Caste Based Discriminations

[sangom]

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Let me know what is the purpose of Mandal To suggest ways to remove castes and create a caste less society or to perpetuate it? Is Mandal Modern Avatar of Manu?

Jambu:nod:

The position is very clear for everyone to see. So long as we (the brahmins) were the beneficiaries, Manu despite his being a kshtriya, was good and acceptable, and the "private hanging", to use an example from the above news item (not real, I repeat) was good and nobody uttered a word against it. When the wind, at last, starts blowing a little favourably for the old sufferers, the whole picture changes, equality of castes rules brightly, Mandal becomes neo-Manu, eye-for-eye begins to apply, everything falls into an adharmic abyss!! This is what I elsewhere said, "It all started when he hit me back".

Shri RVR,

I have read the Narikuravar incident. You may be correct that there was discrimination against those people. They, however, say that it was confusion due to misunderstanding of advance booking and current booking, etc. But can you prove that the said theatre discriminates against SCs or STs? If they are allowing all other people will there not be some SCs/STs also viewing cinemas on each show? What if the theatre people suspected (or at least tell the court so) that they wanted the cloth bundles to be checked for security and all that, will it be possible to deny security concerns? So, even assuming (I don't think so personally) that the theatre management has a policy of discrimination against SCs/STs, it will be very difficult to prove the charge. I would request you to consult a good lawyer and find out his opinion.

One point I notice in some of your posts as well as this forum itself is that on the one hand you say TBs are living in fear, other FCs of the DK origin are ruling and all that, while, on the other, none of you seem to exhibit even the least amount of fear in bringing MK into the picture on each and every occasion possible and also merrily making fun of him, his Tamizh Maanaadu, etc. If the TBs are really being threatened and living in fear in TN, then such action on the part of TBs in this forum belies that statement, for a viewer from outside, like me.

Finally, if you have any personal grouse against MK (I feel that just as you claim that you or your children are not responsible for, and hence should not be punished for, what your forefathers might have done to the sudras, if you have not been troubled by someone personally, you cannot ask for any punishment for what that person's party or leader or other members of his community might have done; otherwise it is "tell me the person and I will tell you the rule/law"), you may file a case against him or his government, instead of venting your ire here.

I know a number of very poor TBs who are not that much bothered about history (let Manu and all rest in peace, we are starving today, type of philosophy) who also get the benefit of the schemes of the state govt. there in TN and have some good words for the st.govt.

 

[Dr.T.N.Jambunathan]

"The position is very clear for everyone to see. So long as we (the brahmins) were the beneficiaries, Manu despite his being a kshtriya, was good and acceptable, and the "private hanging", to use an example from the above news item (not real, I repeat) was good and nobody uttered a word against it. When the wind, at last, starts blowing a little favourably for the old sufferers, the whole picture changes, equality of castes rules brightly, Mandal becomes neo-Manu, eye-for-eye begins to apply, everything falls into an adharmic abyss!!

The question is not when it started or who started ? Should you continue with this caste based discrimination started by Manu? Should Mandal perpetuate it? If yes Mandal replaces Manu.l Jambu:frusty:

 

[RVR]

The position is very clear for everyone to see. So long as we (the brahmins) were the beneficiaries, Manu despite his being a kshtriya, was good and acceptable, and the "private hanging", to use an example from the above news item (not real, I repeat) was good and nobody uttered a word against it. When the wind, at last, starts blowing a little favourably for the old sufferers, the whole picture changes, equality of castes rules brightly, Mandal becomes neo-Manu, eye-for-eye begins to apply, everything falls into an adharmic abyss!! This is what I elsewhere said, "It all started when he hit me back".

