A layman reads Rig Veda

[vikrama]

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39 Svadha

In nature, we see another interesting phenomenon. It is self-sustaining. Clouds shower rain on the earth. It causes rivers to flow down to the sea. Sea-water evaporates and forms cloud. Thus a perfect cycle is established. No one can introduce water from outside the planet nor can one remove it out of the world. Living beings are born on earth. They grow and die. New generations take their places. Life continues. We find the natural ability of the universal forces to adjust themselves to the changing situations. Such a self-sustaining cycle is seen everywhere. This is called svadha, etymologically, svadha = sva+ dhaस्व+ धा= self sustaining.

In most places Sayana takes it to mean the sacrificial food, receiver of the food, giver of the food, rain, amrtam, enjoyments etc. which never fit into the context. He even bends the grammar to suit his interpretation. Only very rarely he gives its real meaning, ‘by itself’ or ‘by its own force’.

Let us see an example. RV 1.33.11 ‘अनु-स्वधाम्- अक्षरन्- आप:’ The straight meaning is rivers flowed by themselves (according to their natural course). The previous mantra speaks of Indra milking the clouds. So it makes sense to take that the rainwater ran in their natural course. Sayana interprets ‘svadha’ as food and says that the rivers flowed for giving food to Indra. The name of Indra is not at all mentioned in the mantra quoted, nor is there any word for ‘giving’ nor is there necessity to drag them forcibly. He also fails to give due recognition to the word ‘anu’ meaning ‘according to’.

10,129.5 speaks of the beginning of the creation and says that then ‘there were shedders of seed, there were mighty ones, svadha below and energy up yonder’.

Svadha was not created by God. It has existed with God. All devas are called svadhavan. The splendour of the dawns, the Asvins showing the path of the sun, the fighting of the Maruts are all due to svadha.

While devas protect the people with their might, there are the rakshasas who use their might to torment the people. Devas have been fighting them for billions of years and could not wipe them out totally. Because rakshasas are also part of the order of the universe. They can not be totally annihilated. They are destroyed by the devas only to crop up again. So it said that Rakshasas have ‘svadha’. Tormenting the people is their svadha (nature).

Those who destroy the simple folks, as per their svadha, and with their evil natures harm the righteous, may Soma give them over to the serpent, or to the lap of Nirrti. 7.104.9

When it is said that Indra baffled the magics of the rakshasas with his svadha, it only means that with his natural strength, he destroyed them.

The fathers, cremated or not cremated, joy with svadha (by their nature) in the midst of heaven. 10.15.14

To Agni, sang forth the flowing streams of rtam, encompassed in the home and birth-place of the god. He, when he dwelt extended in the waters' lap, drank the svadha for which he is adored. 1.144.2

Rtam is tha law of nature. When people follow it, it is called vrata. When its world-sustaining quality is thought of, it is called dharma. When its adjusting capacity is looked into, it is called svadha.

 

[vikrama]

40 Pitrus and rtam

Our forefathers knew rtam well. They are addressed as rtajna (knower of rtam), rtavan (possessed of rtam), rtavrdha (strengthening rtam). They taught their descendants their knowledge about rtam.

I from my Father have received deep knowledge of rtam. 8.6.10 says a rishi.

Rishis and rtam
The rishis and the priests followed rtam and were benefited.

The sages guard the seat of rtam, and keep the highest names concealed within them. 10.5.2.

ALLIED with you in friendship, Indra, these, your priests, remembering rtam, rent Vrtra limb from limb, 10.138.1

When the first-born of rtam (first contact with rtam) approached me, then of this hymn I first obtained a portion. 1.164.37

Devas and rtam
All devas are said to be born of rtam. They know rtam well and follow it. They are the friends and protectors of rtam. Like a charioteer, they lead the rtam, praise it, worship it and enjoin the men to follow it. They prepare the path of rtam for the people to follow. In these places rtam means the natural order or eternal law or dharma.

When Veda says that devas are to be adored by people with rtam, there the word means worship/ sacrifice.

