-
This forum contains old posts that have been closed. New threads and replies may not be made here. Please navigate to the relevant forum to create a new thread or post a reply.
-
Welcome to Tamil Brahmins forums.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our Free Brahmin Community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.
A conclusive Proof of Spiritual Energy. Call to forum members
- Thread starter sravna
- Start date
- Status
I do not know about the rains.
Posting of chennai members have stopped.
Will the rains stop so that members return to their favourite pastime
Last edited:
OP
OP
sravna
Well-known member
Dear Members,
It seems Chennai is actually limping back to normalcy. Rains have tapered and there been actually no rain today. I did not interfere with nature but if one believes in something and also believes it can be used for the good, I think one does not have to think twice about using it. Whatever may be the reason why rain stopped, at least Chennai has survived. Let us hope Chennai will see through the rains this season for good.
I will not be frequently posting till electricity returns.
It seems Chennai is actually limping back to normalcy. Rains have tapered and there been actually no rain today. I did not interfere with nature but if one believes in something and also believes it can be used for the good, I think one does not have to think twice about using it. Whatever may be the reason why rain stopped, at least Chennai has survived. Let us hope Chennai will see through the rains this season for good.
I will not be frequently posting till electricity returns.
renuka
Well-known member
Dear Sravna,
Glad to know you are safe and fine.
Its in times like this we realize:
1)Spiritual power does not really exist cos we are still dependent on electricity for even typing in forum.
2)Spiritual power can't stop forces of nature.
3)Spiritual power can't produce food and clean drinking water.
4)Spiritual power can't reach out to victims of the flood..only the armed forces with boats and helicopters can reach out to the victims.
5)Spiritual power can't prevent the spread of communicable diseases during a flood.
6)Spiritual power can't make a plane take off in a flooded air port.
7)Spiritual power can't help repair the financial damage to property of flood victims..its sad to see so many autos just submerged in water..these belong to poor people who might not have the money to repair their vehicles.
This list can go on and on that spritual power can NOT do anything in the time of actual need.
Last edited:
Janaki Jambunathan
Active member
Dear Renu
This is dragged from my posting#155 Chennai rains
I am not rationalising the Miracle of Varhar Then the pardox "Rationally Irrational" comes into play - I am an one eyed Jack in this situation!
How do you see my situation?
How do you see my situation?
OP
OP
sravna
Well-known member
Dear Renuka,
Thank you. The physical world as far as possible runs on logic. Only when exceptional events happen spiritual intervention happens. Any way I am glad that the rain has stopped and hopefully we should see no more rain this year.
sangom
0
Dear Shri Sravna,
One cannot be very sure that the low pressure trough (so called, now) will not become a small cyclone. Chennai and the northern districts may once again be subjected to heavy rains, although all of us will desire that the rains stop completely and the next phase, viz., outbreak of contagious diseases, does not impact too severely.
All such super-human forces, which also run on logic, like everything else in this physical world, as you say, are caused by Karma, the collective and cumulative karma of a large group of people, according to my belief. People are experiencing the results of a combination of bad actions, both by the governments in TN and the avaricious people who thronged to buy flats, homes, etc., when the real estate was seen as a booming and highly profitable thing.
What is to be thought of is the possibility of recurrence of such pralayas in the future and actions by both people and the TN government to correct all the mistakes of the past. All drainage routes/canals in the city should be cleaned and renewed***, all the water bodies should be cleared of all constructions made illegally over the dried lakes, water bodies, etc., should be razed to the ground. If such corrective steps are not urgently taken, The result may be a very hot and dry year followed by yet another pralayam thereafter. Nature is very merciless when it reacts to Man's plunder of nature.
*** In Trivandrum one such project is under way and a hundred years' old drainage system (then completed by Sir. C.P. Ramaswamy Iyer, Diwan of Travancore) for the low lying areas of the city, is being rebuilt by demolishing all structures built above that drainage canal in this one century. But due to political corruption and other insidious factors, the project does not appear to be progressing properly, according to plan.
tks
0
Sri Sravana,
Glad to know you and your family are safe. Chennai like all other places will recover over time.
