Dhikshitars of Chidambaram are also Tamil Brahmins too

[malgova.mango]

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Dear Sri Appaiah

Oh yes, I did read one or 2 posts from her, as in the link. A fortunate and devoted soul. I enjoyed that too. We need active participations from women of this kind. They should voice out, they should protect their culture - she showed an exemplary way. My heart-felt congrats to her.

Regards
malgova.mango

 

[Saab]

Thank you Appaiahji for the url.

When I learnt that the police took the pretext of this 'planted' guy into the temple to invade our sacred temple and beat the Dhikshitars inside our/their own temple I thought for a second how those Chola Rajas who built so many Shiva temples would be shuddering in their grave. What kind of albetross is this secularism that we are adorned with? I couldn't sleep for a few days to tell you honestly. Could you imagine if the police invaded a Church or a mosque and beat the priests and mullahs in this country where the Christians and Muslims are only a minority? Do you think we would have the stunned silence in the secular press or their tamed followers?

I was appalled that some secular posters here never felt wronged by the wantonness of the police. Either they approved of it by denouncing the Dhikshitars or decided to stay completely mute. Coupled to this were posters who were more enarmoured with defending other religions were vying with each other to vehemently put down Brahmins generally and Dhikshtars in particular - all in the name of their so called 'human rights'. The cynicism exhibited by these jaded negativists in running roughshod trampling underfoot the sanctity of our reverences and practices on the one hand and their crossing of the sacred Lakshman Rekha of our sastras at every posting on the other were most indecent to say the least.

I have watched with dismay the running down of our sages like Mahaperiava that drove away some very pious posters and then I witnessed the 'circus' of 'taming' the posters by the ever vigilant moderator who remained more of a participant than a referee who to my amusement decreed at the end that no one but she alone would be engaged in a thread about what I said or meant! We lost some more members in this melee.

I hope Sri Praveenji would issue his 'Guidelines' protecting those of his own clan viz. the Brahmins and the Hindus for whose defense I believe he started this website. I wonder if someone can be a Brahmin without being a Hindu and such Brahmin be not concerned about the attacks on Hinduism by other religions and by the secular governments.

Regards,
Saab

 

[anandr91]

Mr. Saab,
KUDOS & WELL SAID!!!!!!!!!!!! I am glad atleast there is one person here who keeps saying and sticks to his point and stands by it. U cannot ignore all the atrocities that happen without raising a voice. we have done this for ages(not saying anything), where has it led us? get trampled down into the dirt. maybe we are the ones who are the real "DOWNTRODDEN". maybe it is time that we need to get into action to defend our religion, culture and heritage. am not saying or advising people to go stone and burn buses or go on hunger strike(ala gandhi, which has gotten us into this mess). maybe we need to realise that the pen is mightier than the sword. I think the new age is waking up to all this nonsense around them and want more information and knowledge.
something that is unrelated to this forum, in all this mess that is happening, what role or if any role is the ******* playing. or is just an organization in name only for people to sit around and do nothing. there are so many organizations that are formed and jump up into some kinda action in the name of "secularism". some of the members here might be members with *******. could you enlighten me what they are doing about things like this.

yes some off u keep saying sanatana dharma and all those things about how we are a tolerant religion. i understand that and the reasons behind it. but isnt not taking a stand or doing something against injustice is a sin?

 

[appaiah]

Dear Sri Saab

As I said earlier, there are many out in the world to take care of the Hindu Cause. This forum officially has some 2500 members and of them there are only about 100 who post regularly. And they also are spread across the globe and the members over here can do little to the Hindu Cause. But properly canalised, the forum members can probably help a few downtrodden families come up. Slowly the corpus can be built up over the years and the forum should aim at establishing its own educational institution in about ten years. An old age home and a hospital should follow in due course. Setting such lofty goals should be the objective of the Forum, while we let the guardians of Hinduism in the greater world to take proper care of issues like conversion, fundamentalism, terrorism, atheist attacks and the like. Education at a low cost to the community members, complemented by guidance and counseling for career will bring about upliftment of the downtrodden in the community. We have many problems left unattended in our community including but not limited to the following:

1.There are poor who are unable to give proper education to their children.
2.There are those who are unable to give them the career counseling that they end up doing less producing courses though they would have economically benefited if properly guided.
3.There are widows and destitute who need economic and social support.
4.There are old people who need economic, medical and emotional support.
5.The cost of medical attention has gone up so much that it is difficult even for middle class families to take care even of the bread-winning member in case such member is faced with serious illness like renal failure or heart disease and the like.