Indra is the mightiest of Vedic gods. He has performed many great deeds. But he could accomplish them only with the help of rtam.

Indra shone and caused to shine the worlds that shone not. By rtam, he lighted up the host of Mornings. He moves with steeds yoked by rtam, contenting men with nave that finds the sunlight. 6.39.4

Craving the kine, rushing against the mountain led on by thoughts of rtam, harnessed with horses of rtam, He broke the never-broken ridge of Vala. 6.39.2

This food glows for Indra as of old at sacrifice, wherein they made him the chooser of the place , for he chose the place of rtam. 1.132.3

They have become the strongest of the Heroes; With mighty strength, by rtam made Vrtra's slayers. 6.68.2

Though all the devas protect rtam, Varuna, Mitra and Aryaman have a special role in it. Of the three, Varuna is most important. They establish rtam and guard it. They punish those who violate rtam.

All falsehood, Mitra-Varuna! you conquer, and associate us with rtam. 1,152.1

Although Mitra, Varuna and Aryaman administer rtam, they are not above rtam. They are born of rtam and the source of their strength is rtam. Every movement in the universe is controlled by Varuna and his companions.

Aryaman, Varuna and Mitra, are the chastisers of all anrtas (falsehood). These, Aditi's Sons, infallible and mighty, have waxen in the home of rtam. 7.60.5

VARUNA cut a pathway out for Surya, and led the watery floods of rivers onward. Like the mares in a race speed on, he divided the great night from the days, following rtam. 7.87.1

Varuna knows the path of birds that fly through heaven and the ships that are thereon.1.25.7

 

[vikrama]

41 The Almighty

Rtam is the Almighty

In RV, only devas are worshipped. An Almighty God, as we understand today, is not explicitly mentioned. Terms like Ishvara, Bhagavan, Mahadeva, Devadeva are not found in RV. It is the rtam which reigns supreme. It generates the devas. Devas are worshipped because they protect the rtam. Thus rtam occupies the foremost place and it is this concept that evolved into the concept of an almighty god.

It is the rtam that created Varuna who administers rtam. Hence Varuna was held in high respect in RV. Even today, in all vedic rituals, Varuna is invoked and is given a special place. The following mantra which is recited at the beginning of all vedic rituals, is a vestige of the lofty place Varuna held earlier.

ध्रुवम् ते राजा वरुण: ध्रुवम् देव: बृहस्पति: ध्रुवम् ते इन्द्र: च अग्नि: च राष्ट्रम् धारयताम् ध्रुवम् RV_10,173.5

 

[sargurusiva]

Garudalwar is known as Vedaswaroopi,

 

[vikrama]

42 Satyam and rtam

Satyam tva rtena parishincami – This mantra is used before we begin to eat. This is the same mantra used when food is offered to God. In the night the same mantra is given in a reverse order. Rtam tva satyena parishincami.

What does it mean? O Satyam, I drench you with rtam/ O rtam, I drench you with satyam.
What is satyam and what is rtam?

The dictionaries say that they are synonymous. If they are, what does it mean to drench it with itself?

In other places, rtam is followed by satyam. For e.g.

rtam vadishyami satyam vadishyami.
rtam avadisham satyam avadisham.
rtam satyam param brahma.

They follow one another. So they are not identical. But they are closely related. This is confirmed by the following mantras also.

Pure Maruts, the observers of rtam, came to satyam by rtam. 7.56.12
Arduous prayers have given birth to satyam and rtam. 10.190.1

Rtam is the law of nature. What is satyam? This is derived from ‘sat’, which means that which exists. The Tamil equivalent of exists is இருக்கிறது, உள்ளது. While the former Tamil word has past and future tense forms, the later word dos not have anything at all. From this is derived the Tamil word உண்மை the word for truth. It shows that truth exists for ever and it recognises no past, present or future. The scriptures say that satyam is kalatraya abadhyam- unaffected by the three time divisions, past present and future. What exists forever is satyam. So it refers to the One Absolute Almighty God.