Shri RVR,

I have read the Narikuravar incident. You may be correct that there was discrimination against those people. They, however, say that it was confusion due to misunderstanding of advance booking and current booking, etc. But can you prove that the said theatre discriminates against SCs or STs? If they are allowing all other people will there not be some SCs/STs also viewing cinemas on each show? What if the theatre people suspected (or at least tell the court so) that they wanted the cloth bundles to be checked for security and all that, will it be possible to deny security concerns? So, even assuming (I don't think so personally) that the theatre management has a policy of discrimination against SCs/STs, it will be very difficult to prove the charge. I would request you to consult a good lawyer and find out his opinion.

One point I notice in some of your posts as well as this forum itself is that on the one hand you say TBs are living in fear, other FCs of the DK origin are ruling and all that, while, on the other, none of you seem to exhibit even the least amount of fear in bringing MK into the picture on each and every occasion possible and also merrily making fun of him, his Tamizh Maanaadu, etc. If the TBs are really being threatened and living in fear in TN, then such action on the part of TBs in this forum belies that statement, for a viewer from outside, like me.

Finally, if you have any personal grouse against MK (I feel that just as you claim that you or your children are not responsible for, and hence should not be punished for, what your forefathers might have done to the sudras, if you have not been troubled by someone personally, you cannot ask for any punishment for what that person's party or leader or other members of his community might have done; otherwise it is "tell me the person and I will tell you the rule/law"), you may file a case against him or his government, instead of venting your ire here.

I know a number of very poor TBs who are not that much bothered about history (let Manu and all rest in peace, we are starving today, type of philosophy) who also get the benefit of the schemes of the state govt. there in TN and have some good words for the st.govt.

Sri Sangom Sir,

Please read the news paper report once more.

Tribals denied entry into cinema - Chennai - City - The Times of India

Because of the efforts of the lawyer Radhakrishnan, the Narikuravas were able to see the movie in the next show at a lower class ticket.

Lawyer Radhakrishnan has called both police and media since he knows that unless media is called, police will not act even to this extent. He has called Times of India since it is the most powerful media with all India coverage.

Subramanya Swamy was thrown rotten eggs right at the Madras High Court inside the court room in front of two judges by a section of learned lawyers. It means the lawyers have preplanned the whole thing and brought rotten eggs. If I take up the case of the Narikuravas, I may face the same fate of Subramanyam Swamy.

The rulers are afraid of media only and not about any other thing. We are discussing issues here which are basically covered by powerful national medias like Times of India, Indian Express etc. Once media takes up a case, then it is open to entire public and the rulers try to avoid confrontation with the media. MK particularly is very careful with media.

During last JJ rule, The Hindu was against her and they wanted to arrest its publisher S Rangarajan, Malini Parthasarathi and others. But since N Ram took up the issue at national level, they were spared.

All our politicians are afraid of media only and once it is published in the popular newspapers, it can be discussed openly. Tamil Conference and other incidents which you have mentioned were all covered by popular media.

Internet is not that much popular and identity of the posters are also fully not disclosed. May be in future posting comments in internet also will come under scrutiny and if criticism is coming from local residents, they may be attacked.

We cannot raise the issues which we are discussing here in a public platform in Tamilnadu unless we have support from opposition parties or powerful media

All the best

 

[sangom]

Sri Sangom Sir,

Please read the news paper report once more.

Tribals denied entry into cinema - Chennai - City - The Times of India

Dear RVR,

Please see:
The Hindu : Tamil Nadu / Chennai News : They had to take extra efforts to get tickets

It gives a slightly different interpretation, I think.

 

[AnanthaNarayanan]

Dear RVR,

Please see:
The Hindu : Tamil Nadu / Chennai News : They had to take extra efforts to get tickets

It gives a slightly different interpretation, I think.

sangom ji
the hindu is shampoooing the system or govt .........d`nt know.
these will divide the society in two levels. even though one is having the vital power money.

same thing is happing in kerala on Adivasis...........looting cheating beating etc etc....

 

[sangom]

sangom ji
the hindu is shampoooing the system or govt .........d`nt know.
these will divide the society in two levels. even though one is having the vital power money.

same thing is happing in kerala on Adivasis...........looting cheating beating etc etc....

