Brahmin Community - Disintegrating by settling abroad !!

[renuka]

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I was just referring to the similarity of lifestyles certainly not "comparing" the religions. !!

Dear JK,

In that case why you left out muslims,buddhist, etc..
Even they do the same like everyone else.

 

[renuka]

Hi Renuka,

Let me repeat again !!. Pl look at the 2nd, 3rd gen kids of Indian immigrants !!

you re referring to the 1st gen like you who are all rooted in our culture. Pl look at the kids of those who migrated in 50s/60s/70s like Bobby Jindal, Nick Halley !!

Cheers,
JK

Dear JK,

I am not 1st generation..my paternal grandad had a book about our ancestors and as far as I know my elder brother is the almost the 10th or more generation out here.
My ancestors have come long back to Malaya when the Hindus settled down at
Bujang Valley at North of Malaysia which has a Hindu temple dated some 1500 years old.


Bujang Valley - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Jaykay767]

Dear JK,

In that case why you left out muslims,buddhist, etc..
Even they do the same like everyone else.

Agreed !

 

[Jaykay767]

Dear JK,

I am not 1st generation..my paternal grandad had a book about our ancestors and as far as I know my elder brother is the almost the 10th generation out here.
My ancestors have come long back to Malaya when the Hindus settled down at
Bujang Valley at North of Malaysia which has a Hindu temple dated some 1500 years old.

Bujang Valley - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hi Renuka,

I am specifically referring to the western countries.

In the case of Malaysia, Srilanka, they have a very large Tamil Population hence they continue the traditions, & they will continue 100/200 yrs from now !!

But if you kids, grand kids, great grand kids move away from malaysia & settle in USA, then this culture will "most likely" be lost !!

Regards,
Ganesh

 

[vgane]

When we look at culture my grandfather used to sport a kudumi & pancha gajam..My grandma sported a madisar in a village..When my father moved to Chennai he shifted to pant & shirt as was the norm..He does Sandhayavandanam even today 3 times a day...Mother does not wear a madisar daily but only for occasions..

I live outside TN ...I am not doing Sandhyavandanam regularly...I do not display my religious symbols zealously but I am very religious minded...Myself & my wife believe in going to temples, following the rituals and celebrating all our Festivals. I am at ease in a Veshti as much as I am with Kurta, pyjama or even sporting the Levi's jeans...So our definition of culture is getting changed...May be we have shed some of the visible external paraphernalia associated with our religion but we follow the core to a large extent within India

However when we migrate or move to foreign shore especially to the West (USA , Europe etc) we are shedding our traditions to a large extent (Is it because of no inhibitions in foreign land) which result in us loosing the heritage of the land...I think the ball is in the court of the TB living outside the country to take some action...Renukaji has mentioned about religious/spiritual classes that her father conductsfor Indians in Malaysia...May be we take a cue from that...The core of our culture gets vitiated in a foreign land due to cultural onlsaught...We need to take some proactive steps so that core is intact

 

[C RAVI]

My dear Ravi,

I believe in the Culture that makes one a true human being.
You are qouting me out of context.
I never said I find that irritating cos I was only under the impression that sharing the milk and fruit is a private affair like what it is shown in the movies.

Ravi BTW I think you and I have a different understanding of culture.
As far as I know people tend to view culture outwardly.
I will give you an example:

In Jan 2011 when I was in India., I remember buying some small key chains and ganesha idols from a stall run by a beautiful tamil lady.
I think I said this before in forum.

Ok..she asked me my name and I told her.
She then even asked me if I was married and I said yes.
She asked me my son's name and I said Varun.
First she thought I was from Delhi(god knows why she thought that) but when I spoke to her in Tamil she was very excited.

She then told me that she is from Tiruvannamalai and asked me if I even knew where that was.
I said yes I knew and its famous for Arunchaleswar Temple.
And she was OMG you actually know something.
I was thinking she was lucky that I didnt tell her that the famed Swami Nithyananda was from Tiruvannamalai too!!!LOL

Ok next she said "let me test you" and she said 'do you even know the meaning of your son's name Varun"

So I thought to myself..that I have to keep my answers simple obviously I dint want to start from the Root word (Vaari) denoting water blah blah blah so I told her Varun is the name of Varuna Bhagawan.

