Why was Mahabali killed?

[sangom]

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Oh Sangom..

here you go again..1st I was a terrorist..then a Bull(Bison) Now I am a frog hhheehe
You know you are actually funny..you make me laugh..
Cool it yaar why you getting so worked up calling me Megalomaniac etc..
I am sure your heart rate must be some 120 beats per minute now.
I can feel your anger here on the Richter Scale here..dont have a Tsunami of emotions ok..I dont want to be responsible for your cardiac arrest.

Its Ok yaar if I am a frog in a well at least I croak Narayana Narayana..I dont spit out venom.

Hey Sangom Ji..you know I stop reading your other so called learned Threads long back cos its of no use..see knowledge has to be put to good use and when you spit venom here but write all so called Jnaana stuff somewhere else..it only goes to show you have no coordination in Thoughts Words and Deeds..

Ok you know from being Terrorist..then Bison(Bull) now I am a frog and that too a Megalomaniac one..hey wait a minute now you are also saying I have wife and kids..heheheehh you have even changed my sex..

anyway be cool be happy..dont get so mad for small things in life yaar..

I have a song for you..Its from my Jati only ( Manduka Jati)


YouTube - Crazy Frog - We Are The Champions (Ding a Dang Dong)

Smt. Renuka,

To use your own phraseology (with difficulty, of course), "here you go again yaar... may be cos u go on croaking "Narayana Narayana" you take different and fresh avataars from a mahiśi, to maṇḍūka and then megalomaniac, hehehe."

I do not write any "learned Threads" or "Jnaana stuff" but only whatever little I know. It matters little (or is it two hoots?) who reads those or who does not. In any case if maṇḍūkamahiṣis do not read the posts so much the better.

Whereas the venom I spit makes you laugh (as per your own averment) your output makes me (and some others too, as seen from pms) cry; so which is better— the venom or the so-called nectar given out by you?

I am not changing your sex (here, wait a minute - you bring sex, not I) or granting you wife and kids; it is your own creation - read your post again carefully.

Who is/was getting mad, whose heart rate was going up and all, most of us here know and share the jokes too. But for FITWs it may not be within their accessibility. And the only esoteric messenger for them who used to give data inputs in dream sequences is gone... finally! The next life line which they prefer to clutch seems to be youtube video clips

 

[sangom]

Renu: How many of you who are willing to have an alternate final rites as a send off and not permit Geeta and Garuda Purana to be read when you die.

Am donating all working parts of my body for organ transplantation. Whatever else remains i ask to be burned in an electrical crematorium or thrown into the sea. No burning wood, no rituals, nothing required.

I hope i go to hell. Am sure i will meet many friends there, including the ones that are saints and super-religious. And am sure we will continue our forum discussions in hell. Except that we need not type, so it wud be more fun.

Happy Hindu,

I earnestly cherish that most of our Gurus/ Godmen/Godwomen/Swamijis, etc., will be there in heaven and I go to hell or vice versa. After all once we are fully prepared to accept the inevitable why bother further?

Having said that Smt. Renuka's query was probably not to you, I feel. She seems to be disillusioned with the male gender as a whole except Shri Nara, of course and her challenge was to the non-believer males only IMO.

 

[renuka]

Smt. Renuka,

To use your own phraseology (with difficulty, of course), "here you go again yaar... may be cos u go on croaking "Narayana Narayana" you take different and fresh avataars from a mahiśi, to maṇḍūka and then megalomaniac, hehehe."

I do not write any "learned Threads" or "Jnaana stuff" but only whatever little I know. It matters little (or is it two hoots?) who reads those or who does not. In any case if maṇḍūkamahiṣis do not read the posts so much the better.

Whereas the venom I spit makes you laugh (as per your own averment) your output makes me (and some others too, as seen from pms) cry; so which is better— the venom or the so-called nectar given out by you?

I am not changing your sex (here, wait a minute - you bring sex, not I) or granting you wife and kids; it is your own creation - read your post again carefully.

Who is/was getting mad, whose heart rate was going up and all, most of us here know and share the jokes too. But for FITWs it may not be within their accessibility. And the only esoteric messenger for them who used to give data inputs in dream sequences is gone... finally! The next life line which they prefer to clutch seems to be youtube video clips

Hey Sangom,,
Cool it man ..i have seen this before..

Whenever there is a decline in Testosterone
Anger will "incarnate" from Rage to Rage..

Aadhunik Manduka Purana

See Nature understands well..when Nature takes away something
It replaces it with another..

