Aryan invasion confusion

[Yamaka]

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Hi Renuka:

What's your opinion on "allowing" women to go to the front line of actual fighting in wars in the military?

In the US, we have mixed feelings about this.... some women want to go... and others hesitate!

My view is, if women want AND trained right to go (passing all the rigors of training) it should be possible for them.

In other words, it should purely be voluntary subjected to ability and talent.

What say you?

 

[Yamaka]

Arigato Yamaka,

I really don't know when your wife said she doesn't know..how she knows that Raghy also doesn't know? If you know, you tell me so I will know.

I asked her soon after I got Mr. Raghy's interpretation!

Can you give your interpretation if you know it?

 

[renuka]

Hi Renuka:

What's your opinion on "allowing" women to go to the front line of actual fighting in wars in the military?

In the US, we have mixed feelings about this.... some women want to go... and others hesitate!

My view is, if women want AND trained right to go (passing all the rigors of training) it should be possible for them.

In other words, it should purely be voluntary subjected to ability and talent.

What say you?

I feel anyone who feels they can serve the nation should be allowed to join on voluntary basis..be it male or female regardless of their sexual orientation too.

Dont see any harm in it.

 

[Brahin]

I asked her soon after I got Mr. Raghy's interpretation!

Can you give your interpretation if you know it?

Yamaka,

You Dont Know ???:shocked:

 

[Yamaka]

Yamaka,

You Dont Know ???:shocked:

??????????????!!!

 

[Raghy]

Dear Sri.Yamaka Sir, Greetings.

Of all the posts, I see only Mr. Raghy who helped me to understand the real meaning of that Sanskrit verse (post # 111).. May be he knows the contents of the entire page. Because, just by reading those lines, such interpretation is not possible for me.

I beg to differ with you, please. I do not know Sanskrit. I did not respond to your post #111; I only interpreted the passage in post #106. In my opinion, as also mentioned in post #117, that passage is open to interpretations. I just wrote what ever I interpreted as I was reading that passage in English.

'That'and 'this' can be substituted with anything. Only condition may be, Apples should be paired with Apples; that's all.

After reading some of the discussions, I got curious and checked out the Sanskrit verses. I came across the interpretation given by Swami Dyananda Saraswathy. He is a learned scholar; his interpretation, I found was 42 pages long with a lot of explanations and purports. I haven't the knowledge to discuss about that.

Sir, when you say 'the contents of the entire page', I do not know which page is identified here, please. If that page is in Sanskrit, kindly count me out, please. If that page is in English, kindly provide me the details; I would like to see that page too. Thanks.

Sometimes interpretations and purports may not be in line with the text of the scripture. I and my wife went through only one book in detail, that was Srimad Baghavat Gita. We found our interpretations were quite different to that of some of the authors who translated that scripture. Often times, simple, straight forward interpretations made much sense.

Cheers!

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Sri. Sarma-61

I am quoting from two of your posts.

3. This forum does not tolerate all sorts of opinions. It wants to safeguard all that is cherished by the Tamil Brahmin community and opinions against such beliefs are unwelcome here. And this has been amply clarified by the SM himself here Flaws in Advaita - Real or Perceived?, in the following words:

As you have rightly said, I have the power to throw you out. Please think a bit on this, why I have not done so, when I constantly get PMs from a lot of Forum members here who routinely ask why we are entertaining folks like you, who do not respect our identity as a Brahmin, on the cultural basis?

Respected Super moderator and Shri Praveen sahib, owner of this forum,

I do not know if you act only upon receiving pms or will take cognisance of public abuse of our scriptures as a sufficient reason to caution the member who makes remarks like the above. I want either of you to respond, urgently.

I wanted to respond to your first post. But I did not.

Again and again we see young people coming to this forum with a lot of anguish. They have their own solution to the problems facing the community. But they do not have the inclination/time to peruse the old posts to find out the nature of this forum.

Your first post indicates that you have not understood the nature of this forum. This is to discuss the various aspects of the Tamil Brahmin community. This forum is not for safeguarding the beliefs and traditions of the Tamil Brahmins.

