Advice to Parents - Arrange for Inter-Brahmin marriage

[RVR]

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Dear Shri RVR,

I also hope that something works out. But at the same time I can tell from personal knowledge that the North Indian Brahmins (NIB) generally have an attitude of condescension towards the South Indian Brahmins, specially when it comes to marriage alliance, who are mocked as "aNDoo guNDoo ThaNDApAni". If an alliance happens between a TB boy and a NIB girl, the best one can hope is that the couple will get along without problem ( and a high income for the boy will be a sort of guarantee for this), but the boy's parents will be persona non grata, especially if they are somewhat conservative and are unable to change to a semi-westernised, semi-mughalised life style which even the ordinary NIBs follow.

Shri Sangom,

We have completed four swayamvaram functions in the last eight months and we have planned one in Trivandrum on July 11, 2010.

We feel that there is real shortage of girls for 30 plus aged boys and the shortage for 30 minus boys seems to be less.

Approximately we came across around 1200 boys in the last four swayamvarams and it is likely to be more if we take into account uncovered areas.

Brahmin population in North India is very high with UP, Uttranchal, Delhi etc constituting more than 10% of the local population.

If the parents of our eligible boys are really interested, we can tap the north Indian sources.

We are organising swayamvaram funcitons only as a voluntary service and if eligible girls among TB community are not available, we cannot do anything about it. We are not God men to create TB girls out of thin air.

Let the boys and their parents decide the future course of action and we are willing to serve them to the best of our abilities.

All the best

 

[sangom]

Shri Sangom,

We have completed four swayamvaram functions in the last eight months and we have planned one in Trivandrum on July 11, 2010.

We feel that there is real shortage of girls for 30 plus aged boys and the shortage for 30 minus boys seems to be less.

Approximately we came across around 1200 boys in the last four swayamvarams and it is likely to be more if we take into account uncovered areas.

Brahmin population in North India is very high with UP, Uttranchal, Delhi etc constituting more than 10% of the local population.

If the parents of our eligible boys are really interested, we can tap the north Indian sources.

We are organising swayamvaram funcitons only as a voluntary service and if eligible girls among TB community are not available, we cannot do anything about it. We are not God men to create TB girls out of thin air.

Let the boys and their parents decide the future course of action and we are willing to serve them to the best of our abilities.

All the best

Shri RVR,

I am not at all against alliance for our boys from NIBs. The only point I would request you to think over is whether the local NBs - with suitable conditions - may also be considered in the swayamvaram functions.

 

[RVR]

Shri RVR,

I am not at all against alliance for our boys from NIBs. The only point I would request you to think over is whether the local NBs - with suitable conditions - may also be considered in the swayamvaram functions.

As far as Swayamvaram functions are concerned, we are just fulfilling the wishes of the participants.

Right now we are convincing the audience to give up sub-caste phenomenon which certain sections are still not willing to do.

We cannot suggest the participants to give up caste right now.

Commercial matrimony sites are already disturbed with the success of our swayamvaram functions. We are not at bothered about them as we are not doing any commercial business but just a service to our community. But some of the organisers have got threatening calls.

Even in our forum also, I have been criticised that I am a castiest.

Under these circumstances, We are unable to deviate from present position of entertaining only brahmins in our swayamvaram functions.

All the best

 

[sankara_sharmah]

There is no composite, uniform group which can be called North Indian Brahmins. When I talked about North Indian Brahmins, it was all those Brahmins outside the Southern states.

Orissa is another state where there are many Brahmins. Vaidic Brahmins. Kanchi Math runs a Veda Patashala in Orissa.

You can not compare the Brahmins from Jharkand or Garwal with the Bengali Brahmins.

There are many lower middle class families in Jkatkand and Orissa who might think of a marriage alliance with Tamil Brahmins.

The vast majority of the Barhmins in North India are Vegetarians. The exceptions are the Brahmins from Bengal, Assam and Kashmir. Even here all Vaishnavites are strictly Vegetarian. The Gowdiya Math would be shocked to hear some of our members classifying all The Bengali Brahmins as non-Vegetarian.

There are hundreds of sects of Brahmins all over India and Nepal speaking different languages. We do tend to classify all the languages as Hindi. But how many of us are aware of the different languages within the so called Hindi?

Awadhi
Bhaojpuri
Brij
Bihari
Chatisgahari
Garhwali
Haryanvi and so on. The list is huge.

Given a choice none of these people would marry a person speaking any other language other than their own.

So let us not attribute characters and motives to such a diverse group. It would be wrong.