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Epics and Purnas are interpreted in different ways. The so called orthodox Hindus interpret as literal truth. Then the caste researchers interpret many of the episodes as caste conflicts. Then the feminists look at from their point of view. They write Sitayana. Add to this the so called rationalists who quote the Epics and Puranas to substantiate their point of view.

The shocking truth is all these people believe that Epics and Puranas represent real and actual history. All their theories are based on that.

There are a few who consider the epics and Puranas as fiction and historical fiction at best. But then you do not get to hear their views because the Orthodox, the feminists, the rationalists and the like form a vast majority. They need it to be factual to justify their theories.

So do not blame only the orthodox Hindus.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Most of the translations of the Epics and Puranas are sanitized. Though Valmiki wrote that Ravana pulled Sita by her hair and took her on his lap, it was modified in the later versions because of the sensibilities of the people.

Lakshmana not only cut off Meenakshi's nose but also her breasts. That is why I was talking about molestation.

But what does this show? Lakshmana was a hot tempered man who did not even know what he was doing when he got angry. He exhibits these tendencies later also when he talks about Sugriva. Lakshmana is considered an Avatara of Adisesha. The later Avatara of Adisesha namely Balarama also exhibits such traits.

I told my children that if anger could make a noble person like Lakshmna do these things, how much can it do to an ordinary person. The moral is that Uncontrolled anger can make a Devil out of an angel. So control your anger.

Now let us see see how it will be interpreted by other groups.

Orthodox: Lakshmana is an avatara of Adisesha. He can do no wrong. Meenakshi attacked Sita.

Feminists: This show the low esteem that women were held.

Caste researchers: Meenakshi was a Rakshasa. She was a tribal native to the soil. Lakshmana was a Kshatriya. This is an indication of how badly the tribals/indigenous people were treated.

Rationalists: Lakshmana is an Avatara of Adisesha. This indicates how Gods did ungodly things.

When we talked to our children about Lakshmana we emphasized his devotion to his brother. We did it as a part of strategy to avoid sibling rivalry.

 

[happyhindu]

Epics and Purnas are interpreted in different ways. The so called orthodox Hindus interpret as literal truth. Then the caste researchers interpret many of the episodes as caste conflicts. Then the feminists look at from their point of view. They write Sitayana. Add to this the so called rationalists who quote the Epics and Puranas to substantiate their point of view.

The shocking truth is all these people believe that Epics and Puranas represent real and actual history. All their theories are based on that.

There are a few who consider the epics and Puranas as fiction and historical fiction at best. But then you do not get to hear their views because the Orthodox, the feminists, the rationalists and the like form a vast majority. They need it to be factual to justify their theories.

So do not blame only the orthodox Hindus.

Even if the Puranas do not represent an iota of any actual event, yet there must be some reason why these puranas were written between 500 BC to 15th century AD. Most puranas were composed between 300 to 1000 AD and some were interpolated between 8th to 12 th century AD. All this does mean something. It shows how society was changing. Atleast we know that such stories were "created" (and they do reflect social changes during each puranic episode).

Anyways, i wud appreciate some inputs for this post 38 : http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/6446-why-mahabali-killed-4.html#post78761

 

[sravna]

Mahabali was most likely killed because he was an asura and the descendants would thus be asuras. The lord did not want to let adharma get established in any way.

 

[sangom]

Hey Sangom,,
Cool it man ..i have seen this before..

Whenever there is a decline in Testosterone
Anger will "incarnate" from Rage to Rage..

Aadhunik Manduka Purana

See Nature understands well..when Nature takes away something
It replaces it with another..

Smt. Renuka,

Nature, I am told is even-handed. It replaces estrogen deficiency (PMS) also with high irritability and slight disorientation too perhaps . lol

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Even if the Puranas do not represent an iota of any actual event, yet there must be some reason why these puranas were written between 500 BC to 15th century AD. Most puranas were composed between 300 to 1000 AD and some were interpolated between 8th to 12 th century AD. All this does mean something. It shows how society was changing. Atleast we know that such stories were "created" (and they do reflect social changes during each puranic episode).

Anyways, i wud appreciate some inputs for this post 38 : http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/6446-why-mahabali-killed-4.html#post78761

Puranas were written because there were sponsors/Kings and there were poets who had to earn a living. They were written also with specific purposes.