These can be exclusively attended to by us. Let us start in a small way. Then it will catch up and spread to greater levels. Rather than getting at such constructive efforts, if we keep our eyes on the neighbor we will only be passing this world contributing nothing to the community. Let us take note of what Ramadoss of PMK has done; he has created a University for the benefit of his community. A wise attempt would be to discuss how he has done it and emulate the good deed rather than going after the tens of his followers who went in with Arumugasamy into the Chidambaram temple.

It is business, pure and simple, for T.R.Jawahar to write the kind of articles that you post in the forum; he sells his newspaper; he has gratitude for MGR, Jayalalithaa and AIADMK for having funded his (late) father (T R Ramasamy) in establishing News Today and Makkal Kural when he came out of Kalki magazine. He will keep writing such articles in support of Hinduism as long as the person at the receiving end is Karunanithi. He will stop such articles when the person at the other end is Jayalalithaa. Today it is convenient for him to write these. Tomorrow when AIADMK strikes an alliance with Congress I, he will write only on LTTE’s terrorism and not on the attacks on Hinduism. It is his opportunity that he is encashing on. If you have any doubts on what I say, please read the “news today” articles during 1991-96 when AIADMK and Congress I had the alliance and both were in power. The core of his news those days was only LTTE and terrorism. Those topics that suit AIADMK’s politics alone will be highlighted by him. Should we get carried away by the likes of him? This is the politics that I hinted at in my last post. I hope that we see these games and not fall a prey to them. If we fall a prey to such political games (some call themselves as politicians, some don’t; but the political agenda is common), then it is only our time, energy and money that go waste. It is up to us to beware. That is why I suggest that we drop the confrontationist path and take the constructive path. When we reach the level of the Jewish or the Parsi community all things will automatically fall in place in total support of the community.

If you can contribute in any manner in the constructive path, please do so. It need not necessarily be economical alone. It can be your time, the time that you may spend in reading the provocative articles.

I assure you that I will contribute whatever I can. And I will work to get as many as possible to so contribute whatever they can as well.

Let us use this forum for good things to happen.

But if you still feel that the warrior in you commands you to take the sword and cross it with all those attackers in the other religions and castes, who can stop you? But I will request you not to wean away the handful that is available for pursuing the constructive path for the welfare of the Tamil Brahmins. If such weaning away is done, that would serve the same cause as conversion to christianity in driving the nail in the coffin of the “Tamil Brahmins’ Cause”. I am sure you would be aware of the Project Thessalonica of the Christians. Weaning away persons from the constructive path for Tamil Brahmins welfare is akin to Project Thessalonica, where the aim is to convert those in the service of the temple so that there would be none to care for the temple and the temple and the parent religion would suffer irrepairably.

By the way those who partake (Orutthan and Chavundi) in the eleventh and twelfth day obsequies ceremonies (whenever a Tamil Brahmin dies) are also Tamil Brahmins like the Thillai Moovaayiravar. What good has been done to them? The vaideekas do not accept these practitioners as vaideekas. They get a pittance as dakshinai. They are the most exploited lot, by our own community. Do any of us know how they live and what their children do? Do we know the meaning of the mantras and ceremonies we do with them? Do we accept those ceremonies as being humane? Doing these, the departed soul may reach heaven, but will the Karta reach heaven? Let us ask these questions. Find the answers if we can. Correct ourselves and then we can attend to all those in the outer world.

Namaskarams

Appaiah

 

[KRS]

Folks,

Since I am a 'gentle man', I am addressing the following to you all and not to any particular gentleman:

1. There is now an Acharya Sabha, which very recently had a dialogue with the Jewish religious leaders in Israel and published a memorandum on mutual understanding while condemning the aggressive conversion tactics of certain religions.

2. The same Sabha is actively engaged in ongoing conversations with the Christians. I am sure it will engage in such conversations with other religions, including Islam, Buddhism, Jainism, etc., etc.,

3. This is the only way that will lead to common understanding in a country like India without bloodshed, where various religions live side by side. To say that Indian Muslims and/or Indian Christians and for that matter Indians of non Hindu faiths do not belong in India is absolutely wrong. Some of these religions came to our shores long time ago and got established even before the invasions. These are Indians, with generations living in India and have every right to practice their religions in peace.

4. There is an uncanny attempt to sully 'secularism'. Without the proper application of real 'secularism', India will degenrate in to chaos. What seperates our country from those surrounding us is exactly this principle of government. And dare I say that even the so called Hindu parties have ruled and will rule India only with this principle? The alternative is too scary to even fathom.

5. Any efforts by any other religion either to interfere or to diminish our faith should be confronted through the available legal means and dialog.

