Case studies for mind development

[mssg]

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Dear Mr Sravana:

You have been patiently responding, thank you.
Idealism and practicality has nothing to do with why there is a lack of response. It is because there is no real substance to whatever you have concocted in your mind. Idealism will always attract people even if it is misguided. Here that is not the case.

Why do you think only your experience is unique? Every experience of every person is unique, don't you think so?

Also why do you think people will benefit by what you have to say? I can say it causes much more harm because you are asking people to follow you to a sand castle which will collapse.
Putting logical next to your brand of spirituality does not make it so.

Suppose a person comes here with conviction and claims that over the physical and spiritual there is another level called ether level where spiritual messages travel. Now the person is convinced that he can control all the levels below having won the ether level. The person claims it will benefit all. If I bring such a person to you , will you agree to be his follower?

Not able to click Agree. Want to let you know your comments are very agreeable.

-------------------
Sravna,

Is it possible for anyone to change their fate?

At best, we can only increase awareness / perceptiveness, thru meditative practice.

None can change fate, unless that option was available. Karmas from purvajanmas give options. But until an event comes true in current janma, we do not know which option was meant to be.

Which is perhaps why it is wise to surrender to that infinity, which we call feet of the lord.

Trying to change weather, boil water, bend spoons, using that energy, is such a waste.

Sravana, if at all you have conditioned your consciousness in certain ways, again, request you, please use that energy for better use.

Also, you tend to easily pit religion against science, with immature claims in previous posts.

If this helps, wish to let you know, an elderly neurosurgeon who experimented with alter-consciousness, awareness, past lives, and what is dubbed that 'awakening', is of opinion that all this 'paranormal' activity is actually, natural biological phenomenon. It is not against science. Since religion does not explain, in the scientific context we understand things, we just need more science to understand this natural biological phenomenon.

There is nothing unnatural, supernatural, paranormal. It is perfectly natural and biological. Humans thru evolution functioned on far too many years of learned awareness, which today is part of the human-instinct. Any normal person can develop that awareness, if they just bother to understand.

Today, we do not have the instrumentation, experimental basis to explain such things scientifically. But science will evolve. Just as electricity was once discovered, science will find a way to understand all of this.

There are brain centres doing plenty of research, around the world, in neuroscience...so, its just a matter of time. For now, articles like "The Neuroscience of Paranormal Experiences" by Corey Washington, may satiate curiosity in some. The article (from spartanideas. msu.edu) is simple, easy to understand, so, please do read it.

So, Sravana, please do not pit religion against science. Neither religion provides an explanation for too many things, nor science.

Each follows what is meant to be. Even in the extreme of one man's food being other man's poison, nobody becomes higher or lower in conscious state because of that.

Your beliefs may not necessarily be what you/we understand them to be, nor should it be acceptable to others. You may wish to examine your claim that 'people can benefit'. Is it possible for anyone to 'benefit' from others, if it is not already within them to seek/understand? Please, things will happen for others, as it is meant to be for them.

Bests.

 

[sravna]

Dear Mr. Sravana:

The intent here is not to put you on the defensive but to point out a very specific point. It is not a sweeping generalization which obviously is not helpful.

The point is that not a single reader from here has joined hands with you over many years of your attempts with many threads on your version of spirituality. You have been asking for people to join your efforts.

It is good to reflect back why that is so.

Just because an idea or thought occurs in our head does not mean it is true. We cannot say we are divining truth like that genius Ramanjuan using our intuitive faculties.

Good meaning members have been cautioning you only for your own good health. Please keep an open mind and examine the concern.

Best,

Dear Shri a-TB,

I classify people as two types , one spiritually inclined and the other not spiritually inclined. My audience is the former. I do not rely on painstaking logic to make my point. I try to appeal to like minded people's intuition and try to get across my point directly. To the rest it may not be making sense. They are free to ignore my posts.

 

[a-TB]

Dear Shri a-TB,

I classify people as two types , one spiritually inclined and the other not spiritually inclined. My audience is the former. I do not rely on painstaking logic to make my point. I try to appeal to like minded people's intuition and try to get across my point directly. To the rest it may not be making sense. They are free to ignore my posts.

OK, Mr Sravana,

Understood that you like to classify people in your head, much like all other things that come from your head.

The points of debate are these - there are no real audience or followers, about 10 or so read any post, a few more say 10 more will read first post. They are not audience to you

There is not 'painstaking' logic , agreed. But there is no Logic or intuition. This is just debating point and not to insult you.

Let me say what it all is about.