Dear Anantha Narayanan,

I don't think The Hindu newspaper would miss any opportunity to paint the Hindus black, if it can. In this sense it has become anti-hindu now. So if it gives a story like this I will tend to believe that as more correct than the TOI version which highlights the role of police, lawyer etc.

Regarding your observation on the society getting divided into two levels, it is already there with the Maoists gaining strength day by day. If India does not act with foresight and speed to redress the grievances of the Adivaasis, the country may be slashed from the NE end (Gorkhas) to the SW end (Wayanad).

 

[kunjuppu]

sangom,

i read the hindu online regularly. i have to say that i have not witnessed any anti hindu religious bias in the newspaper. perhaps i am missing something?

on the contrary, i find the online presentation great - divided into so many section, each with regular daily updates.

of special interest to me is the 'memories of madras', and 'old cinema' which strikes a chord to my growing up in madras.

also i find the other sections on history, art, books and even religion, very eclectic in nature, quite different from the hardcopy hindu that i grew up with.

hope you don't mind this request. thanks.

 

[Nara]

Dear RVR sir, greetings!

....Prof Nara is willing to reward intercaste marriages couples in our Swayamvaram function at the rate of Rs.1000 per couple to the infinite levels.

My offer still stands. I am willing to even up the ante, I will donate Rs. 2,500 for each icm prospect for whom you give special publicity.

Let him engage a lawyer and fight the indiscrimination in the above case.

Now you are being fictitious. I suppose you are implying I am a hypocrite, waxing eloquent for Dalit cause, but refusing to take concrete action when an opportunity arises. If this is your point, I have no problem, I can live with it. Please understand what I am saying, I am not saying you are right, or, I am a hypocrite. All I am saying is I have no problem if you think that.

Next, let us assume you are correct and I am indeed a hypocrite. In what way would that make any difference to the validity of the arguments I am presenting on caste-based reservation system. This is a classic example of what is called ad hominem logical fallacy. Instead of arguing the point, you are painting me as a hypocrite.

Further, there is no case, the matter got resolved, they got the tickets they wanted -- they had the choice of Rs. 85 ticket also. There is no case, but what Devi Theater folks did was stupid and discriminatory. Whether it was caste based discrimination or not, I don't know. My feeling is, it was probably due to perceived uncleanliness and how other patrons of the theater may feel.

Finally, all this is just distraction. I was discussing caste-based reservation, whether it is good idea or not, does it benefit the intended groups, etc. Now, you have successfully distracted me from that discussion into a one about a stupid cinema theater employee.

Discrimination of `Nari Kuravas' has happened under the rule of Honourable Chief Minister Mr.Karunanidhi. He holds the home portfolio controlling police department and he is the top most living disciple of EVR.

First, I don't, and don't wish to, hold a brief for MK.

His own personal record of corruption not withstanding, the Dravidian rule has been a good one for Tamil Nadu. Tamil Nadu ranks quite well compared to many other states.

Also, you are not presenting the whole story. You want to highlight only those parts that in your opinion shows hypocrisy on the part of the Dravidian politicians. That is fine, I have no interest in that argument, the Dravidian politicians can defend themselves.

All I want to do is to point out a piece of the story you did not present here, and that is, it seems the government has given land and educational opportunities to these traveling vendors of handicraft trinkets. Here is what The Hindu says about this:

"The government had also given them free patta for their land. Most of the children in the family are pursuing education in their hometown."
​

That is not too bad for the MK government, is it?

Dear RVR sir, I don't have an agenda, I am just saying what I think is right, just as you are doing. I have no problem in general with you except the one time I think you hit below the belt which you refuse to admit. But that is not a big deal any more and if I don't get reminded of it constantly I will soon even forget it.

Cheers!

