Are Not Tamil Brahmins Tamilians ?

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Iron Age proofs in India

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Age_India

 

[s007bala]

srk

thnx,for siddhars truth perspective.Saint Thiruvalluvar is the greatest of all siddhars from TN.Yet,Valluvar Kottam has become "kaadal Mannu" in T.Nagar.My middle finger to all Kazhagam leaders.

sb

 

[happyhindu]

SRK,

For the first time, i agree with you

They had no use for idol worship coz either idol worship was not prevalent in their times or because they had moved beyond it (the latter seems more true). Also they did not worship any particular God coz they manifested their own consciouseness as Shiva. But currently, siddha schools are not against idol worship, they just seem to have their own path (if God is omnipresent, it cannot be that He is everywhere but not in an idol..so they respect idol worship but are not into it..)..as regards the light and sound, its the very path of yoga, also mentioned by patanjali...the yogis lived it and showed it..according to one yogi, "The pursuit of spirit is not a monopoly, because everyone is born with a spirit. It is in the design of our very nature. And that creator is God." So they encourage everyone on that path, though many drop out because it is so rigorous..

 

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ainkiller:Thankyou HHji and S007Bji, The path is very simple and every one can follow their method by sitting for 2.30mins for meditation.The siddhars are request the every Human and mankind to go to a Master(GURU) and learn the meditation technic and travel(ASTRAL) and enjoy the gimmicks of the wonderful Kendhra's starting from the Third Eye(EYE CENTRE) towards upward regions.Siva Vakiyar says,that Sengalum KarungalumSivandha SadhiLingamum, Sembilum Thravilum, Sivan Eruppar engireer, Unpadham Nindhu Neer Ummy Arindhapin, Ambalam Niryndha Nadher Aadal Padalagume.Meaning: People Claim that the Lord resides in the Statues,made of Temples and the Idols sculpted in Copper ,Brass. After you have attained Self realization, you will realise that GOD is Omnipresent. S.R.K.

 

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:hail:With all the comforts, possessions and pleasures that he has in this world today, man does not seemto be happy. He is not satisfied withhimself nor doeshe derive any real satisfaction from worldly goods.There is no dearth of religious dogmas and moral principles today. Everyman considers himself a follower os some religion or creed. But he finds no haooiness in material wealth and derivs no pleasure from religious practices. Life itself seems insipid to him. With all that he has, the inner feeling of loneliness does not leave him.This is due to the natural inclination of the soul towards its origion. The soul is a part of the lord. So long as it does not merge back into its Source it cannot find true peace. The Saints tell us that worldly wealth, physical beauty and youth are not permannent.Human life is priceless. One does not get it aqgain and again. Human life is the only opportunity to meet the Lord. This alone is the occasion for attaining Salvation. After endlessly going through the 'wheel of eighty-four(the cycle of tranmigration) we have at last got the chance to attain God- Realization.The Saints repeatedly proclaim that we should not let this rare chance slip by. The Saints do not give vain hopes of salvationafter death. The path of the Saints is a 'Cash transaction, and nott an account of future.If we do not behold the Lord while still living in this body, then what hope can we entertain of attaining salvationor meeting the Lord after the death? One who is illiterate during his life cannot become a learned man after death. So Salvation and God-Realization can be attained in very life. S.R.K.

 

[happyhindu]

nice..

like every water body eventually finds its way towards the sea...

but what is the "wheel of eighty-four(the cycle of tranmigration)" you have mentioned?

and could you tell more about the practices of the siddhars?

btw, vedic worship also did not involve idol worship. but i love temple worship and going to temples

 

[s007bala]

re

:hail:With all the comforts, possessions and pleasures that he has in this world today, man does not seemto be happy. He is not satisfied with himself nor doe she derive any real satisfaction from worldly goods.There is no dearth of religious dogmas and moral principles today.