Safeguarding the beliefs and traditions of the Tamil Brahmins is fraught with many problems. The Tamil Brahmins are not a small community with uniform traditions or beliefs. Even the religious forums which claim to do that represent only a small group who are trying to defend their own beliefs. They do not represent the majority of the Tamil Brahmins.

All sorts of opinion are allowed here. The moderator does not moderate any one's opinion. They only moderate personal disputes.

Members make flippant remarks. That is not sacrilege. What is sacrilegious and what is not depend on your point of view.

Your misunderstanding of the nature of the forum has led to a warning from Praveen.

Read the posts in this forum and other forums also. The idea of these forums is to make you understand your beliefs and traditions.

When Milk mixed with water is placed before a Swan, the Swan drinks the milk and leaves the water. Be like a Swan. Accept the good opinions and reject the useless ones. It is your choice. Then some posts are for making you think.

 

[Yamaka]

Dear Sri.Yamaka Sir, Greetings.



I beg to differ with you, please. I do not know Sanskrit. I did not respond to your post #111; I only interpreted the passage in post #106. In my opinion, as also mentioned in post #117, that passage is open to interpretations. I just wrote what ever I interpreted as I was reading that passage in English.

'That'and 'this' can be substituted with anything. Only condition may be, Apples should be paired with Apples; that's all.

After reading some of the discussions, I got curious and checked out the Sanskrit verses. I came across the interpretation given by Swami Dyananda Saraswathy. He is a learned scholar; his interpretation, I found was 42 pages long with a lot of explanations and purports. I haven't the knowledge to discuss about that.

Sir, when you say 'the contents of the entire page', I do not know which page is identified here, please. If that page is in Sanskrit, kindly count me out, please. If that page is in English, kindly provide me the details; I would like to see that page too. Thanks.

Sometimes interpretations and purports may not be in line with the text of the scripture. I and my wife went through only one book in detail, that was Srimad Baghavat Gita. We found our interpretations were quite different to that of some of the authors who translated that scripture. Often times, simple, straight forward interpretations made much sense.

Cheers!

"Sir, when you say 'the contents of the entire page', I do not know which page is identified here, please. If that page is in Sanskrit, kindly count me out, please. If that page is in English, kindly provide me the details; I would like to see that page too. Thanks."

Dear Raghy:

I meant that you perhaps knew the contents of entire page that this particular verse is, giving you the context.

I only compared what Mr.tks gave as the literal meaning of the verse with your explanation of the verse.

Yours contained matters of love and compassion - such sentiments were totally absent in the literal translation of Mr. tks.

Then I assumed that it needs the context, which perhaps you knew when you wrote to me.

Now, I realize you didn't know the context; then how did you arrive at that explanation?

I hope my question is clear..

Thanks

Regards

Y

 

[Raghy]

Dear Sri.Yamaka Sir, Greetings.

To your information, I just don't believe any of the Organized Religions as prescribed by the Holy Books like Bible, Koran, Vedas or Torah.

What I told Renukka was, I believe that Prophets Muhammed and Jesus did live in this planet with flesh and blood, while I don't know about Lord Rama, Lord Shiva or Lord Brahma, and that I am searching for some historical evidence. I ask for help, historically speaking!

I also said that Muhammed and Jesus DID not know when they were alive that Organized Religions of Islam and Christianity, respectively would be started under their name by their followers! As I recall, it took decades after their death for these religions to spring up to dominate the masses! lol

Sir, Mohammad knew he was starting an organised religion. He dictated Quran to the scribe. He laso instructed to his successor that there can be no other religion present other than Islam in Arabia. He also wanted to stop any more person to start a competitive religion; so, he declared himself as the 'last prophet'. Only the Hadith were written after the death of Muhammad.

Some sciptures written in Aramic and Arabic were enough for you as historical evidence to believe that Jesus and Muhammad lived in flesh and bone. How ever, it is hard for you take Ramayana and Mahabharata as historical evidences to believe Rama and Krishna lived in flesh and bone. Personally, I don't see that as fair; that is Sowbagyavathy Renuka's grivance too.

There may be historical evidence, but not identified. Here is something on Dwaraka - YouTube - ‪Ancient Aliens - Underwater Worlds Proof Full Episode HD‬‏ Kindly watch from 28.0 in that video, please.