6. It has become a fashion for some to criticize the Mahatma without even understanding what he did. Facts are being twisted to show as though he is the cause for all the current ills of the country. I especially beseech the younger generation to properly assess his activities according to the times he lived in. How many understand that he was a firm supporter for the existence of varnas, especially the Brahmin class? He just saw that varna has become the twisted Jathis and a vast class of under privileged class of people existing that the others from outside have been exploiting.

7. It is easy to attach labels like 'secularists', 'lover of other religions' etc. The sign of intellectual inadequacy usually is to affix labels! We are changing the basic civilizational character of our religion through such hate and vehemence.

8. Lastly, just because one does not shout from the top of the hill and does not throw arrows against a bogey, it does not mean that person is a coward. Just because one says he is 'pious' does not mean he is; and just because one does not say he is 'pious', he is not! I don't know who gets the power to define one's brand of our religion and then brand everyone else as a heathen!

Pranams,
KRS

 

[Yavanashva]

1. The Chidambaram issue is an old one which was not resolved earlier. The Bhakthas are happy if it has been resolved.

2. This has nothing to do with the Brahmin community as a whole. The political parties of Tamil Nadu have hijacked an issue which is one of belief.

3. The question of whether the courts can hear or arbitrate on such complaints has been under discussion for a long time now.

I would like to bring to the attention of our members certain legal issues and developments which are pertinent to this.

The ownership of the temples was a big issue at the time of accession of the states. The former kings claimed ownership of all the temples. It was decided that the public temples will be treated as Public property. Some of the kings were given private ownership of some temples. The Padmanabhaswamy temple was considered the private property of the Maharaja of Travancore.

About other temples the general opinion was that all temples are Public property.

After independence a number of cases have been filed before the courts regarding the ownership of the temples and their property. Most of these cases were files by Brahmins and maths for control of the temples. Many cases have reached the supreme court especially where there was a dispute over the ownership.

Some of the notable cases involving famous temples are:

1.Vaishno Devi: This was under the control of the Brahmin Pandas. The Bhakthas were facing hardship in worshipping. When Sri. Jagmohan was the governor of the state, the entire administration was reorganized and put in charge of a committee. The temple has grown by leap and bounds. You will not find a single devotee who sheds any tears for the old Brahmin Pandas.

2. Panduranga temple at Pandharpur: A couple of decades back, devotees used to wonder when the temple will be freed from the clutches of the Badves ( the Brahmin Priests). After a protracted legal tangle, the temple administration has been reconstituted and now the devotee can have Dharshan peacefully. The Badves get a share of the income under this arrangement.

3. Kalighat Kali temple: Still under the control of the Haldars. But there is a committee constituted by the High court to supervise the activities of the temple. Still devotees wonder when Maa Kali will be freed from the clutches of the commercial interests which control the temple. Very badly maintained and the devotees are exploited.

4. Lalita Tirupurasundari temple in Tripura; this Sakthi Peeth after which the State is named had fallen into bad times. The income was being misappropriated and regular pujas were not done. The government took over the temple from the Brahmin priests and now the Pujas are conducted regularly.

All the temples were constructed with public money by the Kings. The Brahmins/maths were entrusted with the management of the temple. They were TRUSTEES and not owners. Over the years the trust has been betrayed by many groups. What we have to remember is the temple which has been constructed with Public money exists for the welfare of the Public and not the families/maths controlling them.

This definition of public temples has created problems for Trusts which have erected temples. If it is a public trust the HR&CE in Tamil Nadu claims that it is a Public temple and they are always ready to take over if the temple has good income. Many temples who have faced this problem have gone to the court and retained ownership by different strategies. Even when these temples were controlled by Brahmins, noone has approached the community for support.

In the temple owned by my family, we have stopped admitting members of the general public and removed the Hundi long time back.

My idea of writing this was to emphasize that such incidents should not be interpreted as an attack against the community. When Public funds are involved the courts have an automatic jurisdiction.

These are struggles for power. Temples are sources of Power/Money.

----------------------------------

I see that Nacchi, tries to bring in an anti-brahmin ethos into his postings by seemingly supporting Brahmins and portraying himself to be a Brahmin.

I do accept that one's community of criticized will bring about some changes but too much will dampen the enthusiasm.

Just my humble opinion, no offence meant.

 

[vanam9394]

Dear Vanam9394 Ji,

What is the import of your posting? Where is the humiliation? What should our community be protesting about?

I do not understand your posting at all. Can you elaborate?

