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Advice to Parents - Arrange for Inter-Brahmin marriage

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THERE is section of TAMIL BRAHMIN COMMUNITY in SRILANKA.

They are in distressed state where supply of Brahmin girls will be a source. They practice vegetarianism and are mostly saivites. Broad minded TB can help these girls.They worship Vishnu without inhibitions.

This is a source one can look into for they talk tamil in SRILANKAN way but yet they practice brahmin culture. This way inter caste marriage - the need can be avoided. WE can get to them through temple preist in TRICONEMALLE.
Dear Kunjuppu, RVR,

The second best way (next to TB girls themselves for our unmarried boys) will be Srilankan Tamil girls. If there will be no problem of their coming to India on a migrant status, this will be worth considering. But I was not too sure if GOI will allow this at a juncture like this.
 
sangom,

even in the same household, there is so much heated discussion over difference of views. i think, in this forum, where we are all impersonally represented through our written words, it is but natural to differ and that too, differ widely.

as long as we write politely, respectfully, avoid innuendos, bravados and boasts, i think we are all mature to accommodate each others' views, inspite of disagreement.

it was in this context, i made a couple of points to swami, with whom i agree on some, differ on many, but have a regard, and am very surprised by his somewhat supportive inclination with folks who want people to be thrown out because of some singular view.

let us move on. my own earnest call, in private messages, to folks who think of moving on beyond this forum, due to misunderstandings.... is to emphasize the difference their presence makes. especially folks who have strong held views of egalitarianism or marriage across castes. these views also needs to be represented for hiding dirt under the carpet, does not mean that the dirt has be rid of. out in the open, i say - let us not be violent, wordwise, but only use wit, logic, humour and reasoning, to present our views.

i tell them, as many here would vouch, to stick around here, and without fear proclaim your dearly held views, but within the decorum of the forum. so far, there has been no untoward incidents or spilled (cyber) blood. such bloodspilling as it was here, has always come from extreme views of the right, which i feel, has less tolerance of divergence, and would rather have them disappear out of this forum. or even this earth. :)

for in the ultimate, i do not think, one member, changes his view or opinions. but he lears a life lesson - to tolerate and give a hearing to someone else, who does a different worldview.

always good to chat with you sangom. haveagoodday. :)

Thank you. I would like to narrate an anecdote, about 20 years ago. I was in Mumbai then and had a colleague senior to me in age. We used to travel back from office (Churchgate) to Andheri and walk about a km. together and then branch off to our flats. He was a Desasthha brahmin, had two daughters and was looking out for a boy for the elder daughter. For some reason or the other, no case was getting to the stage of even negotiation. I think dowry was there, but I do not know the extent. One day I suggested to him to widen the search and include the other Maharashtra brahmins also and TB boys born and brought up in Mumbai, since they would know Marathi and be also familiar with Maharashtrian ways of life. Actually I had in mind one or two boys of my circle who were born and brought up in Mumbai and whose parents were also willing to get them married to Maharashtrian brahmins.

My colleague's reply was that each brahmin group considered itself superior to others and there was no chance for an arranged marriage with a boy of the other brahmin groups. (Love marriage was not opposed in Mumbai but villages were more conservative.) Marriage to a boy from some intermediate Maharashtrian caste was possible and is being done in some cases. As to a "Madrasi" boy, he said, it will not be accepted by any of his people; if it was a love marriage in which case he would have to yield to his daughter's wish, but he would lose face among his relatives, especially those in the village. Finally he said that their bonds as "Maharashtrians" is stronger than their brahmin consciousness, much less with Madrasi brahmins who had come there for their livelihood recently.

Though this was about 20 years ago, I do not think that a sentiment like this (Maharashtrian spirit) which has roots going deep in their minds, would have been replaced in these twenty years by "Brahmin" spirit which seems to be more powerful among the TBs.
 
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Dear Kunjuppu, RVR,

The second best way (next to TB girls themselves for our unmarried boys) will be Srilankan Tamil girls. If there will be no problem of their coming to India on a migrant status, this will be worth considering. But I was not too sure if GOI will allow this at a juncture like this.

There is no problem for an Indian to marry a foreigner. My own relative married a Srilankan Tamil Brahmin girl and the children are all Indian citizens only.

Let us pursue this also.

