Nara said:
Those with more time on hand ......
I for one think that caste is one of the most important social issues facing Indian society. Discussions like these make all of us think and that, in and of itself, is a good thing. Sooner or later, everyone will face a situation that will have caste issue of some sort right at its center. How will you respond, how will you handle the situation? It is better to talk about it than put our heads in the sand.
Yes. Let us discuss.We have discussed this many times before. But it is a new beginning and let it be so.
To fully understand and appreciate the nuances of this issue, one has to remove oneself from his/her Brahmin identity and think. You can go back into your Brahmin identity later, but for a few moments, think of yourself as just a human being suddenly emerging out of thin air at various points of history and each time you are allowed the liberty to choose a particular varna. What would be your choice and why? There is no need to respond to this query, just find the answer for yourself, for nobody else -- and while you are at it, add gender also in your choice, i.e. what gender would you choose?
Okay. Noted. Let us proceed further.
It is claimed that all the (caste?) problems we face today is because Brahmins have abandoned their svadharma (and women are taking up professional jobs!).
Now can we be sure that only brahmins say this? I have come across a Panchayat president belonging to Thevar community(he happened to be my class mate when we studied in High School) saying "it is my fate that I have to stand up whenever this fellow(a dalit BDO) comes to this office though his father never dared to speak to me from a distance of 100 feet.(my Google translit has failed me. Otherwise it would be really something revealing to know what exactly he said in rustic Tamil of the South). So every one who is old and not so old is regreting that the developments are too fast, so fast that they are not able to cope with them. My point is that there is nothing special about brahmins ruing in the best way they can. What exactly is the problem here?
First, note that this statement implicitly concedes Brahmins are born. Leaving that aside, was there a time when they did not abandon their svadarma? Did Parasurama and Dronachariyar not take up dharma contrary to their Brahmana varna? Yet they are considered Brahmana! Are they just exceptions, or are they famous examples and for each of them there were thousands of day-to-day working stiff Brahmins who took up other dharmas even in those bygone glorious yugas?
This has been answered below by some one else correctly to the point. So I am not adding any thing.
[QUOTE/]Next, moving into Kali yuga, were there not many Brahmana imperial dynasties in the past? Obviously, these Brahmana kings did not follow their svadarma. In more recent times, it was Brahmanas who joined the British civil service in droves and took up servitude as their profession.[/QUOTE]
Between servitude and starvation death choosing the former is not a crime. It gives an opportunity to preserve the values close to your heart at least in a limited way. What is your objection? Brahmins moved effortlessly into an era where they had to give up their usual attire wear a suit and turban and go to office. When back in home they were back in their usual attire to attend to their daily routine. They did justice to both their calls and preserved their values.
So, it seems to me, that, the notion there was a time when Brahmanas strictly followed their svadarma is just fantasy.
It is for the concerned brahmins to decide how strictly they followed their swadharma and it does not lie with others to determine this.
Some are quite agitated when Brahminism is faulted for Varna/Jati system. Look at the Upanishad, they say, does it not say all jeevas are equal. (Well, Madwas don't think so, but let it be.) But, that is religious dogma, who knows whether there is indeed a jeeva or not. All jeevas are equal in a theoretical sense gives little comfort to the Dalit, to whom Brahminism says you are a panchama because of poorva janma karma and if you behave yourself in this life, you may be able to climb out of that varna in your next birth. All suffering is in this life - the only reality we can be sure of - and the promised benefits if any are to come after death. Who knows what is on the other side of death, if anything.
Now as per your suggestion in the beginning, I imagine my self to be a panchaman and ask this question to you.Upanishads,Madhvas,jeevas, brahminism,religious dogma are all very high sounding terms which you are using, sir. I know only this much that this is a thread in which something about castes is discussed. Now I address a question to you. I do not know all these high sounding terms though I am educated upto 10th class. But my life has been made miserable by the local community of Thevars who have taken away part of my land, denies me irrigation water from the tank, threaten me day in and day out that they will take away my wife and children and they use caste as the instrument to torment me. My caste is a minority and their caste is a majority in this village. The nearest police station has an Inspector who is again from the dominant caste. Do you have anything to say about this? Obviously you have nothing to say. You in your intellectual arrogance would prefer to discuss brahminism than casteism which is very much alive and kicking in the villages of tamilnadu. I have only one wish. If there is a rebirth, I should be born a Thevar.