The upanishadic statement ‘satyameva jayate’ is translated as ‘truth will triumph’, in the future tense. In fact the word ‘jayate’ is in the present tense form indicating all the three tenses. In all the time periods its victory is certain. So it refers to the Almighty.

O Surya, the Brahmans know your two wheels duly: One kept concealed, which only the sages know. 10.85.16

While rtam refers to the orderliness of the creation and its functioning, the word satyam refers to that which exists as the background for this creation and its functioning. It just exists. It does not do anything else.

In upanishads, the active part of the brahma is called saguna brahma and the inert part is called the nirguna brahman.

The puranas say that the energy that causes the function of the universe is called Sakti and that which remains inactive, self-absorbed is called Siva.

Only through rtam one can know the satyam. This concept developed in vaishnavism to the thory that one can obtain the grace of Narayana openly through the recommendation of the mother, Lakshmi.

Though these two qualities of the almighty are differently spoken of, they are inseparable. This is spoken as Sakthi and Siva joined in one body.

Here ends the third chapter and there are 5 more chapters to write. But due to the absence of feedback, I am not certain how many people visit this page. So I wind up my soliloquy with this.

 

[vsubbu48]

Dear Sri Vikrama,

Not many people in this forum are well versed with the vedas. So like a diligent student, they may be following what is written by you. The website shows that there are more than 2000 views of your posts meaning members do read your posts. So do not lose heart but continue.

 

[vikrama]

Dear Sir,
Thank you for your kind words of encouragement. The number 2000 is an illusion. It includes visits by search engines. If human beings had read the contents, at least one of them would have appreciated it or criticized it or clicked the like button. I am waiting for those people.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

Dear Sir,
Thank you for your kind words of encouragement. The number 2000 is an illusion. It includes visits by search engines. If human beings had read the contents, at least one of them would have appreciated it or criticized it or clicked the like button. I am waiting for those people.

Dear Vikrama,

I apologize for not providing feedback earlier before your requesting it.

I find your posts in this thread very useful and interesting to read. Please consider continuing the series from where you let off, preferably at the same or even lesser pace, so that it gives the readers enough time to understand and grasp the contents and also cross reference, compare and contrast against existing literature.

Thank you.

 

[vikrama]

Thank you Sri Kalabhairavan,
Now that I am assured of at least two readers who are interested and who see the need for feedback, I shall continue, as you have suggested at a slower pace.

 

[vikrama]

43 Indra-1
Indra is the chief of devas. He brought glory to all the devas by his achievements. He is the friend of people on earth. He wards off their troubles and leads them to safety. He is the enemy of the enemy of men. He is very powerful. By his might, he destroyed many mighty enemies and helped his devotees.
Who is the enemy of mankind? RV speaks of a group of people called Dasa/ Dasyu. They are described as noseless and having black colour. They do not believe in the gods which the Aryas worshipped. They do not perform yagnas. They are adept in magics. So Indra also employed magic. He imprisoned many of them in caves. The dasas who had thought that they were immortal were destroyed and the Aryans got back their light.
The above description of dasas led the western historians to invent a theory of Aryan- Dravidian conflict. Let us see the truth of it.
While the rishis who composed the mantras styled themselves as Aryas, they nowhere mentioned Dravidas. The latter word is not found in Sangha literature also. It made its first appearance only in a Tamil work of 8[SUP]th[/SUP] century A.D.
To link a literature of unknown date and a word of several thousand years later is the mischief of the western historians.
That there were some enemies of Aryans is undeniable. There were water disputes between the Aryas and the Dasyus, just as we see today between Tamilnadu and Karnataka. It is said that the Aryans got back water after killing Dasyus indicates this.
That the dasyus were noseless is unbelievable and should not be taken literally. Perhaps they had a flat nose as the Mongols have. There is a strong possibility of the mountain kingdoms inhabited by mongolian people blocking the water flowing downwards.
The dasyus are described as born of black. Black and darkness always denote ignorance and foolishness in the vedas. Vedas always praise light and censure darkness. Devas are described as having luminous bodies and the aim of human life is described as attaining the light of the heaven. So those people who do not subscribe to this concept of gods were naturally dubbed as born of black- Krishnayoni.