This is your assumption,not Bhagavath Gita Truth,in my opinion.Comforts,possessions,pleasure does make humanity happy.Today can a sanyasi be loitering around nakedly as that is how all humans as shudras (Shudra=entire humanity) are born world over,with the exception of Karna who was born with a Kavacham & Kundalam to Kunti.Therefore even for a supposedly said siddhar he/she is covering his/her modesty,they too love possessing something or the other.

Everyman considers himself a follower os some religion or creed. But he finds no haooiness in material wealth and derivs no pleasure from religious practices. Life itself seems insipid to him. With all that he has, the inner feeling of loneliness does not leave him.This is due to the natural inclination of the soul towards its origion. The soul is a part of the lord. So long as it does not merge back into its Source it cannot find true peace.

True to some extent only.Are you like how you are feeling for others.The atma aka soul is the LORD,who lives within you and outside of you of an hiranyagarbha.

The Saints tell us that worldly wealth, physical beauty and youth are not permannent.Human life is priceless. One does not get it aqgain and again. Human life is the only opportunity to meet the Lord. This alone is the occasion for attaining Salvation. After endlessly going through the 'wheel of eighty-four(the cycle of tranmigration) we have at last got the chance to attain God- Realization.The Saints repeatedly proclaim that we should not let this rare chance slip by. The Saints do not give vain hopes of salvationafter death.

The saints give us a path,with sets of procedures to follow.But they donot gurantee to you anything from time immemorial.Its for an individual to realise 'Para-Brahman' or not realise the LORD.

The path of the Saints is a 'Cash transaction, and nott an account of future.If we do not behold the Lord while still living in this body, then what hope can we entertain of attaining salvation or meeting the Lord after the death? One who is illiterate during his life cannot become a learned man after death. So Salvation and God-Realization can be attained in very life. S.R.K.

The LORD is not someone or something far far far away.The LORD is the in-dweller amongst all in the jagath.Our own body is verily the temple of the LORD,some of us call as 'Hridaya Vaasi'.After death,i hope you mean the death of the body,not the atma ,which is ,aadiyum illai anthammum illai.

sb

 

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Sri HHji, 84lakh Species the God created,and so far 1.25 species identyfyed by Human.4 type of creation, a) andaj from egg,b) from seed,c) from nature changes,eg :Flies,Masquitos, 4) seman: Animals and Humans. Each catagary having nos :According to Karmas every one get rebirths to escape from this one need GURU.Life is a lader we are standing top of lader and we use our 6th sense and go upward If we slip fall down in 84 lakh Trap. S.R.K.

 

[pannvalan]

I recommend these two books in Tamil, for our members.

1. "Viduthalaip Poril Thamizhagam" by Ma. Po. Sivagnanam

2. "Thamizhaga Anthanargal Varalaru" by K. C. Lakshmi Narayanan.

I haven't read the book "Ariyaravadhu? Dravidaravadhu?" by Namakkal Kavignar. If any one tells me where I can get it, I will be grateful.

Even many other non-brahmins like Pasumpon Muthuramalinga Thevar, Rasigamani T.K.C. and Thiru. V. K. have never questioned the roots of Tamil brahmins. In fact, they vehemently criticised the DK and DMK for waging war against Tamil-speaking brahmins and in the process, the great religion Hinduism itself.

That the so called rationalists have been the pioneers in doing so many irrational things is well-known. For instance, worshipping the statues of their mentors, garlanding them, celebrating their birth and death anniversaries, falling on the feet of their political masters in full public view (if media coverage is there, it will be better), smearing 'tilak' with blood on the foreheads of their group/party leader, encouraging self-immolation ... Oh, the list is endless!

Even clandestinely visiting temples, religious leaders, soothsayers, conducting some religious rituals for some intended benefits, conducting parihara-nivarthi pujas and homams and listening to tantriks before some important decisions and steps are taken all will prove beyond doubt that these rationalists are more irrational than any average Tamil Brahmin.

