Ancient hinduism VS modern hinduism

[biswa]

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With regards to ISKCON, it was an inner calling.Hard to explain.No one told me anything much about religion at home but there was always the feeling of emptiness at home that some missing link feeling.
There was nothing we lacked but still some thing was missing.

Ms. Geetu,

Welcome and I completely understand your feeling. You do not really need to justify your beliefs even though in this forum you may be asked to defend your faith by both traditionalists and atheists. As long as your spirituality keeps you happy and contented, that is all that matters.

 

[Yamaka]

Dear gh:

I hope you actively participate in this Forum. I like very much your background, and your name means a lot to me.

You don't NEED to say anything if that makes you uncomfortable. You will have patient hearing from me. I assure you. Your RIGHTS will be protected here.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and all others in this Forum.

Y

 

[geetu habibah]

Dear gh:

I hope you actively participate in this Forum. I like very much your background, and your name means a lot to me.

You don't NEED to say anything if that makes you uncomfortable. You will have patient hearing from me. I assure you. Your RIGHTS will be protected here.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and all others in this Forum.

Y

Dear Yamaka,

My name means a lot to you? May be I should not be too harsh on myself anymore.
I used to be uncomfortable with my name.It was a source of lots of problems too.
Everyone used to wonder what my true religion is.

I also read about how you met your wife in your above posts.My parents also used to say some sort of story but I did not actually pay any attention.
For me marriage is much more than a commitment at an individual level.
Its commitment at the level of religion,society and community and also for the future of children we bring forth.

So I never really felt chemistry at an individual level is the most important thing in a marriage.
I feel marriage is more metaphysical.

I am proud to say that me and my brother managed to regain our Hindu status in life.
We know our parents felt let down that we did not turn out secular like them.

I hope I will come across as a person who can motivate others that its never too late to be a true Hindu.

Dear Yamaka, I really cannot accept Happy Thanksgiving greeting because how to rejoice when turkeys die?
That is not my culture too.

Anyway thank you very much for your support in forum for me.
You had mentioned that you are an Atheist but I hope you do not mind me saying this.
It's not always necessary for anyone to have faith in God as long God has faith in us.

Hare Krishna.

 

[Yamaka]

Dear Yamaka,

My name means a lot to you? May be I should not be too harsh on myself anymore.
I used to be uncomfortable with my name.It was a source of lots of problems too.
Everyone used to wonder what my true religion is.

I also read about how you met your wife in your above posts.My parents also used to say some sort of story but I did not actually pay any attention.
For me marriage is much more than a commitment at an individual level.
Its commitment at the level of religion,society and community and also for the future of children we bring forth.

So I never really felt chemistry at an individual level is the most important thing in a marriage.
I feel marriage is more metaphysical.

I am proud to say that me and my brother managed to regain our Hindu status in life.
We know our parents felt let down that we did not turn out secular like them.

I hope I will come across as a person who can motivate others that its never too late to be a true Hindu.

Dear Yamaka, I really cannot accept Happy Thanksgiving greeting because how to rejoice when turkeys die?
That is not my culture too.

Anyway thank you very much for your support in forum for me.
You had mentioned that you are an Atheist but I hope you do not mind me saying this.
It's not always necessary for anyone to have faith in God as long God has faith in us.

Hare Krishna.

Dear gh:

Very nice post.

Yes, your name means a lot to me: I have many Geethas and Habibs as friends and colleagues, here in Houston and Madurai, TN.

You may know the meanings of this name: Lovely (Habib) Celestial Song (Geetha).

Yes, people may have curiosity about this beautiful name. I love this name very much.

I hear you on the importance of marriage at the metaphysical level. People say that myself and my wife speak non-verbally a lot - our body language is quite smooth and romantic. Our eyes sparkle when they meet! LOL

I am happy to know that you have left the Secularism of your parents, and you and your brother found happiness in your Hindu roots. Are you Hindu Brahmins now?

As I wrote earlier, my kids have our full support and love to whatever way they want to pursue in their life... our love to them is totally UNCONDITIONAL.

As I said, my wife is an Agno-Theist Brahmin. You may write about why you want to be Hindu Believer, if you desire to..