 

[vikrama]

44 Indra-2
Here, a major difference between Rakshasa and dasyu is to be noted. While the names of many dasyus are mentioned, no name of Rakshasa has been mentioned in RV. While Rakshasa obstructs yagnas, the dasyus do not interfere in the worship of the Aryas. Of course they had a different kind of worship and concept of god. But they did not harm the Aryans’ religious life. While the dasyu is contrasted with Arya, no such contrast has been made in the case of Rakshasa. It is said that the Rakshasas live everywhere. They come from anywhere, from far or near, from all directions. The dasyus have a specific location. They lived in fortified cities, perhaps, mountainous regions.
From the above it seems the word Rakshasa refers to human mental weaknesses which hamper his spiritual progress. But dasyus were men, real men. They were defeated and some of them were enslaved. That the slaves worked well is known from a mantra which says that I will work hard like a dasa to reach the god. They were traded also. A rishi says that he received 100 dasas from a king as a gift. There were times when dasyus and aryas lived amicably. To a wealthy donor, both aryas and dasas flock. A dasa king makes a gift to a rishi who praises his benefactor.
Now let us see some of the dasyus annihilated by Indra.
Vrtra was a powerful enemy. He took the form of a huge snake and blocked the waters flowing downwards. Indra with his associates, the Maruts, killed Vrtra and released the waters and made the people happy. This anecdote is quite frequently mentioned.
Later on, the word Vrtra ceased to be a proper noun and became a synonym of enemy. Thus Agni and other gods are said to have destroyed vrtra. There is a plural form of this word, vrtrani. Devas are prayed to destroy one’s vrtrani.
Vala is another dasyu, who impounded the cows. The rishis, Angirases, discovered the place with the help of a bitch named Sarama, and informed Indra, who promptly obliged them. He succeeded in releasing the cows and became the object of eulogy of not only Angirases but all later rishis also.
Sambara was another dasyu, with whom Indra fought for 40 years and destroyed his 100 forts.
Rouhina was another who tried to ascend to the heaven without following the usual methods of the Aryans. He was destroyed by Indra.

 

[vikrama]

45 Indra-3
Without Indra, no victory. So both sides in a battle invoke him. This statement indicates that even among the Indra-worshipping aryas, there were battles.
People of the upper strata and those of the lower both invoke him for help and Indra obliges all. When two men travel in a chariot, they individually invoke him. Indra helps only those who approach him with reverence. he does not help those who are arrogant of their might. He does not help the sinners and the non-worshipppers of devas.
Indra has the capacity to grab the wealth of the enemies like a falcon. He can shake the strongest. He has in himself all the bravery. By the sound of his vajra, heaven and earth are said to tremble. Neither heaven nor earth can overcome him. Neither oceans nor mountains can obstruct the passage of his chariot. No one has escaped the attack of his vajra.
Here is a list of the enemies killed by Indra. Vrtra, Visvarupa, Arbuda, Vala, Zambara, Rauhina, Narmara, Drbika, Urana, Svazna, suSna, Pipru, Namuci, Rudrika, Varcin, Cumuri, Dhuni, Krivi, Kuyava and Sandikas.
List of friends helped by Indra- trta, angiras, dabhIti, turvIti, vayya, etaza, kutsa, Ayu, atithigva.
Indra is the repository of wealth. He is quite often called maghavan, meaning opulent. He is very liberal in lavishing wealth to those who want it from him. He recognises even the smallest of service done to him and rewards him. He does not distinguish between the rich and poor among his devotees. He encourages all- those who perform yagna, who effuse soma juice, who praise him with prayers. He has a large numbe of horses, chariots, cows, villages. He distributes them all to his devotees.
He is strengthened by prayers. To those who praise him, who effuse soma, who cook havis for him, he grants wealth, progeny, home, might, protection. Those who praise him become strong.