Then I told her I wanted to buy a shawl that had OM Namah Shivaya on it and she was"you read Hindi?"

I told her well thats actually Sanskrit on that shawl.

Then when I was leaving she asked me this 'You know more than what I expected but how come you are not wearing a saree and a pottu and Thali?"

I didnt tell her anything but just laughed to myself..that people judge a person based on outward appearance and not what a person is within.
So let her have the last word cos that will make her happy.

Ok Ravi now back to you..see culture is not always about who does what and who doesnt do this or that.
Being a PIO doesnt mean that culture is getting eroded.

Some of us might be on the beach in a bikini but still thinking of God when we take a swim in the ocean.


Culture is all about being a true human being and I have come to realize that being NON JUDGEMENTAL is a good start to be a true human even though its not easy.

I might not follow certain rituals in life like Pottu,Thali,or even celebrate certain festivals but I can safely say I am well within the Culture of Humanity.

I am trying to realize God within and not look for external signs and symptoms of culture on anyone else.

The day I can realize that I am also God (Aham Brahmaasmi) that is the day I have attained the true culture that God wanted me to learn.

Ravi there is lots more to life than Paalum Pazhammum.

Dear Renuka,

With due respect to your observations/impressions, I have not quoted anything out of context. If you feel that my reference to your views about "paalum pazhammum" between the crowd of relatives has hurt you, kindly pardon me.

For your kind information, the ritual of offering "Paalum Pazhammum" is not a personal affair between newly wedded couples. It is not similar to sharing Paalum Pazhammum" between the couples during their first night, in their private room, as the movies shows.

The purpose of the ritual of offering "Paalum Pazhammum" to the newly wedded couples is, to solemnize the entry of new members in respective family. The bride and groom are taken to their respective homes, one after the other and both are offered with "Paalum Pazhammum" by the family members of each home. This is done before "Shanthi Muhurtham/First Night" takes place.

You may now understand, why you could not know the purpose of such a ritual?


Yes, dear Renuka, there is lots more to life than Paalum Pazhammum.

There is lots more to life than tying Thali
There is lots more to life than taking "Ganga Snaanam" at wee hours of morning, on Diwali
There is lots more to life than changing poonal on "Aavani Avittam"
There is lots more to life than performing "Sumangli Prarthanai"
There is lots more to life than celebrating "Kardiyan nombu/Varalakshmi Vradham/Arudra Darshanam" etc..etc.
There is lots more to life than performing "AmmaVaasai Tharpanan" for the departed souls of parents and ancestors.
There is lots more to life than celebrating "Valaggappu" and "Seemantham"
There is lots more to life than perfroming "Punyajanam"
There is lots more to life than performing "Ayushya Homam"
There is lots more to life than performing "ShashtiYapthi Poorthi" & "ShadhAbhishekam"
There is lots more to life than celebrating "RakshaBhandhan"
There is lots more to life than celebrating "GarvaChouth"
There is lots more to life than celebrating "Holi"
There is lots more to life than celebrating "Nava Raathri"


We can list out many many more celebrations, performances and day to day traditional activities that all can not match with what else we have more to our life.

Why to spend even a penny for all the above when a great advanced world ought there that is so expensive? And when humans with good sense can live peacefully with love and respect towards all and be a humanist/Naturalist. And when humans can keep advancing with the help of many reliable sources and in any ways and means, to equip one self and be competent.

You are mistaking me with what I mean about sustaining and cherishing our culture and that of personal choice of acceptance or rejection of such Hindu Traditional Culture, as an individual.

The point of botheration matters a lot only to those who could at least honestly accept the erosion of tradition/culture, deep within one self, having great reverence and willingness to follow them, though practically could not, due many reasons.

Tomorrow I can decide to throw away my poonal, stop partaking in cultural/traditional activities/festivity in my home, stop performing Pitru Karmas etc..etc.. and just continue to be a humanist and descent/ethical individual. Carry on my life with lots of love & respect towards all and sense of help/support to the needy. Can be in my "Bakthi" to my God and reverence to the grandeur of the nature.

This will never ever make me a less valuable person (personally and in the eyes of others too) than any other folks in the society who all continue to follow and cherish the charm of culture and tradition.