There are people who take Ramayana and Mahabharata as history narrations and believe Rama and Krishna existed in flesh and bone. I think, their belief should be rspected.

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

Dear Sri.Yamaka Sir,

...Now, I realize you didn't know the context; then how did you arrive at that explanation?

I hope my question is clear..

Yes, the question is clear. I did not know any context; I did not require any contaxt. That passage was full in itself. As I mentioned before, as I was reading the passage in English, I felt that passage was self explanatory. I only responded to the comment 'snake oil sales' since I did not see that passage as 'snake oil'. It made a lot of sense to me; I just wrote them down. In fact, I can apply the same passge to brahman, sex, social grouping etc.

Love and compassion is a great gift from nature; I don't have a 'personal God' as such. So, initially I wrote about food, then I wrote about love and compassion. These are quite valuable for me. Hope I have explained.

Cheers!

 

[kunjuppu]

After acting in a nursing role, I think Vidya Balan should act as a teacher in a film. That way she will get to slap a couple of the boys in return for Parineeta.

Now for the flip side of the argument, how come only boys are usually subject to physical punishment while the girls go scot-free? I personally disagree with corporal punishment, but shouldn't we have equal treatment there as well?

folks,

Are we seeing a vidya balan bashing group here? Hee hee!!

Seriously folks, I saw parineeta about 6 months back, and got hooked. Vidya has a magnificient entry there, and overshadows saif right through the movie,

The lady has had her share of disappointments re tamil Malayalam offers, and probably was destined to commercials and hindi soaps, when parineeta happened. And after that, a bit role in guru, and nothing really till ishqiya. After that Jessica lal, paa and a full comedy role in munna bhai.

Vidya (along with priyanka chopra) is one of the few female actors who can carry a movie on their own. People go to watch a movie because of vidya’s acting, and not on her looks, though even on that front she tops most of her contemperories.

I am waiting with eagerness for two forthcoming movies kahani and dirty movie, which is a biopic of silk smitha. Vidya bloomed late (25 at parineeta) and it is unfortunate that the shelf life of female actors are short when compared to their male counterpart. At 33, I am sort of sad, that her prime acting years are numbered.

There was once upon a time when tambrams looked down on cinema acting. Nobody would give their sons or daughters to folks in the cine field, because of their supposedly ‘loose morals’. S.balachander, the veena guy, even though was hooked on movie making, publicly mocked it in the most vile terms (which I thought was hypocracy). Today, I think, the attitudes have changed. I have lost count of tambram guys and girls in the movie industry, all over india.

A little titbit here: about 10 years ago, one of our friends here, was on the lookout for girl varan for their Canada brought up son. One of the girls considered was vidya balan, whom this guy refused, as he did not want a wife from the showbiz. Good thing that the varan failed, for this guy was a good catch by pattar standards, and had vidya been accepted, bollywood would have lost a star.

 

[Brahin]

I am wondering can Vidya Balan match the sex appeal of Silk Smitha?

 

[kunjuppu]

I am wondering can Vidya Balan match the sex appeal of Silk Smitha?

we can find that out when 'dirty movie' is released

 

[Yamaka]

Dear Sri.Yamaka Sir, Greetings.



Sir, Mohammad knew he was starting an organised religion. He dictated Quran to the scribe. He laso instructed to his successor that there can be no other religion present other than Islam in Arabia. He also wanted to stop any more person to start a competitive religion; so, he declared himself as the 'last prophet'. Only the Hadith were written after the death of Muhammad.

Some sciptures written in Aramic and Arabic were enough for you as historical evidence to believe that Jesus and Muhammad lived in flesh and bone. How ever, it is hard for you take Ramayana and Mahabharata as historical evidences to believe Rama and Krishna lived in flesh and bone. Personally, I don't see that as fair; that is Sowbagyavathy Renuka's grivance too.

There may be historical evidence, but not identified. Here is something on Dwaraka - YouTube - ‪Ancient Aliens - Underwater Worlds Proof Full Episode HD‬‏ Kindly watch from 28.0 in that video, please.

There are people who take Ramayana and Mahabharata as history narrations and believe Rama and Krishna existed in flesh and bone. I think, their belief should be rspected.

Cheers!

