Caste System was the Only option for Brahmin’s Survival !!

[Jaykay767]

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Lets look at the Caste system from a historical perspective. After the fall of the Brahmin Empire, the Brahmins lost their land & had to settle in different kingdoms, under various Kings, Chieftans etc..

Brahmins without any land or protection by their own Army were completely vulnerable for attack from various kingdoms. Also they stuck to only religious activities post the historic war, hence they did not have any option to re-group and build a separate empire.

In the chaotic ancient world, the Brahmins could not have been on the sidelines, they would have been killed by the many small communities, groups, kingdoms.

Hence the only option for a minority group for survival is to impose domination against the majority & wield power. Only those who held power in the ancient world survived, the rest perished. None of us today would have survived if our ancestors had not imposed a highly restrictive Caste System, how much ever some of the people today may not like it! And there would have been NO Tamil Brahmin forum – LOL !!

So, there was NO sinister design, no racist design by our ancestors to put down the others. Try to box any community & see what happens, they will come out with any and all means to Survive & the “right to survive” is a divine right, hence there is absolutely nothing wrong in this!! On similar lines, when the dance form Bharata Natyam was about to be lost to posterity, the Tamil Brahmins took it ina big way & kept this art surviving & thriving to this day !!

Of course, having said this, I absolutely do NOT support any caste based discrimination today, this post is only to put this in the right historical perspective!!

 

[renuka]

What a post!LOL

I do not even know how to react!

Are you trying to say that Brahmins deviced caste system to protect their own interest?

So if what you are saying is true..than why all the fuss now about the reservation system cos others from other than the Brahmin Varna can also argue that they want to protect their own interest.

 

[Jaykay767]

Hi Renuka - LOL !. Just putting this issue in the right historical perspective. any way you look at it, Brahmins had no choice in the ancient past !!. I wish there was some other way, but frankly they had no other option !!. On the reservations today, I do not support because it will lead to mediocrity & disaster. Look at how many kids are lost in our hospitals due to sheer incompetence !! Cheers,

 

[renuka]

Look at how many kids are lost in our hospitals due to sheer incompetence !! Cheers,

Dear Sir,

Incompetence can happen in any field..In another thread someone wrote that people prefer Brahmin doctors..but I wonder why no one bothers to find out the caste of their pilot after all he holds more lives in his hand than a doctor!LOL

Just to add do not blame incompetence as a result of reservation..believe me being a doctor myself I can safely say that it is not too hard being a doctor..you do not need much brains to be one..just being hardworking,being alert, play by the rules and knowing when to take action is enough......just think of a watch dog..watch dog need not have very high IQ..just being alert,hardworking and play by the rules and knowing when to bark....same with a doctor..only difference is doctor does not need to bark!

BTW in some countries Brahmins are hardly there..like China,Japan and South East Asia and yet doctors go about their work as usual and are competent..competence has nothing to do with caste.

 

[sravna]

Dear Renuka,

The point I think is admission to professional courses is only to a small extent due to merit. So incompetence is very likely to be there in those who do not get admitted on merit.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

The point I think is admission to professional courses is only to a small extent due to merit. So incompetence is very likely to be there in those who do not get admitted on merit.

Dear Sravna,

Believe me..I have seen students in medical college who were very very average or even below average but as time went on they developed very good clinical skills and human touch which made them some of the best doctors I know today.

Medical profession isn't all about scoring high in exams.

 

[sravna]

Dear Renuka,

I definitely agree. Doctors require human touch and the ability to apply knowledge for success. The criteria for merit are not perfect. But what I am saying is if money or caste is going to be the route to a medical seat those who don't have an iota of the above qualifications can get in, become doctors and be entrusted the lives of patients. That is definitely not desirable.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

I definitely agree. Doctors require human touch and the ability to apply knowledge for success. The criteria for merit are not perfect. But what I am saying is if money or caste is going to be the route to a medical seat those who don't have an iota of the above qualifications can get in, become doctors and be entrusted the lives of patients. That is definitely not desirable.

Dear Sravna,

Actually it is very hard to streamline a person for the medical course..studying is totally different from working.

Sometimes right after even scoring a distinction and gold medals for final exam some realize that they were actually not cut to be a doctor.

I remember a senior of mine from here who got every gold medal possible in college and was totally a genius..after working as a doctor she realized that she did not like the idea of being a doctor and then chose to join Unesco and work in a related field remotely related to her qualification.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

Actually it is very hard to streamline a person for the medical course..studying is totally different from working.

Sometimes right after even scoring a distinction and gold medals for final exam some realize that they were actually not cut to be a doctor.

I remember a senior of mine from here who got every gold medal possible in college and was totally a genius..after working as a doctor she realized that she did not like the idea of being a doctor and then chose to join Unesco and work in a related field remotely related to her qualification.

Dear Renuka,

You are correct. Not all who are chosen on merit will turn out to be good doctors. But you should not make it possible for anyone to enter the field as the cost others have to pay for one's incompetence is high.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

You are correct. Not all who are chosen on merit will turn out to be good doctors. But you should not make it possible for anyone to enter the field as the cost others have to pay for one's incompetence is high.

Dear Sravna,

I was watching Master Chef US and during the screening rounds some very good cooks were not selected for the contest even though their dishes were better than the rest.

The judges felt that even though they cooked well some of these cooks were very sweet natured and would not survive the harsh competitive environment.

Even in a Supermodel search contest I remember one girl who had all the looks and body to be a model was turned down cos the judges felt she was too good natured and would not know to survive in harsh and tough environment.

This is the 1st time I am seeing people being turned down all becos they had a good nature.

So going by that I feel professional courses should screen people for survival skills of the harsh harsh world and not just merit alone.

 

[vgane]

Dear Renuka,

I definitely agree. Doctors require human touch and the ability to apply knowledge for success. The criteria for merit are not perfect. But what I am saying is if money or caste is going to be the route to a medical seat those who don't have an iota of the above qualifications can get in, become doctors and be entrusted the lives of patients. That is definitely not desirable.

Let us take Medical PG Admissions.....They are auctioned to the highest bidder...MD in Radiology went for Rs 4 crores at a Chennai college...Paediatrics Rs 1.6 Crores, Ortho/Dermatology goes between Rs 1-1.5 crores...Education means big business...So what will happen to such Doctors..They will naturally go & prescribe a CT scan for a small ailment..Or may suggest a costly surgical procedure where normal medication can work ...Do you think such Doctors will follow ethics and morality?

There is no more service in being a Doctor..It is just a money spinning profession

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

I was watching Master Chef US and during the screening rounds some very good cooks were not selected for the contest even though their dishes were better than the rest.

The judges felt that even though they cooked well some of these cooks were very sweet natured and would not survive the harsh competitive environment.

Even in a Supermodel search contest I remember one girl who had all the looks and body to be a model was turned down cos the judges felt she was too good natured and would not know to survive in harsh and tough environment.

This is the 1st time I am seeing people being turned down all becos they had a good nature.

So going by that I feel professional courses should screen people for survival skills of the harsh harsh world and not just merit alone.

Dear Renuka,

You can screen for whatever appropriate skills are required for the success in profession. But ensure that you don't let people who see medicine just as a money spinning profession enter it.

 

[vgane]

Post #1

Dear Jaykay767,

Not clear how you ascribe caste system to the Brahmins...Is there some evidence

"As per Rig Veda, the different Varnas were created from different parts of the Primal man's body. The Brahmans were created from his head; the Kshatrias from his hands; the Vaishyas from his thighs and the Shudras from his feet. The Varna hierarchy is determined by the descending order of the different organs from which the Varnas were created. Other religious theory claims that the Varnas were created from the body organs of Brahma, who is the creator of the world"

 

[renuka]

Let us take Medical PG Admissions.....They are auctioned to the highest bidder...MD in Radiology went for Rs 4 crores at a Chennai college...Paediatrics Rs 1.6 Crores, Ortho/Dermatology goes between Rs 1-1.5 crores...Education means big business...So what will happen to such Doctors..They will naturally go & prescribe a CT scan for a small ailment..Or may suggest a costly surgical procedure where normal medication can work ...Do you think such Doctors will follow ethics and morality?