By the way I would also include Nepal within our perview. A large number of Brahmins who belong to the lower middle class.

 

[sangom]

There is no composite, uniform group which can be called North Indian Brahmins. When I talked about North Indian Brahmins, it was all those Brahmins outside the Southern states.

Orissa is another state where there are many Brahmins. Vaidic Brahmins. Kanchi Math runs a Veda Patashala in Orissa.

You can not compare the Brahmins from Jharkand or Garwal with the Bengali Brahmins.

There are many lower middle class families in Jkatkand and Orissa who might think of a marriage alliance with Tamil Brahmins.

The vast majority of the Barhmins in North India are Vegetarians. The exceptions are the Brahmins from Bengal, Assam and Kashmir. Even here all Vaishnavites are strictly Vegetarian. The Gowdiya Math would be shocked to hear some of our members classifying all The Bengali Brahmins as non-Vegetarian.

There are hundreds of sects of Brahmins all over India and Nepal speaking different languages. We do tend to classify all the languages as Hindi. But how many of us are aware of the different languages within the so called Hindi?

Awadhi
Bhaojpuri
Brij
Bihari
Chatisgahari
Garhwali
Haryanvi and so on. The list is huge.

Given a choice none of these people would marry a person speaking any other language other than their own.

So let us not attribute characters and motives to such a diverse group. It would be wrong.

By the way I would also include Nepal within our perview. A large number of Brahmins who belong to the lower middle class.

During the course of my All India service, I have come across many of the classes of Brahmins from the north including Gauhati, some of whom had been close friends of mine also. Hence my remarks are not from "out of thin air" but from actual observation. Even some of the brahmin groups, particularly the younger generation - that of my sons, around 40 years now - which you refer to had taken very easily to eggs and non-vegetarian food outside their homes because their orthodox parents would not allow that within the house.

When you talk about Gaudiya math, you are talking of a small sect. Visitors to the maths who have not been converted to the Gaudiya norms will not necessarily follow the rules of the sect.

I am not sure about Nepali brahmins in general. But I once had a peon who was a Nepali Brahmin and he used to eat mutton and eggs, and probably fish also since he had a good number of Bengali friends.

One Acharya an Oriya brahmin was my colleague and he and his family used to eat fish. When I enquired, he replied that most of them were fish-eaters, only the very religious-minded and the widows of olden times did not eat fish.

I do not know whether you have had better opportunities to live in such places like Kanpur, Lucknow, Gauhati, Mumbai, Ahmedabad etc., and tour at least some of the rural and semi-urban centres of these states. I had.

 

[sankara_sharmah]

I had my education in five states and worked in seven. I have travelled and stayed in places from Srinagar (Garwal) to Kanyakumari.

Gowdiya Vaishnavites are not a small sect and form a sizable percentage of Brahmins. They are the followers of Chaitanya Maha Prabhu.In fact Vegetarian food is called Vaishnavite Bhojan in Bengal.

Vaishnavism is very popular in Assam. Kanchi Math has erected a temple for Balaji in Gowhati.

 

[sankara_sharmah]

Staying and working in places does not necessarily mean that we know the people. Tamil Brahmins in Mumbai and Kolkata staying for decades hardly know anything in detail about Maharashtrians or Bengalis. How many Tamil Brahmins in Kolkata know about the Dakshanithiya Brahmins of Midanapore district? People who are called South Indian. My father worked for a longer period in Bengal than me. But he did not know any of this information.

How many Tamil Brahmins know that Bengal was ruled for more than 200 years by South Indian Brahmins? The Sena dynasty. Or that many of the Elite Bengali Vaidic Brahmins used to send their children to Kanchipuram for learning the Vedas? Or Adisura who is supposed to have brought the Brahmins to Bengal was a Tamil Brahmin?

I can go on about every region of India.

In my first post I had mentioned my inter-action with Desastha Brahmins in Pandharpur. These are the local Brahmins. Poor and lower middle class. We were united by our love for Panduranga and a common identity as Brahmins.

This thinking is not uncommon among other Brahmins. But so far no concrete action on a community level has been done. Only individual cases.

 

[kunjuppu]

folks,

let us not forget the common aim of this thread. let us pool our knowledge together, for good purpose. it does not really matter who knows more and who is more accurate.

what matters how it can be usefully channelled.

here is a proposition: can we choose one, just ONE group of brahmins and build a relationship with that community only? instead of spreading our resources wild, we can focus on one, and folks like RVR can target the swayamvaram against that group.

in order to chose the group, we need to spell out some characterestics: must and 'would likes'.

to start off: looks like vegetarianism is a must. saivism? what else?

