Ancient hinduism VS modern hinduism

[geetu habibah]

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Dear Sangom:

Believe me, I don't know her at all. I would very much like to know about her family... WE DO NOT BELONG TO THE SAME FAMILY, period.

Yes, there ARE coincidences. She is NOT my daughter - 100% certain.

Cheers.



ps. Sometime ago, someone said Nara = Yamaka! That's also FALSE. Yamaka is a different person living in Houston. Perhaps, Nara lives somewhere in the East Coast of the US.

Dear members,

I think I may have created a confusion here.I was not aware that people were confusing me to be part of Yamaka's family.
I was not aware that Yamaka was a muslim like my father till now when I see him clearing the doubt of Mr Sangom.I was not even aware what the co incidence was all about.

Please do not doubt Yamaka I am not related to him in anyway.

With regards to caste, I do not wish to dwell on that subject because as a devotee of Lord Krishna He is Lord and I am his dasa.
That is the only caste I know,to be his Dasa.
I do not desire any status be it TB or Non TB, I only desire to be at the feet of Lord Krishna nothing more.

In ISKCON our philosophy is simple.Krishna is the Lord.That is the only Dharma I know.

 

[C RAVI]

Dear members,

With regards to caste, I do not wish to dwell on that subject because as a devotee of Lord Krishna He is Lord and I am his dasa.
That is the only caste I know,to be his Dasa.
I do not desire any status be it TB or Non TB, I only desire to be at the feet of Lord Krishna nothing more.

In ISKCON our philosophy is simple.Krishna is the Lord.That is the only Dharma I know.

Well said Ms.Geetu!!

You are lucky to have such a clarity and the joy of being humble servant of Lord Krishna, following the philosophies of ISKCON, I say..

I have been to ISKCON Temple, Bangalore, once with my parents in January, 2010. I was thrilled and rejoiced with the beauty and the serene environment of the entire premise. My parents felt like having entered Vaikuntam and were very much happy with me to have offered them with this wonderul opportunity.

 

[Yamaka]

Dear members,

I think I may have created a confusion here.I was not aware that people were confusing me to be part of Yamaka's family.
I was not aware that Yamaka was a muslim like my father till now when I see him clearing the doubt of Mr Sangom.I was not even aware what the co incidence was all about.

Please do not doubt Yamaka I am not related to him in anyway.

With regards to caste, I do not wish to dwell on that subject because as a devotee of Lord Krishna He is Lord and I am his dasa.
That is the only caste I know,to be his Dasa.
I do not desire any status be it TB or Non TB, I only desire to be at the feet of Lord Krishna nothing more.

In ISKCON our philosophy is simple.Krishna is the Lord.That is the only Dharma I know.

Dear gh:

Please forget about the coincidences in our lives...

Your answer to caste issues is clear, and I admire the clarity you have on the matters of FAITH and your devotion to Lord Krishna. I am happy that you found your happiness.

Perhaps you already know this - there are many other Threads in this Forum dedicated to people of Faith.

Only in this General Discussion you will find Atheists making their controversial comments.

I visit this GD and the Politics & Public Affairs Thread often.

Take care. Say hello to your brother.

Y

 

[geetu habibah]

Dear gh:

Please forget about the coincidences in our lives...

Your answer to caste issues is clear, and I admire the clarity you have on the matters of FAITH and your devotion to Lord Krishna. I am happy that you found your happiness.

Perhaps you already know this - there are many other Threads in this Forum dedicated to people of Faith.

Only in this General Discussion you will find Atheists making their controversial comments.

I visit this GD and the Politics & Public Affairs Thread often.

Take care. Say hello to your brother.

Y

Sure, I will convey your regards to my brother.He used to stay long back before in Lemac Drive Houston TX 77096.
Now he has gone back to India after he accomplished what he wanted in life.

Hare Krishna

 

[happyhindu]

Dear members,
[..]
I do not desire any status be it TB or Non TB, I only desire to be at the feet of Lord Krishna nothing more.

Hare Krishna Geetu,

Very nicely put. I wonder how you may react if you are slotted into a varna against your wishes. Well, i suppose, we are all very lucky to be living under a secular democracy, a different time period. Additionally, you are very lucky to be living in the US where you need not bother about caste, atleast on admission forms.

Best wishes Geetu.

Regards.

 

[wrongan]

Shri sankar,

If you have a basic background of sanskrit, it will help you much; if you don't have, try mastering sanskrit, it is not all that difficult for any youngster familiar with the software languages; the only drawback in sanskrit is that panini has made it so complicated that only an exclusive club would know it.
A very good guidance in fact.For reading books one may not go deep into Panini.He has given elaborate grammer for higher reading and works .Learning Sanskrit will be an easy task for those who has flair for that.