 

[sangom]

sangom,

i read the hindu online regularly. i have to say that i have not witnessed any anti hindu religious bias in the newspaper. perhaps i am missing something?

Dear Kunjuppu,

I have not seen the e-paper of The Hindu. But the hard copy which I get, has given me, over the years, an overwhelming impression that the paper was highly critical of the Bajapi Govt., Modi Govt., etc., and highlights all mistakes from the Hindus' side but is soft on those of the other religionists. Sometimes the difference is too glaring to be missed. Thus it is subtle anti-hinduism. I am not able to cite examples from memory but have noted to apprise you the next time something comes to my notice. In fact I had even told this to a survey from the paper and the fellow who came for the survey had noted it in his sheet.

 

[tbs]

hi sangom sir,
even i read e-paper pf THE HINDU daily in USA.....its only english e paper from south worth while....even i read tamil e -paper

DINAMANI and e paper HINDUSTHAN TImes....plz just visit Indian News | India Newspaper | India Latest News | News From India | India News Daily | Current India News for all indian e -paper news papers....i spent

more than 3 hours in e paper news papers....its my daily dose....like degree cofee with THE HINDU in chennai....


regards
tbs

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

I have been reading "HINDU" paper from the age of 12.Now I am 77years of age.I fully agree with the views expressed by "Mr.SANGOM"
To cite two instances: A huge riot took place in AHMEDABAD in the year 1969 when INDIRA GANDHI WAS THE PRIME MINISTER OF INDIA and Mr.HITENDRA DESAI was the CONGRESS CHIEF MINISTER. SINCE I HAD RESIDED IN AHMEDABAD DURING THAT TIME AND COULD HAVE BEEN A VICTIM OF THE RIOTS(GOD SAVED ME), have witnessed the riots.According tome The riots in 1969 was as big or small as 2002 riots.
Hindu girls and ladies become victims and this never gets reported in Nationalpapers.One Mr.RAVAL was working with me.His wife aged 35 or so mother of three kids who left the house during curfew relaxation period never returned.POOR RAVAL!.I was told that many HINDU GIRLS AND LADIES WILL BE ABDUCTED RAPED AND KILLED.ALL NATIONAL NEWSPAPERS toed the Government line and blamed BJP for 2002 riots just for VOTE BANK politics.
2.Recently Congress party celebrated 125 Years of formation though the fact is this Congress Party was formed By INDIRA Gandhi in 1969 after the original congress party
broke as a separate partyCONGRESS(O) and got merged in JANATA PARTY in 1977.
INTELLECTUALS, HISTORIANS and HINDU paper( who used to make noice during BJP RULE) observed silence.I Do not belong to any party.ALL WE WANT IS INDIA SHOULD FLOURISH AS A FULLFLEDGED DEMOCRATIC INSTITUITION JUST LIKE OTHER DEVELOPED COUNTRIES.
B.Krishnamurthy

 

[sangom]

I have been reading "HINDU" paper from the age of 12.Now I am 77years of age.I fully agree with the views expressed by "Mr.SANGOM"

Dear Shri krishnamurthy,

Thank you very much for providing instances and supporting my view of The Hindu paper. I am not sure whether people know that N. Ram has married a christian lady of swiss origin, I am told, and a trust or some such thing in which that lady has control, holds a big chunk of shares of The Hindu. May be due to these factors The Hindu is now "secular", which in the present times in India, means "Anti-Hindu".

 

[AnanthaNarayanan]

Dear Sri Sangom ji,
when i first thought of that "painting hindus black" instead of hindus, there be "govt". in ur post. but now i got clear picture . that the narikuravars also belong to hindu commynity only. when some insult like this happened in public centres like in cine halls. TH not raised the voice to support them.{ let hindu NK and hindu cine owner( may be a hindu don`t know) fight togather }.this incident, probaly the mistake from the hand of the cine hall staffs. more over my observation is, mostly all TBs will go the way TH goes becoz , it`s B paper. and it moves with wind. as you said anti hindu.