 

[renuka]

43 Indra-1
Indra is the chief of devas. He brought glory to all the devas by his achievements. He is the friend of people on earth. He wards off their troubles and leads them to safety. He is the enemy of the enemy of men. He is very powerful. By his might, he destroyed many mighty enemies and helped his devotees.
Who is the enemy of mankind? RV speaks of a group of people called Dasa/ Dasyu. They are described as noseless and having black colour. They do not believe in the gods which the Aryas worshipped. They do not perform yagnas. They are adept in magics. So Indra also employed magic. He imprisoned many of them in caves. The dasas who had thought that they were immortal were destroyed and the Aryans got back their light.
The above description of dasas led the western historians to invent a theory of Aryan- Dravidian conflict. Let us see the truth of it.
While the rishis who composed the mantras styled themselves as Aryas, they nowhere mentioned Dravidas. The latter word is not found in Sangha literature also. It made its first appearance only in a Tamil work of 8[SUP]th[/SUP] century A.D.
To link a literature of unknown date and a word of several thousand years later is the mischief of the western historians.
That there were some enemies of Aryans is undeniable. There were water disputes between the Aryas and the Dasyus, just as we see today between Tamilnadu and Karnataka. It is said that the Aryans got back water after killing Dasyus indicates this.
That the dasyus were noseless is unbelievable and should not be taken literally. Perhaps they had a flat nose as the Mongols have. There is a strong possibility of the mountain kingdoms inhabited by mongolian people blocking the water flowing downwards.
The dasyus are described as born of black. Black and darkness always denote ignorance and foolishness in the vedas. Vedas always praise light and censure darkness. Devas are described as having luminous bodies and the aim of human life is described as attaining the light of the heaven. So those people who do not subscribe to this concept of gods were naturally dubbed as born of black- Krishnayoni.

Dear Sir,

Besides being Anasa..they were supposed to be Apada too.

Apada is footless..does not make sense isn't it?

One may say that Anasa means snub nose but what have we got to say for footless?

Can any race be actually without feet? How did they move about and fought with so called Aryans if they did not have feet.

If we look at the development and evolution of the human race..we can note that the early man Neanderthal has broad foreheads..prominent jaw and a snub nose.

So the snub nose as in Anasa could be referring to this.

Now coming to the Dasyus being black/dark etc..Darkness/Black denotes Tamas cos an uncivilized person who is still evolving has not yet gain perfect knowledge of wisdom hence for all practical purposes Ignorant a.k.a Tamas denoted by the color black.

Next is Apada..footless..a person who has yet to attain knowledge and civilization has no no firm footing yet in life hence footless.

Once a person gets evolved from Neanderthal to modern man..the nose acquires a better defined shape and not as snub as in the Neanderthal type anymore.

Then when modern man acquires knowledge he is no more Tamas...no more black/dark of ignorance.

Finally when he becomes civilized and refined he has a strong footing in society and no more Apada(footless) and become the Noble One (Arya).

So for all we know this so called Dasyu and Arya theory could be just talking about the evolution of mankind.

These are just my unproven thoughts.

 

[vikrama]

Dear madam,
I have not yet come across with 'Apada' in RV.
Yes, there is apada in another context. There is a riddle like saying. The footless woman goes before the footed. Sayana explains it- Ushas, the dawn goes before the footed creatures stir up for the day.
Regarding 'anasa' and Krishnayoni I agree with you.

 

[weblogic]

Dear Renuka madam,

Your observation on evolution and the vedic description seems very logical.

Dear Sir,

Besides being Anasa..they were supposed to be Apada too.

Apada is footless..does not make sense isn't it?

One may say that Anasa means snub nose but what have we got to say for footless?

Can any race be actually without feet? How did they move about and fought with so called Aryans if they did not have feet.

If we look at the development and evolution of the human race..we can note that the early man Neanderthal has broad foreheads..prominent jaw and a snub nose.

So the snub nose as in Anasa could be referring to this.

Now coming to the Dasyus being black/dark etc..Darkness/Black denotes Tamas cos an uncivilized person who is still evolving has not yet gain perfect knowledge of wisdom hence for all practical purposes Ignorant a.k.a Tamas denoted by the color black.