When we belong to a certain community and continue to cherish the cultural/traditional practices, fortunately or unfortunately / sensibly or insensibly we feel pained to see no one of our fellow community members sharing with us, our most desirable, admirable and cherish able culture and tradition. The like minded people feel for such absence, unite among them selves and try to make a call to others too, for the need of the hour. This neither makes them impractical, zealot, unrealistic and stupid nor makes them any superior to the others who don't find any sense in such a call.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

With due respect to your observations/impressions, I have not quoted anything out of context. If you feel that my reference to your views about "paalum pazhammum" between the crowd of relatives has hurt you, kindly pardon me.

For your kind information, the ritual of offering "Paalum Pazhammum" is not a personal affair between newly wedded couples. It is not similar to sharing Paalum Pazhammum" between the couples during their first night, in their private room, as the movies shows.

The purpose of the ritual of offering "Paalum Pazhammum" to the newly wedded couples is, to solemnize the entry of new members in respective family. The bride and groom are taken to their respective homes, one after the other and both are offered with "Paalum Pazhammum" by the family members of each home. This is done before "Shanthi Muhurtham/First Night" takes place.

You may now understand, why you could not know the purpose of such a ritual?

Ravi you might need to understand that I am hybrid Indian so I get most of my info from my mum.
In her community that is not practiced.

You cant expect my father to be telling me about Paal and Pazham isn't it?
I remember even in my engagement many things went hay wire cos my mum was mixing up her culture and with many things.

But its no big deal yaar...whats the big deal about milk and fruits?
We can eat fruit and drink milk anytime too in life.

I dont really attach too much importance to minor things in life my dear.

There is no loss of life if I failed to understand the Paal and Pazham ritual.

BTW Ravi only now I know that Paal and Pazham is also offered to the couple at the girls house too!!LOL
My poor hubby he never got to eat Paal and Pazham!!!hehehehehe cos at his house I drank up all thinking its for me only.!!LOL
Cos I remember my mum offered us some Kheer she had made and drinks were some warm drinks and also some cool drinks.

 

[C RAVI]

I dont really attach too much importance to minor things in life my dear.

There is no loss of life if I failed to understand the Paal and Pazham ritual.

Dear Renuka,

I understand your personal choices and preferences. I have nothing to criticize against them. And, obviously I am not surprised with your lack of knowledge on certain rituals and the unimportance that you attach to them.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

I understand your personal choices and preferences. I have nothing to criticize against them. And, obviously I am not surprised with your lack of knowledge on certain rituals and the unimportance that you attach to them.

Dear Ravi,

I am no Jagat Guru and not a Sarvajña to be 100% up to date with rituals and culture.
The rituals I know in life is sufficient to pull me thorough existence and that gives me immense Bliss that having faith in God is the most important ritual I know.

All other rituals in life are transient..its Bhakti and Shraddha that helps us along the journey of life.

After all didnt Lord Krishna say :

Men of small knowledge are very much attached to the flowery words of the Vedas, which recommend various fruitive activities for elevation to heavenly planets, resultant good birth, power, and so forth. Being desirous of sense gratification and opulent life, they say that there is nothing more than this.




Note: dear all I am not calling anyone small intellect here..I am just responding to Ravi's assumption on my lack of knowledge in certain rituals.

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Ravi,

I am no Jagat Guru and not a Sarvajña to be 100% up to date with rituals and culture.
The rituals I know in life is sufficient to pull me thorough existence and that gives me immense Bliss that having faith in God is the most important ritual I know.

All other rituals in life are transient..its Bhakti and Shraddha that helps us along the journey of life.

After all didnt Lord Krishna say :

Men of small knowledge are very much attached to the flowery words of the Vedas, which recommend various fruitive activities for elevation to heavenly planets, resultant good birth, power, and so forth. Being desirous of sense gratification and opulent life, they say that there is nothing more than this.




Note: dear all I am not calling anyone small intellect here..I am just responding to Ravi's assumption on my lack of knowledge.

Dear Renuka,

I am having an impression that you have taken my statement about "your lack of knowledge on certain rituals", offensive/hurting. If you have not and I am wrong to have such an impression, then it's fine.