 

[prasad1]

I never think much of caste but I joined TB forum to keep in touch with TB roots not because of caste but just due to the fact that TB's still keep in touch with religion and tradition and I wanted to gain some knowledge in those sections.

Well said.

 

[jayam33]

"hinduism" is sanathana dharma;"the law eternal";"vaidika dharma" as it has vedas for its authority & source.
It was dharma & code of life for men of bharat from times immemorial.
With the word eternal ancient or modern is only a relative term.
Source: Shri satya sai baba.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

Ancient Hinduism Vs modern hinduism

If we trace the history sometime between 17th and middle of 19th Century, we will
notice, Britishers during their rule over here slowly started establishing their power
and replaced slowly and gradually local rulers and began their own, with the result
Hinduism was pushed back to certain extent and Christianity started stepping into.
But Marathan rulers, who dominated the Indian political scene for sometime, became
patron and followers of Hinduism. They made attempts to stop spreading of Islam.
In fact, Marathan rulers, being orthodox hindu traditions, helped revival of religion and
prevented Christianity all over the Country. Modern Hinduism, to be precise, grew out
of Vedas, the oldest of which is Rig Veda, which is dated 1700-1100 BCE or so.
This is a big issue and it cannot be just discussed over one thread.

Balasubramanian

 

[sarma-61]

If we trace the history sometime between 17th and middle of 19th Century, we will notice, Britishers during their rule over here slowly started establishing their power and replaced slowly and gradually local rulers and began their own, with the result Hinduism was pushed back to certain extent and Christianity started stepping into.
But Marathan rulers, who dominated the Indian political scene for sometime, became patron and followers of Hinduism. They made attempts to stop spreading of Islam. In fact, Marathan rulers, being orthodox hindu traditions, helped revival of religion and prevented Christianity all over the Country. Modern Hinduism, to be precise, grew out of Vedas, the oldest of which is Rig Veda, which is dated 1700-1100 BCE or so.
This is a big issue and it cannot be just discussed over one thread.

Balasubramanian

Shri nannilam,

You are blaming the british. But now in many temples like Tirupati Balaji, Pazhani and all, the garbhagriham is kept open till after midnight on December 31, special pooja is performed for happy new year (christian) and then the temple is closed. Someone jocularly remarked that they do "cake" nivedyam for this pooja.

So, who is now "pushing back" hinduism? Try reading chennai papers also.

 

[sarang]

Even on normal days, some temples, like tirupati are kept open for extended hours for the benefit of devotees who come to the temple in large numbers.

Let us look at the positive side; keeping the temple open on new year day, will at least wean away some from attending drink parties, or sitting in front of the 'idiot box'. Visiting temples on a new year day or any day for that matter is good for the body and soul.

I greeted the new year attending a satsang with bhajans and upadesh.

Shri nannilam,

You are blaming the british. But now in many temples like Tirupati Balaji, Pazhani and all, the garbhagriham is kept open till after midnight on December 31, special pooja is performed for happy new year (christian) and then the temple is closed. Someone jocularly remarked that they do "cake" nivedyam for this pooja.

So, who is now "pushing back" hinduism? Try reading chennai papers also.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

I totally agree with you. I am not blaming the Britishers. They stamped on us
certain things, which our people followed it whether knowingly or unknowingly.
If you see deep South in India, Christianity has spread in vast areas, particularly
on the sea shore sides, Kerala, Tuticorin, Goa, etc, where they had easy access.
There is no rule to keep the Temple after midnight. But some are deviating from
the Agama rules to please the Temple Trustees and to attract some of the Devotees.
Those days, they call its Six Kalams. The last one is Arthajamam. Once the
Arthajamam Pooja is done, the presiding deity is taken to Palliarai and Thallatu
song is sung and the temple is closed until the next morning for Usha Kala puja.
what to do!!

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[sarma-61]

Even on normal days, some temples, like tirupati are kept open for extended hours for the benefit of devotees who come to the temple in large numbers.

Let us look at the positive side; keeping the temple open on new year day, will at least wean away some from attending drink parties, or sitting in front of the 'idiot box'. Visiting temples on a new year day or any day for that matter is good for the body and soul.

I greeted the new year attending a satsang with bhajans and upadesh.

Shri sarang,

According to me, even observing (celebrating?) new year according to the calendar of the Europeans is unnecessary for any Indian. Indians have their own national calendar, and many regional new years. Why should we ape the westerners by keeping awake on 31 December, and then frolick at dead of night?