I understand that you don't like killing turkeys for the Thanksgiving... Are you a Vegetarian or a Vegan?

Yes, I am an Atheist from age 20. I am a Scientist by profession, I am a Naturalist - I obey the laws of Nature (all the laws of physics, chemistry, biology, medicine, astronomy etc etc.)

How and why would God have faith in an Atheist like me who doesn't worship HIM for the past 40 years?

Cheers.

 

[ShivKC]

Dear gh:

1)As I wrote earlier, my kids have our full support and love to whatever way they want to pursue in their life... our love to them is totally UNCONDITIONAL.


2) How and why would God have faith in an Atheist like me who doesn't worship HIM for the past 40 years?

Cheers.

yams,thou sayest' that!

though, god has given freewill to all humans (may be a mistake of god), but still he loves all his children, like how you love your children unconditionally. to an extend, now you are a bit closer to god.

interestingly, your question on para 2 is answered by yourself on para 1.

 

[geetu habibah]

Dear gh:

Very nice post.

Yes, your name means a lot to me: I have many Geethas and Habibs as friends and colleagues, here in Houston and Madurai, TN.

You may know the meanings of this name: Lovely (Habib) Celestial Song (Geetha).

Yes, people may have curiosity about this beautiful name. I love this name very much.

I hear you on the importance of marriage at the metaphysical level. People say that myself and my wife speak non-verbally a lot - our body language is quite smooth and romantic. Our eyes sparkle when they meet! LOL

I am happy to know that you have left the Secularism of your parents, and you and your brother found happiness in your Hindu roots. Are you Hindu Brahmins now?

As I wrote earlier, my kids have our full support and love to whatever way they want to pursue in their life... our love to them is totally UNCONDITIONAL.

As I said, my wife is an Agno-Theist Brahmin. You may write about why you want to be Hindu Believer, if you desire to..

I understand that you don't like killing turkeys for the Thanksgiving... Are you a Vegetarian or a Vegan?

Yes, I am an Atheist from age 20. I am a Scientist by profession, I am a Naturalist - I obey the laws of Nature (all the laws of physics, chemistry, biology, medicine, astronomy etc etc.)

How and why would God have faith in an Atheist like me who doesn't worship HIM for the past 40 years?

Cheers.

Dear Yamaka,

My humble salutations to you for being so pro active with me who is a total new comer here.

I know the meanings of the names but I always thought that why my dad had a name that meant lovely when his failed to realize the beauty of god?

My brother and I consider ourselves Hindus who are just gopis and gopas dancing in the glory of Lord Krishna.
When thoughts are absorbed in the divine form of Lord Krishna one is a His Dasa(humble servant).
That is enough for me.

My mother used to say I must have been her ancestor reborn because of my love for Lord Krishna.

I feel I was meant to be a Hindu because as a child my father used to feed me and my brother non veg and we would get all sorts of allergy and throw up and we had to be only pure vegetarians since the age of 3.
Lord Krishna was already planning the path for me to thread.Don't you think so?

Me and my brother are both pure vegetarians and we do not consume even garlic and onion and no food is consumed without us offering it to Lord Krishna first.

Good that your wife and you speaks body language and volumes of it but that is just part of the human nature for one who has not transcended Kama and hormonal effect.


I don't really understand you last verse,when you said that "How and why would God have faith in an Atheist like me who doesn't worship HIM for the past 40 years?

All I can say is you have not worship Him is the past 40 years but God has been around much longer and He knows all of us well.

Hare Krishna

 

[Yamaka]

Dear gh:

"I don't really understand you last verse,when you said that "How and why would God have faith in an Atheist like me who doesn't worship HIM for the past 40 years?

All I can say is you have not worship Him is the past 40 years but God has been around much longer and He knows all of us well." gh in post 131

I was only referring to the last part of your previous post: ("God has faith in US")

According to your Belief:

1. How long ago the idea of God has been around?
2. How and why do you say, "He knows all of us well"?

I believe the idea of God in India (in the form of Hinduism) came into existence after the arrival of Sanskrit speaking Vedic People about 3500 years ago (1500 BCE) from Central Asia (60 E and 45 N). Before that, there was no organized religions, but idol worship was prevalent.