Kindly do not think that I am belittling you. I just told that, I can understand why you could not know the reason/purpose of certain rituals, considering many grounds. I didn't mean to say that you have a small intellect.

Let me re-iterate, what is said in my conclusion in my post #106 -

"When we belong to a certain community and continue to cherish the cultural/traditional practices, fortunately or unfortunately / sensibly or insensibly we feel pained to see no one of our fellow community members sharing with us, our most desirable, admirable and cherish able culture and tradition. The like minded people feel for such absence, unite among them selves and try to make a call to others too, for the need of the hour. This neither makes them impractical, zealot, unrealistic and stupid nor makes them any superior to the others who don't find any sense in such a call."

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

I am having an impression that you have taken my statement about "your lack of knowledge on certain rituals", offensive/hurting. If you have not and I am wrong to have such an impression, then it's fine.

Kindly do not think that I am belittling you. I just told that, I can understand why you could not know the reason/purpose of certain rituals, considering many grounds. I didn't mean to say that you have a small intellect.

Let me re-iterate, what is said in my conclusion in my post #106 -

"When we belong to a certain community and continue to cherish the cultural/traditional practices, fortunately or unfortunately / sensibly or insensibly we feel pained to see no one of our fellow community members sharing with us, our most desirable, admirable and cherish able culture and tradition. The like minded people feel for such absence, unite among them selves and try to make a call to others too, for the need of the hour. This neither makes them impractical, zealot, unrealistic and stupid nor makes them any superior to the others who don't find any sense in such a call."

Dear Ravi,

I understood what you wrote.I know you are a direct and frank person.
I know you were not belittling me in anyway.
It was just exchange of opinions that all.

Cool yaar..differences of opinions are challenging to the mind!!
See how nice we can have a peaceful debate without fighting!!LOL

 

[ozone]

Finally, every one has their own religion and 'path' which they claim is most supreme and sufficient.
Till such time they find their own Krishna, Gita and the veda, they refer others' and from a version they like.

and then ... behold, a new swami with the latest version of pick-ed and choose-n dOs and dONTs revised and optimised for the evolved generation emerges. LOL !!!


Ultimately, every one is an Atheist in disguise ...

 

[renuka]

Finally, every one has their own religion and 'path' which they claim is most supreme and sufficient.
Till such time they find their own Krishna, Gita and the veda, they refer others' and from a version they like.

and then ... behold, a new swami with the latest version of pick-ed and choose-n dOs and dONTs revised and optimised for the evolved generation emerges. LOL !!!


Ultimately, every one is an Atheist in disguise ...

No my child..no one is an Atheist in disguise.
We are just describing the Truth the way we want it to be.
We are no Viprah yet but still at Pamara stage but yet we are practising Bahuda Vadanti.

Ekam Sat Pamarah Bahuda Vadanti!!LOL

 

[Jaykay767]

Dear Renuka,

With due respect to your observations/impressions, I have not quoted anything out of context. If you feel that my reference to your views about "paalum pazhammum" between the crowd of relatives has hurt you, kindly pardon me.

For your kind information, the ritual of offering "Paalum Pazhammum" is not a personal affair between newly wedded couples. It is not similar to sharing Paalum Pazhammum" between the couples during their first night, in their private room, as the movies shows.

The purpose of the ritual of offering "Paalum Pazhammum" to the newly wedded couples is, to solemnize the entry of new members in respective family. The bride and groom are taken to their respective homes, one after the other and both are offered with "Paalum Pazhammum" by the family members of each home. This is done before "Shanthi Muhurtham/First Night" takes place.

You may now understand, why you could not know the purpose of such a ritual?


Yes, dear Renuka, there is lots more to life than Paalum Pazhammum.

There is lots more to life than tying Thali
There is lots more to life than taking "Ganga Snaanam" at wee hours of morning, on Diwali
There is lots more to life than changing poonal on "Aavani Avittam"
There is lots more to life than performing "Sumangli Prarthanai"
There is lots more to life than celebrating "Kardiyan nombu/Varalakshmi Vradham/Arudra Darshanam" etc..etc.
There is lots more to life than performing "AmmaVaasai Tharpanan" for the departed souls of parents and ancestors.
There is lots more to life than celebrating "Valaggappu" and "Seemantham"
There is lots more to life than perfroming "Punyajanam"
There is lots more to life than performing "Ayushya Homam"
There is lots more to life than performing "ShashtiYapthi Poorthi" & "ShadhAbhishekam"
There is lots more to life than celebrating "RakshaBhandhan"
There is lots more to life than celebrating "GarvaChouth"
There is lots more to life than celebrating "Holi"
There is lots more to life than celebrating "Nava Raathri"


We can list out many many more celebrations, performances and day to day traditional activities that all can not match with what else we have more to our life.