 

[Harini]

Brahmins hands are clean

Bapu could not have meant it for Tamil Brahmins. Both Bapu and Vivekananda are not Brahmins and that is the matter. Brahmins felt for his statement and also felt guilty about not doing anything about it. But Brahmins hands are clean.

blood of the oppressed classes was "on our hands".

 

[anandb]

Dear Shri krishnamurthy,

Thank you very much for providing instances and supporting my view of The Hindu paper. I am not sure whether people know that N. Ram has married a christian lady of swiss origin, I am told, and a trust or some such thing in which that lady has control, holds a big chunk of shares of The Hindu. May be due to these factors The Hindu is now "secular", which in the present times in India, means "Anti-Hindu".

I don't read The Hindu but have heard lot of people saying that the newspaper is anti-Hindu. As per this you tube link below The Hindu is funded by the Joshua Society based in Switzerland. I have no idea if this info is genuine but that is not difficult to find out , isn't it?
YouTube - The truth about our "SECULAR" Indian media

 

[kunjuppu]

Folks,

Pray may I give my take on the Hindu, and its supposed anti hindu policies?

It does not hurt to understand the underlying family and its internal struggles. N.Ram became the chief editor because of who he was when he was born. The Hindu still follows the ancient primogeniture form of succession – ie only males, the eldest son of the eldest son of the eldest son…

Ram has openly identified himself as a Marxist and his personal bias is against his own class, caste and society. But he is also a businessman and cannot afford to scare away readers or commercial advertisements. In this context, I have found the Hindu quite moderate in its tones.

Re the Hindu’s anti bias in 1969, that is long ago and history. The Indian political players were different and the Hindu was managed differently. If someone’s wife disappeared during curfew, the first question I raise is ‘what was she doing defying the curfew which was for her benefit?’.

During religious riots, all common sense and decency are relegated to nothing and what prevails is mad hate and violence. This is an opportunity for all sorts of people, and let us not blanketwise blame communities. It is certain individuals in all communities who stoke the fires of hatred and let us not be party to any of it.

Of late our TBs are into RSS in a large way. I do not think this is good for the community in the long run. Or in the short run for that matter. How many of us wish to lose our sons, brothers, fathers, nephews, grandsons in senseless violence?

Back to the Hindu. Ram turned 65 recently I think, and there was a planned palace coup to replace him with a more acceptably conservative individual (Murali I think). Ram proved very adept in turning the tables around, and got an indefinite extension to lead the Hindu.

To me, I read Hindu by default, for no other paper gives an insight to Tamil Nadu & Chennai like the way the Hindu does. The new revamped online Hindu is a delight. Folks can enjoy the sections that they savour, and if you are like me, avoid politics & editorial, as I have my own views and not inclined to read others, especially newspapermen’s.

Re Ram, he was first married to a Swiss, then a Malayali. Both Christians. Not sure how relevant that is to this ‘anti hindu’ reasoning. For that matter, Subramanian Swamy as far as I know, is still married to a white American Christian woman. I have found, as a community, when we do not like a person for his views, we do not hesitate to black brush the person’s private life. I wish we could avoid personal lives and stick to issues.

All big organizations borrow money for operations or capital. The Hindu is no different. At one time, it was believed that the Sultan of Brunei had invested in the Hindu Bonds. Now it could be others. This is not a sign of the paper selling away its soul to proselytizing Christians or Muslims. After all, the Hindu needs its leadership, who y and large are hindu and very capitalistic.

 

[Nara]

Dear Shri sangom and others, Greetings!

Re Ram, he was first married to a Swiss, then a Malayali. Both Christians. Not sure how relevant that is to this ‘anti hindu’ reasoning.

I agree with Kunjuppu, to evaluate whether The Hindu is anti-Hindu, we need to look at the coverage bias if any. For that, the identity of the owner should be irrelevant. Ram's connection to Christians must not be taken into account.