Dear Raghy:

1. Muhammed was dead against the Pagan worship that was prevalent at that time in Arabia. Once he got "revelations" he started talking vocally about the "bad practices" people have and started arguing in very poetic Arabic (please remember, he was a very illiterate man, and for his "friends and observers" his talking and arguing in poetic Arabic was a very pleasant surprise).

2. Whatever he said to his followers were transmitted to others in the region by words of mouth and he became a prominent person; some group of people did not like him... his opponents drove him out of Mecca to Medina; he got the massive support of people there, and he came back to Mecca to regain entry to his place of birth.

3. After his death, his followers formed the Caliphate and after several decades, "the words of mouth" were written down as Holy Koran, which has plenty of interpolations, fantasies and outright lies which Muhammed never talked about... one of them here -

The "holiest passage" in Koran was Muhammed's pilgrimage to Jeruselam and from there to the Heaven and Hell for a visit... this he did it in a very short time like an overnight travel... this is quite IMPOSSIBLE.. at that time, the mode of transportation was camel ride... unless one travels by a super charged automobile, no one can reach Jerusselam from Mecca over night! Therefore, I believe this is a FANTASY written by one of his followers...

Muhammed's purported visit to Heaven where he saw lots of poor people, and he saw mostly women, rich people in the Hell is just a fabrication.... these are all the interpolations his followers inserted to make the story interesting.

Such stories are plenty in Bible and other Holy Books, I understand.

4. In my mind, Ramayan is the brain child of Valmiki who showed his literary prowess to describe the life of Lord Rama and his struggle to get Goddess Sita - he only knows how true it was, and how much is a pure FANTASY.

Same for Viyasa's Maha Bharat...

Mind you, this is what many of the Non-Believers think.... but for Believers every word of these two Great Epic Masterpieces is TRUE and HOLY!

Cheers.

Regards

Y

 

[Yamaka]

Dear Sri.Yamaka Sir,



Yes, the question is clear. I did not know any context; I did not require any contaxt. That passage was full in itself. As I mentioned before, as I was reading the passage in English, I felt that passage was self explanatory. I only responded to the comment 'snake oil sales' since I did not see that passage as 'snake oil'. It made a lot of sense to me; I just wrote them down. In fact, I can apply the same passge to brahman, sex, social grouping etc.

Love and compassion is a great gift from nature; I don't have a 'personal God' as such. So, initially I wrote about food, then I wrote about love and compassion. These are quite valuable for me. Hope I have explained.

Cheers!

Dear Raghy:

I fully understand you NOW... for Believers anything is possible: THAT one verse CAN apply to brahman, sex, social grouping, love and compassion... and eating a buffet....etc etc.

Peace be with you.

Regards

Y

 

[Raghy]

Dear Raghy:

I fully understand you NOW... for Believers anything is possible: THAT one verse CAN apply to brahman, sex, social grouping, love and compassion... and eating a buffet....etc etc.

Peace be with you.

Regards

Y

Dear Sri.Yamaka, Greetings.

Sir, I don't know if you fully understand me now. I am not a believer; most members in this forum know that. The interpretation I wrote was my personal understanding of the passage. My personal application of that passage has not anything to do with 'believing' or 'the lack of it'. There is no need to mention about 'believers' here, please. Thanks.

Peace be with you too.

Cheers!

 

[Yamaka]

Dear Sri.Yamaka, Greetings.

Sir, I don't know if you fully understand me now. I am not a believer; most members in this forum know that. The interpretation I wrote was my personal understanding of the passage. My personal application of that passage has not anything to do with 'believing' or 'the lack of it'. There is no need to mention about 'believers' here, please. Thanks.

Peace be with you too.

Cheers!

Fine... here is a small narration of "Personal Understanding of People and Fear" -

When I was in graduate school, I used to work very late in the night and return to the hostel around midnight -1 am; I needed to walk through about 2 miles of deserted snake and scorpion infested rough road..During daytime everybody walked on that route...but you wouldn't see anybody after the dusk..

Personal understanding for most students in the hostel was that ghosts often roamed around in that area, similar to stories in IIT Madras and Loyola Hostels...most believed that I would be a dead meat one of these days! My friends cautioned me of the imminent danger awaiting me during my return to the hostel!