Lord Krishna worship came into practice in India after Poet Vyasa's Mahabharata about 2200 years ago (about 200 BCE).
Lord Rama worship came in after Poet Valmiki's Ramayana about 2000 years ago (around the birth of Christ).

As an Atheist, I used to write "All religions were made up by MEN. There is no known Modus Operandi for the God to know all of us and affect us in any way or form".

You may comment on this.

Cheers.

 

[suraju06]

Reference Geetuhabibah's post #131:

Hi Geetu,

I read your this post:

My brother and I consider ourselves Hindus who are just gopis and gopas dancing in the glory of Lord Krishna.When thoughts are absorbed in the divine form of Lord Krishna one is a His Dasa(humble servant).

That is a nice way of explaining our relation with God.

Cheers

 

[C RAVI]

Dear geetu,

I have no words to express my heart content and good feelings, some sort of soothing vibrations, reading all your posts; within myself and here in this forum.

I hardly can find people speaking their heart out with all they have expereinced and believe in GOD/Spirituality. Glad to find you as a happy Hindu.


JAI SHREE KIRSHNA

 

[geetu habibah]

Dear geetu,

I have no words to express my heart content and good feelings, some sort of soothing vibrations, reading all your posts; within myself and here in this forum.

I hardly can find people speaking their heart out with all they have expereinced and believe in GOD/Spirituality. Glad to find you as a happy Hindu.


JAI SHREE KIRSHNA

Thank you Ravi, I am happy that I can be of some good will here.

 

[geetu habibah]

Dear gh:

"I don't really understand you last verse,when you said that "How and why would God have faith in an Atheist like me who doesn't worship HIM for the past 40 years?

All I can say is you have not worship Him is the past 40 years but God has been around much longer and He knows all of us well." gh in post 131

I was only referring to the last part of your previous post: ("God has faith in US")

According to your Belief:

1. How long ago the idea of God has been around?
2. How and why do you say, "He knows all of us well"?

I believe the idea of God in India (in the form of Hinduism) came into existence after the arrival of Sanskrit speaking Vedic People about 3500 years ago (1500 BCE) from Central Asia (60 E and 45 N). Before that, there was no organized religions, but idol worship was prevalent.

Lord Krishna worship came into practice in India after Poet Vyasa's Mahabharata about 2200 years ago (about 200 BCE).
Lord Rama worship came in after Poet Valmiki's Ramayana about 2000 years ago (around the birth of Christ).

As an Atheist, I used to write "All religions were made up by MEN. There is no known Modus Operandi for the God to know all of us and affect us in any way or form".

You may comment on this.

Cheers.

Dear Yamaka,

I took sometime and went through some of your posts here and I feel you have been misunderstood by almost everyone including me when I first read your post in this thread and some other threads.

I can clearly see that you are only disputing the existence of God and the need for religion but you are NOT disputing the existence of Faith.

Faith is the very basis for existence of anything and that can never be measured except by ourselves.That feeling is called God.

 

[sangom]

why this shadow play?

 

[Yamaka]

why this shadow play?

Dear Sangom and others:

I don't know the answer to the question Sangom Sir posed...

Ms. Geetu Habiba and myself close a circle, in a very interesting way:

I was born into a very orthodox religious household, it was very suffocating to me.. then once I became an adult (age 20/21) I proclaimed myself as an Atheist - not believing in the existence of the Super-Natural God, the idea of Janma Poorva Karma and the usefulness and utility of any prayers, poojas and bhajans.

I started my entire life as an Atheist, and marrying an Agno-Theist and having wonderful kids and raising them in a fully Secular home - now both the kids are adult themselves happily living their life.

Ms. Geetu Habiba was born to one such Secular household, her dad is very much like me, I guess. And, she and her brother CHOSE to go back to a religious setting - they both are Hare Krishna devotees.

Thus, we both are part of a cycle! I would very much love to know about her and her brother who belong to my kids generation (age 22-32 perhaps).

As I indicated several times before, my own kids have the RIGHT and freedom to follow any religion and worship any GOD they wish or follow the same path of a Secular life they were born into!