I also find The Hindu coverage thorough and reliable. Their reporting is accurate and devoid of sensationalism.

Cheers!

p.s.

If someone’s wife disappeared during curfew, the first question I raise is ‘what was she doing defying the curfew which was for her benefit?’.

K, she is supposed to have left the house during curfew relaxation period.

 

[anandb]

All big organizations borrow money for operations or capital. The Hindu is no different. At one time, it was believed that the Sultan of Brunei had invested in the Hindu Bonds. Now it could be others. This is not a sign of the paper selling away its soul to proselytizing Christians or Muslims. After all, the Hindu needs its leadership, who y and large are hindu and very capitalistic.

As I said I don't know if Joshua part owns The Hindu but if it does then I have a problem here. We need to be very clear about the Christian and Islamic agenda. These are proselytizing religions interested in the numbers game. I am not talking about the individual Christian or Muslim here who may or may not proselyte. But when, let's say a Christian Church owns media, we cannot be so naive about its intentions especially when proselytizing is a known objective of the Church. There will definitely be a tilt towards the agenda of the Church. And when it comes to media this can happen ever so subtly that people may not even notice it. So when anything which can blot Hinduism can be hyped and exaggerated it may not be so when it comes to other religions. So if Joshua does own The Hindu either partly or wholly, then Mr. Ram is definitely not going to do anything that will displease them, for sure. As a policy, mainstream media which distributes popular news should never be owned by religious institutions like the Church or Mosques or Mutts because bias can never be avoided.

I have no problem with religious institutions marketing their religion by having their own channels or magazines as long as they don't target and tarnish other religions. The mainstream media's reputation is already in tatters and ownership by religious institutions will only damage it further. My 2 rupees.

 

[kunjuppu]

thanks nara. i missed the point about curfew relaxation. still. still!!!

people go mad during riots. what type of a husband is one to let the woman out by herself? was there no other man there? also, if she was killed, it is likely that the body was hidden. the truth is it happens to anyone, irrespective of the community.

the smart thing, is to do without, in such times. and stay safe inside.

nara, the Hindu has moved quite away from the previous spectrum of past generations. the family women are empowered now and hold senior positions. one of the direct line neices, priya, married to dayanidhi maran. hence the political clout, albeit tangential, with MK.

how strange, that this paper was termed, Mount Road Maha Vishnu. now it is neither Mount Road nor Vishnu (maha or otherwise)!!

 

[sangom]

thanks nara. i missed the point about curfew relaxation. still. still!!!

Dear Kunjuppu,

I lived in Ahmedabad during 1992-94. There were several occasions when trouble would start usually in what they call, the old, walled city and like petrol burning, the conflagration will be all over the city and, sometimes, in nearby towns as well. We would be in the office, just across the Sabarmati, when the news of curfew will come to the head of the institution, and offices will be declared closed. We will go back to our houses with some fear but generally the clashes had their own patterns and areas and I for one, used to ensure, as a very brave man, that there were one or two friends knowing Gujarati coming behind my scooter!

School children who were not availing of buses/autorikshaws were the most vulnerable and their parents, the most worried. Sometimes they used to rush to the schools to fetch their children.

The essential point to understand is that the curfew (and the riot which caused it) were never pre-programmed. Same thing applies to relaxations also; though the initial relaxation may be for a definite time, curfew will be reimposed at the first report of riots/skirmishes even before the said time.

Hope you will now realize how it works in practice. So, Kunjuppu, have some humanitarian feelings for the poor woman who became untraceable.

 

[sangom]

Dear Shri sangom and others, Greetings!

I agree with Kunjuppu, to evaluate whether The Hindu is anti-Hindu, we need to look at the coverage bias if any. For that, the identity of the owner should be irrelevant. Ram's connection to Christians must not be taken into account.

I also find The Hindu coverage thorough and reliable. Their reporting is accurate and devoid of sensationalism.