I told all the hostel inmates, "I just don't care of being killed by the ghosts... I will continue to do my job.. you please wait and see.... and I don't believe in ghosts... they are all in your mind"

This happened about 35 years ago... they are still waiting for the ghost to kill Yamaka... the Yama in him! Lol

Cheers.

 

[Raghy]

Dear Sri.Yamaka Sir,

1. Muhammed was dead against the Pagan worship that was prevalent at that time in Arabia. Once he got "revelations" he started talking vocally about the "bad practices" people have and started arguing in very poetic Arabic (please remember, he was a very illiterate man, and for his "friends and observers" his talking and arguing in poetic Arabic was a very pleasant surprise).

2. Whatever he said to his followers were transmitted to others in the region by words of mouth and he became a prominent person; some group of people did not like him... his opponents drove him out of Mecca to Medina; he got the massive support of people there, and he came back to Mecca to regain entry to his place of birth.

3. After his death, his followers formed the Caliphate and after several decades, "the words of mouth" were written down as Holy Koran, which has plenty of interpolations, fantasies and outright lies which Muhammed never talked about... one of them here -

The "holiest passage" in Koran was Muhammed's pilgrimage to Jeruselam and from there to the Heaven and Hell for a visit... this he did it in a very short time like an overnight travel... this is quite IMPOSSIBLE.. at that time, the mode of transportation was camel ride... unless one travels by a super charged automobile, no one can reach Jerusselam from Mecca over night! Therefore, I believe this is a FANTASY written by one of his followers...

Muhammed's purported visit to Heaven where he saw lots of poor people, and he saw mostly women, rich people in the Hell is just a fabrication.... these are all the interpolations his followers inserted to make the story interesting.

You wrote down the above 3 points as if they are historical facts! It is quite fascinating!

Point 1 - What was the historical evidence for the 'revelations', please? It was only Muhammad's words. How do we know Muhammad was illeterate? I read atleast two Shaih ahadith that said otherwise.

Point 2 - At Mecca, it was Muhammad who said he did not feel safe. He was talking against the religion of Meccans for 13 long years before he said he was feeling threatened. Nobody asked him to migrate to Medina; He did on his own and some of his followers went with him. Attacking the caravans belonging to Meccans started after that.

Point 3 - Quran contained the supposed revelations by Gabriel. It was not the word of men. As it was revealed, Muhammad had them scribed down. Some of the verses came down for Muhammad's personal convenience too. Only the Ahadith were word of men; but, they had to be coroborrated by many sources before becoming Shahid.

Muhammad spoke about Miraj as per Shahid Ahadith and confirmed by Quran. It was not a fantasy of one of the follower or an interpolation.

4. In my mind, Ramayan is the brain child of Valmiki who showed his literary prowess to describe the life of Lord Rama and his struggle to get Goddess Sita - he only knows how true it was, and how much is a pure FANTASY.

Same for Viyasa's Maha Bharat...

Mind you, this is what many of the Non-Believers think.... but for Believers every word of these two Great Epic Masterpieces is TRUE and HOLY!

Many non-believers think, the first 3 points are just fantasy, just a political game shrouded in the name of religion. When you believe the first 3 points as historical facts, I don't think you have any moral ground to criticise the believers in point #4.

Cheers!

 

[Yamaka]

Dear Sri.Yamaka Sir,

You wrote down the above 3 points as if they are historical facts! It is quite fascinating!

Point 1 - What was the historical evidence for the 'revelations', please? It was only Muhammad's words. How do we know Muhammad was illeterate? I read atleast two Shaih ahadith that said otherwise.

Point 2 - At Mecca, it was Muhammad who said he did not feel safe. He was talking against the religion of Meccans for 13 long years before he said he was feeling threatened. Nobody asked him to migrate to Medina; He did on his own and some of his followers went with him. Attacking the caravans belonging to Meccans started after that.

Point 3 - Quran contained the supposed revelations by Gabriel. It was not the word of men. As it was revealed, Muhammad had them scribed down. Some of the verses came down for Muhammad's personal convenience too. Only the Ahadith were word of men; but, they had to be coroborrated by many sources before becoming Shahid.

Muhammad spoke about Miraj as per Shahid Ahadith and confirmed by Quran. It was not a fantasy of one of the follower or an interpolation.

