Brahmin Marriages - Assertiveness/Aggressiveness of Girls - History and introspection

[kunjuppu]

Share:

Facebook X (Twitter) LinkedIn WhatsApp Email Share Link

sangom,

the boys' parents put up with it. that itself shows a resilience. most of the time, we dont know the politics of families or what goes within the four walls of a household.

we might be hearing the stories from one side. the other might have an equal and valid points.

..and in many domestic issues, there are no rights or wrongs. just preferences. which the externals often do not understand, but a good topic to wag the chin

 

[sangom]

sangom,

the boys' parents put up with it. that itself shows a resilience. most of the time, we dont know the politics of families or what goes within the four walls of a household.

we might be hearing the stories from one side. the other might have an equal and valid points.

..and in many domestic issues, there are no rights or wrongs. just preferences. which the externals often do not understand, but a good topic to wag the chin

Kunjuppu,

I can claim that I am not an outsider. No more please.

 

[suraju06]

All these could be understood as natural.

Even this much of understanding is a rarity in tabra households. Any way we take it as nice and proceed further here.

Suddenly the DIL changes her plans. She wants to resume work continue living with her in-laws but without even formally saying a word to her in-laws that she intends to take her child to her parents for day care.

DIL might have changed the plans because of reasons which may be such that they can not be discussed with the in-laws. A hundred questions may be asked and may have to be answered and a virtual inquisition may have to be gone through. Is the DIL not entitled to this much understanding even from her in-laws? Should they not be kind enough to understand that the DIL resumes her work in office for her own reasons which can only be sound. When the DIL understands the expectation of her in-laws that she should stay home and take care of the child which she has decided not to meet, is it not natural that she would have to look for reducing the burden to the in-laws which may accrue because of her action? Sending the child to her parents is not such a great sin nor is it some thing which has to be discussed elaborately and sorted out unless the in-laws are unable to see her as their own daughter.

I think this shows the scant regard she has for her in-laws and perhaps her husband also.

Rather it is because of the regard that she does not want to trouble the in-laws. It is only the drishtikon that matters.

Now she picks up the child on her way home and the child spends night time here in the hubby's parents' house. Should not the DIL have at least the minimum courtesy of informing her in-laws that she would be leaving the child with her parents only?

That indicates the concern the DIL has, not to offend her in-laws.

I have a feeling that the tabra males, like pendulum, are either this extreme or that extreme; now the trend seems to be "Daughter-in-law/wife, like vedas and other scriptures, are inerrant, and may be, the next stage of opinion will be the wife/dil is "apaurusheya"! lol.

Yes DIL/wife is inerrant like smritis and it requires a proper frame of mind to understand on the part of MIL/FIL who are also wife and husband. Possessiveness is like the tamas and rajas which impedes the proper understanding of vedas and here DIL. DIL is apaurusheya indeed as far as the husband's family is concerned. She is from another family and from a different background which MIL/FIL/SIL can never understand as long as they have this tamas and rajas clouding their vision.

Cheers.

 

[guruvayurappan]

d ear renukaji !
well said. smartness lies in taking correct decision without fear and one sided.the girls will easily f ind out the smart guy by their look and behavior as well as by their view on many topics
guruvayurappan.

 

[suraju06]

Case 4

This boy was a colleague of me in the Company in which I worked. One day while casually conversing he said he was going to see a girl with his parents and sister that evening. The next day when I asked him what happened he said it did not work out as his parents did not like the girl. And the conversation then moved on and when he came to know that my parents were now looking for a match he asked whether he can ask his parents to come and see me one day as he said we would make a good match. As I thought it was a good proposal I said I will find out from my parents and get back. Then when my parents too agreed to this idea the horoscopes were exchanged and preliminaries were got over. Then one day the girl’s mother called my parents and said they were not very keen to proceed further as my horoscope had the Mars sitting menacingly in some place and that was not good for the family. Next day in the office the boy apologized profusely and the matter ended there.

Case 5.

This boy was a very religious type. After preliminaries were over, he came to see me with his parents. When we met separetely he spoke very little and suggested that we can meet another day in a convenient place. I agreed. I told my parents this and they said that is ok and asked me to be careful not to choose any lonely place. We met in the Besant Nagar Beach on an evening. He was all the time talking about his deep faith in our religion and his knowledge of the scriptures. I could even sense an anxiety to impress me with his depth of knowledge. I tried to tell him that I was just religious in an ordinary way, that I believed in God Almighty, that I believed in visiting temple and praying, that I believed in respecting our culture and tradition and respecting elders. But it appeared he was not satisfied with this much. He spoke at length about advaita and its intricacies. I got a distinct feeling that religion had become a passion for him to the exclusion of every thing else. What more, he was wearing the religion on his sleeves. For the first time I took note of the vibhuti and kumkum thilak on his forehead. Every time I asked him something about his friends or his work he sort of ignored it and dragged me into religion and philosophy. I thought I was not prepared for this deeply religious individual whose sole interest was religion and God. With disappointment I returned home and told my parents.