Next is Apada..footless..a person who has yet to attain knowledge and civilization has no no firm footing yet in life hence footless.

Once a person gets evolved from Neanderthal to modern man..the nose acquires a better defined shape and not as snub as in the Neanderthal type anymore.

Then when modern man acquires knowledge he is no more Tamas...no more black/dark of ignorance.

Finally when he becomes civilized and refined he has a strong footing in society and no more Apada(footless) and become the Noble One (Arya).

So for all we know this so called Dasyu and Arya theory could be just talking about the evolution of mankind.

These are just my unproven thoughts.

Shri Vikrama Thanks for the time and effort brought in to providing a valuable insight for this opputunity where one can learn and also understand various viewpoints.
Thanks all!

 

[vikrama]

46 Indra-4
Soma pleases Indra. He is strengthened by it. He is said to have quaffed it even when he was just born. He has performed many heroic deeds in the exhilaration of soma.
He killed Ahi and released the impounded waters. He pounded the rocks and killed Vala. He made a path for the rivers. He rescued DabhIti. His friends TurvIti and Vayya could not cross a flooded river and Indra blocked the river enabling them to cross and find treasure. He released certain abducted and concealed women. He brought to light an outcast man. He made a blind man see and a lame walk. He sent the dasyus cumuri and dhuni to eternal sleep.
The rishis talk of Indra as a friend. “You are ours. We are your devotees. Come to our yajna before going to that of others.

 

[renuka]

Dear Vikrama Ji,

Could you also put the Sanskrit text in Devanagari?

So that one can compare and contrast the words and improve vocabulary too besides becoming familiar with some amount of Vedic Grammar.

 

[vikrama]

Dear madam,
I will try to quote the Vedic text in padpatha format in my future posts.

 

[vikrama]

47 Indra - 5
We saw that Indra performed many great deeds. As we have seen earlier, Indra attained devatvam by virtue of these deeds and he was originally a man. His deeds are not normal human ones but can be done only by extra-ordinary people.

Indra is said to have killed a snake and released the waters. This looks like a childish story. Veda means knowledge/ wisdom and if it contains such childish stories the name Veda becomes irrelevant. So there should be some other meaning behind the story.

Landslip is a common occurrence in mountainous regions. Sometimes the displaced earth falls on the course of a river and blocks the waters or diverts its course. One such occurred in China (Ven Zuan region) on 12[SUP]th[/SUP] May 2008. This blocked a river and made it a lake. The downside of the river became dry. The level in the lake was rising and there was the danger of its opening a new course and flooding places on other sides, including India. The Chinese Government immediately sent its engineers and bombarded the lake at the proper place which resulted in restoring the course of the river.

The action of Indra could have been similar. The word vrtra means that which encompasses and could denote the blockage. Vrtra is said to taken the shape of a snake. The blockage, forming a boundary of the impounded waters. could have been circular. Indra with his friends demolished the blockage and made the rivers flow on their usual course.

Similarly, in the story of killing Vala to rescue the cows, a landslip could have blocked the passage to the cow-pen of Angirases. With the help of a sniffer dog named Sarama, they found the exact location of the cows and with Indra’s help rescued them. Perhaps Indra had an army who specialised in earth-moving.

 

[vikrama]

48 Indra- 6
Thus the achievements of Indra were such that can be done by extra-ordinary humans. We also find that RV makes Indra the Almighty God. This trend is found with reference to other gods also.
Indra created the sun, the dawn, earth, Agni etc. The sun and the dawn move as directed by him. An immature calf grows into a cow and begins to yield milk- this is due to Indra’s orders. The rivers keep running day and night because of Indra.
Thus Indra is made the Almighty God. We will see that Agni is also credited with that honour. Other devas are also described as Almighty. So we conclude that the Vedic rishis made the man ascend to the post of a deva and then finally every god becomes Almighty.
* * *
Here ends the topic 'Indra'. I will be back with the next topic after a break.