All the best
 
THERE is section of TAMIL BRAHMIN COMMUNITY in SRILANKA.

They are in distressed state where supply of Brahmin girls will be a source. They practice vegetarianism and are mostly saivites. Broad minded TB can help these girls.They worship Vishnu without inhibitions.

This is a source one can look into for they talk tamil in SRILANKAN way but yet they practice brahmin culture. This way inter caste marriage - the need can be avoided. WE can get to them through temple preist in TRICONEMALLE.

Great. The Yazhpaanam Tamils speak a purer form of Tamil than the people of Tamil Nadu. They are Saivites and akin to our Gurukkal.

Please furnish the name and postal address of the temple priest in Thrikonamalai by P.M to RVR. How about the Gurukkal in Nallur Kandaswamy Kovil in Yazhpaanam? Does Kathirgamam have a Tamil Gurkkal?
 
Dear all,

We are conducting Swayamvaram functions as a voluntary service to our community.

We have no commercial motive and we are just trying to do the event on self financing basis. However we incur some deficit when we conduct events in Non-Metro cities.

Sri Swaminatha Sharma also is doing his services purely to help our community and he is not interested in making money out of it. Infact he has personally incurred some expenditures which we are unable to reimburse. All the other organisers are spending money from their pockets for travel, stay etc.

Annadhanam during last two events were done out of donations from some of our members, volunteers and others.

We are not promoting astrology also. It is just provided as a free service to the participants. But all the participants are very much interested in astrology and personally I have not heard anybody telling that they are not interested in astrology.

In our forum we are discussing so many things. Discussions are going on about Intercaste marriage in one thread. In this thread we are discussing inter brahmin marriage.

We,( organisers) just watch with interest for workable & acceptable points and we shall sincerely try to convey these points to the particpants. But ultimately the participants have to take the final call and we don't have any say on their decisions. We are not forcing anything on anybody.

We face lot of problems from commercial matrimony groups. They feel that we are competitors to them as their business is affected. Under these conditions, if we attempt to enforce some reforms in our community, it may be used as a weapon against us by these commercial matrimony groups.

So we are deliberately avoiding any reform measures. Even the inter-brahmin marriage proposal will be put forward just as a suggestion to overcome the present problem as we feel there won't be a violent opposition to the idea.

The differences of opinion crops up in this forum mainly on reform agenda. Please understand that organisers of swayamvaram function are not enforcing any reform agenda on the participants. We are just fulfilling their aspirations to the best of our ability. Beyond this we are not attempting anything on our own.

Please understand the above and and co-operate with us accordingly.

All the best
 
I would not call it reform. It is Going Back to the Roots.

The Brahmins from South India who settled down in Bengal got merged into the Bengali population. The Kashmiri Brahmins who came to Tamil Nadu (as per Raja Tharangini, the Kashmiri history and stone inscriptions found) got merged with the Tamilians. Brahmins have been going up and down India and settling down. They could do this because of the common Brahmin heritage.

Vallabacharya's followers are mostly in the East and North though he was from the South. He did most of his working in Brindavan. Have you seen the Ranga temple in Brindavan? A South Indian temple for Aranganathar. There is a Sree Vaishnava Agraharam near the temple.

What we are attempting is to recall and revive the common Brahmin heritage.
 
One of my colleague in Hyderabad is origionally from Valangaiman in Tiruvarur District, Tamilnadu. His great grand father went to Kaasi and while returning settled in a village near Rajamundiri at the banks of Godavari River. He has traced his origin to Valangaiman and enquired about the place.

They are origionally Tamil Brahmins but now they are Telugu Brahmins. They are followers of Kanchi mutt.

Just like Kerala Iyers, these people have migrated to Andhra. Since they have adopted Telugu language, they are now known as Telugu Smartha Brahmins.

However in Kerala, our community continue to speak Tamil at home & also retained the title `Iyer' and hence are considered as Tamil Brahmins only.

Let us revive our roots and continue our culture without affecting other communities.

Parsis are a very small population where as we 5.6 crore strong at all India level. I don't think we will get extinguished in the near future.