I normally do not read or engage in discussion in such topics but it was nice to see you were able to get online and respond. I hope the power gets restored and stable quickly. I heard that are places which are submerged in 6 feet of water. Hope the damages are managed.
Let me share some thoughts on this topic having read some parts of the thread.
People have the right to believe in whatever they want. In my view, no one should look up to or look down on anyone for their personal beliefs provided their beliefs do not cause harm to anyone.
There is no basis for any 'spiritual power' and magic based on either science as we know it or in the proper understanding of the Upanishads. There may be stories of godmen creating things out of thin air or even claim responsibility of curing people. All these have no basis and often proved to be wrong.
The cure of some people (like reversal of a life threatening disease) has happened out of their personal belief for some but assigning to any spiritual power of another is not justified. No one can 'predict' the future with certainty. The Karma model of our scriptures is most misunderstood and abused but it is all a belief system only. The model has some supporting logic and has no direct logic.
Much of beliefs embedded in vedas (e.g., do this ritual for this action or Vedic astrology, or existence of heaven or hell ) are beliefs only. There has been no conclusive proofs of any of these things and the knowledge sections of the same Vedas (Vedanta) do not reject these beliefs but negate them completely.
There is not multiple worlds (like spiritual world, physical world etc) except in mythology.
I know the above words will not mean much in the context of your personal beliefs.
Please continue with your beliefs but be open to two thoughts for your own well being.
1. If you think there is a cause effect relation it should be proved using statistical methods which has strong basis when done correctly. It is how drugs are tested if the exact mechanism for cure are not understood. Even if the mechanism is understood there is still a need for statistical validation as to what harm a new drug can create. If you subscribe to this approach you will find that your beliefs will not have a basis. It is expensive to conduct such a trial and therefore you will never be able to convince anyone except other people already subscribing to such beliefs.
2. It is possible to go overboard thinking that one has some magical powers and it can affect one's well being whereby one is unable to tell the difference between the reality of the world we live in and mental world which you think you are living.
Hope Chennai recovers and hope the engineers plan to withstand such calamities in the future,
OP
OP
sravna
Well-known member
Dear Shri Sangom, Shri TKS
I think I have projected the impression that I want to prove my possession of spiritual power. It is really not the case. Even if no one believes in that it is ok with me. But I do know it is real. I experience it and have seen it working in others also. But as Shri TKS says if I need to convince others I need to conduct a study in a methodical way. Actually I plan to do it as it helps others in realizing what I have realized which is there is a spiritual reality.
Shri TKS thanks for your kind words. It seems to me that Chennai has seen through the rains and is well on the way to recovery. Electricity was just restored in my area and I am sure in other areas as well and you should see Chennai members start posting soon.
I think I have projected the impression that I want to prove my possession of spiritual power. It is really not the case. Even if no one believes in that it is ok with me. But I do know it is real. I experience it and have seen it working in others also. But as Shri TKS says if I need to convince others I need to conduct a study in a methodical way. Actually I plan to do it as it helps others in realizing what I have realized which is there is a spiritual reality.
Shri TKS thanks for your kind words. It seems to me that Chennai has seen through the rains and is well on the way to recovery. Electricity was just restored in my area and I am sure in other areas as well and you should see Chennai members start posting soon.
Janaki Jambunathan
Active member
Proof of pudding is in eating! who takes the pudding - Met Department or Spritual energy?
OP
OP
sravna
Well-known member
Dear Smt.JJ,
I am not trying to prove the met department wrong.They most likely have made the correct prediction. My objective was to see if the unnatural causes of the rain could be set right. As you say proof of pudding is in eating. My assessment is that the rain been largely in control despite forecast of heavy rains for the last 3 days.
Janaki Jambunathan
Active member
1) Looks Slippery வழவழ கொகொழ They had hit the Bulls Eye Right Give the devil its due!
2) Largely in control despite forecast for the last 3days !! Please switch on your TV see realities! Can you wish away realities ?
