their fellows? Has this not encouraged raging corruption thoughout the country?

 

[usaiyer]

Do they not boil down to “Yatha
Raja,Thatha Praja Axiom !!!
The intellectuals role in society is almost negligible .
we need a strong social reformer to revert the decline in values in the society.

 

[Mani_Chennai]

I disagree with this " keep quiet" approach. I believe things can be made to happen to people and to society. All it takes is a leader who is uncompromising, relentless, dharmic, shrewd and courageous to steer the movement. India is one billion plus people. It is not impossible for a person of such qualities to crop up. India is a land which has thrown up towering geniuses time and again. Time is ripe now for it to happen again.

We are definitely pushing in the wrong direction. A sense of resignation is the last thing we want. People should be made sensitive to the atrocities committed around them and be made to think that moral wrongdoing should not be passively accepted or allowed.

Human mind I believe is unbelievably capable. It can both be immensely destructive or constructive. Let's tap the latter Goodness can also be made to spread fast if the right approach is taken. Please let's not just keep quiet

It has been proven that you need a critical mass of 3.5% of the population to make changes. Also one's upbringing and financial and political strength can help. People lament write here. May I ask you that people who want to change , have they gone on non-violent fast until death protests? Keep quite does not mean be silent, rather find united front and a leader than can lead without self importance. Rajaji shouted against liquor business, did he succeed?. Organizing from the roots take lots of dedication, same goal and so on. Right time and place is the key. Without offending your perception, have you participated in any “fast undo death” to establish anything? I have done got burned. In general, people want benefit but not sacrifice. Shouting in Brahman forum has not changed anything or it is not visible. We want others do the dirty work and benefit from it(though explicitly it many not be obvious).

That being said, time takes care of things in its own way. One Rama, one Gandhi to change things does not happen often. If you suggest and help to organize in every village and city small dedicated and motivated youngsters to make small but significant changes, then it will take a national root and changes may occur. I did social work for several years, lost money and found out 99.9% are verbal heroes. That is why I said keep silent and wait for opportunity. Brahman groups and Neem tree forests are not possible as they compete with each other and not with outside entities.

I am not bitter but shared my experience. Of course, you are welcome to protest in anyway you like that is your right and do not need any one's approval.

 

[prasad1]

Do they not boil down to “Yatha
Raja,Thatha Praja Axiom !!!
The intellectuals role in society is almost negligible .
we need a strong social reformer to revert the decline in values in the society.

We need social reformers, that is understood.
But whose value will be restored?

Let us take the case of Abraham Lincoln in the USA.
He won the emancipation of the slaves. He was a social reformer.
From the slaves' point of view, he did well. But from Southern slave owners' point of view, they lost a lifestyle.

Not all changes are welcomed by all.

 

[Mani_Chennai]

We need social reformers, that is understood.
But whose value will be restored?

Let us take the case of Abraham Lincoln in the USA.
He won the emancipation of the slaves. He was a social reformer.
From the slaves' point of view, he did well. But from Southern slave owners' point of view, they lost a lifestyle.

Not all changes are welcomed by all.

When you don't have not found a partner, there is no meaning about talking about the naming of the child!. Values which are good for common people and not based on rituals etc. It will evolve. What is going on is the way things have evolved. Take for example, many Brahman boys now have mustache to be part of the crowd, but not have tuft(Kudui), they eat chicken etc.,Gandhi, Abraham Lincoln can not change any thing now, as people are worried about houses, cars, higher positions, money but not humanity. So quoting outdated leaders including Shanakara, Ramanuja cannot change things because we have uncontrollable growth of human population with limited resources. Any change should start with Family planning but even after COVID people will not change. Time is not ripe. Also, the members of this forum or other caste have not united their own people with common good. This is not to argue with you, but we should talk about values , when the structure is first established. Just thinking aloud and not an attack on your views and perceptions.

 

[Mani_Chennai]

Sri Mani Chennai boasts:-

"I forced my mother to feed a poor Harijan boy, gave him free tutoring, helped the poor by physically (was poor) and every one respects me."

Sure. Right.

Everyone would I am sure respect him even more if he --

(a) had rescued an innocent Hindu or a Sikh girl from the jaws of a "love-jihad" seduction, rape, impregnation, and subsequenr abandonment, or

(b) had extended his charity to an impecunious Brahmana archakar family whose only means of existence (the wage-earner's job) was forcibly taken away on purely political grounds and given to a Dalit whereby the non-offending Brahmana family lost not only their home but were driven to beg in the streets solely because of their caste, or

(c) had tutored a Brahmana girl or boy who had been discriminated against on grounds of caste by the powers that be and barred from getting a decent education because through no fault of their own they were not born to Dalits or OBCs, or

(d) contributed his mite to the funeral/last rites, vivaaham, or upanayanam expenses of an impecunious Brahmana family in dire need of external help.