Pranams,
KRS

KRS ji,

I hope you are following the news. Recently TN Govt. made a new law that allows backward / SC & ST people to become temple priest. My previous posting is an recent update on that . Dont you think it is humilation to brahmins and we need to fight it as a group ?

 

[kunjuppu]

vanam,

there is no humiliation involved here. before God all of us are equal. the priest is an intermediary, who is often seen in a bad light.

have you not heard the old saying, that God may grant your wishes, before the priest will?

it is good for the future of Hinduism, as we know it, for an egalitarian selection of priests, based on knowledge and interest. if anyone, whether he be born in whatever faith, wants to be a hindu priest, let him agree to the rigors of the training.

 

[malgova.mango]

Kunju anna!

Nallaikku prasadhama 2 ellumbu thundu potta nammalum nakkuvomla - ethu puriyama

 

[KRS]

Dear vanam9394 Ji,

My stance on this is slightly different from others here.

If the TN government has passed a law like this, they are interfering with the functioning of a RELIGION, which they have no business doing, on secular principles.

But Brahmins ALONE can not fight this, if all other Hindus do not want to fight this. So, one way to oppose this is to go to other Hindu communities, have a dialog and see if the Hindus can unite together to file a PIL challenging this law. It seems to me from far afar that this law is unconstitutional.

But if other Hindu communities want to do this, then, unfortunately in my opinion, nothing can be done.

Temple modes of worship/administration should be left to the local Hindu communities. If they want Brahmin priests as opposed to others, then they should be allowed to do so. One answer does not fit all.

I do not know what is the position of the Acharya Sabha or other prominent Hindu organizations on this law.

Pranams,
KRS

KRS ji,

I hope you are following the news. Recently TN Govt. made a new law that allows backward / SC & ST people to become temple priest. My previous posting is an recent update on that . Dont you think it is humilation to brahmins and we need to fight it as a group ?

 

[vanam9394]

I agree

KRS ji,
I am happy to note that atleast there is someone thinking in my lines. Your seniority in this forum has much weightage. Till now I only seeing posts supporting the TN DMK Govt.

I truly agree that TN Govt. has nothing to do with religious organizations like temples and Mutts. What if the Govt. makes a new law that head of all Mutts will be appointed by the Chieft Minister like Karunanidi ??? Will that be acceptable ? Why dont the same Govt. interfere in Church or Mosque and appoint Pastor or Imam ? DMK Govt. will never do that becs they respect Muslims and Christians more than Hindus. That is becs karunanidi knows Muslims and Christians are anti-brahmin. Till today, Church and Mosques are run by private parties and the Govt. doesnt interfere in their management. This is certainly a double standard of this "Pagutarivu" Govt. Moreover the Govt. has no guts to do it becs there will be riots in the state.

When previous CM Jayalalita brought a law that prohibits religious conversions, there was a huge protest by Christians and Muslims. They even went to Secretariat and met her personally to revoke the law. Certainly they have shown their unity when needed.

Why should we not show out unity? Why are we so reluctant to unite and fight ?

KRS ji,

I hope you are following the news. Recently TN Govt. made a new law that allows backward / SC & ST people to become temple priest. My previous posting is an recent update on that . Dont you think it is humilation to brahmins and we need to fight it as a group ?

 

[KRS]

Dear vanam9394 Ji,

You have asked:

Why should we not show out unity? Why are we so reluctant to unite and fight ?

The answer is very simple. Some of us can not agree to disagree on certain religious fine points and move on to unite as a single voice where it matters most.

Even within the micro world of this Forum, one sees all the throwing of stones, labeling, acting as though only a few of us carry the burden of Hinduism and Brahminism on our backs, saying such things like, if you eat this you are not a Hindu, if you marry outside the clan you are not a Brahmin (of course outside the religion puts you in dire danger of losing your Hindu identity), if you are a foreign citizen, you are not a Hindu, if you follow Swamy Vivekananda's words you will become an atheist, if you say a word that is true, but reflects badly on our community, you are a drohi to our community, etc., etc.

With so many sambradhayams and hues within our religion, it is a miracle that we are not physically at each other's throats like the clannish Arabs. This shows, we can still unite if we put our surface and ephemeral differences aside, treat each other as fellow human beings with dignity, even if we follow our own paths to Him.

But this requires patience, leadership, accommodation and above all a sense of humour. Such a Hindu leader, I hope will one day come.

In the mean time we should be happy with taking ever so small steps to help the unfortunate in our community in particular.

The Acharya Sabha I mentioned, I hope will become strong and will one day represent all Hindus. But then it needs to do a lot more work to overcome it's present image of it's constituency. I hope it can.