Somehow you are convinced that you have special powers (which is actually masking a weakness in most cases). By repetition you have convinced yourself and want to glorify that idea by telling others you want to help by fixing the weather or by curing them of illness etc.

There were challenges thrown but there was no real engagement from you on those challenges. Only more of the same set of posts appeared in different threads.

You have every right to keep posting and I am sure some people will always read them. Please realize that it is ALL about your ego only which is not healthy. Hence this post for your well being.

There is suggestion since you will continue. Why not keep only one thread open like many have done and post every idea of spirituality that comes in your head in that thread. People who want to engage will do so there. You will know who your real audience are, and can even convince them to join you.

This way by not opening many threads every other week the section is not subject to repeats of the same (which comes across as spamming). Please think about it.

Best,

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri a-TB,

Thanks for explaining what it is all about. I am glad that you read many if not all my posts even though you do find repetition and do not find logic in it. On a serious note, I agree that there is some repetition even though I try share different and novel points of view every time. The whole purpose of my exercise is to that there is truth in our scriptures and that it is even more firmly rooted than the knowledge of science, This is bound to ruffle the feathers of some but I am intent in my efforts and would carry on with my objective for the greater good.

I would also suggest that instead of just saying that something is not good it would be helpful to the person at whom you are directing the criticism to really engage on a debate on the points you disagree. That way you can show that your intent is genuine and serious.

 

[a-TB]

Dear Shri a-TB,

Thanks for explaining what it is all about. I am glad that you read many if not all my posts even though you do find repetition and do not find logic in it. On a serious note, I agree that there is some repetition even though I try share different and novel points of view every time. The whole purpose of my exercise is to that there is truth in our scriptures and that it is even more firmly rooted than the knowledge of science, This is bound to ruffle the feathers of some but I am intent in my efforts and would carry on with my objective for the greater good.

I would also suggest that instead of just saying that something is not good it would be helpful to the person at whom you are directing the criticism to really engage on a debate on the points you disagree. That way you can show that your intent is genuine and serious.

Dear Mr Sravana:

All that is said so far happens to be very specific and very descriptive. You are not answering them .Here is a partial list. You have not answered to any of them. Here is a chance.


- You remember the challenges thrown earlier, an objective test - What happened to that?

- Can an expert in 'Our scriptures' in our membership certify that what you are saying is in our scriptures. Otherwise it is another idea in your head. No one controls the weather except in some stories. You can worship the god Giridhari but cannot imagine yourself to be one and think of performing miracles with nature

- What science are you talking about? Let a scientist, one trained in Science and research certify what you are claiming is aligned with Science. I think there must be very many scholars in our member base here

So state specifically some concrete statements that are in our scriptures that your spirituality is based on and say exactly what science area is in alignment. Please say why it is connected to what you are claiming.

No wishy washy answers please. Let us settle this once and for all

There are these closing comments

- There are no followers for you - already established in prior posts. If you want readers then have one thread and keep writing there. No one will bother you with any objections within your one thread. What is your objection to this? It prevents spamming the site with many topic areas

- The topic in all your threads is not about any subject called spirituality but it is ONLY about you. You have glorified yourself by saying you have novel points that you want to teach your followers here - Most people do not see any novelty. And they are not your followers. Already established that.

Best,

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri a-TB,

Why this desire to settle everything once and for all? I am not here to prove anything, neither my intelligence nor my power. If you do not think that I am not contributing anything, why bother reading my posts. Your comment about spamming is uncalled for. The forum is there to share each one's views and experiences and everyone is entitled to present his or her views in the way one wants provided one does not seek to start a personal attack.

Please enjoy the threads that you find useful and informative.

 

[auh]

Sravna's threads and views, in this forum, have become (at least to me) "Mungerilal ke haseen sapne". Anybody remembers this seriel which came in the 90s (?), aired on DD?

 

[a-TB]

Dear Shri a-TB,

Why this desire to settle everything once and for all? I am not here to prove anything, neither my intelligence nor my power. If you do not think that I am not contributing anything, why bother reading my posts. Your comment about spamming is uncalled for. The forum is there to share each one's views and experiences and everyone is entitled to present his or her views in the way one wants provided one does not seek to start a personal attack.

Please enjoy the threads that you find useful and informative.

Dear Mr Sravana:

So far you have not answered any specific and serious question to your posts.
You have been opening new threads every other week or every other day for the past number of years.
It is all about the same topic - YOU and your powers! That is the main message.

If you contain yourself to one thread it is fine, But you keep opening new threads every so often just to glorify yourself. Sharing your view and experience is one thing, but should this be about you and your power to control nature in many threads?

spam



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  irrelevant or inappropriate messages sent on the Internet to a large number of recipients.
  
