‘Porn sites root cause of all crimes’

[Vaagmi]

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Dear RR ji,

Porn excites even everyone both males and females and rape has nothing to do with education level..its just that the Modus Operandi in an uneducated person might be a brutal attack but the educated rapist might drug a female and rape her or even sexually harass a co worker rape her using threat or black mail.

The uneducated rapist might not think of covering his tracks and acts without thinking but the educated rapist knows how to cover his tracks well and also be a total smooth criminal leading a dual life of a highly placed man in society by day but rapist when the situation warrants.

1.The all consuming desire for sex is a primordial force in nature. There is nothing that can stop this urge from manifesting into a physical act whenever enabling circumstances exist. All living things go through this experience.

2.In nature when one among the two parties to the experience is reluctant or fiercely resisting the attempt of the other gender and if the other party insists, it becomes unnatural because then it becomes who is stronger. Many of the finer and beautiful aspects of the experience are lost when it is an act carried out despite resistance. It is this which is called rape.

3. In nature just as normal sexual union takes place after prolonged courtship, violent sexual acts too take place regularly. This has been happening from the beginning of the civilization and from the time of even cavemen.

4. Sex after a courtship with mutual consent as a desirable, noble, beautiful act has its roots in the evolution of human race in organized societies. Thus it became a good noble value for a human being. It became a guiding principle for adult behavior in evolved human societies. Then when such value also had its other advantages (like property inheritance, performance of rituals, ancestor worship etc.,) it got into the law books and societies implemented these laws enthusiastically. All along this path of the society rapes too were happening and rapists were condemned to live with guilt.

5. With info explosion we know almost every rape that is happening in the country these days and they make headlines. And we make a lot of noise about it over phone with friends, across the dinner table with family members, with the political bosses at election time etc., and then go to bed to get up and start another day while the rape victim has a shattered life to tend to.

So summing up:

1. For a civilized society rape is bad. Should be prevented by all means.

2. In the malleable, formative age, the exposure to porn should be severely restricted.

3. Girls should know that they have to reduce the opportunities to induce and excite the base feelings in the opposite sex by dressing modestly and by choosing the people and places where they spend times leisurely.

4. A rapist when caught and proved should be hanged mercilessly.

5. A rape victim should be protected from public gaze, should be given full benefit of privacy and anonymity (even in a court there should be no need for the victim to appear personally) so that the person can leaa a normal life after all the tumult,limelight and noise is over.

 

[vaithehi]

why my views are not displayed...i don't know?

 

[vaithehi]

This means people who can know how to escape even after committing crime can escape because of education, wealth and status ...whereas people who don't know the real cause of their spoiling are punished severely for the society which got degraded still supports as which nothing bad is happening..what a double standard and hypocrite this society has become because of western influence !!!:nono:

 

[renuka]

This means people who can know how to escape even after committing crime can escape because of education, wealth and status ...whereas people who don't know the real cause of their spoiling are punished severely for the society which got degraded still supports as which nothing bad is happening..what a double standard and hypocrite this society has become because of western influence !!!:nono:

Dear Vaithehi,

Why blame west for everything..till today not even one Porn Site of the west can ever match the Vatsyayana Purana...the range,flexibility and concerted muscle coordination portrayed in the Purana can make any Olympic Gold Medalist Gymnast hang his head in shame!

 

[renuka]

Answers in blue:

So summing up:

1. For a civilized society rape is bad. Should be prevented by all means.

Agreed but boys should be taught to never give in to any seduction by an underage girl especially if the boy is also underage cos the law only protects the female in cases of underage sex.

2. In the malleable, formative age, the exposure to porn should be severely restricted.

Agreed..leave porn for Maamas!


3. Girls should know that they have to reduce the opportunities to induce and excite the base feelings in the opposite sex by dressing modestly and by choosing the people and places where they spend times leisurely.

Agreed to a certain extent.

4. A rapist when caught and proved should be hanged mercilessly.

After it has been proved beyond doubt cos there might be some females who might cry rape when a consensual relationship goes wrong.

5. A rape victim should be protected from public gaze, should be given full benefit of privacy and anonymity (even in a court there should be no need for the victim to appear personally) so that the person can leaa a normal life after all the tumult,limelight and noise is over.

Agreed and she should not be character assassinated..even a sex worker should be given respect if she is a rape victim!

 

[Vaagmi]

But wasnt that the devadasi situation? Legalized prostitution sanctioned by religion?