Very interesting to me.

Cheers.

 

[Yamaka]

Dear Yamaka,

I took sometime and went through some of your posts here and I feel you have been misunderstood by almost everyone including me when I first read your post in this thread and some other threads.

I can clearly see that you are only disputing the existence of God and the need for religion but you are NOT disputing the existence of Faith.

Faith is the very basis for existence of anything and that can never be measured except by ourselves.That feeling is called God.

Dear gh:

My stand is as explained in my post #125. Definition is very important at this juncture.. as to what we believe and not believe:

I don't believe in the existence of a Super-Natural Agent called God (Allah, Jesus, Ishwara - Krishna, Rama, Brahma etc); I don't believe in the operation of Janma Poorva Karma (which demands Rebirth and Reincarnation of the Soul) and the usefulness of any prayer, pooja or bhajans.

Also, I believe Religion = A Faith. And Religiosity = Spirituality.

Then people ask "Oh, Y, What's the Guiding Principle or Force in your life? I say my own Conscience and the "inner call".

"What is good and evil for you?" I say that's intuitively felt by your inner personality, which everybody will have in them.

I treat others the exact same way that I expect others treat me: Be reasonable, nice and kind to others.

As we have talked in the other Thread, I believe "God and Religion make otherwise nice people to engage in bad behavior, many times".

Cheers.

 

[happyhindu]

Dear Yamaka and Geetu Habibah,

Very nice and interesting conversation. The way you both converse reminds me how i end up opposing my parents..Not really opposing but just differing in approach, though that does cause some misunderstanding...

Guess the apt song here is Raghupati Raghav Raja Ram...Ishwar Allah Tero Naam, Sabko Sanmati De Bhagvan.....Doesn't matter if you are Ram, Ishwar, Allah, bestow us with peace...

Geetu, am curious. Hope you do not mind me asking you this -- What are your views on caste system?

Jai Shri Krishna Geetu, have a good day.

Y, thanks for the lovely conversation with Geetu here. Its always nice to hear various viewpoints, each with their own convictions.

Regards.

 

[geetu habibah]

Dear gh:

My stand is as explained in my post #125. Definition is very important at this juncture.. as to what we believe and not believe:

I don't believe in the existence of a Super-Natural Agent called God (Allah, Jesus, Ishwara - Krishna, Rama, Brahma etc); I don't believe in the operation of Janma Poorva Karma (which demands Rebirth and Reincarnation of the Soul) and the usefulness of any prayer, pooja or bhajans.

Also, I believe Religion = A Faith. And Religiosity = Spirituality.

Then people ask "Oh, Y, What's the Guiding Principle or Force in your life? I say my own Conscience and the "inner call".

"What is good and evil for you?" I say that's intuitively felt by your inner personality, which everybody will have in them.

I treat others the exact same way that I expect others treat me: Be reasonable, nice and kind to others.

As we have talked in the other Thread, I believe "God and Religion make otherwise nice people to engage in bad behavior, many times".

Cheers.

Dear Yamaka,

I do not disagree with you when you talk about an inner calling guiding you from within.The inner calling is called Chaitanya(Universal Consciousness) what we in ISKCON call Krishna Consciousness.

 

[geetu habibah]

Dear Yamaka and Geetu Habibah,

Very nice and interesting conversation. The way you both converse reminds me how i end up opposing my parents..Not really opposing but just differing in approach, though that does cause some misunderstanding...

Guess the apt song here is Raghupati Raghav Raja Ram...Ishwar Allah Tero Naam, Sabko Sanmati De Bhagvan.....Doesn't matter if you are Ram, Ishwar, Allah, bestow us with peace...

Geetu, am curious. Hope you do not mind me asking you this -- What are your views on caste system?

Jai Shri Krishna Geetu, have a good day.

Y, thanks for the lovely conversation with Geetu here. Its always nice to hear various viewpoints, each with their own convictions.

Regards.

Dear happyhindu,

As a child I have noticed that despite the fact my parents claimed to be secular but my father never failed to mentioned where ever he went that he married a TB.
I also noticed that my mother's face light up when ever she came across another TB and also never failed to tell anyone she is a TB.
I used to wonder if they were secular why the need to mention their caste?