Cheers!

p.s.
K, she is supposed to have left the house during curfew relaxation period.

Dear Nara, You will observe that the point initially was that Hindu would not spare any chance to deride Hindus, hinduism and any mistake happening among hindus especially discrimination on the basis of caste. It was only after some member/s opined that TH was giving a very good impression in its e-paper, that I reinforced my view that what I have observed over the years was different and also suspected the ownership aspect as is generally talked about here, and another member supported my view.

I do not agree that the ownership will not affect the paper's attitudes at all. See what happened to Goenka's Indian Express. And I have a close relative who occupies a very high position in an All-India paper and he tells me how the ownership colours a paper. Perhaps the e-paper gives the news and people in other countries have no way to get different versions or local reportage.

I also do not agree with Kunjuppu's dismissal of the 1969 incident as irrelevant. This rule does not apply uniformly for everything under the sun IMO. If TH was anti-hindu in 1969, what makes one conclude that it has become pro-hindu since then? Any supporting evidence? As per my experience, TH boarded the so-called neo-secualar band-wagon quite some years ago and is continuing so. There is nothing wrong if TH is really secular, but, as I wrote earlier, secularism in today's India means anti-hinduism.

I think when the painter M.F. Hussain painted Hindu goddesses in the nude there was not even a murmur of protest from the secular press.

 

[Nara]

... As a policy, mainstream media which distributes popular news should never be owned by religious institutions like the Church or Mosques or Mutts because bias can never be avoided.

Dear Anand, this is a fair point, I agree with you partially. Each nation state gets to decide what rules it wants to put down for media. The most important rule, IMO, must be about transparency. Ownership composition must be well publicized so that public is able to evaluate the reporting in the proper context and perspective.

The ownership of media and to what extent it colors the coverage is a vexing issue in all liberal democracies. US is a basket case where the so called mainstream media should really be properly called servile-to-corporate-interests media. But, there is a vibrant independent media if one is interested in an unvarnished coverage.

Well, what I am getting at is, coverage slant will be there even if the ownership is secular. Transparency and vibrant independent media are the best means to guard against bias in reporting.

Anand, I must say, the YouTube video is way too alarmist. First, they make lots of allegations without citing any references for us to check. Then they want us to make a connection and draw a conclusion of guilt by association. This, to me, is nothing more than a Hindutva hack job.

thanks nara. i missed the point about curfew relaxation. still. still!!!

I agree, I can't believe a responsible husband will let his wife go out alone under the prevailing condition. This is probably just a rumor circulated by motivated individuals wanting to rile people up. It is funny, Hindus are ready to believe any outlandish stories of violence against their own kind, but reject outright even genuine atrocities committed against others, and vice versa in the case of others with respect to Hindus.

how strange, that this paper was termed, Mount Road Maha Vishnu. now it is neither Mount Road nor Vishnu (maha or otherwise)!!

Yes, indeed .

This discussion made me look up a brief history of The Hindu. Some tidbits I learned from this Wikipedia article:

• The newspaper was started in 1878 as a weekly by six young men led by G. Subramania Aiyer, a radical social reformer and school teacher (I found the radical reformer part interesting, and also The Hindu started by an Aiyer!!!)
• They ran an editorial in 1894 in which they wrote that British rule had been beneficial to Indian people -- though they routinely challenged despotic bureaucratic abuses of British as well.
• Joint Managing Director N. Murali said in July 2003, "It is true that our readers have been complaining that some of our reports are partial and lack objectivity. But it also depends on reader beliefs."

Your observation about women in their family playing a major role running the newspaper is something to note.

Cheers!

 

[Nara]

... And I have a close relative who occupies a very high position in an All-India paper and he tells me how the ownership colours a paper.

Dear Shri sangom,

I do agree the ownership will have an effect. The purpose of newspaper publishing is not only to report news, but to be able to shape public opinion also. But we have a right to expect the news reporting to be unbiased.