 

[RVR]

folks,

let us not forget the common aim of this thread. let us pool our knowledge together, for good purpose. it does not really matter who knows more and who is more accurate.

what matters how it can be usefully channelled.

here is a proposition: can we choose one, just ONE group of brahmins and build a relationship with that community only? instead of spreading our resources wild, we can focus on one, and folks like RVR can target the swayamvaram against that group.

in order to chose the group, we need to spell out some characterestics: must and 'would likes'.

to start off: looks like vegetarianism is a must. saivism? what else?

Kunjuppu ji,

Our immediate problem is finding solution to approx three to five thousand brahmin boys who have crossed the age of thirty.

I am arriving at the above figure based on our swayamvaram functions. We met physically around 1200 guys and it could be three or four times of that if we take into account the total population of such people.

Parents of such boys have to take some bold steps. We have to appreciate the above boys for their discipline and obedience.

It is our duty to find solutions for their problem without losing much of time.

I have been suggesting inter-brahmin marriages of different language speaking people and the same is not resisted by them. However they are just buying some time hoping against hope.

If intellectuals in our community come out boldly, we can find solutions to at-least part of the above population.

It is my earnest request to the intellectuals of our community both in this forum and elsewhere to look into the above problem sympathetically and come out with solutions at the earliest.

We are doing a great service to these boys if we find some solutions immediately.

All the best

 

[sangom]

folks,

let us not forget the common aim of this thread. let us pool our knowledge together, for good purpose. it does not really matter who knows more and who is more accurate.

what matters how it can be usefully channelled.

here is a proposition: can we choose one, just ONE group of brahmins and build a relationship with that community only? instead of spreading our resources wild, we can focus on one, and folks like RVR can target the swayamvaram against that group.

in order to chose the group, we need to spell out some characterestics: must and 'would likes'.

to start off: looks like vegetarianism is a must. saivism? what else?

Kunjuppu Sir,

Well said. I also felt that we were drifting. I also vote for vegetarianism as no.1 requirement. Second is language; either the boy's parents should have good command of the girl's mother tongue, or, both sides should have minimum command over a common medium like English or Hindi. Third will be an agreement about whose religious system, festivals, holy days etc., will be followed and how. Even in regard to the marriage ceremony there are lots of differences and it should not become a heartache later on that some item or the other was not followed. (For example, my second son is married to a Brahmin girl from Indore. In that marriage the main thing was an elaborate "paanigrahana" in which the priest and women were present and was very different from our TB custom. The girl's father was required only for the "naalkaal naattu" and 'raksha bandhanam' of the girl. That for the boy was done by the priest himself. The boy's parents were mere onlookers only.) In my view the rest of the marriage will be simpler to come to an agreement about; I mean the other items like what the girl's side should do and the boy's side should do.

 

[kunjuppu]

rvr,

i was looking to people like you with organizational & managerial skills. not to intellectuals of our community both in this forum and elsewhere, who will spend more times wagging the tongue. we need men of action, and not of words.

we need more 'chinese' than 'indian' brahmins

having said above, sangom has given a few more suggestions. i think the details can be sorted out between the two families, once a matrimonial arrangement has been agreed.

i think, the arya samaj wedding is the way to go, bereft of many meaningless functions.

i think, for religious festivals, it is best to be inclusive, and celebrate both cultures. twice the fun, i say.

we can wait for a day or more, and summarize the suggestions.

just like the initiation of the swayamvaram, we can come up with some steps, as to identify 3 or 4 possible matching groups, and figure out how to send out feelers re their attitude towards us.

once this is done, we can then, based on the feedback, select ONE group for further building bridges.

how does this sound?

no more talking and hand wringing. let us accept cold hard statistics that rvr has stated, and move. gottokeeponmoving.

 

[sankara_sharmah]

Why Saivism? It should be Smartha. Though they may not be known as Smarthas most of the Brahmins in India are Smarthas.

 

[nachi naga]

Why Saivism? It should be Smartha. Though they may not be known as Smarthas most of the Brahmins in India are Smarthas.

ss

Smartism (or Smarta Sampradaya, Smarta Tradition, as it is termed in Sanskrit) is a denomination of the Hindu religion. The term Smarta refers to adherents who follow the Vedas and Shastras.They mainly follow the Advaita Vedanta philosophy of Adi Shankara. But there have been instances when they have advocated or followed other philosophies.
In Sanskrit, Smārta means "relating to memory, recorded in or based on the Smrti, based on tradition, prescribed or sanctioned by traditional law or usage, (etc)", from the root smr ("remember"); smarana. Smārta is a vriddhi derivation of Smriti just as Śrauta is a vriddhi derivation of Śruti.The system they follow is referred to also as Srauta-Smartha as evidenced in the sankalpams they take during prayers.[1] This joined reference srauta smartha cannot be separated in the context of an orthodox smartha brahmin because he would be expected to follow the sruti and thereby the smritis derived from them.