I never think much of caste but I joined TB forum to keep in touch with TB roots not because of caste but just due to the fact that TB's still keep in touch with religion and tradition and I wanted to gain some knowledge in those sections.

Other wise I consider myself a humble servant of Lord Krishna.

 

[sangom]

Ms. Geetu Habiba was born to one such Secular household, her dad is very much like me, I guess. And, she and her brother CHOSE to go back to a religious setting - they both are Hare Krishna devotees.

Thus, we both are part of a cycle! I would very much love to know about her and her brother who belong to my kids generation (age 22-32 perhaps).

My doubt is what if it is not only a mere cycle, but a family itself? The coincidences are too, too, much towards such a conclusion, imho.

And, if my guess is correct, all your atheism and secular bringing up of kids has gone waste; your more silent (less bragging) wife has won!The kids have of course gone off to iskcon, which according to me is a "cult" now slowly being dominated by the white gurujis a.k.a "dasas".

 

[happyhindu]

Dear happyhindu,

As a child I have noticed that despite the fact my parents claimed to be secular but my father never failed to mentioned where ever he went that he married a TB.
I also noticed that my mother's face light up when ever she came across another TB and also never failed to tell anyone she is a TB.
I used to wonder if they were secular why the need to mention their caste?

I never think much of caste but I joined TB forum to keep in touch with TB roots not because of caste but just due to the fact that TB's still keep in touch with religion and tradition and I wanted to gain some knowledge in those sections.

Other wise I consider myself a humble servant of Lord Krishna.

Dear Geetu,

Children are the worst critics of their parents. I tempered down in my rebellious attitude towards my parents, only after i started handling issues with my kids.

It is natural for the older generation to mention caste. And seek belongingness to the culture in which they were raised. However it is also true that culture is an aquirable commodity and an ever-changing commodity (its always been changing with time).

If one mentions his or her own caste, and professes secularism, i feel, there is nothing wrong with it. It means they belonged to a caste and now look forward to raising a secular next generation.

Infact, in India, the reverse is happening. The younger generation is breaking loose and going the secular way, but the older generation parents keep drilling caste ideas into them (and try to tie the kids to themselves in that way).

Your parents have raised you with the freedom to choose your religion, which is a big thing in itself. So i must say the secularism of your parents has won.

If your father had remained a practicing muslim, if he had sent you to madrasas for early education, your mind would have become brainwashed in such a setting. If so, then it is quite likely, such a 'freedom' of choice would not have come your way. That is, you yourself would not have given your mind the freedom to choose. It is indeed very rare to find a father like yours. A truly secular man i wud say.

Similarly, if your mother took you to temples and allowed your mind to be conditioned in certain ways, then too, you would not have given your mind the freedom to choose. Maybe if you examine yourself , you may find this is one of the reasons that influenced you to choose a hindu calling for yourself.

I beleive secularism means giving everyone the freedom of choice. Which is what your parents have done. What you choose for your life is your own calling finally. Perhaps you should thank your parents for the secular home they gave you. I would consider myself very lucky to have parents like yours.

Btw, there are vegetarian arabs who beleive the prophet was vegetarian and hence they are vegetarian. So i don't think diet has anything to do with it. I would agree its an inner calling. Some people heed to this inner calling without the need to give it a name like Krishna Consciousness (like your dad). Some people conceptualise the same feeling in natural ways and abstract ways (as iskon does).

But Geetu, my curiosity has not subsided. Am really keen to know your thots on caste. Would you like to be considered a tambram, and would you feel bad if that acceptance is not shown to you? What are your ideas on caste generally (not related to your parents).

Jai Shri Krishna Geetu. God Bless.

 

[Yamaka]

Dear happyhindu,

As a child I have noticed that despite the fact my parents claimed to be secular but my father never failed to mentioned where ever he went that he married a TB.
I also noticed that my mother's face light up when ever she came across another TB and also never failed to tell anyone she is a TB.
I used to wonder if they were secular why the need to mention their caste?