Janaki Jambunathan
Active member
I prefer not to live in a Fools pardise where people donot believe what they see - but see only what they belive !
OP
OP
sravna
Well-known member
In general, If you want to trust your eyes more than your brain, it is your choice.
Janaki Jambunathan
Active member
There is nothing vague or genral in science! Optic Lobe of brain is the visual processing centre Both open eyes and optic centre or lobe are essential for visual perception! But belief does not require an open eye - you can belive with closed eyes as well! The choice is yours !
OP
OP
sravna
Well-known member
So you trust what the brain does? Why not repose complete faith in it.
Janaki Jambunathan
Active member
India needs to be less superstitious, more rational: Nobel laureate
It is not an accident that modern scientific methods developed in western Europe and as a result it propelled industrial revolution and modern medicine, and these countries, including the U.S., which adapted similar values, advanced dramatically in the last 200 years. But other societies were stuck where they were because they did not incorporate scientific beliefs’, he said
Cautioning against belief systems not based on scientific evidence, Dr Venkataraman cited alternative medicines such as homoeopathy as being without basis in the understanding of chemistry or biology
http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/india-needs-to-be-less-su​​perstitious-more-rational-nobel-laureate/article7979256.ece.
It is not an accident that modern scientific methods developed in western Europe and as a result it propelled industrial revolution and modern medicine, and these countries, including the U.S., which adapted similar values, advanced dramatically in the last 200 years. But other societies were stuck where they were because they did not incorporate scientific beliefs’, he said
Cautioning against belief systems not based on scientific evidence, Dr Venkataraman cited alternative medicines such as homoeopathy as being without basis in the understanding of chemistry or biology
http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/india-needs-to-be-less-su​​perstitious-more-rational-nobel-laureate/article7979256.ece.
prasad1
Active member
I agree with Dr Venkataraman's article fully.
He failed to point out that even in allopathic medicine there is a faith involved. You have to have the faith in the doctor and their prescription. Ultimately the patient has to have faith that they are going to get better. So there is faith involved.
You are not going to be cured by a allopathic medicine doctor who has forged qualification, uses spurious medicine or a butcher. So trust and faith is needed, in addition to knowledge.
Like my doctor says "doctors do not know everything, they are human too." Then each human being reacts to to the same treatment differently. So medicine is still by trial and error. Medicine is not like mathematics.
Attn: Sravna
Guess you may be interested in this article:
[h=2]Relaxation response proves positive[/h] [h=3]Study reveals how mind-body medicine could cut health care costs[/h] October 13, 2015 | Editor's Pick Popular
By Sue McGreevey, Massachusetts General Hospital Public Affairs
Email Twitter Facebook
Relaxation-response techniques, such as meditation, yoga, and prayer, could reduce the need for health care services by 43 percent, according to a study at Harvard-affiliated Massachusetts General Hospital (MGH) that looked at participants in a relaxation-response-focused training program.
Previous studies have shown that eliciting the relaxation response — a physiologic state of deep rest — not only relieves stress and anxiety, but also affects physiologic factors such as blood pressure, heart rate, and oxygen consumption.
The paper’s authors noted that stress-related illnesses, such as anxiety and depression, are the third-highest causes of health expenditures in the United States after heart disease and cancer (which also are affected by stress).
The study, based at MGH’s Institute for Technology Assessment and the Benson-Henry Institute (BHI) for Mind Body Medicine, found that individuals in the relaxation-response program used fewer health care services in the year after their participation than in the preceding year.
The report was published Tuesday in the open-access journal PLOS ONE.
“Our study’s primary finding is that programs that train patients to elicit the relaxation response — specifically those taught at the BHI — can also dramatically reduce health care utilization,” said James E. Stahl of the MGH Institute for Technology Assessment, who led the study. “These programs promote wellness and, in our environment of constrained health care resources, could potentially ease the burden on our health delivery systems at minimal cost and at no real risk.” Previously affiliated with the Benson-Henry Institute, Stahl is now based at Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center.