You are trying a weak justification for this aping. Even if you were at satsang and pravachan, if you consciously greeted the new year in piSAca vELai (midnight), that itself is a great disrespect to our culture, imo.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Sarma-Ji,

Let us not confuse religiously significant days versus the secular holidays. Good or not, the Indian Government is observing the Gregorian calendar which is accepted all over the world as the civil calendar. Nothing wrong in ushering in the New Year, celebrating in a secular fashion.

I do not know about going to the temple though based on this calendar. I would say, if it gives folks a cause to meditate, why not?

Regards,
KRS

 

[sarma-61]

Dear Sri Sarma-Ji,

Let us not confuse religiously significant days versus the secular holidays. Good or not, the Indian Government is observing the Gregorian calendar which is accepted all over the world as the civil calendar. Nothing wrong in ushering in the New Year, celebrating in a secular fashion.

I do not know about going to the temple though based on this calendar. I would say, if it gives folks a cause to meditate, why not?

Regards,
KRS

Shri KRS,

The Indian National Calendar is different from the Gregorian. And we have our own traditional New years and a history of celebrating it in our own way. Then why should we copy westerners with the euphemism "secular"?

Suppose China tomorrow wants all US to celebrate the Chinese New Year according to the chinese custom, will you show the same magnanimity? Why do you want to impose the US hegemony over poor tabras? Is it a case of more pious than God?

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Sarma-61 Ji,

Wikipedia on Indian National Calendar says:

The Indian national calendar (sometimes called Saka calendar) is the official civil calendar in use in India. It is used, alongside the Gregorian calendar, by The Gazette of India, news broadcasts by All India Radio, and calendars and communications issued by the Government of India.

I did not use 'secular' as a euphemism. Last time I looked, India, I thought was a secular country.

Where does 'US hegemony' come from? I don't understand! Just because I suggested that we CAN ALSO celebrate the advent of New Year by the Gregorian calendar, how is it 'imposing some American hegemony?'. By the way, FYI, in the US, large number of Chinese immigrants do celebrate their New Year, as well as celebrate the Gregorian New Year! Come on Sri Sarma Ji, you must admit, this is an absurd statement!

Regards,
KRS

Shri KRS,

The Indian National Calendar is different from the Gregorian. And we have our own traditional New years and a history of celebrating it in our own way. Then why should we copy westerners with the euphemism "secular"?

Suppose China tomorrow wants all US to celebrate the Chinese New Year according to the chinese custom, will you show the same magnanimity? Why do you want to impose the US hegemony over poor tabras? Is it a case of more pious than God?

 

[ozone]

Shri sarang,

You are trying a weak justification for this aping. Even if you were at satsang and pravachan, if you consciously greeted the new year in piSAca vELai (midnight), that itself is a great disrespect to our culture, imo.

Sir,
Which aspect do you consider as disrespect? Staying awake at midnight?
If that were so, why would we consider staying awake on Shivarathiri or Vaikunta Ekasdasi not disrespectful?

 

[renuka]

In my parents house its a strict No No to have any celebrations for Jan 1st cos its not our New Year but very few people here think that way and I have also seen here in Malaysia the temples packed in the morning of Jan 1st.

I dont celebrate Jan 1st but if others want to celebrate with prayer/bhajan its purely up to them cos we dont really need any specific reason to contemplate on God.

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Long long back,I visited Benares(Varanasi) for conducting grant-in-aid audit of 'Kasi Visvavidyalaya" an autonomous university from where our former PM
late L.B.Sastry took his degree.Nearby I saw a temple for 'Bharat Mata'.
One clerical assistant working in the university took me to all places in Varanasi.Initially I thought he was economically poor and has taken up this employment
for survival.I found he was very influential.Subsequently I came to know that he was very close to Late Kamalapathi Tripathi a famous Congress leader of those days.He was asked by the then VC to be in the university just to tell him what was happening.
I remember one night he took me to the famous 'KASI Siva' temple for midnight worship,where a few local people had also come to witness.
I was told that this Pooja is conducted on a daily basis.
So,in my opinion there should not be any objection for common people going to the temple on the midnight of English New Year eve.
In fact,I am looking for a day when Hindus will construct temples for "JESUS" and "Prophet Mohd" or "ALLAH" so that people who presently follow those Faiths shift their faith as Hindus.
In Karnataka,People have constructed Temples for"AIDS" just to awaken the masses and large number of people are attending.
I have read in another forum that someone in India(or an organisation) is already engaged in bringing back to HINDUISM thousands of Christians and Muslims
who left the original Faith (either recently or by their ancestors).
WE have know objection to dress ourselves following the Western culture or take to drinking coffee or Tea which our forefathers never had the opportunity.
Ps:- In our house as an young boy,I remember my mother preparing 'Pasayasam' on January 1st every year.