Other cases

My search went on. My parents were getting restless. They thought the time was running out. Already one year had gone by. But they understood the problem well. They were very supportive of me. They did not want to hustle me into a decision. Since every thing was openly discussed in the family, there were no games played. Every one was on board for every decision. Slowly the relatives stopped referring horoscopes to us. They even talked among themselves that we were asking for the moon or that we were putting impossible conditions, that I was given too much freedom by the parents (செல்லம் குடுத்து குட்டிச்சுவராக்கிட்டா) etc.,They did not know that there were boys’ families who also rejected our proposal for one reason or other. There was this lady who got terribly angry when my father told her over phone that our astrologer had negatived the horoscope of her son. She sent a xerox copy of the old malayalm text called Kala Prakasika or some thing underlining the relevant lines in which it was said that the stars can be matched despite some deficiencies pointed out by our astrologer. She demanded that we give that page to our astrologer and get a reply from him. Then we had this father who went through the full length of preliminaries and finally discovered that we were from Madurai District and so it was not ok for his family who were from Tanjore District. Then there was this boy who was employed in one of those Nordic Countries. There was no scope for me to get employed there. When I did not like the prospect of going to that country to sit at home doing nothing most of the time, I rejected the proposal. The parents of the boy dubbed me career minded and cursed me. And finally came my hero one day. I will write about that next Sunday.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

ten days...
200 posts...
2800+ views...
but only 14 votes!!!
Yes we talk more than we act! :blabla:

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Perhaps:
1. The FIL is still active and out most of the time making money.
2. MIL is a socialite and lives in a different world.
3. They are old and find it difficult to take care of the child both physically and emotionally.
4. The child prefers the other 'thatha patti' for his own reasons.
5. The non resident PIL are willing and accept this as their duty.
6. Husband does not want to burden his parents.

There could be many more.

To my knowledge since the boy is older than the girls (by anything now up to 8+ years in our time) in all probability the parents of the boy will be older than the parents of the girl.
Since they are younger and have more energy the parents of the girl can manage the child more easily and efficiently than their aged counterparts.

 

[P.J.]

Case 4

This boy was a colleague of me in the Company in which I worked. One day while casually conversing he said he was going to see a girl with his parents and sister that evening. The next day when I asked him what happened he said it did not work out as his parents did not like the girl. And the conversation then moved on and when he came to know that my parents were now looking for a match he asked whether he can ask his parents to come and see me one day as he said we would make a good match. As I thought it was a good proposal I said I will find out from my parents and get back. Then when my parents too agreed to this idea the horoscopes were exchanged and preliminaries were got over. Then one day the girl’s mother called my parents and said they were not very keen to proceed further as my horoscope had the Mars sitting menacingly in some place and that was not good for the family. Next day in the office the boy apologized profusely and the matter ended there.

Case 5.

This boy was a very religious type. After preliminaries were over, he came to see me with his parents. When we met separetely he spoke very little and suggested that we can meet another day in a convenient place. I agreed. I told my parents this and they said that is ok and asked me to be careful not to choose any lonely place. We met in the Besant Nagar Beach on an evening. He was all the time talking about his deep faith in our religion and his knowledge of the scriptures. I could even sense an anxiety to impress me with his depth of knowledge. I tried to tell him that I was just religious in an ordinary way, that I believed in God Almighty, that I believed in visiting temple and praying, that I believed in respecting our culture and tradition and respecting elders. But it appeared he was not satisfied with this much. He spoke at length about advaita and its intricacies. I got a distinct feeling that religion had become a passion for him to the exclusion of every thing else. What more, he was wearing the religion on his sleeves. For the first time I took note of the vibhuti and kumkum thilak on his forehead. Every time I asked him something about his friends or his work he sort of ignored it and dragged me into religion and philosophy. I thought I was not prepared for this deeply religious individual whose sole interest was religion and God. With disappointment I returned home and told my parents.