Devadasis were a different group altogether though they are the most misunderstood and maligned group. And religion had nothing to do with legalizing or approving prostitution. Please read further:

You are a young man. You are quite intelligent. You are handsome and healthy. You have a fine taste for arts- poetry and music particularly. As in those old days marriages used to be fixed quite early in the life when the boy and girl are not past 7 years, you have a wife and a child already though you are hardly 25 years old. Your wife is not as accomplished as you are. She is not as intelligent as you are and has no taste for fine arts like music or poetry. She is just good and efficient in her own way and is happy about it. You too are happy with her and that is why you two make a nice pair. But the fine connoisseur in you yearns for a close someone with whom you can share those fine beautiful moments of ecstasy that comes when a difficult but fine raga is beautifully elaborated by an artist with that extra one or two mAtra of silence punctuating the flowing sweet voice, when you appreciate that one word in a poetry where the essence of all that the poet wants to say is packed in form, tone and brevity. If a female companion comes there in your life who fits that role perfectly, you become very close friends. These were the Devadasis of those days. A physical relationship may result because of shared moments of pleasure, laughter etc., and physical proximity and omnipotent hormones. Most of the Devadasis of yore were accomplished artistes in music, dance and were poets too. That is why they sang and danced in the temples and got the name Devadasi. It was not because they were all prostitutes and prostitution was given the stamp of approval by religion. And these Devadasis preferred intelligent, handsome connoisseurs for company in preference to just the bulls with money alone. Though the Devadasis fulfilled a major gap in the society they were much maligned. They ultimately ended up as the worst exploited lot in the society. Their story is a pathetic one. They and their masters are poor souls caught in an eternal dilemma.

 

[renuka]

This means people who can know how to escape even after committing crime can escape because of education, wealth and status ...whereas people who don't know the real cause of their spoiling are punished severely for the society which got degraded still supports as which nothing bad is happening..what a double standard and hypocrite this society has become because of western influence !!!:nono:

Dear Vaithehi,

Double standards are nothing new in life..for example a cheating husband or wife should be smart enough to cover their tracks so that they do not land in trouble...its survival thats all.

 

[renuka]

Devadasis were a different group altogether though they are the most misunderstood and maligned group. And religion had nothing to do with legalizing or approving prostitution. Please read further:

You are a young man. You are quite intelligent. You are handsome and healthy. You have a fine taste for arts- poetry and music particularly. As in those old days marriages used to be fixed quite early in the life when the boy and girl are not past 7 years, you have a wife and a child already though you are hardly 25 years old. Your wife is not as accomplished as you are. She is not as intelligent as you are and has no taste for fine arts like music or poetry. She is just good and efficient in her own way and is happy about it. You too are happy with her and that is why you two make a nice pair. But the fine connoisseur in you yearns for a close someone with whom you can share those fine beautiful moments of ecstasy that comes when a difficult but fine raga is beautifully elaborated by an artist with that extra one or two mAtra of silence punctuating the flowing sweet voice, when you appreciate that one word in a poetry where the essence of all that the poet wants to say is packed in form, tone and brevity. If a female companion comes there in your life who fits that role perfectly, you become very close friends. These were the Devadasis of those days. A physical relationship may result because of shared moments of pleasure, laughter etc., and physical proximity and omnipotent hormones. Most of the Devadasis of yore were accomplished artistes in music, dance and were poets too. That is why they sang and danced in the temples and got the name Devadasi. It was not because they were all prostitutes and prostitution was given the stamp of approval by religion. And these Devadasis preferred intelligent, handsome connoisseurs for company in preference to just the bulls with money alone. Though the Devadasis fulfilled a major gap in the society they were much maligned. They ultimately ended up as the worst exploited lot in the society. Their story is a pathetic one. They and their masters are poor souls caught in an eternal dilemma.

Its still very MCP 'ish!LOL Guys wants dumb wives but intelligent Chinna Veedus!

Its just excuses cos what about wives who felt that the wanted some intellectual stimulation by a male who shared her passion for arts,music and etc..where were the DevaDasas?

If there is a Sindhu Bhairavi for the male there has to be a Kala Bhairava for the female!LOL

 

[Vaagmi]

Its still very MCP 'ish!LOL Guys wants dumb wives but intelligent Chinna Veedus!

Its just excuses cos what about wives who felt that the wanted some intellectual stimulation by a male who shared her passion for arts,music and etc..where were the DevaDasas?