So, in the mean time, please get used to be united on certain things and not others, because of such varied philosophical differences between different Hindu communities.

We asked the British to create HR&CE, because as a community we could not agree. And that is still the case. And so a professed atheist givernment pokes it's nose in to the Hindu religious affair, with impugnity.

Pranams,
KRS

 

[vanam9394]

Thanks for your insight

KSR Ji,
You have said it very correctly. I think Tamil Brahmins are 'SHOW - OFF' people, focused in displaying their scholastic ability and high sounding words. Tamil Brahmins should get down to earth and deal with problems in hand than getting into vivid arguments among ourselves. When will that day come ? Brahmins may be extinct by then.

Dear vanam9394 Ji,

You have asked:

Why should we not show out unity? Why are we so reluctant to unite and fight ?

The answer is very simple. Some of us can not agree to disagree on certain religious fine points and move on to unite as a single voice where it matters most.

Even within the micro world of this Forum, one sees all the throwing of stones, labeling, acting as though only a few of us carry the burden of Hinduism and Brahminism on our backs, saying such things like, if you eat this you are not a Hindu, if you marry outside the clan you are not a Brahmin (of course outside the religion puts you in dire danger of losing your Hindu identity), if you are a foreign citizen, you are not a Hindu, if you follow Swamy Vivekananda's words you will become an atheist, if you say a word that is true, but reflects badly on our community, you are a drohi to our community, etc., etc.

With so many sambradhayams and hues within our religion, it is a miracle that we are not physically at each other's throats like the clannish Arabs. This shows, we can still unite if we put our surface and ephemeral differences aside, treat each other as fellow human beings with dignity, even if we follow our own paths to Him.

But this requires patience, leadership, accommodation and above all a sense of humour. Such a Hindu leader, I hope will one day come.

In the mean time we should be happy with taking ever so small steps to help the unfortunate in our community in particular.

The Acharya Sabha I mentioned, I hope will become strong and will one day represent all Hindus. But then it needs to do a lot more work to overcome it's present image of it's constituency. I hope it can.

So, in the mean time, please get used to be united on certain things and not others, because of such varied philosophical differences between different Hindu communities.

We asked the British to create HR&CE, because as a community we could not agree. And that is still the case. And so a professed atheist givernment pokes it's nose in to the Hindu religious affair, with impugnity.

Pranams,
KRS

 

[malgova.mango]

Dear Sri Vanam!

"Dharmo Rakshati Rakshitaha"

When our own members attack our religious figures, that too while they are doing the their duties deligently in line with their proffessional responsibilities, I can't help but to defend that.

I'm not here to " show-off " as you put it.

No trust has been established as yet. How to help?

People are at different corners of the world, even you want us to protest , we may not be physically available to protest. But if there is any lobby group asking for signed petition or some sort to lodge protest against the government on meddling in the temple affair, I will definetly sign.

Our native culture is brutually attacked, if some-one could articulate all the facts about reservation, cultural devastation that's being carried out - to some international justice system - I'm ready to chip in any help within my means.

We are also hurt, by the fact that we don't need any outside people to bring devastation to our culture - Our own people are more than enough.

regards
malgova.mango

 

[Saab]

Dear MMji,

We are also hurt, by the fact that we don't need any outside people to bring devastation to our culture - Our own people are more than enough.

The popular saying is: With friends like these, we don't need enemies!

Very sad to see concerted campaign in this forum by those who abandoned our heritage denigrating those who defend the Brahmin heritage. I once encountered a Christian guy who quoted the Veda to support Christianity and oppose Hinduism! I just kept off the devils quoting the scriptures.

We also should make sure that our discussions are cordial and friendly especially with people like Hariji who are defending the Brahmins in the enemy camp.

I salute you for your valiant efforts!

Regards,
Saab

 

[vanam9394]

Great idea

Great idea

Dear Sri Vanam!

"Dharmo Rakshati Rakshitaha"

When our own members attack our religious figures, that too while they are doing the their duties deligently in line with their proffessional responsibilities, I can't help but to defend that.

This forum is about Tamil Brahmins, not Tamil Hindus.

I'm not here to " show-off " as you put it.

No trust has been established as yet. How to help?

People are at different corners of the world, even you want us to protest , we may not be physically available to protest.

I am talking about defending our rights and our social dignity not physical protection. We are not at that stage yet.

But if there is any lobby group asking for signed petition or some sort to lodge protest against the government on meddling in the temple affair, I will definetly sign.

This is definetly a great idea. Someone should take the initiative and put it in action. We should show the rest of the world that we as Tamil Brahmins are capable of putting something in action. We should formally invite Brahmins in this forum and outside to participate in the signature campign.