Other cases

My search went on. My parents were getting restless. They thought the time was running out. Already one year had gone by. But they understood the problem well. They were very supportive of me. They did not want to hustle me into a decision. Since every thing was openly discussed in the family, there were no games played. Every one was on board for every decision. Slowly the relatives stopped referring horoscopes to us. They even talked among themselves that we were asking for the moon or that we were putting impossible conditions, that I was given too much freedom by the parents (செல்லம் குடுத்து குட்டிச்சுவராக்கிட்டா) etc.,They did not know that there were boys’ families who also rejected our proposal for one reason or other. There was this lady who got terribly angry when my father told her over phone that our astrologer had negatived the horoscope of her son. She sent a xerox copy of the old malayalm text called Kala Prakasika or some thing underlining the relevant lines in which it was said that the stars can be matched despite some deficiencies pointed out by our astrologer. She demanded that we give that page to our astrologer and get a reply from him. Then we had this father who went through the full length of preliminaries and finally discovered that we were from Madurai District and so it was not ok for his family who were from Tanjore District. Then there was this boy who was employed in one of those Nordic Countries. There was no scope for me to get employed there. When I did not like the prospect of going to that country to sit at home doing nothing most of the time, I rejected the proposal. The parents of the boy dubbed me career minded and cursed me. And finally came my hero one day. I will write about that next Sunday.

surajuji

Interesting! Very well narrated; this part seems to me very odd “Then we had this father who went through the full length of preliminaries and finally discovered that we were from Madurai District and so it was not ok for his family who were from Tanjore District.”

So what? Are they not very narrow in their search? How this Madurai District does it not compatible with Tanjore District?

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Any argument between a mother and her daughter will fizzle out with time without any permanent

damages. But the same thing with a mother in law will have permanent effects and repercussions.

I know a M.I.L has to speak with discretion and act with diligence and even then the fertile minds

of the daughters in law can bring in far fetched connections/ references and make her life difficult!

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

I have seen people who will have NOTHING to do with the Tanjore Iyers :nono:

and also those who will have NOTHING to do with the Palghat Iyers!!! :nono:

BUT WHY??? Aren't these people Brahmins as well???

 

[sarang]

There are other places too to be avoided! Iyempet in tanjore/ kumbakonam district is one such place! Old timers had very interesting anecdotes and catchy phrases for people from such places.

North south divide (Kancheepuram - srirangam - tirunelveli, chidambaram - tanjore- madurai) is real and cannot be ignored!!

surajuji

Interesting! Very well narrated; this part seems to me very odd “Then we had this father who went through the full length of preliminaries and finally discovered that we were from Madurai District and so it was not ok for his family who were from Tanjore District.”

So what? Are they not very narrow in their search? How this Madurai District does it not compatible with Tanjore District?

 

[P.J.]

VR MADAM

Really very True!!
But why this? Why MIL and DIL will have permanent effect when they argue? not in the case of Daughter and mother equation?

 

[Raji Ram]

ten days...
200 posts... 2800+ views... but only 14 votes!!! Yes we talk more than we act!

Dear Sis,

That sounds harsh! I have given the reason for NOT voting. I find that even very well educated, very well placed boys

from very good family background are not sought because they appear to be a little bit orthodox. Now orthodox outlook

is looked down upon by the new gen girls!! Such boys have to wait for years to get a possible match.

 

[Raji Ram]

Perhaps:
1. The FIL is still active and out most of the time making money.
2. MIL is a socialite and lives in a different world.
3. They are old and find it difficult to take care of the child both physically and emotionally.
4. The child prefers the other 'thatha patti' for his own reasons.
5. The non resident PIL are willing and accept this as their duty.
6. Husband does not want to burden his parents.

There could be many more.

Dear Sir,

The parents of one well placed scientist told their daughter-in-law, who is from our close family circle, that they will NOT

baby sit even for a day. Since the girl was working, she had to leave the child in a day care, after her maternity leave. The

parents are just 5 minutes away (by car) and this happened in the U S of A. This girl's mother has a health problem and so

she has to be taken care of by father! They live in India. So, there are many different cases like this. But generally, for the

girl's parents, their tickets are bought by their son in law since they are going for baby sitting. And the boy's parents feel

below dignity to ask their son to send the tickets! I have seen this in many families.

 

[Raji Ram]

I have seen people who will have NOTHING to do with the Tanjore Iyers

and also those who will have NOTHING to do with the Palghat Iyers!!!

BUT WHY??? Aren't these people Brahmins as well???

Tanjore Iyers and Palghat Iyers (especially from ThirulAkkadavu) are dreaded by others because of their high demands during
the wedding and even later! opcorn:

In fact, one mAmA was fighting in a matrimonial office to change his native place from Tanjore to Chennai because he could NOT get

any response form any girl's parents for nearly six months after registration!!

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Sis,

That sounds harsh! I have given the reason for NOT voting. I find that even very well educated, very well placed boys

from very good family background are not sought because they appear to be a little bit orthodox. Now orthodox outlook

is looked down upon by the new gen girls!! Such boys have to wait for years to get a possible match.

Shmt.Raji Ram,

Two of our neighbor's son neither have orthodox looks/appearance nor orthodox mind set up. They are well educated, professionally qualified and well placed. One is working in Delhi for HCL and one is working in America.

They started looking for a girl when they were around 27 years. Nothing finalized yet for both of them and they are now aged 32 and 33.

When this is the plight of guys from metro cities in India, we can imagine the conditions of those guys from small towns.