  
  
  
  

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Why should there be so many threads about YOU??

Also this kind of preoccupation with yourself is not healthy.

Whenever there is an opportunity I will remind readers that all these threads are about YOU being obsessed with YOURSELF..

You have claimed science, some scriptures, evidence, logic - In open forum there are serious questions of your intent,.

 

[sravna]

Ok Shri a-TB. I will try to address your concerns. So far I have been writing my views as I get the intuitions and so the structure might be lacking. Wait for a while. I will organize my thoughts and present the material in a coherent way. The logic should be more evident then.

 

[renuka]

Dear Sravna,

I am trying not to get too personal here but what a-TB has brought up is true.

It does seem that your threads are mainly about your personal brand of spirituality that orbits around you.

Mostly over the years I have been engaging with you in your threads and many a times its pretty evident that your spiritual views have no backing even from religious point of view...it does not fit in any known school of thought and also to be frank you never answered any of a-TB's questions.

Seriously totally expecting everyone to go along with you when you feel you only need to rely on your intuition and not concrete evidence seems not very logical in my opinion.

Also there is NO LOGIC in any of your claims...there is only YOUR LOGIC.

Even when experiments failed you could not accept the results.

You only wanted to believe what your mind wanted to believe.

Actually you come from a community that has a good well structured belief in God/Religion/Spirituality that has stood the test of time and maintained Vedic culture since time immemorial.

So why are you trying to deviate from your own Dharma by not adhering to the dictates of your own culture by creating a new brand of self obsessed spiritualism?

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

I am trying not to get too personal here but what a-TB has brought up is true.

It does seem that your threads are mainly about your personal brand of spirituality that orbits around you.

Mostly over the years I have been engaging with you in your threads and many a times its pretty evident that your spiritual views have no backing even from religious point of view...it does not fit in any known school of thought and also to be frank you never answered any of a-TB's questions.

Seriously totally expecting everyone to go along with you when you feel you only need to rely on your intuition and not concrete evidence seems not very logical in my opinion.

Also there is NO LOGIC in any of your claims...there is only YOUR LOGIC.

Even when experiments failed you could not accept the results.

You only wanted to believe what your mind wanted to believe.

Actually you come from a community that has a good well structured belief in God/Religion/Spirituality that has stood the test of time and maintained Vedic culture since time immemorial.

So why are you trying to deviate from your own Dharma by not adhering to the dictates of your own culture by creating a new brand of self obsessed spiritualism?

Dear Renuka,

I am not talking about my brand of spirituality. I am trying to give rationale to spiritual knowledge and it seems the logic is not evident. I will address the points you have raised here. When I talk of my ideas I will try to explicitly highlight the logic behind them.

 

[a-TB]

Dear Renuka,

I am not talking about my brand of spirituality. I am trying to give rationale to spiritual knowledge and it seems the logic is not evident. I will address the points you have raised here. When I talk of my ideas I will try to explicitly highlight the logic behind them.

Dear Mr Sravana:

Do you remember always promising something in the future when challenged all the while continuing to open new threads on the same topics?

By not coming here regularly it is i shard to be sure - Wasn't there a promise a year or so ago for everyone to wait for 'answers' while a breakthrough paper was going to be published by you. What happened to that?

You may want to listen to Madam Renuka because she seems to know a bit about our scriptures.

Do our scriptures ever promote one to glorify one's ego. If the topic is about YOU and your power under the name of spirituality it may contradict with our scriptures...

Even this topic of mind development is intended for other people's mind - why?

Our head can play trick on us, just browsed member mssg's reference that is in this thread

http://neuro.psychiatryonline.org/doi/pdf/10.1176/jnp.13.4.515

If you are convinced you have some powers it could be some neurosciences phenomena where our head plays tricks with our perceptions.

Sincerely hope you feel better, Sravana. Not here to gang up on you but there is an issue you need to address. First step is to stop this preoccupation with spirituality

Best,

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri a-TB,

I see your genuine concern. But let me ask you a fundamental question. Is it a logical impossibility that spiritual powers can exist? If so can you explain why? If not why can you not trust me? I am not under any delusion and am seeing it at work all the time.

The most convincing explanation why there is so much opposition for what I say is that on the past there have been people who have exploited others in the name of spirituality and given it a bad name. So any one who talks about spiritual power gets tainted by the same brush.

But I have nothing to gain by saying that I possess spiritual powers other than receiving some cynical remarks. I hope people keep an open mind and try to avoid the trap of generalization.