There is no more service in being a Doctor..It is just a money spinning profession

Dear Vgane Ji,

You are not 100% right..for students from other countries back in 1990 we had to get the minimum requirements in our A levels exam and also pay US $ 40,000 as the booking fee with yearly US $2000 as tuition fee and that was not inclusive of hostel food etc for a Private Medical College seat in India.

We felt that US $40,000 +++ was the fee and nothing more.

None of us felt that we need to get back the money from our patients by being unethical.

Just like when we go to a restaurant for meals we have to pay for our food..do we leave the restaurant thinking that we have to get back what we spent on food from someone else?

 

[renuka]

Post #1

Dear Jaykay767,

Not clear how you ascribe caste system to the Brahmins...Is there some evidence

"As per Rig Veda, the different Varnas were created from different parts of the Primal man's body. The Brahmans were created from his head; the Kshatrias from his hands; the Vaishyas from his thighs and the Shudras from his feet. The Varna hierarchy is determined by the descending order of the different organs from which the Varnas were created. Other religious theory claims that the Varnas were created from the body organs of Brahma, who is the creator of the world"

Dear Vgane ji,

I agree with you...that is why I was kind of surprised to read Jaykays post.

 

[vgane]

Dear Vgane Ji,

You are not 100% right..for students from other countries back in 1990 we had to get the minimum requirements in our A levels exam and also pay US $ 40,000 as the booking fee with yearly US $2000 as tuition fee and that was not inclusive of hostel food etc for a Private Medical College seat in India.

We felt that US $40,000 +++ was the fee and nothing more.

None of us felt that we need to get back the money from our patients by being unethical.

Just like when we go to a restaurant for meals we have to pay for our food..do we leave the restaurant thinking that we have to get back what we spent on food from someone else?

Dear Dr,

I think you were charged in Dollars as you were an NRI...But charging this amount in Crores (1 Crores in Indian Rupees is approx USD 150000)from Indian citizens whose average per capita income is USD 1500 is plain day light robbery/ fleecing

 

[renuka]

Dear Dr,

I think you were charged in Dollars as you were an NRI...But charging this amount in Crores (1 Crores in Indian Rupees is approx USD 150000)from Indian citizens whose average per capita income is USD 1500 is plain day light robbery/ fleecing

Dear Vgane ji,

NRIs paid less than me cos NRI is still an Indian citizen and they paid Indian rates only.

I am a Malaysian citizen so I had to pay the Foreign Quota Rate.

The fee now for a foreigner is about US150,000 or more.

My rate of USD 40,000 was way back in 1990...and that was still a lot for us cos the exchange rate..but lucky the Ringgit is stable so the exchange rate of USD and Malaysian Ringgit has not changed much.

 

[sangom]

Lets look at the Caste system from a historical perspective. After the fall of the Brahmin Empire, the Brahmins lost their land & had to settle in different kingdoms, under various Kings, Chieftans etc..

Brahmins without any land or protection by their own Army were completely vulnerable for attack from various kingdoms. Also they stuck to only religious activities post the historic war, hence they did not have any option to re-group and build a separate empire.

In the chaotic ancient world, the Brahmins could not have been on the sidelines, they would have been killed by the many small communities, groups, kingdoms.

Hence the only option for a minority group for survival is to impose domination against the majority & wield power. Only those who held power in the ancient world survived, the rest perished. None of us today would have survived if our ancestors had not imposed a highly restrictive Caste System, how much ever some of the people today may not like it! And there would have been NO Tamil Brahmin forum – LOL !!

So, there was NO sinister design, no racist design by our ancestors to put down the others. Try to box any community & see what happens, they will come out with any and all means to Survive & the “right to survive” is a divine right, hence there is absolutely nothing wrong in this!! On similar lines, when the dance form Bharata Natyam was about to be lost to posterity, the Tamil Brahmins took it ina big way & kept this art surviving & thriving to this day !!

Of course, having said this, I absolutely do NOT support any caste based discrimination today, this post is only to put this in the right historical perspective!!

The truth is out, at last !! even though the route it has taken seems to be different.