Around 3 unmarried Kovil Vaathiyaars of the temples around our area are of age group of 26-33 years and all of them are finding extremely difficult to find a girl even from their gurukkal community.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Ravi,

What you have written is very true. Whether orthodox or modern, whether in metro city of small town / village, brahmin boys

find it very difficult to get good match from the same community! High time that the parents agree to get at least Hindu veg or

non.veg eating girls, according to their requirement, so that they will have similar Gods and Goddesses to pray!

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Otherwise it will be a case of

YOU pray to Idumban and

I will pray to Kadamban!

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Personally I have lost all fancy for Brahmin girls.
I have seen at least some of them
wear all kind of weird dresses,
sleep till noon or even past noon,
have boy friends secretly or openly,
talk back to their parents without respect,
have nothing to do with Gods and Pujas,
feel as if they have dropped down directly from heaven.
Their attitude is completely wrong.
If they feel superior they will have to prove it
to be true by their accomplishments and
not just assume supremacy merely by their birth.
My aunty who is a famous gynecologist said,
"பிராம்மணப் பொண்கள் எல்லாம் உச்சாணிக்
கொம்பு மேலே ஏறி உக்காந்துண்டு இருக்கா!"
and this was nearly ten years ago.
So you can imagine the situation now!

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Dear Sir,

The parents of one well placed scientist told their daughter-in-law, who is from our close family circle, that they will NOT

baby sit even for a day. Since the girl was working, she had to leave the child in a day care, after her maternity leave. The

parents are just 5 minutes away (by car) and this happened in the U S of A. This girl's mother has a health problem and so

she has to be taken care of by father! They live in India. So, there are many different cases like this. But generally, for the

girl's parents, their tickets are bought by their son in law since they are going for baby sitting. And the boy's parents feel

below dignity to ask their son to send the tickets! I have seen this in many families.

My dear Raji!

It is much more complicated and runs
far deeper than mere air tickets.

Remember the saying

"The son is a son only till he gets a wife
And a daughter is a daughter for life!"

So these loyal daughter remain
loyal to their parents life long.

The sons will become more loyal to their wives
since she is the mother of his own kids!

And the boy's parents become less important and
recede to the background slowly but steadily.

The boy is in the power of his wife.
The wife (girl) is in the power of her parents.

So the boy is indirectly under their power too.
So everything will be given to them even before they ask!

The wife (girl) will make sure of that. :high5:

The boys' parents would think, that they TOO should not exploit
their already-fleeced-son and keep quiet and accept their lot. :tape:

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Tanjore Iyers and Palghat Iyers (especially from ThirulAkkadavu) are dreaded by others because of their high demands during
the wedding and even later! opcorn:

In fact, one mAmA was fighting in a matrimonial office to change his native place from Tanjore to Chennai because he could NOT get

any response form any girl's parents for nearly six months after registration!!

They may change the name of the city but not the temperament associated with it.

We can easily locate them by the questions they ask during the corresposndance.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Dear Sis,

That sounds harsh! I have given the reason for NOT voting. I find that even very well educated, very well placed boys

from very good family background are not sought because they appear to be a little bit orthodox. Now orthodox outlook

is looked down upon by the new gen girls!! Such boys have to wait for years to get a possible match.

Oh dear! It is just a general comment about the men
who talk so loud both visually and verbally!
We also have three different options remember???

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

VR MADAM

Really very True!!
But why this? Why MIL and DIL will have permanent effect when they argue? not in the case of Daughter and mother equation?

Mother in law can be more kind, understanding and loving than a mother
but she will never ever be equated to a mother
even if that mother is nastier by comparison.
I guess it is the secret and silent battle for the man's affection.
He is a son for one and husband for the other.
So both the women want to have him under their own power.
You know the result of power struggle in any level whatsoever.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

In the case of a mother and her daughter there is no power struggle.
They both are on the same side. So there is no tug of war.
They have one common unified aim...
to manipulate and control the husband
and extract / fleece him to the maximum, physically or financially.
So they stand united always...arguments or no arguments.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Shmt.Raji Ram,

Two of our neighbor's son neither have orthodox looks/appearance nor orthodox mind set up. They are well educated, professionally qualified and well placed. One is working in Delhi for HCL and one is working in America.

They started looking for a girl when they were around 27 years. Nothing finalized yet for both of them and they are now aged 32 and 33.

When this is the plight of guys from metro cities in India, we can imagine the conditions of those guys from small towns.

Around 3 unmarried Kovil Vaathiyaars of the temples around our area are of age group of 26-33 years and all of them are finding extremely difficult to find a girl even from their gurukkal community.

Every boy is finding it difficult to find a suitable wife.
The girls would rather marry boys other
castes/ communities/ religions/ nations
than choose one of their own clan! :frusty: