Reference post#126 by Raghy.
Dear Vaggmi,
I am not able to understand the reason for the constant debates/arguments based on caste feelings in this site. I am sure, there may be more persons wondering just as I do.To my understanding, the tamil brahmin community in the past lost to manipulative forces. They lost their prominence in Tamil Nadu. They are shunned away from government employment opportunities. Okay.
Your these opening statements are just on the spot. Just a small difference there between what you have understood and what I have understood. There was no prominence in Tamilnadu for Brahmins. They were either respected or treated just like any one else or like dust in the village depending on how rich they were. A poor Brahmin without any landholdings was just inconsequential in the midst of the middle caste hindus in the village. The denial of Government jobs to Brahmins was a serious issue upto a point in time. But Brahmins quickly learnt to live without Government jobs. Because they were quick to learn they were preferred in the British ruled India. But with peoples’ govt. in place quick learning of a different type is required and Brahmins are unable to come up to the expected efficiency levels in that. So the one half of a percent jobs that they may get after all reservations also goes past them. Now it is Brahmins who shun the Government jobs-even the IAS babu’s positions. I am here in India and I know what is happening here. When my daughter was ready for a job I thought she would take the Civil Services exam. But she was not keen about it as she was aware of what that job is about.
The Tamil brahmin community learnt to …………………I ended up a tradie. We just moved on. In my village, there was no discrimination in any of the brahmin houses even when I was a kid.
So, what is demanded from the present day brahmin community? I can't really understand the demand at all.
Brahmins do not discriminate. In my house when I lived in the village too there never was any discrimination. Of course every day we did not go about kissing every middle caste boy or girl walking on the street. We always kept our personal space which we keep even now. I am sure even the diehard arm chair intellectuals who wax eloquent here about the equality at birth would also meticulously maintain their private space inviolable. If they deny you can take it that it is just plain lie.
I noticed you are one person who replies tirelessly to everyone. I am clearly ignored by few persons here. That is okay. But I am not asking them since I don't want to be ignored.
so, dear Vaggmi, kindly spare some time to explain what is demanded from the Tamil Brahmin community? Why the present Tamil brahmin community is seen as villains by few of the posters in this forum? Is there any way to change such point of views? Although I can not say for sure I belong to Tamil Brahmin community, still I like to know, please. If you think I am just being nosy, that could be case too. I am really curios though. Thank you.
Now the final important point of your question. What is demanded from Brahmins? My understanding is this:
1)There is nothing special demanded from Brahmins by the countless NBs in Tamilnadu. They do not even know that you are a Brahmin if you walk in the street, work in an office, study in a school/college, eat in a hotel, travel in a bus/train/airplane, stand in a queue in a ration shop to buy your quota of sugar/wheat/rice/palm oil or whatever else, go and pee in pay and use toilet by the road side along with others, go and watch a movie in a theatre or do any such thing which a common does here as a part of his living. They just do not bother just as you just do not bother whether the others are Brahmins or NBs.
2)In his house which is his private space a Brahmin family lives in a particular way which is determined by its own value system and culture as you must be aware. There may be a family which is more orthodox in which the head of the family (HOF) may get up in the early morning and follow a certain strict regimen in his daily life. He may, for instance, take bath in the morning immediately after getting up and then only have his cup of coffee. He may do a pooja after that and then take breakfast before starting his work. After bath until his pooja is over he may not touch any one – this may include his wife, children, father and mother too. Now if this gentle man happens to deal with the milkman who brings him milk every morning, he will naturally keep his dealings without touching the milk man.
3)This Brahmin may be bringing up his children in a particular way with values and cultures of a Brahmin family. Like ahimsa, god fearing, respect for elders, respect for scriptures, love for humanity, humility, contentment etc., He would certainly want his children to live their peacefully after their marriage so that the tradition continues. So he chooses a Brahmin boy or girl as match for his daughter/son to celebrate the marriage. He believes that Brahmin community has some common values and culture. He banks on that truth and so is particular about marriage within the Brahmin community only. Some times he has come across Rakshasas among Brahmins and angels among NBs. But these are generally exceptions. Any way a marriage or a home is a personal space and it is his right to have his say in that and live in that as he (he alone) chooses to live. It is certainly not for others to tell him what he should do at his house or whom he should bring in there as a daughter in law or son in law.
Now if you have understood the point 1 above, you would know that nothing is really expected from Brahmins by the man on the street-the common man irrespective of whether he is a Brahmin or NB. But what about the repeated demands here in this forum-more abaout this later please read further.
But unfortunately the Tamil society is not allowed to remain this simple. Complications come when some people want to organize people in a political party to capture power. When they find that the simple method of a televised debate of economic and security issues (as it happens in other countries) is not helpful, they devise other methods to rally people. They sell the hatred opium liberally because that unites people against-this ‘against’ is the most important fulcrum on which every thing depends-an imaginary enemy. If the enemy is a small helpless identifiable community it is really very nice. Hitler devised this method to capture power and out Tamil politicians perfected it. So they make demands on Brahmins. They here means the handful of crooked individuals with a hidden political agenda. The demands are:
1. Brahmins are responsible for all the atrocities in the name of caste. Their ancestors created intellectual justification to the caste atrocities and practiced it too. So they should now regret it in the way we want them to do it.
2. Brahmins prevented the other communities from coming anywhere near the scriptures. If they had allowed others to learn them they all would have become Brahmins. So Brahmins should own the responsibility for this conspiracy and do atonement in the way we want them do it.
3.Brahmins are practicing exclusivity and untouchability. We would like to touch them freely. We feel insulted when Brahmins refuse to permit us to touch them or when they refuse to touch us. There is no difference between Brahmins and us. Our blood is red and their blood is red. We stand on our legs and they too stand on their legs only. We do bipedal locomotion and they do the same. So we are equal in every respect. Brahmins should accept this and do atonement in the way we want them do it.
Now if this leaves you wondering what exactly is the atonement, prayaschittam, expression of regret etc., are, then read further.
1. Brahmins should not complain loudly if we beat them. They should not complain if we send our goons to their area/houses and indulge in some mischief. This is one way of atonement.
2. They should not complain if we deny them the right to engage is any useful trade, business or employment as a matter of right. We will leave them some crumbs after we take every thing and they should be satisfied with it because that is one way of doing an atonement. We will not allow them to study in colleges or schools as a matter of right even if they have scored the best marks in exams.
3. They should agree in writing to teach us all the scriptures( it is another matter that we are least interested in learning the scriptures because they are useless for us) and make us the pujaris of all the temples in TN.
4. Finally this is the most important demand: Brahmins should give all their daughters in marriage only to our boys and not to any of Brahmin boys. If this demand is met we are ready to even give up all other demands.
Are you now wondering who are the people who are making such demands? Our friends in this forum who are all terribly worked up about Brahmin atrocities, Brahmin intellectual justifications, Brahmin arrogance and add what you want are the people I am talking about. You know who they are here in this forum. If you have still any doubt please check up who are the people who have already answered your question on my behalf. This has become a lengthy post. Please read it leisurely. I have saved my energy by being brief to my interlocuters. LOL
Thanks.
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one of them is வெட்டு புலி. if you google வெட்டு புலி reviews, you will see reviews by other bloggers too. what i was surprised was the intensity of venkat and his detractors. amazing how any topic gets diverted to the B/NB divide, isn't it?