1. To glorify the ruling King and his dynasty. Give him a fictitious genealogy.

2. For propagation of certain sects. Even interpolations were done for this.

Bhagavad Gita was interpolated in Mahabharata so that this excellent essence of Upanashidic truth would get a ready audience. Devi Mahatmyam was interpolated in Markandeya Purana to propagate Suddha Sakthism. A pure philosophical text like Bhagavd Gita or a pure Saktha text like Devi Mahatmyam would not attract as much audience like the epics and Puranas.

Marketing strategy of old. But then the poets were keen to propagate their works/ideas and not their own names. Great people.

I remember Konar guides in old Tamil Nadu.

Fiction is used to research the then prevailing social conditions. The novels of Dickens for example. But only if you can date it accurately. When you are not sure about the date of the works any conclusion based on such work would be pure speculation.

 

[sangom]

Even if the Puranas do not represent an iota of any actual event, yet there must be some reason why these puranas were written between 500 BC to 15th century AD. Most puranas were composed between 300 to 1000 AD and some were interpolated between 8th to 12 th century AD. All this does mean something. It shows how society was changing. Atleast we know that such stories were "created" (and they do reflect social changes during each puranic episode).

Anyways, i wud appreciate some inputs for this post 38 : http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/6446-why-mahabali-killed-4.html#post78761

HH,

Mahabali (MB) was not "killed"; he was simply kicked down to his empire which was "paataaLa" or the nether world, down below. Since you have read the book "The Civilized Demons - The Harappans in the Rigveda" by Malati Shendge, kindly refer pp.69 to 74 dealing with Vishnu of the Wide Steps. We may not agree with Mrs. Shendge's conclusions yet it is an eminent pov which appears very logical to me and also underscores all the deviousness of Vishnu and his incarnations.

 

[renuka]

Smt. Renuka,

Nature, I am told is even-handed. It replaces estrogen deficiency (PMS) also with high irritability and slight disorientation too perhaps . lol

Well said you understand hormones fairly well

Roses are Red
Viagra is Blue
If you have a problem
I can prescribe for you....

 

[happyhindu]

Puranas were written because there were sponsors/Kings and there were poets who had to earn a living. They were written also with specific purposes.

1. To glorify the ruling King and his dynasty. Give him a fictitious genealogy.

2. For propagation of certain sects. Even interpolations were done for this.

Bhagavad Gita was interpolated in Mahabharata so that this excellent essence of Upanashidic truth would get a ready audience. Devi Mahatmyam was interpolated in Markandeya Purana to propagate Suddha Sakthism. A pure philosophical text like Bhagavd Gita or a pure Saktha text like Devi Mahatmyam would not attract as much audience like the epics and Puranas.

Marketing strategy of old. But then the poets were keen to propagate their works/ideas and not their own names. Great people.

I remember Konar guides in old Tamil Nadu.

Fiction is used to research the then prevailing social conditions. The novels of Dickens for example. But only if you can date it accurately. When you are not sure about the date of the works any conclusion based on such work would be pure speculation.

I agree with your points.

However, interpolation and fictitious geneologies were not given to kings alone. They were created for 'brahmins' as well.

In post 38, i had touched upon how Vamana Purana story does not match with carvings depicting the 'same' story at mahabalipuram cave temples. Obviously the vamana purana could not have been commissioned (or written) by King Bali.

The dating varies, but none goes earlier than 300 AD and none go after 16th century. So the time period is between these dates.

It is too much of a coincidence that the puranas were written in the same time period when historically kshatropeta-brahmanas (so-called 'kshatriyas' claiming to be brahmins) waged wars.

The gotra system is based on the puranas. Matsya Purana has the list of brahmanical gotras. Here are some details. It is quite apparent that geneological descent was built not just for those who claimed to be 'kshatriyas' but also for those who claimed to be 'brahmins'. The “Indian Hisorical Review, Vol 29”, has dated various puranas after taking extensive research into account. It dates the Matsya Purana between 3rd to 4th century AD.

Now the question come up who were the scribes who composed these puranas and epics. Some say the scribes were the Kayasthas. Valmiki was a Nishada (boyas are nishadas). And so was Vedavyasa who compiled the Vedas (since Vyasa was the illegitimate child of Parashara and Satyavati (brahmin father + shudra mother = nishada)).

Kayasthas are said to be the 'writer's caste". Some books mention that anyone could become a Kayastha. They were in charge of writing and preserving knowledge. In current times, 'Nishada' is used as a 'gotra' name by Kayasthas. These are the same people which the Allahabad High Court ruled as Brahmins and Calcutta High Court ruled as Shudras in the colonial period.

Regards.