View all posts in Science & Health
Explore:
[h=3]Eight weeks to a better brain[/h] By Sue McGreevey, MGH Communications | January 21, 2011 | Editor's Pick Popular
>
The relaxation response was first described more than 40 years ago by Harvard Medical School Professor Herbert Benson, founder and director emeritus of the BHI and a co-author of the current study. The physiologic opposite of the well-documented fight-or-flight response, the relaxation response is elicited by practices including meditation, deep breathing, and prayer, and has been shown to be helpful in the treatment of stress-related disorders ranging from anxiety to hypertension.
To analyze the potential impact of mind-body interventions like the relaxation response on use of health care services, the researchers examined information available through the Research Patient Data Registry (RPDR) of Partners HealthCare. The research team gathered data on individuals participating in the BHI Relaxation Response Resiliency Program (3RP) from 2006 to 2014. The program combined elicitation of the relaxation response with social support, cognitive-skills training, and positive psychology designed to build resiliency.
Data regarding more than 4,400 3RP participants’ use of Partners system services in the years before and after their participation was compared with information from a demographically matched control group of almost 13,150 Partners patients over a similar two-year period. To address the possibility that 3RP participants had been more frequent users of health services in the year before their participation, the researchers also compared a subgroup of almost 1,200 3RP participants that excluded those with the highest pre-participation utilization levels with a subgroup of 222 controls whose initial healthcare utilization exactly matched those of the 3RP participants in the first of the two studied years.
Based on the number of health care encounters in the studied period, which included interactions in any setting — imaging studies, lab tests, and procedures — the 3RP participants had an average reduction of 43 percent in their use of health care services in the year after their participation.
The control group had an overall, but not statistically significant, increase in service utilization in the second year. The utilization-matched 3RP subgroup had a reduction of around 25 percent across all clinical services. Clinical areas in which 3RP participation was associated with the greatest reduction in service utilization were neurologic, cardiovascular, musculoskeletal, and gastrointestinal. The investigators estimate that the price of participating in programs like 3RP would be made up in costs savings in four to six months or less.
Stahl noted that the results of this investigation need to be validated by a prospective study that would also explore where and when best to use mind-body interventions like the Benson-Henry Relaxation Response Resiliency Program.
“I think of it this way: There are many gates to wellness, but not everyone is ready to walk through a particular gate at a given time. From a public health perspective, it is better to be prepared to offer these tools to people in their customary settings than to wait for them to seek out these interventions. For that reason, we feel that mind-body interventions — which are both low-cost and essentially risk-free — should perhaps be incorporated into regular preventive care.”
Benson added, “From the outset, our primary goal has been to enhance the health and well-being of people by counteracting the harmful effects of stress and alleviating the many diseases that are caused or exacerbated by stress. The challenge now is to disseminate these findings, which we feel will be of great interest to health care payors [such as insurance companies] and policy makers.”
Benson is the Mind Body Professor of Medicine at Harvard Medical School, and Stahl is an associate professor of Medicine at the Geisel School of Medicine at Dartmouth-Hitchcock.
Additional co-authors of the PLOS ONE paper were Michelle Dossett, John Denninger, Darshan Mehta, Roberta Goldman, and Gregory Fricchione of the Benson-Henry Institute; and Scott LaJoie of the University of Louisville.
“Mind-Body Medicine: New Science and Best Practices to Meet Public Health Challenges” will take place Nov. 5-8 at Harvard Medical School’s Joseph Martin Conference Center. The conference features Herbert Benson and Jon Kabat-Zinn, who will explore the scope, current status, and future of mind-body medicine as part of conventional health care protocol.
Guess you may be interested in this article:
[h=2]Relaxation response proves positive[/h] [h=3]Study reveals how mind-body medicine could cut health care costs[/h] October 13, 2015 | Editor's Pick Popular
By Sue McGreevey, Massachusetts General Hospital Public Affairs
Email Twitter Facebook
Relaxation-response techniques, such as meditation, yoga, and prayer, could reduce the need for health care services by 43 percent, according to a study at Harvard-affiliated Massachusetts General Hospital (MGH) that looked at participants in a relaxation-response-focused training program.