Sadly, even though we come to know of these disgusting and hypocritical behaviours of the so called (self-syled) guardians of Tamil race, through various newspapers, magazines, TV, public meetings and party organs and CDs released by them, we tend to either ignore them or forget them. This generosity or weakness on our part is exploited by them to the hilt.

NOTE: E. V. Ramasamy Nayakkar was a Kannada Balija, not a Telugu. This has been
admitted by himself on various occasions.

 

[s007bala]

re

I recommend these two books in Tamil, for our members.

1. "Viduthalaip Poril Thamizhagam" by Ma. Po. Sivagnanam

2. "Thamizhaga Anthanargal Varalaru" by K. C. Lakshmi Narayanan.

I haven't read the book "Ariyaravadhu? Dravidaravadhu?" by Namakkal Kavignar. If any one tells me where I can get it, I will be grateful.

Even many other non-brahmins like Rasigamani T.K.C. and Thiru. V. K. have never questioned the roots of Tamil brahmins. In fact, they vehemently criticised the DK and DMK for waging war against Tamil-speaking brahmins and in the process, the great religion Hinduism itself.

That the so called rationalists have been the pioneers in doing so many irrational things is well-known. For instance, worshipping the statues of their mentors, garlanding them, celebrating their birth and death anniversaries, falling on the feet of their political masters in full public view (if media coverage is there, it will be better), smearing 'tilak' with blood on the foreheads of their group/party leader, encouraging self-immolation ... Oh, the list is endless!

Even clandestinely visiting temples, religious leaders, soothsayers, conducting some religious rituals for some intended benefits, conducting parihara-nivarthi pujas and homams and listening to tantriks before some important decisions and steps are taken all will prove beyond doubt that these rationalists are more irrational than any average Tamil Brahmin.

Sadly, even though we come to know of these disgusting and hypocritical behaviours of the so called (self-syled) guardians of Tamil race, through various newspapers, magazines, TV, public meetings and party organs and CDs released by them, we tend to either ignore them or forget them. This generosity or weakness on our part is exploited by them to the hilt.

NOTE: E. V. Ramasamy Nayakkar was a Kannada Balija, not a Telugu. This has been
admitted by himself on various occasions.

pannvalan ji

I agree with you about garlanding statues of kazhagam leaders.When MGR came to power as CM in 1977,promptly he removed MUKA's statue in front of Karunanidhi Building in Anna Salai.First for MUKA to build his own statue was a 'wonder' while being alive and the spin that was given then was,MUKA did not have confidence on the younger generation,whether they will honor him or not,so while he himself will have his statue..KHE KHE And this action is very rational ROFL.uke:

I also remember an incident when i had gone for darshanam of Mahaswamigal in Kanchi wherein i was instructed to visit Lord Hanuman's temple in front of the math.Promptly i visited,and had darshan of LOrd Hanuman,but while coming outside the temple,i noticed a small bust like structure which said 'those who believe in god are fools',but i just did not bother and went to the math.I was questioned about the temple of Lord Hanuman and dutifully i replied and thanked profusely for instructing me to visit, to the seva dals of Mahaswamigal.But look at the horrible culture thats prevailing with kazhagam rule.Right in front of the math an atheist bust??This is what flares passion and riots in TN,and hurts sentiments of people.Thank god USA is much cultured and allows minority to worship in temples without all this provocations.

sb

 

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ToAll, D.means deadly, M, means Muttal K,means Kazhagams OR Tirutha Mudiyath Kazhagam. etc. S.R.K.Or We can say like this Thee Mu Ka means Tirunthamataekal kannai.