 

[a-TB]

Dear Shri a-TB,

I see your genuine concern. But let me ask you a fundamental question. Is it a logical impossibility that spiritual powers can exist? If so can you explain why? If not why can you not trust me? I am not under any delusion and am seeing it at work all the time.

The most convincing explanation why there is so much opposition for what I say is that on the past there have been people who have exploited others in the name of spirituality and given it a bad name. So any one who talks about spiritual power gets tainted by the same brush.

But I have nothing to gain by saying that I possess spiritual powers other than receiving some cynical remarks. I hope people keep an open mind and try to avoid the trap of generalization.

Dear Mr Sravana:

You ask - "Is it a logical impossibility that spiritual powers can exist?"
Answer: It is not defined and no accepted definition exists, it exists in some believer's head , it exists in the heads of people who saw a magic performance. it exists in the head of some in delusion.

The Mormons believe in a magic underwear - I am copying and pasting from some site
"Sacred underwear protects believers from spiritual contamination and, according to some adherents, from fire and speeding bullets"
Question: "Is it logical impossibility that magic underwear works"?

Your statement : "The most convincing explanation why there is so much opposition for what I say is that on the past there have been people who have exploited others in the name of spirituality and given it a bad name" is a trap of GROSS generalization.

Your path out of your own trap of delusion is knowing that you do not possess any 'spiritual' power and you will never ever have any such power in your life. Please keep an open mind to this truth...

 

[sravna]

Well folks saying that spiritual energy is a delusion, shows only a certain bias . I can and all those who believe in spirituality can say that the knowledge of science is only a secondary truth and is an illusion from the point of view of spirituality. If science can be put to so much practical use, I believe spiritual knowledge also can be be and so spirituality is not second to science in even that respect. In fact one can do a much better job with spiritual knowledge.

But in the very least I expect that just like those who believe in spirituality also accept the knowledge of science, the followers of science too not keep a closed mind towards spirituality.

 

[a-TB]

Well folks saying that spiritual energy is a delusion, shows only a certain bias . I can and all those who believe in spirituality can say that the knowledge of science is only a secondary truth and is an illusion from the point of view of spirituality. If science can be put to so much practical use, I believe spiritual knowledge also can be be and so spirituality is not second to science in even that respect. In fact one can do a much better job with spiritual knowledge.

But in the very least I expect that just like those who believe in spirituality also accept the knowledge of science, the followers of science too not keep a closed mind towards spirituality.

Dear Mr Sravana,

You have a knack of avoiding direct questions or issues raised with diversion to something else.
Here is a possible answer to one of the questions - The paper claimed by to be sent by you a year ago to a great journal was possibly rejected without response.

Answer to another question: you do not believe in the spiritual underwear of the Mormon faith.

You talk about bias but the only person who is biased is you. You are not talking about 'spirituality' here just as an observer but you are talking about it mainly to insist on your own powers. That is more of ego talking.

Many of us do not know science or our scriptures. Having spent a long time in organizational effectiveness and counseling it is easy to identify people and ego issues without batting an eye lid

Can you affirm the following now?

** Sravana never had any special powers
** Sravana does not have any special powers
** Sravana will never have any special powers

When you do this affirmation you will have your salvation from obsession with this idea of spirituality.

Once you affirm the about then you will show you have no bias.

As one member mssg implied in this thread not to pit science against spirituality. In this instance spirituality is all about your ego glorification only which is your trap. Hope you listen and be cured

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri a-TB,

I have just been stating a truth which is I possess spiritual power. Why is it an ego issue or self glorification?

Spiritual energy is essentially associated with self. The energy is not in the external world and hence one cannot talk about self energy by not associating it with self.

I will unequivocally and scientifically prove its presence . No I have not yet submitted any paper to any journal so far but it is definitely coming. The energy is still increasing and am waiting for a more complete understanding.

 

[renuka]

Dear Shri a-TB,

I have just been stating a truth which is I possess spiritual power. Why is it an ego issue or self glorification?

.

Dear Sravna,

The issue here is you make wild claims which has zero evidence.

For eg claiming to have decreased the firecrackers noise in Chennai.

Claiming to have brought down the Air Pollution Index.

Claiming to wanting to control the intensity of the cyclone.

All sorts of claims..anyone can claim credit for variations that happen on daily basis but NO...You claim its becos of you.

You want to preach YOUR brand of spirituality and be seen as a Messiah to lead everyone.

I guess no one falls for all these.

You see Spirituality as divorced from everything...most of us do not think that way.

We know everything is Brahman...so everything is already Spiritual.