 

[kunjuppu]

afaik,

the era is now called 'common era' or CE; it so coincides with the old gregorian calendar, but even in canada, we refer year as 2012 CE.

BCE for years number before common era.

these years and days are just numbers and meant for common references throughout the world.

infact the muslims have their own calendar, in the north there is one, and we tamils have our own new year.

sometime ago, there was a movement in islamic countries to change the time to adjust to mecca. but that went no where. we still go by gmt and hours + or minus from it.

i think there is no point in attaching too much importance to these stuff. the originators of the new year in the west, party through the night and welcome the new year with drinks, joy and singing. which i think is a good attitude. prayers too is ok, as canadian hindu temples overflow then.

i, for one, would be happy to be asleep in bed. which is what we did at home, when i grew up.

 

[sarma-61]

Sir,
Which aspect do you consider as disrespect? Staying awake at midnight?
If that were so, why would we consider staying awake on Shivarathiri or Vaikunta Ekasdasi not disrespectful?

Shri sarang,

According to hindu belief system right from the earliest days, a day begins at sunrise. Night makes all living entities, except those which search for prey nocturnally, into dead-like stage (we have, kEtum kr.Nvann akEtave pESO maryA apESase; and pESO marya means muscle-dead). Hence, night time from the 3rd. yaamam in the night till the braahma muhoortham in the next morning (29th. muhoortham counting from morning - this will roughly mean 4:08 to 4:56 AM) is considered to be inauspicious time.

It is true that on Mahasivaratri night Lord Siva is worshipped continuously throughout the night, but that is based on a legend which all believers believe to be absolutely true. But please see, usually the night poojas and naivedyam in Siva temples is generally early and Siva temples are closed after night pooja and people do not enter the temple precincts even so that no disturbance is caused to Siva's meeting with His Sivadoothas and no curse is incurred because we believe, equally strongly (like Sivaratri legend) that Siva is a kshiprakopi bhagavan and the minimum which a person will get is apasmaaram or epilepsy.

Hence, for a true believer there is no comparison between Sivaratri celebrations and New Year's Day bash or satsanga. Satsanga cannot remain satsanga if conntinued beyond the 21st. (yama yaamam - approximately 21:45 hrs.); it will become "dussanga" only. Too much of anything turns bad.

I have seen your challenging our atheist friends here to go and voice their atheistic beliefs in websites of Islam or Christianity. By the same token, do you feel the muslims will buy similar arguments in regard to any of their observances and justifying some modern day misadventure? After all, what do the west-oriented moderns do to invite their new year?— drink and do as much merrymaking including misadventures and, if possible, enjoy sex with some new partner. Is that our goal to be?

 

[sarang]

I will be brief. In our sanatana dharma, we have a philosophy part and a ritual/ practices part. Fortunately, both sectors are vibrant. We have multiple siddhantams which accept the supremacy of veda and upanishads, and interpreted by our acharyas.

We have hundreds of rituals too, some accepted by sastras, and some evolved over a period to meet the conditions of the day. As long as they are not fundamentally against the scriptures, they are allowed; some survive and some do not. In my college days, on shivratri, we stayed all night by seeing all night non-stop movies in a nearby touring theater. Part of the requirement of staying awake was served, and another 25% by watching mythological cinema; two out of four, were routine masala movies.

The pressure or keenness to do something on a new year is there in many people. How to channelise this in religion-specific activities is important. I have seen many people visiting the temple on 1st jan and doing archanas for the welfare of the family.

Shri sarang,

According to hindu belief system right from the earliest days, a day begins at sunrise. Night makes all living entities, except those which search for prey nocturnally, into dead-like stage (we have, kEtum kr.Nvann akEtave pESO maryA apESase; and pESO marya means muscle-dead). Hence, night time from the 3rd. yaamam in the night till the braahma muhoortham in the next morning (29th. muhoortham counting from morning - this will roughly mean 4:08 to 4:56 AM) is considered to be inauspicious time.

It is true that on Mahasivaratri night Lord Siva is worshipped continuously throughout the night, but that is based on a legend which all believers believe to be absolutely true. But please see, usually the night poojas and naivedyam in Siva temples is generally early and Siva temples are closed after night pooja and people do not enter the temple precincts even so that no disturbance is caused to Siva's meeting with His Sivadoothas and no curse is incurred because we believe, equally strongly (like Sivaratri legend) that Siva is a kshiprakopi bhagavan and the minimum which a person will get is apasmaaram or epilepsy.