 

[s007bala]

srk

Ravannan Irundadunalay ,Shri Ramar avatharam nammakku kidaithadhu.Aday pole Ravannan thewai, illai enraaal Shri Ramarukku enna welay uundu ivvulagathil,allava.Idhil yaar nadikkirargal ravannai polay, enru sindhanai seyya vendum.Shri Ramar eka patni maha-purusha avataram.Adarkku naer edirppaga Ravannan pala manaivigaladun santoshamaga vazhndu vandavan.Ravanan Tamizh brahmanan,shiva bhakthan,irrundoom bhagavan avanai asuran(asura gunam ullavan) enru thaan nammakku karpithullar.Idu annaithhum bhagavan udaya leelaigal,yen enrall idu ellam oru muyarchi to teach a lesson in spiritual ways.Enru naan abhiprayam ullavanaga karuthugiraen.nunry.




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sb

 

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Thank you S007 ji, Indian Mythollogical Stories are based upon Every humans day to day life.It reflexed according to their Karmas. God 's creation was based upon every athmas past Karmas a/c.I wish to Quote this from Sri Adi Granth,P658 poem6; vani 129, All epics, the Puranas, and the injunctions of the Vedas. Are within thirty-four letters. After careful thought Vyas declares the spiritual truth. That nothing is equal to the Name of God.Like Ram Naam is called by 4 , one is KAL,another is Dasrtha Raman, another is Time, and The creater. Guru Ravidas says that All men proceed from the same Creator and the same Creater pervades them all. All men, therefore, are equal. All earthen pots are made up of the same clay, The same Creator hath created them all, The same One pervadrth all beings, O Ravidas, The same Pot-maker hath made them all.Darshan 46. From the same drop of the Ocean (of spirituality) all have arisen, Whether one is called a Brahmin or a Shudra. The foolish one knoweth is not,Oravidas, That God is present in all. No one becometh low,O Ravidas, On account of one's birth. Man is turened low by the slime of his lowly actions. D 126. So Ravannan is lowly byactions so get punised by Ram. We are just reading this books but not understanding the real meanings. sorry S.R.K.

 

[s007bala]

re

Thank you S007 ji, Indian Mythollogical Stories are based upon Every humans day to day life.It reflexed according to their Karmas. God 's creation was based upon every athmas past Karmas a/c.I wish to Quote this from Sri Adi Granth,P658 poem6; vani 129, All epics, the Puranas, and the injunctions of the Vedas. Are within thirty-four letters. After careful thought Vyas declares the spiritual truth. That nothing is equal to the Name of God.Like Ram Naam is called by 4 , one is KAL,another is Dasrtha Raman, another is Time, and The creater. Guru Ravidas says that All men proceed from the same Creator and the same Creater pervades them all. All men, therefore, are equal. All earthen pots are made up of the same clay, The same Creator hath created them all, The same One pervadrth all beings, O Ravidas, The same Pot-maker hath made them all.Darshan 46. From the same drop of the Ocean (of spirituality) all have arisen, Whether one is called a Brahmin or a Shudra. The foolish one knoweth is not,Oravidas, That God is present in all. No one becometh low,O Ravidas, On account of one's birth. Man is turened low by the slime of his lowly actions. D 126. So Ravannan is lowly byactions so get punised by Ram. We are just reading this books but not understanding the real meanings. sorry S.R.K.

srk

wahay guru wahay guru wahay guruji bolo
sath naam saath naam saath naam ji bolo
nitya nitya japi ye tera naam ji bolo

rama rama rama rama naam ji bolo
nitya nitya nitya nitya ji naam bolo
krishna krishna krishna krishna naam ji bolo
nitya nitya........
siva siva siva siva naam ji bolo
nitya nitya ......
wahay guru........

sarvam brahmaarpanamastu
tat sat.

 

[pannvalan]

In Telugu, DMK stands for something ... (Happy Hindu, are u aware?)

 

[happyhindu]

No sir am not aware. My telugu is not good either (cannot understand what they say in news), i started learning to read and write only 2 months back..

 

[pannvalan]

Alright, then leave it. It has a bad connotation.

 

[s007bala]

re

Alright, then leave it. It has a bad connotation.