All the best
 
Advice to parents -Inter caste Marriage

Dear RVR sir,
DEAR RVR SIr & Others,
I am not in INDIA. When I was in ZAmbia, I used to come across Srilankan TBs looking for TB boys ultimately settling with pillaimars.A sizable SRILANKANS are studying dance in KALAKSHETRA. We can contact them. Besides LONDON TAMIL SRILANKAN ASSOCIATION will be of great help in identifying the correct contact. Websites on KADIR GRAMAM, YAZHPANAM, & TRICONEMELLI will be of use. RVR sir, You can contact KALAKSHETRA for this. TAMIL BRAHMIN GIRLS ARE DEXTRESS and love preservation of our culture . The civil war has made TB boys shortage. Unfortunately conversion is taking place to destroy what is left of Tamil Brahmin culture in Srilanka. Will our boys and parents take a plunge? SHARMA sir, Don't lose your heart. A beginning is being made and let us preserve our TB culture through whatever we can do. Let us try to prevent our girls and boys resorting to Inter religious marriage by being good guiding parents and ensuring correct mix.
 
Dear RVR sir,
DEAR RVR SIr & Others,
I am not in INDIA. When I was in ZAmbia, I used to come across Srilankan TBs looking for TB boys ultimately settling with pillaimars.A sizable SRILANKANS are studying dance in KALAKSHETRA. We can contact them. Besides LONDON TAMIL SRILANKAN ASSOCIATION will be of great help in identifying the correct contact. Websites on KADIR GRAMAM, YAZHPANAM, & TRICONEMELLI will be of use. RVR sir, You can contact KALAKSHETRA for this. TAMIL BRAHMIN GIRLS ARE DEXTRESS and love preservation of our culture . The civil war has made TB boys shortage. Unfortunately conversion is taking place to destroy what is left of Tamil Brahmin culture in Srilanka. Will our boys and parents take a plunge? SHARMA sir, Don't lose your heart. A beginning is being made and let us preserve our TB culture through whatever we can do. Let us try to prevent our girls and boys resorting to Inter religious marriage by being good guiding parents and ensuring correct mix.

Sri RVR,

If there are people in Kalakshetra it will be possible for some one of your organisers to meet them and discuss, I suppose. Perhaps you will find ready acceptance from parents of boys here in TVM, since they are now so desperate that one or two cases of alliance with non-brahmin brides, has taken place.
 
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There is no problem for an Indian to marry a foreigner. My own relative married a Srilankan Tamil Brahmin girl and the children are all Indian citizens only.

Let us pursue this also.

All the best

RVR Sir,

I am also in full support of this idea, and, as I wrote earlier, this is the next best alternative after TB girls from India itself. But, I was having doubts whether GOI will now allow any Sri Lankan national easily to come and settle down here for good. Lest we give hope to both parties and later on, some problem crops up, I would like you to ensure that there will be no immigration problem. The marriage you refer to is old - before the recent war on LTTE, I suppose. Pl. don't take this as something against your noble attempt. It is only a suggestion.
 
Advice to parents -Inter caste Marriage

Dear Sirs,

Another contact can be the Lady Doctor in charge of MALAR HOSPITAL. ( THE PIONEER HUSBAND DOCTOR DIED). She has given her duaghter in marriage to MUTHIAH MURALITHARAN. She is a very nice lady and I had talked to her when I was in India. We can get better connections through her.
 
This is one good thread for swayamvaram of tb's.wish to congratulate our members for organising a noble worthy cause.We can even make our memebes with a database for future anticipations of tb families children as well.Maybe a seperate place with all contact details can be arranged,especially we are now a global presence.A fee can also be mandatory,to help over expenses,which will be a welcome source for organisers.
 
Dear Sirs,

Another contact can be the Lady Doctor in charge of MALAR HOSPITAL. ( THE PIONEER HUSBAND DOCTOR DIED). She has given her duaghter in marriage to MUTHIAH MURALITHARAN. She is a very nice lady and I had talked to her when I was in India. We can get better connections through her.

Sri Srinath,

Thanks for the inputs. I shall try all these sources.

Can you establish some contacts through facebook, Orkut etc.

It may help in a great way.