Hence, for a true believer there is no comparison between Sivaratri celebrations and New Year's Day bash or satsanga. Satsanga cannot remain satsanga if conntinued beyond the 21st. (yama yaamam - approximately 21:45 hrs.); it will become "dussanga" only. Too much of anything turns bad.

I have seen your challenging our atheist friends here to go and voice their atheistic beliefs in websites of Islam or Christianity. By the same token, do you feel the muslims will buy similar arguments in regard to any of their observances and justifying some modern day misadventure? After all, what do the west-oriented moderns do to invite their new year?— drink and do as much merrymaking including misadventures and, if possible, enjoy sex with some new partner. Is that our goal to be?

 

[sarma-61]

I will be brief. In our sanatana dharma, we have a philosophy part and a ritual/ practices part. Fortunately, both sectors are vibrant. We have multiple siddhantams which accept the supremacy of veda and upanishads, and interpreted by our acharyas.

We have hundreds of rituals too, some accepted by sastras, and some evolved over a period to meet the conditions of the day. As long as they are not fundamentally against the scriptures, they are allowed; some survive and some do not. In my college days, on shivratri, we stayed all night by seeing all night non-stop movies in a nearby touring theater. Part of the requirement of staying awake was served, and another 25% by watching mythological cinema; two out of four, were routine masala movies.

The pressure or keenness to do something on a new year is there in many people. How to channelise this in religion-specific activities is important. I have seen many people visiting the temple on 1st jan and doing archanas for the welfare of the family.

Shri sarang sir,

I feel the philosophy and rituals, customs, ways of living and thinking cannot and should not be seen as separate parts like those of a car which can be removed selectively, altered and if fitting, used with such alteration. This is a very serious disrespect that we show to our religion just because there is no central authority or priesthood (priestly class like the Islamic Mullahs) which can impose religious rules on us. What you are saying is just lame justification to do whatever pleases the individual taste. Having allowed up to that level, how then can we find fault with the westernized people among Indians who indulge in many unedifying activities in the name of inviting a New Year?

I also don't agree with you when you say "The pressure or keenness to do something on a new year is there in many people.", and then compress that "New Year" to just one night. But I agree that almost all of us will like to do better, richer, more successfully, in the next coming one year period. All those cannot be done, nor even indicated by just staying awake on 31st. December and then spending the last day of the Tamil (or whatever Indian New Year you follow) sleeping well.This is honestly aping the westerner. And then many of you write passionately about "how to make our children go to our temples more" and that, wonderful!!

If you start calling your neighbour as "appa", what will be the relevance or role of your own appa in your house? Or, do you think it is correct to so call both of them this way?

I don't want an answer from you, but think about it, please.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

The ritual worship and Puja of Lord Shiva continues through the day and night of Maha Shivarathri.
Many devotees stay awake normally and spend the whole night at the Shiva Temple either by
chanting Om Namah Shivaya or singing hymns in the praise of the Lord Shankara. The devotees
who observe Vratham on a Shivarathri Day break it only the next morning after having the Prasadam
offered to them in the Temple after the Pujas. In order to stop the poison getting down to the
stomach HE drank, Lord Shiva was awake through out that night. Maha Shivaratri is celebrated to
remember this event also.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[sarma-61]

The ritual worship and Puja of Lord Shiva continues through the day and night of Maha Shivarathri.
Many devotees stay awake normally and spend the whole night at the Shiva Temple either by
chanting Om Namah Shivaya or singing hymns in the praise of the Lord Shankara. The devotees
who observe Vratham on a Shivarathri Day break it only the next morning after having the Prasadam
offered to them in the Temple after the Pujas. In order to stop the poison getting down to the
stomach HE drank, Lord Shiva was awake through out that night. Maha Shivaratri is celebrated to
remember this event also.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

Shri Balasubramanian sir,

Please see the portion which I have made in bold fonts. I have so far not heard such a legend - about 'haalaahalam' getting neutralized by Siva keeping awakr for one night. Can you kindly provide the scriptural source for this, if necessary you may consult vidwans also. Mahaasivaraatri is celebrated to remember Kannappa naayanaar's devotional pooja in which he is said to have offered his eyes themselves. Since we cannot have that sort of faith or bhakti to Lord Siva, we offer 'bilvam' leaves which has three daLas resembling the three eyes of siva. (thridaLam thriguNAkAram thrinEthram ca...etc.).

In normal days siva temples are believed to be the playground and meeting place for all SivagaNas after the last deepaaraadhana at night, who are easily provoked if any human being disturbs them.