If there is a Sindhu Bhairavi for the male there has to be a Kala Bhairava for the female!LOL

I expected this. I am no MCP. I would prefer to be a loyal friend of a FCS. LOL. I agree fully with the sentiment expressed. I believe, these days at least in the upper levels and lower levels of the society such a freedom is available to the females too. Such Devidasas and Playboyveedus do exist. There is no ground for injured sentiments making a loud demand or suppressed curse. It is the middle class which is slow to change. It is extra cautious about changes and takes its own time to accept changes and internalize them. Just wait. Meanwhile a jai ho to stealthy playboy dolls and over possessive Devis playing with them. LOL.

A dumb wife is a given situation.
An intelligent Chinna Veedu is a smart acquisition. LOL.

 

[vaithehi]

How many people know vatsyayana before english came here translating everything in english and put as book...previously everything was hidden..they married early even before kama got into their mind...now after getting spoiled only everybody is marrying...i'm not blaming west...i'm only telling about the undeniable influence which it created in the eastern mind to support western standards..that too ridiculing our own people..who speak morality as elders or saint or saying they don't know how to use modern things as though all are made for good and healthy society

r.vaithehi---kindly don't delete or edit this post atleast...i don't know what sort of moderator are there who even delete moderate opinions...may not be i'm rich or modern ...but i have my right to express my views so that others can read and say whether i'm having the basic norm of culture

 

[renuka]

r.vaithehi---kindly don't delete or edit this post atleast...i don't know what sort of moderator are there who even delete moderate opinions...may not be i'm rich or modern ...but i have my right to express my views so that others can read and say whether i'm having the basic norm of culture

Dear Vaithehi,

Sometimes technical glitches do occur..so it might not be that moderator deleted your post.
We have a good moderator who does a good job here.

 

[renuka]

How many people know vatsyayana before english came here translating everything in english and put as book...previously everything was hidden..they married early even before kama got into their mind...now after getting spoiled only everybody is marrying...i'm not blaming west...i'm only telling about the undeniable influence which it created in the eastern mind to support western standards..that too ridiculing our own people..who speak morality as elders or saint or saying they don't know how to use modern things as though all are made for good and healthy society

Dear Vaithehi,

Kama(desire) is part and parcel of human nature.

When a person attains puberty hormonal play comes into the picture to prime the individual for continuation of species.

If the pleasure effect of Kama is not there there wont be a motivating factor for continuation of species.

Actually a healthy dose of Kama is nothing to be ashamed off..in fact it actually helps keep a marriage going.

Most of us Indians tend to want to deny that Kama is present between husband and wife even though religious text refer to love between husband and wife as Moha(infatuation).Kama and Moha go hand in hand.

Even in cases of people falling in love we Indians try to paint a picture of Deiviga Kadhal.

Why deny the truth? The truth is the hormonal cocktail in the human body is designed for continuation of species and a legitimate healthy dose of Kama is nothing to be ashamed of...only when Kama becomes an obsessive criminal act it becomes a problem.

BTW Kama isnt the only listed 'enemy' of humans..the Arishadvargas list the 6 Kama,Krodha,Moha,Lobha,Mada and Matsarya and does not say one is more dangerous than the other.

Therefore moderation in life is important..being sans Kama alone is not enough.

Norms of culture advocate being without the Arishadvargas(6 enemies of humans)...and its no easy task.

 

[krish44]

Dear Vaithehi,

Sometimes technical glitches do occur..so it might not be that moderator deleted your post.
We have a good moderator who does a good job here.

I too think so.highly unlikely this ladies post has been deleted by moderator. her views are very conservative and traditional ,unlikely to hurt any ones sensibilities. she can post again her views I think.I repost my outdated ideas so many times in different threads that many might be sick of reading them.some have said that I am outdated . others have accused me of expressing negative thoughts. this thread gives a wide latitude.thats what keeps me going.

 

[krish44]

Dear Vaithehi,

Kama(desire) is part and parcel of human nature.

When a person attains puberty hormonal play comes into the picture to prime the individual for continuation of species.

If the pleasure effect of Kama is not there there wont be a motivating factor for continuation of species.

Actually a healthy dose of Kama is nothing to be ashamed off..in fact it actually helps keep a marriage going.

Most of us Indians tend to want to deny that Kama is present between husband and wife even though religious text refer to love between husband and wife as Moha(infatuation).Kama and Moha go hand in hand.

Even in cases of people falling in love we Indians try to paint a picture of Deiviga Kadhal.

Why deny the truth? The truth is the hormonal cocktail in the human body is designed for continuation of species and a legitimate healthy dose of Kama is nothing to be ashamed of...only when Kama becomes an obsessive criminal act it becomes a problem.