Every one of us, including the so-labelled "Forward classes" pays taxes and levies in one form or other to the Government coffers. Do not these taxes and levies go to advance the education, housing , employment, health needs, and indeed the entire livelihood, of the Dalits throughout the country?

Has this not resulted in creation of the "creamy layer" where the successful and powerful Dalits and OBCs exploit and prey upon their fellows? Has this not encouraged raging corruption thoughout the country?

Done most, got burned and got out. Reality and ideals do not match.

 

[Mani_Chennai]

Done most, got burned and got out. Reality and ideals do not match.

Sorry nothing was done expecting any respect from any one. Whatever I did was from my heart not because I am a Brahmin. So, I am not interesting in going and saving a Sikh girl etc., which is beyond my strength and circumstances. Have you done that yet?

 

[Mani_Chennai]

Sri Mani Chennai says:-

"If head is bald and the only way sandals in the head will save it from the Sun."

Which brings me to the popular saying in Kerala: "komanam azhichchu thalai-kettu kettuka" -- undo your loin-cloth (only attire) and tie it as your turban.

Perhaps Sri Mani Chennai, who quoted "the stupid will never understand"- so keep quite"
has never heard of the great Chinese Communist leader Mao Tse-tung, who said "Let a hundred flowers bloom, let a hundred schools of thought contend."

Q. E. D.

What was missing was, in a country when no one wears a Kovanam, the one who wears is a crazy guy and thus, he used his Kovanam as a head gear. Kelara Brahmins are very jovial and I know a few. Thanks. Look at Chine after Mao, if that happens here, we will also see a hundred schools of thought and flowers blooming along with stealing secrets from the West to uplift India like China is doing. But a good thought. Thanks for making me recall and laugh a few times Nemmara Patter.

 

[sravna]

We need social reformers, that is understood.
But whose value will be restored?

Let us take the case of Abraham Lincoln in the USA.
He won the emancipation of the slaves. He was a social reformer.
From the slaves' point of view, he did well. But from Southern slave owners' point of view, they lost a lifestyle.

Not all changes are welcomed by all.

Reform is changing points of view for the overall good of society and not about satisfying everyone's view.

 

[sravna]

The reformer in addition to his stellar qualities should ideally be part of government and should be given unrestricted powers to set right the situation.

 

[Mani_Chennai]

The reformer in addition to his stellar qualities should ideally be part of government and should be given unrestricted powers to set right the situation.

Dreams too are helpful. But in fractured India, political corruption, and even the opposition wants to destroy Modi without telling how and what alternaitve directions is the norm. Sorry, I am not cynical but could not control my wishful inner thought. No offense and apologies.

 

[sravna]

It has been proven that you need a critical mass of 3.5% of the population to make changes. Also one's upbringing and financial and political strength can help. People lament write here. May I ask you that people who want to change , have they gone on non-violent fast until death protests? Keep quite does not mean be silent, rather find united front and a leader than can lead without self importance. Rajaji shouted against liquor business, did he succeed?. Organizing from the roots take lots of dedication, same goal and so on. Right time and place is the key. Without offending your perception, have you participated in any “fast undo death” to establish anything? I have done got burned. In general, people want benefit but not sacrifice. Shouting in Brahman forum has not changed anything or it is not visible. We want others do the dirty work and benefit from it(though explicitly it many not be obvious).

That being said, time takes care of things in its own way. One Rama, one Gandhi to change things does not happen often. If you suggest and help to organize in every village and city small dedicated and motivated youngsters to make small but significant changes, then it will take a national root and changes may occur. I did social work for several years, lost money and found out 99.9% are verbal heroes. That is why I said keep silent and wait for opportunity. Brahman groups and Neem tree forests are not possible as they compete with each other and not with outside entities.

I am not bitter but shared my experience. Of course, you are welcome to protest in anyway you like that is your right and do not need any one's approval.

Dear Shri Mani,

Thanks for elaborating. First of all I now firmly believe that is has to come from the top and the corruption has gotten very deep rooted. The person in charge has to have the compassion of Jesus, the ferocity of Narasimha and the higher dharmic ways of Krishna as appropriate. India will definitely throw up such a person. It is only such a deadly combination that can shake up the deeply entrenched immorality and the brazenness towards righteousness.

As I said he should be part of the government and should be given unlimited powers.

 

[renuka]

Dear Shri Mani,

Thanks for elaborating. First of all I now firmly believe that is has to come from the top and the corruption has gotten very deep rooted. The person in charge has to have the compassion of Jesus, the ferocity of Narasimha and the higher dharmic ways of Krishna as appropriate. India will definitely throw up such a person. It is only such a deadly combination that can shake up the deeply entrenched immorality and the brazenness towards righteousness.

As I said he should be part of the government and should be given unlimited powers.

Sravna,
OMG! where are you going to find anyone with qualities of Jesus, Narasimha and Krishna.
You forgot to add Buddha..( He had very good analytical ability and mapped out the basis for Advaita philosopy which Adi Shankara expanded upon)