My try in telengu bashai D=donga M=Matladthanu K=Kodukka khe khe

Donga Matladthanu Kodukka=DMK:tongue1:

sb:hat:

 

[pbkhema]

Historically and genetically no one cay when Brahmins came to south India.They came when the Aryan Culture moved south.Genetically as per recent DNA studies you cannot say difinitely that Brahmins or as it is termed in Tamilnadu Aryans are different from the sso called Tamils.All the DNA factors go back to the same origin.
The Sutra e.g. Apathamba has nothing to do with it.Even among present day Brahmins in Tamilnadu all are not followers of Apastamba.Some follow Boudhanya.
Further historically the earliest Vrahmins are supposed to have migrated from Kashmir.Some inscriptions in a old temple near Tirunelveli reveals the fact
BRAHMINS IN TAMILNADU ARE AS MUCH TAMILIANS AS OTHERS IN TAMILNADU

 

[s007bala]

pbkhema

>>Historically and genetically no one ca say when Brahmins came to south India.They came when the Aryan Culture moved south.<<

This premise itself,saying Tamizh Brahmins came to South India by Kazhagams, is wrong.Tamizh Brahmins have been living from the time immemorial in TN.As there is no - adium illai annthamum illai.What science provideds thru data collection,assimilation,theories,facts,.....etc,is valid for some time-period only.Our Ithihasams,Puranams,Shastrams,Scriptures...etc are only 'pramanam' & 'pradanam'.That does not mean science is wrong either.

>>Genetically as per recent DNA studies you cannot say definitely that Brahmins or as it is termed in Tamilnadu Aryans are different from the so called Tamils.All the DNA factors go back to the same origin.<<

Exactly correct,as we all are one and the same spiritually too=advaitham=non-duality.

>>The Sutra e.g. Apasthamba has nothing to do with it.Even among present day Brahmins in Tamilnadu all are not followers of Apastamba.Some follow Boudhanya.<<

In a community,there are bound to be differing threads of opinions,perceptions..etc,so similiarly, Apasthambha Sutra,Boudhyanaya.....etc.I agree with your conclusions.

>>Further historically the earliest Brahmins are supposed to have migrated from Kashmir.Some inscriptions in a old temple near Tirunelveli reveals the fact
BRAHMINS IN TAMILNADU ARE AS MUCH TAMILIANS AS OTHERS IN TAMILNADU <<

Only politicians divide and rule, as they are defacto Kings & Queens,(rule the common folks,) as they don't want to rule by taking the 'saathwic route' and all politicians at least majority of them are of 'tamo gunam' or ignorant mode.Tamizhs are physically close to Africans,in my opinion,therefore Africans settled in TN originally and created Tamizh language over millions of centuries back.So,you are correct to point out,we all belong to TN and are no different from non-brahmin community,except in our personality traits,which veers towards spirituality,more often than not.

sb

 

[rrvvvr]

I have read with interest arguments in this blog. I am a tb brought up in Hyderabad. It was painful to read what the brahmins had to endure in the days of EVR. Thankfully that state doesn't exist now though I read occassional reports in newspapers on Ayodhya mandapam being attacked by hooligans of DK. I once witnessed a meeting at Tambaram by DK people. The language that they used against brahmins with police men too joining the party was disgusting. But I think the mood of the people is not against brahmins. It is only a section of the politicians and filmy people who exploint the tbs. Hopefully tbs will gain more acceptance in days to come, as it is in other states.

 

[rravi237]

Friends.,

I am a 50 year old TB from Srirangam,Trichy.Some forty years ago We

ourselves didn't consider us Tamils.Around that time in our houses NBs will be

referred to as "Tamils" and We "Brahmins".