Why to spend even a penny for all the above when a great advanced world ought there that is so expensive? And when humans with good sense can live peacefully with love and respect towards all and be a humanist/Naturalist. And when humans can keep advancing with the help of many reliable sources and in any ways and means, to equip one self and be competent.

You are mistaking me with what I mean about sustaining and cherishing our culture and that of personal choice of acceptance or rejection of such Hindu Traditional Culture, as an individual.

The point of botheration matters a lot only to those who could at least honestly accept the erosion of tradition/culture, deep within one self, having great reverence and willingness to follow them, though practically could not, due many reasons.

Tomorrow I can decide to throw away my poonal, stop partaking in cultural/traditional activities/festivity in my home, stop performing Pitru Karmas etc..etc.. and just continue to be a humanist and descent/ethical individual. Carry on my life with lots of love & respect towards all and sense of help/support to the needy. Can be in my "Bakthi" to my God and reverence to the grandeur of the nature.

This will never ever make me a less valuable person (personally and in the eyes of others too) than any other folks in the society who all continue to follow and cherish the charm of culture and tradition.

When we belong to a certain community and continue to cherish the cultural/traditional practices, fortunately or unfortunately / sensibly or insensibly we feel pained to see no one of our fellow community members sharing with us, our most desirable, admirable and cherish able culture and tradition. The like minded people feel for such absence, unite among them selves and try to make a call to others too, for the need of the hour. This neither makes them impractical, zealot, unrealistic and stupid nor makes them any superior to the others who don't find any sense in such a call.

wow ! Brilliant Summary !! Absolutely agree with all you have written, it is about cherishing these traditions & keep it alive !!. Not about imposing it on others, not criticizing others for not doing it, neither judging people for the lack of it. But lamenting about the loss of our great traditions & culture like the "old father" told me in my visit to USA !!

 

[Jaykay767]

Infact during my return journey from USA, I was onlythinking about the loss of great cultures & traditions among many manymigrants during the 50s/60s/70s that the old father told me !!. He was unfortunatelya victim of circumstances, lack of opportunities led him to travel to USA, hismany attempts to come back to India !!.

 

[ozone]

No my child..no one is an Atheist in disguise.
We are just describing the Truth the way we want it to be.
We are no Viprah yet but still at Pamara stage but yet we are practising Bahuda Vadanti.

Ekam Sat Pamarah Bahuda Vadanti!!LOL

Isnt it really mamaiva sat , mamaiva vadami?

 

[renuka]

Isnt it really mamaiva sat , mamaiva vadami?

Dear Ozone,

You see when we want to be fraud gurujis we cant be so direct yaar.
We have to keep the Bhakthas in a confused state of mind.
With Mamaiva Sat,Mamaiva Vadami the cat will be out of the bag soon.

Remember Vivek's comedy scene where he will be Pavadai Swami and say Yada Yada Mitsubishi and Yada Yada Kawasaki??
Thats the trick dear..

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Ozone,

You see when we want to be fraud gurujis we cant be so direct yaar.
We have to keep the Bhakthas in a confused state of mind.
With Mamaiva Sat,Manaiva Vadami the cat will be out of the bag soon.

Remember Vivek's comedy scene where he will be Pavadai Swami and say Yada Yada Mitsubishi and Yada Yada Kawasaki??
Thats the trick dear..

Too funny!!!!!

 

[renuka]

I have got a question for everyone..since some of us are worried about Glanih (decline) in culture and want to Samsthapanarthaya(re establish) it Dine Dine (on daily basis) what is your contribution to that O' Bharatas?

In other words what are you doing to make sure there is no decline?
May be we members can share our views on how we contribute even in the smallest of form to build the bridge of culture across the ocean of globalization.