BTW Kama isnt the only listed 'enemy' of humans..the Arishadvargas list the 6 Kama,Krodha,Moha,Lobha,Mada and Matsarya and does not say one is more dangerous than the other.

Therefore moderation in life is important..being sans Kama alone is not enough.

Norms of culture advocate being without the Arishadvargas(6 enemies of humans)...and its no easy task.

we project marriage as a holy union and procreation for ladies as dutyand the act of physical union as not necessrily pleasure giving.
if a person fed on such diet ,is given the idea that kama is pleasurable and nothing to be ashamed off ,it is difficult to accept.
one has to unlearn a lot to accept a different view point of this type ,however correct it is. kama is down played and duty is stressed so that such people do not suffer from guilt complex .

 

[renuka]

we project marriage as a holy union and procreation for ladies as dutyand the act of physical union as not necessrily pleasure giving.
if a person fed on such diet ,is given the idea that kama is pleasurable and nothing to be ashamed off ,it is difficult to accept.
one has to unlearn a lot to accept a different view point of this type ,however correct it is. kama is down played and duty is stressed so that such people do not suffer from guilt complex .

Dear Krish ji,


If women are supposed to do their duty without entertaining any thoughts of pleasure how do we place men in marriage? Entitled to pleasure?

The concept of marriage is a balanced one like an Ardhanarishwara where both male and female share all pains and pleasure in their journey called marriage.


A lot of self esteem problems arise in the Indian woman becos she is expected to be projected as the all sacrificing Goddess..when we glorify a person we actually fail to understand their needs.

So the best is to treat everyone as mere humans sans glorification so that any problem that arises can be solved and this prevents husband and wife from taking each other for granted.

That is how affairs start.... when spouses take each other for granted.

 

[vaithehi]

Dear Renukaji

Thanks for your update.i got a little annoyed because even though opinions differ..i still respect and give full value to others views..Many of the things i'm having very conservative or traditional opinion. Still i value many western values including free,logical and rational thinking, their boldness in approach, their execution speed...I think since you people are in the west , you know better than me their way of life and culture

As a responsible member of this forum, i apologise for the inconveniance caused because of my pro eastern opinion

 

[renuka]

Dear Renukaji

Thanks for your update.i got a little annoyed because even though opinions differ..i still respect and give full value to others views..Many of the things i'm having very conservative or traditional opinion. Still i value many western values including free,logical and rational thinking, their boldness in approach, their execution speed...I think since you people are in the west , you know better than me their way of life and culture

As a responsible member of this forum, i apologise for the inconveniance caused because of my pro eastern opinion

Dear Vaithehi,

I stay even more east than you.I hail from Malaysia.

Vaithehi..we are here to exchange opinions and ideas..we have very few active female members and I am very glad that you speak your mind here.
It nice to hear conservative views too cos norms and morals never go out of fashion.

As a person who is in my mid 40's and having seen life as a doctor..I have learned that human suffering can come in many forms and sometimes all that meets the eye is not what we really know about.

I have met people who have worked as sex workers and died of HIV but who had told me sob tales on how they were denied love in their life....so it hard not to see good in anyone.

That is the stance I take in life..to try to understand the varied human mind better.

You don't have to apologize Vaithehi..you have done no wrong..keep up your posts..we are all loving it.

regards

 

[rishikesan]

In 1930s & 1940s, in many villages, it was common for affluent brahmins ,to look for a Female in lower community, living close to the locality & some lady would always be ready to give company. The most obedient wives of these brahmins , who were not educated , would not openly object or prevent them. Such women would earn the good will of many in the family & ultimately treat the children born to the legal wife would also be treated as children of her own ?
One saying is like this :- a lady of poorer Brahmin family in the street, might not resist the move of the Zamindar/ well-to-do brahmin , & visit him stealthily & please him Sexually.===would tell her lady friend " Ivvalavu Peria manushan Kooppudum Podu ===Eppadi Marukkamudium/ Illai ena Solvadu?
One more thing In those periods people could not define the word RAPE. Many, many incidents of sex in villages in those days ,when no electricity was there & all went to bed shortly after dusk. Ofcourse all would have been relatives & well known to each other, having no will to say No or desist because Sexual urge is common & not condemned or analysed in depth with vendeta.
Rishikesan

 

[renuka]

One saying is like this :- a lady of poorer Brahmin family in the street, might not resist the move of the Zamindar/ well-to-do brahmin , & visit him stealthily & please him Sexually.===would tell her lady friend " Ivvalavu Peria manushan Kooppudum Podu ===Eppadi Marukkamudium/ Illai ena Solvadu?