 

[Brahin]

If Vali would gain half the strength of his opponent, he was practically

invincible! More over his behavior similar to that of a wild animal,

justifies Rama's hunting him as any other wild animal in the forest.

Droupadi did not get Krishna's help as long as she was struggling with

her ahankaara and ego. Krishna rushed to her help only when she

stopped struggling and surrendered completely to Him.

The same thing with Gejendra. The tug of war between the elephant and

crocodile went on for a thousand years. Only when the elephant

surrendered completely and stopped struggling, God rushed to help him.

If the youngsters do not believe in Hinduism it is the fault of the elders

who are not able to convine them- as our forefathers convinced us!

So first we must learn the facts well and then try to impress the younger

generation!.

Have you noticed the increasing crowd of youngsters in any spiritual

discourse now a days. They lack people to guide them properly in this age

of chaos and confusion! But we are pouring fuel on fire!

No one can tarnish, diminish or deteriorate the greatness of Hinduism.

It had to stand up against the attacks from the other religions!

Now it has to face the onslaught of the insiders in addition to that from

the outsiders!! Two pronged attack-to put it in a nutshell!

I agree with u but u see in this forum also there r 1 or 2 people who wants to create chaos & confusion about hinduism neither they have faith in god nor they want others to have faith....they dont want to use there own brain which god has given them but they will believe on some altered story.

 

[Brahin]

Poem is too cute smt. renuka i am saving it & sending it to others also.

 

[renuka]

Poem is too cute smt. renuka i am saving it & sending it to others also.

Your posts are also tooooooooooooooo cute..you are a person of few words but you get the message across..

 

[gopaindu]

I have heard that Mahabali had conquer all the three worlds and was the ruler of all the three worlds. His greatness lies in giving without any forethought about future. This was not known to many in the three worlds. Through Vamana Avatara, this greatness has been brought to the fore(publicised) to be followed by others. He had absolute faith in God. Knowing fully well there lies a trap for him in giving three footsteps of land and if God himself comes to him and asks for Dana, assuming that there must be some reason for it, he acceded to the request of Vamana. Mahabali was neither killed nor punished but his greatness was there to see for anyone that one need not be afraid of him. Lastly, he could fulfil his promise of three footsteps of land as Vishnu had measured the entire world by his two feet. When he was asked for the place for the third footstep, he showed his head. When the foot was placed on his head, he had to reach the lower most world patala by the force of foot being placed on head. In fact, Mahabali was ashamed that he could not give the land for third footstep and hung his head shame. The whole episode was to publicise the greatness of Mahabali to the entire world and not to punish him. Had he not conqueered the three worlds i.e. Devaloka extending to Satyaloka, the abode of Brahma and lower worlds from patala to the earth. There may be some loopholes in my explanation. Lastly, it is difficult to understand one's belief and is also wrong to question it. If you are not convinced of anyone's belief about a particular story, incident or anything, the option is open to you to have your own belief.raja48

 

[gopaindu]

Why it should be assumed that the epics & puranas were scripted? Even if scripted how one can attribute ulterior motives for scripting such literature? What is the difficulty in assuming that these existed from time immemorial and the great rishis could grasp the same through their power attributable to penance? To add more, if you donot believe that epics and puranas existed from time immemorial, you keep your belief to yourself. In case, you are doubtful or curious to know of the two which is correct, you first read literature by indian authors and do not be carried away by what foreign authors who are oblivious of our culture, history, beliefs and notions. In case you believe that what foreign authors say is perfectly rationale believe it but do neither question or abuse of the beliefs of others. This is only my request. raja48

 

[gopaindu]

The posting by Madam Ramani is not a poen but is text only. It appears to be given left alignment but not the justified alignment. Notwithstanding, whatever she had conveyed by her and Brahin is aagreeable to me.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

I started this thread because I thought some of you would have this doubt which is experessed in the heading of the thread.

Of course I knew that this would come down to question of belief in the Epics and Puranas.

Only one member CLN understood the point that I had raised. Nara pointed out the consequences.

My conclusions are:

Epics and Purnas are interpreted in different ways. The so called orthodox Hindus interpret as literal truth. Then the caste researchers interpret many of the episodes as caste conflicts. Then the feminists look at from their point of view. They write Sitayana. Add to this the so called rationalists who quote the Epics and Puranas to substantiate their point of view.

The shocking truth is all these people believe that Epics and Puranas represent real and actual history. All their theories are based on that.

There are a few who consider the epics and Puranas as fiction and historical fiction at best. But then you do not get to hear their views because the Orthodox, the feminists, the rationalists and the like form a vast majority. They need it to be factual to justify their theories.