Our native culture is brutually attacked, if some-one could articulate all the facts about reservation, cultural devastation that's being carried out - to some international justice system - I'm ready to chip in any help within my means.

I think we should try to solve it among ourselves instead of going for international forum.

We are also hurt, by the fact that we don't need any outside people to bring devastation to our culture - Our own people are more than enough.

regards
malgova.mango

 

[KRS]

Folks,

I Quote:

"The popular saying is: With friends like these, we don't need enemies!

Very sad to see concerted campaign in this forum by those who abandoned our heritage denigrating those who defend the Brahmin heritage. I once encountered a Christian guy who quoted the Veda to support Christianity and oppose Hinduism! I just kept off the devils quoting the scriptures.

We also should make sure that our discussions are cordial and friendly especially with people like Hariji who are defending the Brahmins in the enemy camp."

Again, What does Christianity has to do with what we are saying here? Who again knows who abandoned one's heritage? What is the enemy camp?

I can keep quiet. But I am not going to. Again in the name of defending Brahmin community and Hinduism at large, hatred and division is being preached.

This type of fundamentalism is dangerous. And I am worried about our youngsters absorbing this hateful attitude towards anything that this 'gentleman' deems to be not in his opinion in the interests of our community or Hinduism.

If I remember correctly, Nazism started exactly the same way. Pure Aryans, Hitler said. Impurity must be wiped off! So, it goes.

Sri Hari is to be supported here not because he is a born TB, even though he holds different views from us, 'he has to be treated gently' because he is arguing our case in the 'enemy camp'! What a case for judging a person!

There are two people who cry often here that their views are shouted out and they represent the 'orthodox' views of our heritage. Please ponder who is 'shouting out' who? Who makes definitions of who is a TB and who is not? Who starts with sarcastic remarks, without asking for clarifications first, and then answers 'you are wrong, you are wrong', without giving out proper explanations to such statements?

Who do not agree to disagree?

I am so sad, because all these words are coming from a couple of people who are supposedly the followers of Advaitha philosophy - which is supposed to promote oneness.

I would not have written this. But I would like our community to ponder what a couple of these person haave been saying. But if you want me to shut up, I will gladly do so. But I can not just stand by when these types of statements are made.

Pranams,
KRS

 

[hariharan1972]

Sri Hari is to be supported here not because he is a born TB, even though he holds different views from us, 'he has to be treated gently' because he is arguing our case in the 'enemy camp'! What a case for judging a person!

Pranams,
KRS

Sri KRS Sir,

Perhaps i didnt explain myself properly in the first place, which probably led Mr Saab to conclude that i am fighting 'valiantly' in the 'enemy camp'.

It is not a good idea to discuss my participation in another forum so very briefly i have to say this about my experience :

a) There is a strong under-current of brahmin hatred especially among those who swear allegiance with the KKK parties.

b) Mercifully they are just a handful.

c) What i encounter very often is 'rhetoric'. It is a case of 'You did it', ofcourse you here is figuratively used to indicate our forefathers/ancestors.

d) I have met many reasonable souls in the other forum who are NOT BRAHMINS.

e) There is this gem of a lady, christian by birth, who is such a kind-hearted, noble soul.

f) There is yet another gentleman, NOT a BRAHMIN again, but who assesses Brahmins fairly.

g) There is another gentlman, NOT a BRAHMIN who criticizes brahmins heavily but with LOGIC, generally irrefutable. I especially agreed with his view that 'Brahmin' is a 'state' and as such open to anyone who is prepared to face & succeed the 'litmus test'

h) There are some brahmins who have nothing new to offer but go beating around the bush.

i) There are some non-brahmins who dont fault brahmins in particular but they are of the view that religion (read Hinduism) is at fault.

So there are many perspectives in the forum. Frankly the topics there reflect the diversity which is one of the reasons i have stayed put despite few guys provocating. And let me tell you, i am no saint either. I write quite provocatively and i have earned quite a "reputation" for being a hot-head.

Having said all of these, i dont regard it as an 'Enemy Camp'. I see it rather as an opportunity to engage persons from varied backgrounds/viewpoints. Ofcourse where i need to defend "us", i do it to the best of my ability.

And a finally clincher to you, Mr Saab. I am a brahmin allright but not a Tam. Quite boastfully though, i have claims to "serious tamil knowledge" and have ventured into tamil poetry and short-story writing.

If you are condemned, i earnestly wish you are, you cannot escape reading (hopefully buying!) a book written (to be!) by me in tamil ofcourse !!!!!!!!!