Previous studies have shown that eliciting the relaxation response — a physiologic state of deep rest — not only relieves stress and anxiety, but also affects physiologic factors such as blood pressure, heart rate, and oxygen consumption.
The paper’s authors noted that stress-related illnesses, such as anxiety and depression, are the third-highest causes of health expenditures in the United States after heart disease and cancer (which also are affected by stress).
The study, based at MGH’s Institute for Technology Assessment and the Benson-Henry Institute (BHI) for Mind Body Medicine, found that individuals in the relaxation-response program used fewer health care services in the year after their participation than in the preceding year.
The report was published Tuesday in the open-access journal PLOS ONE.
“Our study’s primary finding is that programs that train patients to elicit the relaxation response — specifically those taught at the BHI — can also dramatically reduce health care utilization,” said James E. Stahl of the MGH Institute for Technology Assessment, who led the study. “These programs promote wellness and, in our environment of constrained health care resources, could potentially ease the burden on our health delivery systems at minimal cost and at no real risk.” Previously affiliated with the Benson-Henry Institute, Stahl is now based at Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center.
View all posts in Science & Health
Explore:
[h=3]Eight weeks to a better brain[/h] By Sue McGreevey, MGH Communications | January 21, 2011 | Editor's Pick Popular
>
The relaxation response was first described more than 40 years ago by Harvard Medical School Professor Herbert Benson, founder and director emeritus of the BHI and a co-author of the current study. The physiologic opposite of the well-documented fight-or-flight response, the relaxation response is elicited by practices including meditation, deep breathing, and prayer, and has been shown to be helpful in the treatment of stress-related disorders ranging from anxiety to hypertension.
To analyze the potential impact of mind-body interventions like the relaxation response on use of health care services, the researchers examined information available through the Research Patient Data Registry (RPDR) of Partners HealthCare. The research team gathered data on individuals participating in the BHI Relaxation Response Resiliency Program (3RP) from 2006 to 2014. The program combined elicitation of the relaxation response with social support, cognitive-skills training, and positive psychology designed to build resiliency.
Data regarding more than 4,400 3RP participants’ use of Partners system services in the years before and after their participation was compared with information from a demographically matched control group of almost 13,150 Partners patients over a similar two-year period. To address the possibility that 3RP participants had been more frequent users of health services in the year before their participation, the researchers also compared a subgroup of almost 1,200 3RP participants that excluded those with the highest pre-participation utilization levels with a subgroup of 222 controls whose initial healthcare utilization exactly matched those of the 3RP participants in the first of the two studied years.
Based on the number of health care encounters in the studied period, which included interactions in any setting — imaging studies, lab tests, and procedures — the 3RP participants had an average reduction of 43 percent in their use of health care services in the year after their participation.
The control group had an overall, but not statistically significant, increase in service utilization in the second year. The utilization-matched 3RP subgroup had a reduction of around 25 percent across all clinical services. Clinical areas in which 3RP participation was associated with the greatest reduction in service utilization were neurologic, cardiovascular, musculoskeletal, and gastrointestinal. The investigators estimate that the price of participating in programs like 3RP would be made up in costs savings in four to six months or less.
Stahl noted that the results of this investigation need to be validated by a prospective study that would also explore where and when best to use mind-body interventions like the Benson-Henry Relaxation Response Resiliency Program.
“I think of it this way: There are many gates to wellness, but not everyone is ready to walk through a particular gate at a given time. From a public health perspective, it is better to be prepared to offer these tools to people in their customary settings than to wait for them to seek out these interventions. For that reason, we feel that mind-body interventions — which are both low-cost and essentially risk-free — should perhaps be incorporated into regular preventive care.”
Benson added, “From the outset, our primary goal has been to enhance the health and well-being of people by counteracting the harmful effects of stress and alleviating the many diseases that are caused or exacerbated by stress. The challenge now is to disseminate these findings, which we feel will be of great interest to health care payors [such as insurance companies] and policy makers.”