 

[vikrama]

49 Agni-1 – beauty of metaphors
Aurobindo Ghosh says that in the Vedic hymns on Agni, poetry is at its best. The resplendence of Agni, as it were, has gone into the hymns on him.
The Vedic rishis enjoyed every bit of this worldly life. They found joy in each and every object they saw and every sound they heard. They viewed life just like a child does. The child is not bored at seeing a familiar thing like the little ant repeatedly and wondering at it. This child - like sense of wonder is perceptible throughout the hymns of Rig Veda.
While they observed the nature like a child, they expressed their observations as an experienced poet endowed with a fertile imagination. In the subsequent posts we will see some of the Vedic hymns where these two are harmonized.
---
The flames of Agni always go up. Rishi wonders, “How is it that he is always rising up? He never falls, though he has no support or binding.”
अनायत: | अनि-बद्ध: | कथा | अयम् | न्यङ् | उत्तान: | अव | पद्यते । न | RV_4,13.5
Fire spreads feeding on its fuel very easily over a long distance. Rishi says that he has an easiest- rolling car and asks him to bring the devas in it.
अग्ने | सुख-तमे | रथे | देवान् | ईळित: | आ | वह | असि | होता | मनु:-हित: RV_1,13.4
One lamp lights so many lamps. Thus Agni produces himself from his own body. So Rishi calls him tanunapat –तनूनपात् son of his own body.
Imagine a period before the advent of electricity. When the sun sets in the evening, we light up a lamp with Agni. Darkness is dispelled. Such a common place occurrence becomes a fine poetry in the words of the Rishi, “Spreading thy web with mightiest horses you come, rending apart the black-hued mantle. The rays of Surya, tremulously shining, sink the darkness in the waters.”
वहिष्टेभि: | वि-हरन् | यासि | तन्तुम् | अव-व्ययन् | असितम् | देव | वस्म | दविध्वत: | रश्मय: | सूर्यस्य | चर्म-इव | अव | अधु: | तम: | अप्सु | अन्तः RV_4,13.4

We have specific places for Agni, like our hearths, homa kundam etc. We do not allow it to go beyond these places. The Rishi fondly calls Agni as one who grows in his own home.
Ruler of sacrifices, guard of Law eternal, radiant One, Increasing in your own abode.
राजन्तम् | अध्वराणाम् | गोपाम् | ऋतस्य | दीदिविम् | वर्धमानम् | स्वे | दमे RV_1,1.8
Wind blows from hot places to cold ones. Water flows from higher level to lower level. Is there any definite path or principle for the fire to move? No. It moves in all directions. His face looks in all directions. Agni is also called four-eyed. चतुरक्षः
O you, whose face looks every way, bear us past foes as in a ship. May his light chase our sin away.
द्विष: | न: | विश्वत:-मुख | अति | नावा इव | पारय | अप | न: | शोशुचत् | अघम् RV_1,97.7
(Incidentally, this is part of the mantras uttered while going round a corpse just before cremation.)

 

[renuka]

The flames of Agni always go up. Rishi wonders, “How is it that he is always rising up? He never falls, though he has no support or binding.”

Dear Vikrama ji,

What does the Vedas have to say about the fact that Fire actually has a support..that is Fire is supported by Wind.
In fact Fire is also called Marut Sakha(the friend of wind)..so technically Agni has to co exists and be supported by Vayu isn't it?


In order for combustion to take place oxygen is needed..so I wonder why here it is stated that "though he has no support"
or may be this verse was written when man was just starting to wonder about fire and had not found out yet that oxygen is needed for combustion hence the word "Rishi wonders"

 

[vikrama]

Dear Vikrama ji,

What does the Vedas have to say about the fact that Fire actually has a support..that is Fire is supported by Wind.
In fact Fire is also called Marut Sakha(the friend of wind)..so technically Agni has to co exists and be supported by Vayu isn't it?


In order for combustion to take place oxygen is needed..so I wonder why here it is stated that "though he has no support"
or may be this verse was written when man was just starting to wonder about fire and had not found out yet that oxygen is needed for combustion hence the word "Rishi wonders"

Dear Srimati Renuka,
One need not mingle the present day scientific knowledge with the content of the Vedas. Swami Dayanand tried to read, ludicrously, modern scientific concepts like aeroplanes, water dividing into h2o and so on.
The rishis looked around them with their pristine innocence or primitive ignorance, wondered at certain things and made their observations into poems.