 

[appaiah]

Dear Sri KRS,

I was also very upset at seeing sarcastic comments on my post. I was upset not just because of the sarcasm aimed at me, but because we believe that the words of the Maharishis and Acharyas are to be remembered for the goodness in them, the good messages that they convey; but alas, our own fellow Tamil Brahmin has stooped to the level of using these quotable quotes for passing sarcastic comments on another fellow Tamil Brahmin. What an abuse? If that be the case how to save the community?

When a grown up person (must be an accomplished one too) does this, what can we do about it than to purge?

I appreciate Sri Hariharan for his patient and humble way of facing sarcasm from another member. I do appreciate you for your doggednes and forthrightness.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Hari,

You are born in to a Telugu Brahmin family, but grew up in TN and that and your contributions here and elsewhere trying to improve our lot makes you a TB. You and Maha Periaval hold the same background of birth.

Thank you for describing your contributions in a different Forum. Open hostility and aggression in the name of avenging past ills makes things only worse. This is why I fully subscribe to your theory of not living in the past, but view history from a rear view mirror just as events that went by. Without this perspective, I am afraid, our community will not prosper.

It seems to me that God has blessed you with quite a facility in languages. I am looking forward to getting an autographed copy of your first work!

Pranams,
KRS

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Appaiah Ji,

I am sorry that your sincere and well conceived posting was subject to sarcasm and derision.

Your question about our (lack of) unity is well said. I will make sure to post whenever such tactics are employed or hate is practiced.

Again, this urge to convert others to a fundamentalist view point in the name of survival of our community seems to have most adherents from my own advaithin sambradhayam. I have not come across such a movement in the other sambradhayams. I don't know why. It is an interesting data point to ponder.

But, please continue your valuable postings even though a loud crowd of two shouts and jeers. You seem to have a wealth of knowledge about different things that would immensely benefit our youngsters, a la Sri Nacchinarkiniyan Ji, Sri Brahmanyan Ji, Sri Ranganathan Ji, Sri Hari and others to name a few. Some of these folks are quite orthodox, but I have never seen them approach matters with hate, sarcasm and derision.

Pranams,
KRS

 

[malgova.mango]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Dear Sri Vanam[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Thanks for appreciating my ideas, let ask our folks opinions in this forum – all they have to do is to "yes" or "no" for this idea to materialize. Let's see how it turns. - I vote –" yes" for signature campaign, to protest against TN government meddling in the temple affair.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]I'm also talking about tamil- brahmins, shastrigal is a brahmin.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]In India , with multi-party democracy in place, you will never/or damn hard to get justice – the issue will be covered in dust. This is my opinion, please re-consider. [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Thanks[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Regards[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]malgova.mango[/FONT]
[/FONT]

 

[malgova.mango]

Dear Sri Hari!

A gentle reminder, we agreed for open cordial discussions, so please don't expect any fight from me.

Regards
malgova.mango

 

[fire]

Need to realize the ground realities

Its fine to argue about equality , secularism, humanity etc as long as we have an environment in which we didnt encounter/affect us much. Nobody loves to hate others.Love or hate is mutual. Even a crime for self defense is legal I guess. Please stop talking about Nazis.How many of us will retaliate if a well bodied guy slap you in your face without reason and shouting bad words? How many of us can go to a village and successfully become a farmer? How many of us can fetch a pot of water from village pump in the summer?
My own experience is fellow Brahmins would advise you 'Avallellam apdithan.Dhushtaiya kandal thoora vilahu,Bagavan pathupar'.If somebody scolds you with your caste name with bad names and tries to pick up a fight , only other caste people will defend us physically and orally. My point here is, we have to understand we are ill equipped compared to many others and certainly there are differences on the ground. I dont need to learn Vedas for it. Thing here is to render possible help to who you know are good people as far as I know.

We cannot ingore facts in the name of secularism. If you bring a number of FC in certain jobs, why dont you bring the same number for all jobs.

'Five Dalits killed by uppercaste people' with a heading 'Dalits killed'.Very brutal incident.If you read inside it was because of a land rivalry.

But my question here is why dont we see other killings with a caste color?Is it not happening?Dont we have any atrocities against any other caste in this country?

Nobody is attacking with rockets if they bring garlands .


The situation on the political ground is not too different. The peace lovers can read the comments posted by members in thatstamil.com. They can attend some DMK meetings. This is what preached by people who are in power to the people. Why dont we counter it by putting facts on our side and as well as other side? It doesnt mean you wont have good people from Non Brahmin communities.I studied in Christian schools.I didnt like the school because of its policies.I didnt like many teachers because of the incapability.But their are very good teachers from Christian community , who might have got job even with their arch rival run schools.Very committed.They are impartial.But they cannot make the school and others impartial.But for that I cannot stop criticizing other people's wrong doings.