Many non-believers think, the first 3 points are just fantasy, just a political game shrouded in the name of religion. When you believe the first 3 points as historical facts, I don't think you have any moral ground to criticise the believers in point #4.

Cheers!

Hello Raghy:

Please remember, what I write is my POV only: I fully expect hundreds of version of events personally understood by "Non-Believers"

1. I compare Ramayan of Valmiki to Mani Ratnam's "Raavan"
2. I compare Koran and Bible to Mani Ratnam's "Guru" and "Iruvar".

The former is total FANTASY of the author/screen play writer, while the latter is a FANTASY based on some historical facts.

Both Valmiki and Mani are very sophisticated artists who can say and do anything to make their trade very interesting....

Probably, by writing my POV like this, I may be "rubbing the people at the wrong side" or "touching the raw nerve", which, if it happens is purely accidental...

If I may, I want to move our discussion to another thread, as this is labelled as "Aryan Invasion - Confusion"!

Take care.

Peace...

Regards

Y

 

[Nara]

....Many non-believers think, the first 3 points are just fantasy, just a political game shrouded in the name of religion. When you believe the first 3 points as historical facts, I don't think you have any moral ground to criticise the believers in point #4.

Dear Raghy, the way I read Y was that there is quite persuasive historical evidence that Mohammed existed as a real live person. So is the case with Jesus, may be less, but sufficient to be plausible. These do not mean all that is claimed in their names by their followers are indisputable historical facts.

On the contrary, the historical evidence for Rama and Sita having been real live people is paltry, if not zero. It is not unreasonable to suspect that Ramayana is nothing but fiction, though may be reflection of some historical trends, like perhaps Aryan tribes defeating and pacifying locals.

In any case, IMO, whether these religious beliefs are rooted in a real live historical figure, or fictional characters of an epic story really does not matter. All these religions, on balance, have caused more harm to humanity than good. Whatever good some individuals may have derived has come at a tremendous cost.

My favorite question in this context is, what one good thing that human beings will be deprived of unless there was religion? Another variation of the same theme is -- it takes religion to make an otherwise good person, act badly.

Cheers!

 

[Yamaka]

Dear Raghy and Renuka:

I want to remind you that my post #164 will be taken as "blasphemous and sacrilegious" by Fundamentalist Islamist... particularly the item # 3 (Prophet Muhammed's pilgrimage to Jeruselam and his visit to Heaven and Hell etc)

Nevertheless, I stand by my view there.

This should indicate to you that I don't have an agenda to attack Ramayanam! I want to see what happened historically and what could be REAL and what could a MYTH... that's all. Repeating again, it's all my POV....

Thanks.

Peace.

p.s If OBL is around, a Fatwa would have been issued already to take my head off! But, I just don't need my head anyway!! LOL.

 

[Yamaka]

What's Revelation or Eureka Moment or the Result of Meditation? - A Neuro-biological View

History says that Lord Buddha got Revelation under a Tree or Prophet Muhammed got Revelation in a Cave near Mecca....and many Scientists say they got that Eureka Moment suddenly one day! Probably, this is what's happening -

1. Our Sensory neurons in the prefrontal cortex is the site of abstract thinking and imagination. We have billions of sensory neurons synapsing among themselves creating what are called Neuro-circuits; each idea has a specific circuit meaning electrical pulse travel through specific sensory neurons.

2. When someone focuses on a particular subject very intently laser-like, there appears novel neuro circuits giving the person "new idea" not known to the person before.. the idea could even be something no one else had before... this is what's called my Eureka moment and suddenly I say "Oh, now I get it".

3. Whether this happens to all the people? It could... in fact, this is what's happening whenever you "learn new things"; some people will never get it, others get it often... what determines this is still a mystery: a genetic component is there for sure.

4. It appears to Lord Buddha and Prophet Muhammed very profound "new ideas" sprang up - meaning fabulously fantastic neuro circuits formed spontaneously when they were under that Tree or in that Cave...

So, to me, the name of the game is how to get novel neuro circuits that illuminate inside my pre-frontal cortex!

Neuroplasticity is another name for this game in Neuro-biology..