 

[C RAVI]

I have got a question for everyone..since some of us are worried about Glanih (decline) in culture and want to Samsthapanarthaya(re establish) it Dine Dine (on daily basis) what is your contribution to that O' Bharatas?

In other words what are you doing to make sure there is no decline?
May be we members can share our views on how we contribute even in the smallest of form to build the bridge of culture across the ocean of globalization.

1) Don't close your mind and heart.

2) Don't get dissolved with the fascination of this vibrant world, such that you are fascinated with only evaluating the relevancy of customs and traditions in present and future times.

3) Don't lose the charm of enjoying festivity as per community's unique culture and tradition

4) Try to question the customs and tradition to know more about it, that are no way harmful AND not to frown upon it. And try to get to know what you don't know in true spirit.

5) Don't be lazy and uninterested.

6) Though you could not perform your pet custom/tradition due your own valid reasons, don't encourage others to ignore along with you, so as to justify your rejection.


7) Try to see and realize the values, beauty and charm in our culture and tradition.

8) As Hindus we have wonderful custom, tradition, practices to adore relationships and that of exclusive to males and females as well. Don't find fault with such beautiful customs as discriminatory and prejudicial. Enjoy the variety with love and respect to our culture/tradition

9) Don't join others in degrading and shunning our culture and tradition, so as to achieve something or other, while living this Globalized World. Try to differentiate professional life and personal life, social interactions & personal fulfillment, appreciating and participating with others in their celebrations and festivity and that of our own. And don't fool and debase yourself in the name of Globalization. Try to realize that beauty of true love, true respect and true friendship among each humans lies in "Unity in Diversity"

10) Where there is a will, there is a way. Heartily take all the possibilities and ways & means to celebrate, perform and enjoy.

 

[prasad1]

I have great friends, they know I am very found of our ceremonial food. So I get my cuikottai on Ganesh chaturthi, I get my adai, mixed rice, or pongal according to the function.

We go for gulu even me as they all know that I love my sundal. We get invited for Nobu.
In our temple we celebrate Pongal, and vishu.

Does that count as contributing?

 

[Iyyarooraan]

As an after thought it came to my mind that though parents and in-laws, siblings and relatives can play a good role in integrating the community living away, I have an idea that interested, well-to-do and well connected TB people can sponsor and arrange conducted tours to the South from around the globe. The tours should be well planned, arranged to be educative and to be capable of evincing more interest from the "tourists". Delhi and Goa and places like that could be the winding up destinations of the tour. It should only be by and for TBs though need not restrict others if it is going to catch the imagination of people. Well it will be an enterprise by TBs here and abroad towards integration of the community for its own benefit and certainly not for others loss.

 

[C RAVI]

I have great friends, they know I am very found of our ceremonial food. So I get my cuikottai on Ganesh chaturthi, I get my adai, mixed rice, or pongal according to the function.

We go for gulu even me as they all know that I love my sundal. We get invited for Nobu.
In our temple we celebrate Pongal, and vishu.

Does that count as contributing?

Off course!!!!! It obviously and sensibly amounts to contribution...

 

[C RAVI]

As an after thought it came to my mind that though parents and in-laws, siblings and relatives can play a good role in integrating the community living away, I have an idea that interested, well-to-do and well connected TB people can sponsor and arrange conducted tours to the South from around the globe. The tours should be well planned, arranged to be educative and to be capable of evincing more interest from the "tourists". Delhi and Goa and places like that could be the winding up destinations of the tour. It should only be by and for TBs though need not restrict others if it is going to catch the imagination of people. Well it will be an enterprise by TBs here and abroad towards integration of the community for its own benefit and certainly not for others loss.

This is the most profound suggestion Shri Iyyarooraan...

 

[biswa]

PS: This is what the father of the TB person (married to Chinese) was lamenting over Jack Daniels to me & sadly recalled the customs/traditions his family was following which are totally lost now

I wonder which side the Jack Daniels came from; you didn't say there was any Irish in the family!

But seriously, I get Mr. JK's point, and somewhat sympathize with it as well. Too many of us promise to come back and never do. However let me ask: why are we not worried about Indian kids in India currently celebrating mother's day, father's day and even Valentine's Day?

Is it possible that while trying to protect the diaspora, we have left the home-front unguarded?