I think this holds good even now in many of our hearts.As for myself I don't

really care whether I am considered a Tamilian or not.

ravi

 

[T.S.Sankara Narayanan]

Nobody in Andhra Pradesh will say that a Telugu-speaking Brahmin is not a Telugu. In fact N.T.Rama Rao, founder of theTelugu Desam Party & former CM of AP & a KAMMA NAIDU by caste, was thrilled when Telugu Brahmin P.V.Narasimha Rao became the Prime Minister of India & called the latter "TELUGU BIDDA". When P.V.N.Rao contested the Lok Sabha election from the Kurnool constituency in AP as a Congress candidate, N.T.R. did not field his party's candidate against P.V. so as to facilitate a Teluguvaadu's election to the L.S.& his continuation as the PM of India. When V.V.Giri, another Telugu Brahmin, became the President of India, many non-Brahmin Andhras felt elated.

In Karnataka, the Kannada chauvinist VAATAAL NAGARAJ, a non-Brahmin & the President of the anti-Tamil "KANNADA CHALUVALIGARU" Party, described not only former Brahmin CMs of Karnataka GUNDU RAO & RAMAKRISHNA HEGDE as KANNADIGAS, but also called Jayalalitha a "KANNADATHI". No Kannadiga ever says that Kannada Brahmins are not Kannadigas.

In Kerala, not only Nambudiri Brahmins but even Tamil-speaking Iyers who have settled down in Kerala are regarded as Malayalees. Tamil-speaking ROWTHER MUSLIMS who have settled down in Kerala are also accepted as Malayalees.

It is only in Tamil Nadu that Brahmins who speak Tamil at home & think in Tamil are not accepted as "Thamizhar" because of narrow caste interests & consequent blind hatred. They accept even Telugu, Kannada & Urdu-speaking non-Brahmins as Tamilians but will not accept Tamil Brahmins as Tamilians!!! Of course exceptions are there. Naamakkal Kavignar Ramalingam Pillai, a Tamil poet & freedom-fighter, wrote a book entitled "AARIYARAAVADHU DRAAVIDARAAVADHU" in which he had championed the cause of Tamil Brahmins."Thamizh Thendral" THIRU.VI.KA., a Vellala Mudaliar & a Tamil scholar, has opined that all Tamil-speaking people, whether they are Aryans or Dravidians, are Tamilians & regarding Tamil Brahmins as aliens and non-Tamilians will only lead to the destruction of Tamil society.

North Indian Brahmins too are accepted as Hindiwallahs, Bengalis, Gujaratis, Oriyas, Marathis,etc., in their respective states.

:violin:

Sir, I agree to what you say.I am also a one along your list.Just as Dr Kali Muthu (ex Speaker of Tamil Nadu)said even Karunanidhi , also not Tamilan.His ancestors are said to be from Andhra.Like the same way Periyar also from Andhra.Mr Thirumavalavan of vcp party also speaks Telugu at home as Naikkers.So Dont bother .Weather they accept or not Tholkappiar, Nakkeerar of those Days are Brahmins lived in Tamil Nadu 1000s of years ago. They will accept yesterdays Muslims who speaks Urudu at home and uses mantras (Pathias ) in Urudu even today in all Pallivaasals,The useless DK will not say any thing regarding that but critisises only Sanskrit as un Known language,.If Veeramani opens his ugly mouth and critises about Pathias he will be beaten with wornout Chappals by Muslims.Dont bother about these useless people. They are not Universities to give us certificates.

 

[pbkhema]

Just an interesting asid.Anout 40 year ago our ladies used to refer to the 6 yds saree(now the normal one) as Telungu Pudavai and the Madisar Saree as Tamil Pudavai.I have heard my mother and her sisters speaking,
ERGO
All Brahmins in Tamilnadu are Tamilians those who want to bark can bark but the fact is that Brahmins in Tamilnadu are Tamils

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

Friends.,

I am a 50 year old TB from Srirangam,Trichy.Some forty years ago We

ourselves didn't consider us Tamils.Around that time in our houses NBs will be

referred to as "Tamils" and We "Brahmins".

I think this holds good even now in many of our hearts.As for myself I don't

really care whether I am considered a Tamilian or not.

ravi

that sums it all...