As an example now let us see see how the lepisode of Lakshmana and Surpanaka will be interpreted by these groups.

Orthodox: Lakshmana is an avatara of Adisesha. He can do no wrong. Meenakshi attacked Sita.

Feminists: This show the low esteem that women were held.

Caste researchers: Meenakshi was a Rakshasa. She was a tribal native to the soil. Lakshmana was a Kshatriya. This is an indication of how badly the tribals/indigenous people were treated.

Rationalists: Lakshmana is an Avatara of Adisesha. This indicates how Gods did ungodly things.

The problem is that if one becomes aware of the fact that the Epics and Puranas are fiction, the arguements of all these groups falls flat. Their reason for existence ceases to exist. Imagine the Rationalists of Tamil Nadu if the Tamil Brahmins accept that Ramayana is fiction.

Don Quixote needs wind mills.

Q.E.D

 

[kunjuppu]

nacchi,

in the version of ramayana, as told to me by my grandmother, surpanaka's breasts were cut off. i was about 6 that time and didn't think much of it. folks used to enjoy my narration of ramayana at get togethers and weddings, and i always included the cutting of breasts of surpanaka.

all this stopped in my pre teens.

sangom, the deaths of my maternal grand parents occurred in chennai. no special reading was done. we were inbetween tamilized and holding on to palghat traditions. so we practised neither

 

[Brahin]

Smt. Renuka,

To use your own phraseology (with difficulty, of course), "here you go again yaar... may be cos u go on croaking "Narayana Narayana" you take different and fresh avataars from a mahiśi, to maṇḍūka and then megalomaniac, hehehe."

I do not write any "learned Threads" or "Jnaana stuff" but only whatever little I know. It matters little (or is it two hoots?) who reads those or who does not. In any case if maṇḍūkamahiṣis do not read the posts so much the better.

Whereas the venom I spit makes you laugh (as per your own averment) your output makes me (and some others too, as seen from pms) cry; so which is better— the venom or the so-called nectar given out by you?

I am not changing your sex (here, wait a minute - you bring sex, not I) or granting you wife and kids; it is your own creation - read your post again carefully.

Who is/was getting mad, whose heart rate was going up and all, most of us here know and share the jokes too. But for FITWs it may not be within their accessibility. And the only esoteric messenger for them who used to give data inputs in dream sequences is gone... finally! The next life line which they prefer to clutch seems to be youtube video clips

Dear Sangom we dont need ur half gyaan here as u said u had little knowledge so half gyaan is sometimes more dangerous than snake venom .

 

[happyhindu]

I started this thread because I thought some of you would have this doubt which is experessed in the heading of the thread.

Of course I knew that this would come down to question of belief in the Epics and Puranas.

Only one member CLN understood the point that I had raised. Nara pointed out the consequences.

My conclusions are:

Epics and Purnas are interpreted in different ways. The so called orthodox Hindus interpret as literal truth. Then the caste researchers interpret many of the episodes as caste conflicts. Then the feminists look at from their point of view. They write Sitayana. Add to this the so called rationalists who quote the Epics and Puranas to substantiate their point of view.

The shocking truth is all these people believe that Epics and Puranas represent real and actual history. All their theories are based on that.

There are a few who consider the epics and Puranas as fiction and historical fiction at best. But then you do not get to hear their views because the Orthodox, the feminists, the rationalists and the like form a vast majority. They need it to be factual to justify their theories.

As an example now let us see see how the lepisode of Lakshmana and Surpanaka will be interpreted by these groups.

Orthodox: Lakshmana is an avatara of Adisesha. He can do no wrong. Meenakshi attacked Sita.

Feminists: This show the low esteem that women were held.

Caste researchers: Meenakshi was a Rakshasa. She was a tribal native to the soil. Lakshmana was a Kshatriya. This is an indication of how badly the tribals/indigenous people were treated.

Rationalists: Lakshmana is an Avatara of Adisesha. This indicates how Gods did ungodly things.

The problem is that if one becomes aware of the fact that the Epics and Puranas are fiction, the arguements of all these groups falls flat. Their reason for existence ceases to exist. Imagine the Rationalists of Tamil Nadu if the Tamil Brahmins accept that Ramayana is fiction.

Don Quixote needs wind mills.

Q.E.D

Sir, your post appears to be a repeat of post 55 perhaps by mistake. But anyways, if puranas and epics are works of fiction, it would mean that all talk of geneology, gotras, descent, is fictitious. And that the chatur-varna system is and was based on fictitious stories. Anyways, i do think that epics and puranas were "created / scripted / produced" by certain groups to promote themsleves in certain ways.