Benson is the Mind Body Professor of Medicine at Harvard Medical School, and Stahl is an associate professor of Medicine at the Geisel School of Medicine at Dartmouth-Hitchcock.
Additional co-authors of the PLOS ONE paper were Michelle Dossett, John Denninger, Darshan Mehta, Roberta Goldman, and Gregory Fricchione of the Benson-Henry Institute; and Scott LaJoie of the University of Louisville.
“Mind-Body Medicine: New Science and Best Practices to Meet Public Health Challenges” will take place Nov. 5-8 at Harvard Medical School’s Joseph Martin Conference Center. The conference features Herbert Benson and Jon Kabat-Zinn, who will explore the scope, current status, and future of mind-body medicine as part of conventional health care protocol.
sangom
0
You are quite right, shri sravna! We all suffer, still, from the colonial hangover disease.
Janaki Jambunathan
Active member
Meet on mind-body medicine today
​The conference is to be addressed by Padmashri G. Bakthavatsalam, chairman, KG Hospitals, Coimbatore, Dr. Ashok R. Mehta, consultant cancer surgeon, Dr. Girish D. Patel, consultant from Mumbai, Dr. Usha Kiran from AIIMS, New Delhi, and Dr. Avdesh Sharma, psychiatrist from New Delhi.Close to 1,200 medical professionals from southern districts have registered, and several associations and corporate hospitalsare attending.
http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Madurai/meet-on-mindbody-medicine-today/article7982343.ece?ref=tpnews
He said in the last 100 years, life expectancy has doubled because of medicines based on science and lots of diseased have been eradicated.
Though medicine is based on evidence-based science, it may not be perfect but it evolves and discards anything based on new discovery or understanding, and this is the characteristic of modern medicine based on science, said Dr Ramakrishnan.
Pointing out that many scientists, including Nobel Laureates, had erred, Dr Ramakrishna said it was because they tried to propagate ideas that were outside their areas of expertise.
​The conference is to be addressed by Padmashri G. Bakthavatsalam, chairman, KG Hospitals, Coimbatore, Dr. Ashok R. Mehta, consultant cancer surgeon, Dr. Girish D. Patel, consultant from Mumbai, Dr. Usha Kiran from AIIMS, New Delhi, and Dr. Avdesh Sharma, psychiatrist from New Delhi.Close to 1,200 medical professionals from southern districts have registered, and several associations and corporate hospitalsare attending.
http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Madurai/meet-on-mindbody-medicine-today/article7982343.ece?ref=tpnews
He said in the last 100 years, life expectancy has doubled because of medicines based on science and lots of diseased have been eradicated.
Though medicine is based on evidence-based science, it may not be perfect but it evolves and discards anything based on new discovery or understanding, and this is the characteristic of modern medicine based on science, said Dr Ramakrishnan.
Pointing out that many scientists, including Nobel Laureates, had erred, Dr Ramakrishna said it was because they tried to propagate ideas that were outside their areas of expertise.
Last edited:
Janaki Jambunathan
Active member
- Status
Share this page
Share this page
Latest ads
-
Free [Bride Wanted] Bride WantedLooking for Bride - Family Oriented and brought up from Cultured Family
- SRIKANT S -(Bride Wanted) (+0 /0 /-0)
- Updated:
- Expires
-
-
Free [Bride Wanted] TAMIL BRAHMIN VADAMA BRIDE WANTEDMust to be willing to relocate to Bengaluru Must be willing to accommodate joint family
- self today (+0 /0 /-0)
- Updated:
- Expires
-
Wanted [Cook Wanted] Wanted cook for Home at Gandhipuram Coimbatore. Decent Salary offeredHi, we need a female Brahmin cook for home ( 5 members family) at Coimbatore. Morning and...
- gchitra (+0 /0 /-0)
- Updated:
-
Wanted [Cook Wanted] Vegetarian tamil cookBangalore Bannerghatta Main road
- nschander (+0 /0 /-0)
- Updated:
- Expires