Nowhere is it said in RV that air is essential for burning. The word Marutsakha occurs six times in RV, out of which it refers to Indra 4 times, refers to Sarasvati once and to Agni once.

The flames going up excite the rishi as they would a child and he wonders what could prop them up straight.

 

[renuka]

Nowhere is it said in RV that air is essential for burning. The word Marutsakha occurs six times in RV, out of which it refers to Indra 4 times, refers to Sarasvati once and to Agni once.

Dear Sir,

In what context was the Marutsakha used?

Cos Marutsakha is sometimes used as in Marutsakhabha...meaning "having the effulgence of fire"

Marutsakha=Fire(Friend of wind)

Bha= effulgence


Anyway since the word Marutsakha has appeared in Vedas for Agni shows that "Wind being the Friend of Fire" fact was acknowledged.

I feel the ancient rishis knew what they were talking about..so their "innocence" is a learned experience otherwise they would not have been called seers.

Anyway Indra being called Marutsakha is explained as the following:

The Maruts as wind gods are powers of lightning, which in Vedic as in most ancient thought was considered to be a serpent or a dragon. The Maruts are the good serpents, shining bright like serpents (RV I.171.2). The Maruts help Indra in slaying Vritra and are his main friends and companions.

Saraswati being called Marutsakha:

The Maruts are typically called Sudanavas, good to give or good (Su) Danus (RV I.85.10; I.172.1-3; II.34.8; V.41.16; V.52.5; V.53.6; VI.66.5; VIII.20.18, 23). Similarly, the Vishvedevas or universal gods are called Sudanavas (RV VIII.83.6, 8, 9), as are the Adityas (RV VIII.67.16), the Ashvins (RV I.117.10, 24) and Vishnu (RV VIII.24.12). The term also occurs in a hymn to Sarasavati (RV VII.96.4), where Sarasvati is called the friend or companion of the Maruts (Marutsakha; RV 96.2). Most importantly, there is a Goddess called Sudanu Devi (RV V.41.18), which is probably another name for the mother of the Maruts.

http://www.vedanet.com/2012/06/vedic-origins-of-the-europeans-the-children-of-danu/

 

[vikrama]

Dear Srimati Renuka,

The word marutsakhabha is not found in the RV.

Wind is said to be a friend of fire in the sense that forest fires are fanned by winds. There the word marut is not used. vAtajUta is the term used. It means prompted by wind. While vata and vayu are synonymously used, marut is a different kind. Though it is said to be the wind, in what way this is different from vayu is not clear. As for maruts' role, they are always plural. They are numbered 49 in one context and 63 in another. They are the sons of rudra and przni and they work as assistants of Indra in slaying vrtra. They bring rain. Forests tremble at their coming. This is the essence of what is said about maruts. We are unabale to confirm whether maruts are winds.

Regarding your second point, the number mentioned is quoted below. It does not contain anything resembling a serpent.

Maruts, to you this laud with prayer and worship, formed in the mind and heart, ye Gods, is offered. Come ye to us, rejoicing in your spirit, for ye are they who make our prayer effective.
[TABLE="width: 1754"]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 1754, align: left"]एष: | व: | स्तोम: | मरुत: | नमस्वान् | हृदा | तष्ट: | मनसा | धायि | देवा: | उप | ईम् | आ | यात | मनसा | जुषाणा: | यूयम् | हि | स्थ | नमस: | इत् | वृधास: RV_1,171.2

Regarding sarasvati, 7.96.2 the term marutsakhA is an epithet to her. Why she is so called is nowhere
explained.

The epithet sudAnu (plural -sudAnava ) is a general attribute for all the gods, right from agni
to sarasvati. It simply means, a liberal giver.
All gods are described as liberal bestowers of boons on the devotees.
This does not have any more significance.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]