All the best
 
rvr,

i think you, swami, sabesan et al are doing yeoman service, and may your tribe increase.

re tvm swayamvaram, it would be good, but needing a lot of tact and unthreatening words, to put forward the reality of the issue - ie no amount of prayers or vrithams, will correct the essential imbalance of number differences between the genders.

having said that, pause and wait for the response. ... and take it from there. let us hope for an opening of our minds first. we can then worry about opening brahmin minds from other states.

re telugu settled tamil brahmins, i have noted in an earlier post, there are lots of them, in small andhra villages and towns, probably running coffee shops and living poor.

re maratha brahminss, their identity to marathi culture is to be welcomed and envied. too bad, we do not think ourselves tamils first, then brahmins. our marathi brahmin compatriots identify themselves in the right order, i think.

best wishes.
 
rvr,

i think you, swami, sabesan et al are doing yeoman service, and may your tribe increase.

re tvm swayamvaram, it would be good, but needing a lot of tact and unthreatening words, to put forward the reality of the issue - ie no amount of prayers or vrithams, will correct the essential imbalance of number differences between the genders.

having said that, pause and wait for the response. ... and take it from there. let us hope for an opening of our minds first. we can then worry about opening brahmin minds from other states.

re telugu settled tamil brahmins, i have noted in an earlier post, there are lots of them, in small andhra villages and towns, probably running coffee shops and living poor.

re maratha brahminss, their identity to marathi culture is to be welcomed and envied. too bad, we do not think ourselves tamils first, then brahmins. our marathi brahmin compatriots identify themselves in the right order, i think.

best wishes.

Kunjuppu ji,

Definitely we shall deliver our views politely but firmly. Let the audience decide the future course of action.

Response seems to good for TVM event and Chandru is doing an excellent job.

We have informally discussed with few parents and they are not averse to the idea. But who will bell the cat is the question. If one or two venture out then others will follow. I am sure we can find one or two guys at TVM.

Mindset is alredy changing but how for it has changed we can assess only when we discuss with them.

All the best.
 
Kunjuppu ji,

Definitely we shall deliver our views politely but firmly. Let the audience decide the future course of action.

Response seems to good for TVM event and Chandru is doing an excellent job.

We have informally discussed with few parents and they are not averse to the idea. But who will bell the cat is the question. If one or two venture out then others will follow. I am sure we can find one or two guys at TVM.

Mindset is alredy changing but how for it has changed we can assess only when we discuss with them.

All the best.


rvr,

'who is the first to bell the cat?' may be the question.

i have a gut feeling, that after the first half dozen marriages, there will be a stampede. :)
 
rvr,

i think you, swami, sabesan et al are doing yeoman service, and may your tribe increase.

re tvm swayamvaram, it would be good, but needing a lot of tact and unthreatening words, to put forward the reality of the issue - ie no amount of prayers or vrithams, will correct the essential imbalance of number differences between the genders.

having said that, pause and wait for the response. ... and take it from there. let us hope for an opening of our minds first. we can then worry about opening brahmin minds from other states.

re telugu settled tamil brahmins, i have noted in an earlier post, there are lots of them, in small andhra villages and towns, probably running coffee shops and living poor.

re maratha brahminss, their identity to marathi culture is to be welcomed and envied. too bad, we do not think ourselves tamils first, then brahmins. our marathi brahmin compatriots identify themselves in the right order, i think.

best wishes.

Kunjuppu Sir,

Now the organising group of Swayamvaram function is very large . None of the organisers of Coimbatore and Trichy functions are participating in our forum. Behind Chandru, there are more than dozen volunteers working day and night to make the TVM function a great success. Even Chanru's participation is very much limited here and others are avoiding this forum. Even Sri Sabesan is not particpating in our discussions regularly and his other colleagues in Bangalore have practically withdrawn from this forum.

Probably all the above mean only action and not interested in talking. May be they don't want to participate in the discussions to avoid unnecessary provocations.

Now we are going to complete first round and hereinafter it will take care of itself. I am also planning to withdraw from regular organising of each & every event and concentrate more on formation of a trust for our community.

People like you are great strength to us. It requires a modern outlook with a conservative approach. Unless ideas are coming from such mindset, it will be very difficult to implement.

We are serving mostly poor and middle class sections of our community in Swayamvaram functions. With great difficulty we are convincing them to get out sub-caste syndrome. But taking them beyond this at this point of time is a very difficult proposition.