Cheers.

ps: For some persons, after Meditation only confusion escalates and nothing productive happens... one of the pre-requisites for Eureka Moment is to have an Open Mind to receive it! As the saying goes, when the opportunity knocks you must be ready to open the doors! Lol

 

[renuka]

Yamaka..

Now I get a whiff of fear in you LOL!!!!!!

I didnt see this types of disclaimer before whenever you gave you POV for Ramayan and Mahabharat.

Yamaka Yamaka was saying about Ramayana,
Had no fear just like King of Lanka.. Ravana,
When Yamaka spoke about some Firangi Purana,
He became scared of his head thanks to Osama.

 

[Raghy]

Dear Sri.Nara, Greetings.

Dear Raghy, the way I read Y was that there is quite persuasive historical evidence that Mohammed existed as a real live person. So is the case with Jesus, may be less, but sufficient to be plausible. These do not mean all that is claimed in their names by their followers are indisputable historical facts.

All the evidences not withstanding, still one needs an element of faith to believe that Muhammed existed. That can't be denied. Enquiry about existence of Muhammed in this thread is not relevant to the subject in discussion. But that was brought in.

It does not matter if one does not believe Rama and Krishna existed. But in this context, existence of Hindu figures are questioned, where as existence of Muhammed and Jesus is accepted as historical fact.

I see this as 'egging the forum'. Even If Rama and Krishna existed in the past, I wrote in this same forum many times, that I would see those figure heads as Kings who ruled at that point in time and no more. But, I felt, deliberate egging should not go unchallenged.

About Muhammed, the information provided were not correct either. In post #168, I clearly showed the errors in the three points mentioned by Sri.Yamaka.

Sri.Yamaka's own admission, he is seeking 'historical facts' that confirms the existence of Rama and Krishna. He does not know for sure, they did not exist. In this situation, he has no reason to egg persons who believe the existence of Rama and Krishna. Leave alone Rama and Krishna, often times I have seen three random bricks from the road side get picked up, washed, tumeric powder appiled, Kumkum applied and kept in the standing postion...presto! we have a place worship! That is the belief for some people. Why should such belief be criticised if does not offend others? So, sincerely I don't see the reason for this unwarrented egging.

On the contrary, the historical evidence for Rama and Sita having been real live people is paltry, if not zero. It is not unreasonable to suspect that Ramayana is nothing but fiction, though may be reflection of some historical trends, like perhaps Aryan tribes defeating and pacifying locals.

I am not arguing Rama and Krishna were real figures; my argument is, how can one apply different yard stick to different religions? That's all.

In any case, IMO, whether these religious beliefs are rooted in a real live historical figure, or fictional characters of an epic story really does not matter. All these religions, on balance, have caused more harm to humanity than good. Whatever good some individuals may have derived has come at a tremendous cost.

I am in agrrement with this.

My favorite question in this context is, what one good thing that human beings will be deprived of unless there was religion? Another variation of the same theme is -- it takes religion to make an otherwise good person, act badly.

I agree. We have seen evidences a plenty for this.

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

Dear Raghy and Renuka:

I want to remind you that my post #164 will be taken as "blasphemous and sacrilegious" by Fundamentalist Islamist... particularly the item # 3 (Prophet Muhammed's pilgrimage to Jeruselam and his visit to Heaven and Hell etc)

Nevertheless, I stand by my view there.

This should indicate to you that I don't have an agenda to attack Ramayanam! I want to see what happened historically and what could be REAL and what could a MYTH... that's all. Repeating again, it's all my POV....

Thanks.

Peace.

p.s If OBL is around, a Fatwa would have been issued already to take my head off! But, I just don't need my head anyway!! LOL.

Sri.Yamaka Sir, Greetings.

If OBL was alive, he would not have issued any fatwa. Fatwas are issued by Ulemas, not by Emirs.

You are over estimating your own writings. Item #3 in post #164 is nothing to warrant a fatwa. Fatwas are not issued willy nilly. There should be good reasons, enough reasons for a fatwa to be issued. Secondly, a fatwa is only an opinion; not an order. Resons that would warrent fatwas are - Insulting the prophet; offending quran; causing effence to the Dean of Islam. You haven't dne anything like that.

Once my name was suggested for issuing fatwa.That suggestion was not taken up. My phone number was traced and I was warned.

Cheers!