The main source of reporting bias is they make the choice as to what we get to read. Even the newspaper of record, The New York Times, that boasts to publish all the news fit to print, gets to decide which news is fit to print. Therefore, bias is unavoidable.

We must also recognize that what we see as bias could be because of our own biases, me included. I remember a few years ago when the Sri Lankan civil war was raging there was a Sri Lankan Tamil in a different forum endlessly complaining that TH is anti-Tamil. He routinely used to cite TH news reporting of SL incidences that seemed perfectly fine to me, but he saw a slant.

As I wrote to Anand, IMO, the antidote for this is more transparency and more independent media of the kind we have here in the U.S., like Democracy Now, FSTV, Link TV, etc.

I also do not agree with Kunjuppu's dismissal of the 1969 incident as irrelevant.

I was not there, but from your account I gather you were in the middle of it. I defer to your personal experience. Many innocents from all sides suffered and that must be condemned. If the incident about the wife absconding is true then of course it is a terrible thing to happen.

I also think the Muslims who had nothing to do with anything suffered way out of proportion to their assumed guilt that later proved to be just an assumption.

There is nothing wrong if TH is really secular, but, as I wrote earlier, secularism in today's India means anti-hinduism.

I think when the painter M.F. Hussain painted Hindu goddesses in the nude there was not even a murmur of protest from the secular press.

The secular press by definition is not going to protest it, but I hope they covered it and they covered the protests of others.

I know this thing irks all Hindus. I am also not very impressed with his art. But, I think we were and are better than those Muslims rioting against Rushdie and the Danish cartoonists. We murmur some objections and then we get on with our lives, and that is just right I think.

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

Sri.Nara Sir said Here -

Finally, all this is just distraction. I was discussing caste-based reservation, whether it is good idea or not, does it benefit the intended groups, etc. Now, you have successfully distracted me from that discussion into a one about a stupid cinema theater employee.

This thread is about 'Caste based discrimination'. 'Caste based reservation' can be discussed here since it is caste based discrimination; also other discriminations may be discussed too. Discussion about 'Nari Korava episode' is not a distraction in this thread; but Sri.Nara quoting this

"The government had also given them free patta for their land. Most of the children in the family are pursuing education in their hometown."

is a distraction. This bit of information has no relevancy to the discrimination at Devi theatre. Here, Sri.Nara accuses Sri.RVR adopting to distracting techniques while he employs that technique.

Cheers!

 

[suraju06]

Sri.Nara Sir said Here -

This thread is about 'Caste based discrimination'. 'Caste based reservation' can be discussed here since it is caste based discrimination; also other discriminations may be discussed too. Discussion about 'Nari Korava episode' is not a distraction in this thread; but Sri.Nara quoting this is a distraction. This bit of information has no relevancy to the discrimination at Devi theatre. Here, Sri.Nara accuses Sri.RVR adopting to distracting techniques while he employs that technique.

Cheers!

Hi folks,
If I may intervene,I would like to say this. What is quoted here is not what Nara says. I think he is just repeating what was given in The Hindu when the original incident was reported. Now I wonder what was the need for reporting about what the Government is doing for the Narikoravas after reporting the incident at the Devi Theatre. The purpose is only this. To take away the severity of the backlash from the public who read the news. If the public is to form the impression that Narikoravas are being discriminated, take away the seriousness of that by reporting that Government has given them free pattas for poramboke land. The Government's and by extension the image of the ruling party and its leader is well taken care of. Many well educated people too lap up such news about the goodies that the Government is distributing. Only communists object to this. What is expected of a Government is not goodies but real channeling of expenditure in development. Put the power, enable the people to make money. If you do that without corruption that will deliver not only narikoravas but every disadvantaged section from the grinding poverty. But that is not to be with our politicians. So The Hindu is really singing a different song and Mr. Nara is just repeating it.