Shortage of girls prevails mostly for 30 plus boys and it seems to be less in 30 minus segment. If we solve the problem for 30 plus boys, it will be a great service to our community. I am planning to approach Kerala Brahmana Sabha for promoting the inter brahmin marriage idea. They are more progressive and service minded. Once it is successful with them, we can take it to Tamilnadu Brahmin community directly.

Please suggest your views on the above.

All the best
 
Kunjuppu Sir,
Now we are going to complete first round and hereinafter it will take care of itself. I am also planning to withdraw from regular organising of each & every event and concentrate more on formation of a trust for our community.

Sorry for the intrusion. I am not clear whether you are stopping the "swayamvaram" expriment and concentrating on a trust. If so, the immediate difficulty of shortage of girls for 30+ boys will linger on and perhaps aggravate also as I find that boys get sifted even when their names enter the marriage circuit sufficiently early. Even IT sector boys are finding it increasingly difficult to get a bride unless they come in the top rank in most respects.

We are serving mostly poor and middle class sections of our community in Swayamvaram functions. With great difficulty we are convincing them to get out sub-caste syndrome. But taking them beyond this at this point of time is a very difficult proposition.

Shortage of girls prevails mostly for 30 plus boys and it seems to be less in 30 minus segment. If we solve the problem for 30 plus boys, it will be a great service to our community. I am planning to approach Kerala Brahmana Sabha for promoting the inter brahmin marriage idea. They are more progressive and service minded. Once it is successful with them, we can take it to Tamilnadu Brahmin community directly.

Please suggest your views on the above.

All the best
I hope you will find a welcome change in TVPM. To the best of my knowledge most TB people here (exceptions may be there, of course) have got over the sub-caste syndrome, particularly the boys' side now. Even in regard to girls' side though they may initially have a preference in their heart of hearts, they do exchange horoscopes with those of other sub-castes and try to choose the best option, leaving out sub-caste stipulation, and, by and large, we have been having quite a few marriages across sub-castes in Kerala for some years now.
 
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Sri Sangom Sir,

Definitely I am not leaving the swayamvaram function. Now we have put organising groups at all the places and they will conduct the functions very well. I along with few other organisers shall concentrate in getting matching girls from Brahmin communities speaking other languages.

The trust is mainly to help poor members of our community in education and medical fields. Probably we can add career guidance service for all our youngsters. There is also demand for old age homes but we cannot spread our wings in too many areas and we shall concentrate in just few areas. Please advice us as to how to go about it.

Tamil brahmins in Kerala by and large have given up sub-caste limitation. However in the matrimony sites, they want only Kerala Iyers. I wish people like you to advice them to change this mindset also.

All the best
 
Sri Sangom Sir,

Definitely I am not leaving the swayamvaram function. Now we have put organising groups at all the places and they will conduct the functions very well. I along with few other organisers shall concentrate in getting matching girls from Brahmin communities speaking other languages.

The trust is mainly to help poor members of our community in education and medical fields. Probably we can add career guidance service for all our youngsters. There is also demand for old age homes but we cannot spread our wings in too many areas and we shall concentrate in just few areas. Please advice us as to how to go about it.

Tamil brahmins in Kerala by and large have given up sub-caste limitation. However in the matrimony sites, they want only Kerala Iyers. I wish people like you to advice them to change this mindset also.

All the best

The "kerala Iyer" preference is probably on account of the fact that the boy's side here is not given the 'undue' (in my view) importance which still seems to be there in T. Nadu (I know about TLY, it is my "poorveekam" and I still have contacts). The TBs of T. Nadu seem to me to be very fastidious about சீர், செனத்தி, விசேஷங்களுக்கு ஒவ்வொன்றுக்கும் வேஷ்டி, புடவை, பட்சணங்கள் etc., whereas it is not so rigorously demanded here.

In view of the shortage of girls everywhere, perhaps the girls' side here may prefer Kerala people from the available pool of boys, but they will not be very much against T. Nadu boys either. Perhaps, the boys' parents from T. Nadu may also like to change their age-old systems in the present conditions.
 
The "kerala Iyer" preference is probably on account of the fact that the boy's side here is not given the 'undue' (in my view) importance which still seems to be there in T. Nadu (I know about TLY, it is my "poorveekam" and I still have contacts). The TBs of T. Nadu seem to me to be very fastidious about சீர், செனத்தி, விசேஷங்களுக்கு ஒவ்வொன்றுக்கும் வேஷ்டி, புடவை, பட்சணங்கள் etc., whereas it is not so rigorously demanded here.