 

[sangom]

I think Shri sankara_Sharmah has already referred to Desastha brahmins of Mahharashtra. We may send a feeler to them as well as to the Chittapavan brahmins and the Devrukhe brahmins.

 

[sankara_sharmah]

As I said earlier Kanchi Math has a Veda Patashala in Orissa. I may be able to locate the address. But that may not help us much.
I am sure the math will have good contacts among the Orissa Brahmins. We could approach the Math to help us.

But only in a personal capacity as we can not expect the Math to take a stand favoring us.

Some member with personal contacts in the Math at Kanchipuram may be able to help us.

We should not put too many pre-conditions which would turn off people. Flexibility is the name of the game.

 

[RVR]

There is a list of all brahmins in the website

Kamat's Potpourri: Brahmins - A List of Brahmin Communities

Those who want to fine tune it can do it please.

All the best

 

[kunjuppu]

does anyone know if they have forums (liek tamilbrahmins.com). this atleast would be a start.

 

[nachi naga]

new website in the making http://www.englishbrahmins.com

Like many big cities, Boston has its own dialects that are governed more by social factors like class and ethnicity than by geographic location. Greater Boston Area is the most widely spoken and is very similar to Eastern New England. Brahmin is spoken by the upper aristocratic class like Mr. Howell on Gilligan's Island.

 

[sankara_sharmah]

Many people in this forum may not like it.

But the people who can help is R.S.S.

 

[RVR]

does anyone know if they have forums (liek tamilbrahmins.com). this atleast would be a start.

Most of them have websites and we have to search and find out which is not a difficult thing

If there is a will, there is a way.

All the best

 

[sangom]

does anyone know if they have forums (liek tamilbrahmins.com). this atleast would be a start.

Pl. see

Devrukhe Brahmin
Welcome to Kokanastha.com

The Deshasthas don't seem to have a website. Perhaps ss can contact some one in the Pandharpur group and find out whom to contact.

I feel that we may also try contacting some of the Karnataka brahmin groups. I will try to get their websites and post here. Kannada and Tamil are alike and communication will be somewhat easy.

 

[sangom]

Dear RVR, Kunjuppu,

Here are some website urls of Karnataka brahmins.

Sankethi brahmins of Karnataka:

NASA - Fostering the global Sankethi community

Hoysala Brahmins of Karnataka:

Welcomes to Hoysalakarnatakaru.org - www.hoysalakarnatakaru.org - Explore HK With Us

Kota brahmins of Karnataka:

http://www.kootabandhu.org/index.html

Akhila Karnataka Brahmins Welfare Society, R.P.C Layout, Bangalore:

Akhila Karnataka Brahmins Welfare Society, R.P.C Layout, Bangalore | Akhila Karnataka Brahmins Welfare Society, Association in Bangalore - Reviews - asklaila

 

[nachi naga]

The Babburkamme (alternate spellings: "Bobburukamme", "Babboor Kamme") community is a caste of Smarta Brahmins whose members mainly reside in Karnataka and Tamil Nadu states in India. There also exist sizeable populations of the community in other countries like USA, Canada, UK, Australia and New Zealand.
Babburkammes are followers of the Smarta tradition (see Smartism). Smarta is derived from 'Smrithi', a Sanskrit word with the meaning of "one who remembers or reveres their teacher/Guru". Smarta tradition is closely associated with the Advaita tradition of Sri Adi Shankaracharya. Kamme is derived from 'Karmin' (Karmigalu in Kannada) meaning those who practice "Vaidhika Dharma".

 

[RVR]

State wise brahmins population in India is available in the following link

www.outlookindia.com | Brahmins In India

All the best

 

[sankara_sharmah]

RVR,

This is a huge step. But for this to succeed we have to first convince at least 2 or 3 Tamil Brahmin families to agree. You have the list of boys from the Trichy Swayamvaram. Select 10 of them and suggest to them with no guarantee that we may be able to locate Brahmins from other places.

Once this is done we may contact either individuals or groups of other Brahmin communities to locate Girls.

If at least a couple of marriages are conducted successfully this will prove as an incentive for others to follow.