Dear Sir,


I find this really hard to believe cos poverty need not translate as lack of self control for any community.

What is so hard to say no to even a King if he desires another's wife? For all you know the so called Peria Manushan forced himself on a poor lady knowing that she is helpless and no one would believe her and then shift the blame that the women did not resist him and wanted to please him.

This is all rape tactics to subjugate women from poor homes regardless of the community there are from.

 

[krish44]

Dear Krish ji,


If women are supposed to do their duty without entertaining any thoughts of pleasure how do we place men in marriage? Entitled to pleasure?

The concept of marriage is a balanced one like an Ardhanarishwara where both male and female share all pains and pleasure in their journey called marriage.


A lot of self esteem problems arise in the Indian woman becos she is expected to be projected as the all sacrificing Goddess..when we glorify a person we actually fail to understand their needs.

So the best is to treat everyone as mere humans sans glorification so that any problem that arises can be solved and this prevents husband and wife from taking each other for granted.

That is how affairs start.... when spouses take each other for granted.

renukaji
men fare no better as far as view of ladies as concerned . they are also taught that ladies to be goddesses to be put on a pedestal . hence many have problems to accept ladies as human beings having normal desires .it is a kind of conflict in their mind also. they also many times suffer due to guilt complex while enjoying a physical relationship that they are doing something wrong. how many of us got any education on sex in school or college or thru any other relation. we hit upon it thru porn books in older days and videos these days.so the issue is not gender specific and all go thru it to become mature adults in course of time.in most cases it is mostly left unsaid that kama is pleasurable and is to be enjoyed. affairs have nothing to do with all this . some have more physical needs than the others -it is not gender specific.

 

[renuka]

renukaji
men fare no better as far as view of ladies as concerned . they are also taught that ladies to be goddesses to be put on a pedestal . hence many have problems to accept ladies as human beings having normal desires .it is a kind of conflict in their mind also. they also many times suffer due to guilt complex while enjoying a physical relationship that they are doing something wrong. .

Its becos of this guilt complex some male finds it hard to have a meaningful sexual relationship with the woman they love and adore.

This is called the Madonna-- Whore Complex first identified by Sigmund Freud.

Taken from Wikipedia:

In psychoanalytic literature, a Madonna–whore complex is the inability to maintain sexual arousal within a committed, loving relationship.[SUP][1][/SUP] First identified bySigmund Freud, this psychological complex is said to develop in men who see women as either saintly Madonnas or debased prostitutes. Men with this complex desire a sexual partner who has been degraded (the whore) while they cannot desire the respected partner (the Madonna).[SUP][2][/SUP] Freud wrote: "Where such men love they have no desire and where they desire they cannot love."[SUP][3][/SUP] Clinical psychologist Uwe Hartmann, writing in 2009, stated that the complex "is still highly prevalent in today's patients".[SUP][[/SUP]

 

[krish44]

Its becos of this guilt complex some male finds it hard to have a meaningful sexual relationship with the woman they love and adore.

This is called the Madonna-- Whore Complex first identified by Sigmund Freud.

Taken from Wikipedia:

I stand educated . guruji

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Sir,
I find this really hard to believe cos poverty need not translate as lack of self control for any community.
What is so hard to say no to even a King if he desires another's wife? For all you know the so called Peria Manushan forced himself on a poor lady knowing that she is helpless and no one would believe her and then shift the blame that the women did not resist him and wanted to please him.
This is all rape tactics to subjugate women from poor homes regardless of the community there are from.

The stupid MCPs always have fancy ideas about a girl. They think they are all made of material that melts easily. They try to take the girl up the garden path to eventually ditch, and make an ass of themselves in the process. The girls are not fools. If a furtive look and a grin when found, resulted in a comment that "that asadu pallai ilikkirathu" those days, the girls these days understand very well a handshake that lingers on for just a trifle of a second longer than needed as unwanted warmth. Rape tactics are all well known . It is only when the circumstances are loaded against a girl that the girl becomes a prey. Dark streets, lonely travels, extreme financial dependence, overworking endocrine glands are such exacerbating circumstances.

 

[vaithehi]

My views are not reflect at all ..why?
rv

 

[renuka]

My views are not reflect at all ..why?
rv

Dear Vaithehi,

Is your post missing?

What exactly did you write? Could you please at least let us know the gist of it?