I sometimes feel the inspiration the cobbler has, the thirst of justice the poorest of poor have, is missing in our community.My friends have openly told me 'Thiese brahminical parties.we wont vote for them'(Though I had negative benefits whatever may be the party in power). These are 'communal forces.This is not good for country'. Have we ever openly criticized any party like this?

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri fire Ji,

Since you have touched on many points in my posting, my response is interspersed in 'blue':

Its fine to argue about equality , secularism, humanity etc as long as we have an environment in which we didnt encounter/affect us much. What does this mean? That 'equality, secularism, humanity etc., are applicable only when a community is not 'attacked?'. Why? Do you think that these principles are not universal? Do they apply only selectively?

Nobody loves to hate others.Love or hate is mutual. Even a crime for self defense is legal I guess. Please stop talking about Nazis.How many of us will retaliate if a well bodied guy slap you in your face without reason and shouting bad words? How many of us can go to a village and successfully become a farmer? How many of us can fetch a pot of water from village pump in the summer?
You are, I am afraid confusing self defense with 'love and hate'. Every person and the society has every right to defend himself/herself for their survival/way of life. What I am talking about has nothing to do it. To generalize hate applicable to every other religion and talking hate about a fellow TB on the basis of his/her citizenship and family life is exactly what I referenced. If you have read my posting carefully and other postings here, you would not have made this statement.
My own experience is fellow Brahmins would advise you 'Avallellam apdithan.Dhushtaiya kandal thoora vilahu,Bagavan pathupar'.If somebody scolds you with your caste name with bad names and tries to pick up a fight , only other caste people will defend us physically and orally. My point here is, we have to understand we are ill equipped compared to many others and certainly there are differences on the ground. I dont need to learn Vedas for it. Thing here is to render possible help to who you know are good people as far as I know.
Again, I do not know exactly what you mean. Your argument seems confused. As I said, everyone has the right to self defence as long as you are defending against the exact force(s) that are attacking, and it is within the law, as we are all living in law abiding civilized societies. Before you say that the attackers do not follow the law, I do not think that it gives you permission to not to follow the law.

We cannot ingore facts in the name of secularism. If you bring a number of FC in certain jobs, why dont you bring the same number for all jobs.
What this has got to do with secularism? Here my point about spreading subtle negative messages about secularism by a chorus of anti secularists seems to have worked! Religion based quotas are not 'secularism'. These are wrong headed policies that are disastrous in their implementation to acheive something, that everyone agrees as noble - leveling of playing field for all communities. But, please be aware that this is a policy of a government that has become more and more pseudo-secular.

'Five Dalits killed by uppercaste people' with a heading 'Dalits killed'.Very brutal incident.If you read inside it was because of a land rivalry.

But my question here is why dont we see other killings with a caste color?Is it not happening?Dont we have any atrocities against any other caste in this country?

Nobody is attacking with rockets if they bring garlands .
So, what is your point? Such news headings are the results of secularism? No one argues that there are elements in the country who exploit the divisions. But this is not just confined to one particular party in India. If you carefully analyze, you will see this practiced everywhere. Again, not related to true secularism.

The situation on the political ground is not too different. The peace lovers can read the comments posted by members in thatstamil.com. They can attend some DMK meetings. This is what preached by people who are in power to the people. Why dont we counter it by putting facts on our side and as well as other side? It doesnt mean you wont have good people from Non Brahmin communities.I studied in Christian schools.I didnt like the school because of its policies.I didnt like many teachers because of the incapability.But their are very good teachers from Christian community , who might have got job even with their arch rival run schools.Very committed.They are impartial.But they cannot make the school and others impartial.But for that I cannot stop criticizing other people's wrong doings.
I have never argued that everyone in every other religion are good people. Like all of humanity, there are bad and good people in every religion. My point is to make sure that we have dialogs with those who transgress against us, instead of starting on a war path against whole other religions. Do you disagree with this approach?

I sometimes feel the inspiration the cobbler has, the thirst of justice the poorest of poor have, is missing in our community.My friends have openly told me 'Thiese brahminical parties.we wont vote for them'(Though I had negative benefits whatever may be the party in power). These are 'communal forces.This is not good for country'. Have we ever openly criticized any party like this?
Again, I don't understand your argument here. Since this comment does not seem to touch on what I have posted, I won't comment.

Pranams,
KRS