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear Sangom we dont need ur half gyaan here as u said u had little knowledge so half gyaan is sometimes more dangerous than snake venom .

hi brahin,

welcome to the forum. i would desist from commenting on sangom's 'gyan' if i were you.

one only has to read his extensive postings here to form an opinion. these postings speak for themselves. please do read sangom in his entirety and then comment. self effacement, sir, is a skillset, and not one to be mocked. i will stop here.

Poem is too cute smt. renuka i am saving it & sending it to others also.

renuka has copyrighted the poem. pls acknowledge authorship. thanks

 

[sangom]

In post 38, i had touched upon how Vamana Purana story does not match with carvings depicting the 'same' story at mahabalipuram cave temples. Obviously the vamana purana could not have been commissioned (or written) by King Bali.

The dating varies, but none goes earlier than 300 AD and none go after 16th century. So the time period is between these dates.

It is too much of a coincidence that the puranas were written in the same time period when historically kshatropeta-brahmanas (so-called 'kshatriyas' claiming to be brahmins) waged wars.

Why are we overlooking the point, endorsed by many scholars and researchers, that there was a phase of expansion of the vedic (Aryan) Hinduism? Is it not possible, for example in this case, that Mahabali was a king of a small territory coinciding somewhat with the present day Kerala, which was populated by alien-featured Nagas (Nairs) or some other tribes? Aryans who differentiated people on the basis of skin colour, flat nose, etc., could have made asuras out of them just as they did in their NW homelands long time ago (say one millennium).

The "charge" against Bali, viz., his desire for indra's post could have been one of getting assimilated into the Aryan four-caste society, where the said king whoever he might have been, would be looked upon as a very great and brave warrior, no less. The Aryan brahman, the puny fellow description is just to maximize effects by comparison IMO, went and asked for "three paces" (and this is a time-honoured tale linked to the early rigvedic Vishnu and somewhat inseparable, like A.Raja and 2G Spectrum, BHO and OBL, etc.). What might have happened, to my limited intelligence, is that this king was driven off from the higher reaches of the south-western ghats, and also from the slopes - thus Vishnu=Aryans - got the two areas (worlds) freed from asuras and that king was confined to the plains near the seashore. Is this not a feasible interpretation?

 

[sangom]

I started this thread because I thought some of you would have this doubt which is experessed in the heading of the thread.

Of course I knew that this would come down to question of belief in the Epics and Puranas.

Only one member CLN understood the point that I had raised. Nara pointed out the consequences.

My conclusions are:

Epics and Purnas are interpreted in different ways. The so called orthodox Hindus interpret as literal truth. Then the caste researchers interpret many of the episodes as caste conflicts. Then the feminists look at from their point of view. They write Sitayana. Add to this the so called rationalists who quote the Epics and Puranas to substantiate their point of view.

The shocking truth is all these people believe that Epics and Puranas represent real and actual history. All their theories are based on that.

There are a few who consider the epics and Puranas as fiction and historical fiction at best. But then you do not get to hear their views because the Orthodox, the feminists, the rationalists and the like form a vast majority. They need it to be factual to justify their theories.

A nice summary, pl.

As an example now let us see see how the lepisode of Lakshmana and Surpanaka will be interpreted by these groups.

Orthodox: Lakshmana is an avatara of Adisesha. He can do no wrong. Meenakshi attacked Sita.

Feminists: This show the low esteem that women were held.

Caste researchers: Meenakshi was a Rakshasa. She was a tribal native to the soil. Lakshmana was a Kshatriya. This is an indication of how badly the tribals/indigenous people were treated.

Rationalists: Lakshmana is an Avatara of Adisesha. This indicates how Gods did ungodly things.

The problem is that if one becomes aware of the fact that the Epics and Puranas are fiction, the arguements of all these groups falls flat. Their reason for existence ceases to exist. Imagine the Rationalists of Tamil Nadu if the Tamil Brahmins accept that Ramayana is fiction.

Don Quixote needs wind mills.

Q.E.D

Epics and Puranas IMO are not "pure" fiction; they are deliberately presented in such an ambiguous form so that if anyone questions their contents or bonafides logically, the escape route of "mere fiction" can be availed of; otherwise, for the gullible believers these epics and Puranas are very powerful narcotics in truth, neatly packed and labelled as chocolates so that even kids can safely eat these. I really admire the intellectual abilities of SD scribes