In view of the shortage of girls everywhere, perhaps the girls' side here may prefer Kerala people from the available pool of boys, but they will not be very much against T. Nadu boys either. Perhaps, the boys' parents from T. Nadu may also like to change their age-old systems in the present conditions.

I think the systems are changing everywhere. Dowry and other peripherals are almost a thing of the past. Getting a girl itself has become very difficult nowadays. How can them demand other things?

Even Mother in Law (MIL) menace is not there. Now MILs knows that they will be packed to old age homes if they create any confusion.

May be Kerala TBs are more progressive in outlook as compared to their Tamilnadu counter parts. But it will get removed in due course.

All the best
 
I do hope you have made arrangements to cover Thirunelveli district in the Trivandrum function. Most of the Tamil Brahmins in Trivandrum are originally from Thirunelveli and Ramnad districts. We have an extremely strong Tamil Brahmin presence in Kallidaikurichi, Ambasamudram, Kadaiyam and other villages in Thirunelveli district. Again Nagercoil, Mahathanapuram, Puliyurkurichi, Sucheendram and other villages in Kanya Kumari district.

The Pothi community had a fairly good presence in the Trivandrum/Nagercoil area. They would be the first choice. But I wonder how many of them are still left? There were Maharashtrian and Telugu Brahmins in Travancore. But not many are left now.

The biggest Brahmin Agraharam in Kerala is Karamana and its offshoot Vinay Nagar. East Fort again has a good number of Tamil Brahmins.

Only for information.

There is no uniform identity called Kerala Iyers. The Tamil Brahmins of Travancore are mostly from Thirunelveli and Ramnad district. The Palghat Iyers are mostly from Tanjore. Inter-marriage between even these two was not common earlier.

There has been some progress in thinking.

The sub-sub caste distinction has disappeared. No one talks about Kandramanickam and Mangudi Brahcharanam now.

Please see the sub sub castes of Iyers here. Even this list also may not be complete.

Iyer Iyers Community India Brahmins Today Tamil South Castes
 
Even Chanru's participation is very much limited here and others are avoiding this forum. Even Sri Sabesan is not particpating in our discussions regularly and his other colleagues in Bangalore have practically withdrawn from this forum.

Probably all the above mean only action and not interested in talking. May be they don't want to participate in the discussions to avoid unnecessary provocations.

Shri RVR,

Going by the conversation b/w Shri Nara and Shri Zeitgeist, i will therefore not apologise for this intrusion. You have repeated the above in some posts. Forum is a place where ppl discuss diverse things. Provocation is not a one -way traffic. For most part, consider ppl as mirrors, if you do not provoke them, they too will not. If you do, one cannot expect others will stop at a certain length. The better thing to do is to avoid provocative topics in the first place. If you wish no one shd talk, then you might consider asking praveen to close down this website and communicate among yourselves thru emails.

Regards.
 
Shri RVR,

Going by the conversation b/w Shri Nara and Shri Zeitgeist, i will therefore not apologise for this intrusion. You have repeated the above in some posts. Forum is a place where ppl discuss diverse things. Provocation is not a one -way traffic. For most part, consider ppl as mirrors, if you do not provoke them, they too will not. If you do, one cannot expect others will stop at a certain length. The better thing to do is to avoid provocative topics in the first place. If you wish no one shd talk, then you might consider asking praveen to close down this website and communicate among yourselves thru emails.

Regards.
HH,

The problem, IMO seems to be that we have very many different impressions of the entities called "brahmin", "Tamil brahmin", "Kerala Iyer", "North Indian brahmin", etc. Each one of us has a certain idea/s about each of the above and that really creates avoidable confusion and verbal outbursts, at times.

RVR's view, according to me, is that we better do something concrete for the TBs, and right now their main problem is getting so many of their 30+ boys married to TB girls, or at least some girl from the brahmin category. Arm-chair discussions like what we (including myself) are mostly doing here, obviously will not help in their program. If that unpleasant truth be expressed by someone, some others will feel hurt. Perhaps it is for Praveen to take a final decision as you rightly point out.
 
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