I never think much of caste but I joined TB forum to keep in touch with TB roots not because of caste but just due to the fact that TB's still keep in touch with religion and tradition and I wanted to gain some knowledge in those sections.

Other wise I consider myself a humble servant of Lord Krishna.

Dear gh:

Nice post.

When we go to functions, I don't normally tell others that I am married to a TB... but, perhaps by looking at her and the way she talks, many would ask me "Are you married to a Tamil Brahmin?"

However, in this Forum, many times I have mentioned that I am an Atheist, but married to a Tamil Brahmin from Trichy, TN, India: The reason being that there were many here thinking why an Atheist would dribble ball in "our court", he has no connection to Brahmins, anyway!

In my view, we can't just separate CASTE from religion -Hinduism- in particular and its traditions. In this Forum, many people strive to do it. I believe the hallmark of Hinduism IS the Caste Hierarchy and the Dharma that flows from it.

You might have heard the term Sanatana Dharma aka Hinduism... if you do, what it means to you? What Dharma is Eternal or Universal to YOU?

Many scholars believe accepting the CASTE DHARMA is the fundamental essence of Hinduism..some here may disagree, I know it.

What's the position of ISOKCON on this aspect of Sanatana Dharma?

Nice talking to you.

Cheers.

 

[Yamaka]

My doubt is what if it is not only a mere cycle, but a family itself? The coincidences are too, too, much towards such a conclusion, imho.

And, if my guess is correct, all your atheism and secular bringing up of kids has gone waste; your more silent (less bragging) wife has won!The kids have of course gone off to iskcon, which according to me is a "cult" now slowly being dominated by the white gurujis a.k.a "dasas".

Dear Sangom:

Believe me, I don't know her at all. I would very much like to know about her family... WE DO NOT BELONG TO THE SAME FAMILY, period.

Yes, there ARE coincidences. She is NOT my daughter - 100% certain.

Cheers.



ps. Sometime ago, someone said Nara = Yamaka! That's also FALSE. Yamaka is a different person living in Houston. Perhaps, Nara lives somewhere in the East Coast of the US.

 

[sangom]

Dear Sangom:

Believe me, I don't know her at all. I would very much like to know about her family... WE DO NOT BELONG TO THE SAME FAMILY, period.

Yes, there ARE coincidences. She is NOT my daughter - 100% certain.

Cheers.



ps. Sometime ago, someone said Nara = Yamaka! That's also FALSE. Yamaka is a different person living in Houston. Perhaps, Nara lives somewhere in the East Coast of the US.

I know Shri Nara through e-mail contact. So I had no doubt that Y may be N. But this was a wrong guess I suppose. I am sorry and apologize to you and GH.

 

[Suku]

We will have to learn to transcend what we have been taught to believe, learn to question and analyze. I am unable to agree that basic sexual desire or lust if you wish to call it that should be considered an enemy of humankind. Brahmacharya is but a concept, a good concept may be, but not something absolutely good. One must remember that the the greatest of the Hindu seers including the Sapta Rishis were not celibates.

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

DearM/s geetu habibah,
Welcome to this Forum.When I was in Chennai,I have seen a boy(friend of my younger sister's son).I did not ask him about his religion,caste, belief etc.I had heard my sister saying that the boy's father is a muslim,mother a tamil brahmin.This boy studied Engineering in Blits,Pilani with my nephew.He was reported to be in good position.I hope you are not from the same family.
Recently I happened to read in another Forum,the life story of a person(born in a rich family)who has joined "Krishna consciousness'(now known as Shri.Ananda Vrindavana Dasa)
and also working as a stock broker in Mumbai Stock Exchange.Since he was not interested to toe the line of his father,he has been declined share in family property.Though,he had a number of opportunities to make quick money in the Stock market,he had refused to be influenced
by such thoughts.He is satisfied to earn whatever he can in a normal manner.
I bow my head to all such noble souls in this world irrespective of their beliefs.

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Some member in another Forum listed the various castes being followed in Christianity,Islam and Sikkism.
I do not know whether this system of grouping people (following a particular faith) has its origin in 'Hinduism'.
P/s:- If some one wants to know the details,I can trace that message and forward the same through E-Mail
after getting E mail ID through PM.