The only stark reality of Brahminism to a Shudra/pancama is, his innate guna is sloth and ignorance and his raison d'etre is to serve the other three varnas.
This clever bracketing of Shudra with Panchaman is the trick originally invented by Periyar and used till date by intellectuals of Tamilnadu. There is nothing common between Shudras and Panchaman, period.
Then there is this protest -- some Brahmins fought against caste system and that should be recognized. Yes, the contributions of these individuals to a more just society must be appreciated, but there is no credit due to Brahmins or Brahminism. When someone criticizes caste identity and supremacy, he is acting against the caste system to which Brahmin identity belongs. To criticize caste and then claim credit for it along caste lines is absurd. Naicker caste cannot claim any credit for EVR's fight against casteism, and similarly, Brahmin caste cannot claim any credit for Bharathiyar's fight against casteism.
Brahmins do not expect any kudos or recognition for all the good they have done to the Tamil Community. But they would certainly expect that every one along with them should share the blame for the casteism. The singling out is atrocious and amounts to pulling the wool over the eyes of gullible public.
Some people here love to talk about DK, DMK and their cohorts and feel good about dissing them. These parties richly deserve derision -- IMO, for losing their revolutionary spirit.
You call this revolution. But many others call this opiate selling. The opiate called hatred. Hatred directed towards a micro minority.
But, what good does it do? Think about it, what good that is going to be? The issue is not whether DK/DMK are good or bad, why should you care, they don't. Brahmins saying oh these caste-NBs are so terrible, they massacre Dalits may make some here feel good about themselves. But, a Brahmin is a common foe for them all, Brahmins themselves have made this B/NB divide possible.
Brahmins do not look for any good from it. They just do not bother whether they are good or bad. But it is these outfits who do not allow them to live in peace and keep needling them. They want brahmins to metamorph into a new form which is designed by them. Brahmins talk about not NBs. But about the dominant castes. About the atrocities they heap on the hapless dalits just as on brahmins themselves.This is the problem.
There is Brahmin on one side, and all the rest are NB. DK or DMK did not do this, it is Brahmins who did this. Brahmins themselves unthinkingly practiced this binary separation. When DK/DMK pointed this out it immediately resonated among all NBs. If you are of certain age from Tamil Nadu, then you know this is true. Take a few moments and think why?
The divide was an artificial creation by the dominant castes in Tamilnadu. During the struggle for freedom there was no such divide because there was no merchant of hatred. Then came Periyar the father of hatred business. He was peeved by his inability to match the high qualities of the Congress leaders of that era and as any devilish mind would do created this divide meticulously. All NBs do not resonate with DMK/DK. Of late there is widespread division among them also. You have dalits going separate and vanniyars walking out. It is no more a monolith frankenstein creation of Periyar.
If Brahmins find a way out of the Varna/Jati ditch, they will be the primary beneficiaries. This may even inspire other groups to abandon this scourge and so much the better.
No. It is the Tamil Society which has ditch the casteism and march on. The first step in that direction would be to abandon the much abused slogans of brahminism, brahmin conspiracy,brahmin NB divide etc and accept that caste is an evil existing in the body politic of Tamils and it needs cure. The moment you talk about brahminism the entire energy is dissipated in hatred and games-playing. Every dominent caste is fortunately yet capable of looking inwards. It is silly to expect that only brahmins should adopt this reform path.
Victor Frankenstein did not take comfort in the fact it was not he who was committing all the murders. Victor felt remorse for creating the monster and devoted the rest of his life to destroying the monster. As Brahmins, think of what your responsibility is for the monster Brahminism has created. This can be done whether or not Caste-NBs are monsters.
I do not know much about Frankenstein. But I know about Doctor Faustus. The ghost of casteism is now demanding every thing from its friend and it wont be long before it eats away the friend also.
As you have been asking me questions repeatedly in other threads I though I got an opportunity to give a consolidated reply. Thank you for the opportunity.
Cheers!