Its you in fact who is anti spiritual...its you who claims that everything physical is non spiritual.

You do not give credit to God/Nature at all...its all about you.

Have you thought why even God does not work on your lines?

So a-TB is right...its all about you and you and only you.

 

[sravna]

So a-TB is right...its all about you and you and only you.

Dear Renuka,

It is unfortunate and unintended if that is the impression that has been created. My main aim in publicizing spiritual power is to show people there is something beyond science that can achieve practical results. I am not done with just doing this. I want to pursue the whole thing seriously and bring about a qualitative change in the way of living of people by using spiritual knowledge. I am seeing encouraging practical results that gels well with my hypothesis about spiritual energy. The real focus is only people and society and not me.

 

[a-TB]

Dear Shri a-TB, I have just been stating a truth which is I possess spiritual power. Why is it an ego issue or self glorification? Spiritual energy is essentially associated with self. The energy is not in the external world and hence one cannot talk about self energy by not associating it with self. I will unequivocally and scientifically prove its presence . No I have not yet submitted any paper to any journal so far but it is definitely coming. The energy is still increasing and am waiting for a more complete understanding.

No question, Mr Sravana that you believe you have some powers.
That does not make it a truth to all.

Dont talk about proving in the future, publishing in the future , use words like science and scripture etc.

People who are winners in life , do something and never talk about it. Their actions is the one that speaks for them.

Others should say you possess some power, not you trumpet around - that is only ego glorification.

People who are not winners or have serious issues only talk about what they are going to do.

If you are waiting for understanding why share your confused beliefs here thread after thread?

Your power is your mind playing tricks . People are telling you this , please listen for your own excellent health.

 

[a-TB]

Dear Renuka,

It is unfortunate and unintended if that is the impression that has been created. My main aim in publicizing spiritual power is to show people there is something beyond science that can achieve practical results. I am not done with just doing this. I want to pursue the whole thing seriously and bring about a qualitative change in the way of living of people by using spiritual knowledge. I am seeing encouraging practical results that gels well with my hypothesis about spiritual energy. The real focus is only people and society and not me.

Dear Mr Sravana:

Please listen to Madam Renuka.

People that help others do so without anyone knowing about it. They even forget after doing the help.

Anyone who talks about helping others, as if the world is waiting for that person to come and help is living in a world of their own glorifying their ego.

Knowing how serious this delusion is, people of the forum who care for Mr Sravana's welfare should not engage in unnecessary conversation about Spirituality with Mr Sravana because he is unable to tell the difference between reality and delusion..

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri a-TB,

You my choose to believe that I do not possess powers. I have nothing more to say

 

[renuka]

Dear Sravna,


Lets just be logical.

There are many people in the world who are very intelligent and talented but they go about using their intelligence and talent without the need to keep proclaiming that they are very intelligent and talented.

From their actions and work we can make out their capability and worth.

Best example I can think of is the late Dr APJ Abdul Kalam.

No one can deny he was a very multitalented intelligent man who never even once spoke about his brains and talents.

He only went around encouraging others to study and try and have ambitions.

Also none of us can deny that he was a very spiritual man well versed in Islam and also has deep knowledge in Hinduism.

Without the need to self proclaim anything the whole world knew his worth.

Thats all it takes Sravna..just go about your plans in a practical way which is still in the realm of logic.

Even though Dr APJ was a deeply spiritual man he always remained logical and composed..he knew when to be scientific and he knew when to be spiritual.

Its this balance that gives anyone a Holistic view.

You on the other hand want to defy even the law of gravity if possible in the name of spirituality.

Do you realize that you are giving Spirituality a bad name?

Shot tru the heart and you're to blame.
You give God a bad name!LOL

 

[sravna]

Thats all it takes Sravna..just go about your plans in a practical way which is still in the realm of logic.

Exactly Renuka. That is what I intend to do.

 

[sravna]

The different functions of a mind are performed through intellect, ego, citta and lower mind. Citta is about the past, lower mind is about the present and these two pieces of info are used and acted upon by intellect and ego and output are elicited as thoughts.

Intellect tries to see the connections in pieces of information while ego sees the pieces in isolation. Each grows when their function is performed satisfactorily and upon prevailing over the other. Ego grows first because it is easier to see isolated pieces of information. The experiences are stored as memories in the citta. Ego keeps growing till the memories begin to become hurtful. Then discrimination starts and connections are sought to be found by the intellect.

It is also possible for other ways of evolution, for example ego and intellect growing in tandem. But in any case the intellect eventually prevails and one gets enlightened.