This one is a gem. How right you are !!!
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This one is a gem. How right you are !!!
I have a feeling that all this non availability of suitable girls is over hyped.Girls are very much available. Only they have become selective in choice of groom
It is true that girls are more demanding than before and setting terms .
One has to realise that they are economically independant and they are looking for a more equitable relationship in marriage.
Most are giving them a bad name for their just demands for a better life after marriage.
When an existing order gets challenged, those who cannot get their way easily , start throwing mud
Girls are getting defamed for setting terms
It is true that girls are more demanding than before and setting terms .
One has to realise that they are economically independant and they are looking for a more equitable relationship in marriage.
Most are giving them a bad name for their just demands for a better life after marriage.
When an existing order gets challenged, those who cannot get their way easily , start throwing mud
Girls are getting defamed for setting terms
Raji Ram
Active member
No one can blame the girls. The general thinking is changing because women have started earning a lot!
The Qs asked are 'Am I a cook?' if she has to cook; 'Am I a washer-woman?' if she has to wash the cloths (of course in a machine);
'Am I a servant?', if she has to clean up something and so on. But the guys can never ask, 'Am I your chauffeur?' :dizzy:
So, guys better learn all the chores in the house and give a helping hand and establish equality to have
eace:.
The Qs asked are 'Am I a cook?' if she has to cook; 'Am I a washer-woman?' if she has to wash the cloths (of course in a machine);
'Am I a servant?', if she has to clean up something and so on. But the guys can never ask, 'Am I your chauffeur?' :dizzy:
So, guys better learn all the chores in the house and give a helping hand and establish equality to have
eace:.
sangom
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Shri krishji,
I know for a fact that many of the so called matrimonial profiles (of tabra girls) are floated by the girls' parents/guardians. They do so in the hope that in case a good "varan" comes up they may be able to persuade their girl to proceed further. I don't remember whether it was in this forum or elsewhere, a 'traditional' tabra girl as per matrimonial profile announced publicly that she was a social drinker and NV!
Hence none of the scenarios is imagined and/or non-existent and all are there for those who have the impartiality to see. In this forum itself one member has written that he has been seeing his neighbour getting beaten with the mop for his not having wiped the floor by the time the wife returned from work!
I am trying to tell the truth to SP not to discourage him but to ensure that he is fully prepared and is not misled by sweet sounding (Horlicks advt.) posts and then finally, if life turns out to be a night and day-mare, he will be told that he should have taken care to properly 'judge' the girl and find out her compatibility correctly. That may suit those who have a zeal to make as many matches as possible in the shortest time and take credit for the score.
sangom
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I very much appreciate your plain speaking. May God bless you!
I have no "sampling bias" as you put it, but since we came to know quite a good number of tabra people - friends, relatives, acquaintances, etc. - during our rather long life, and since many of these couples of our age have got their sons and/or daughters married, we have either a direct chance to get to know the state of affairs (of both sides, i.e., daughter and son's sides) or we get reports from the parents. Of course, you may, or rather 'will', in your present situation, say this is also "sampling bias"!
I don't know if girls carry, in their heart of hearts, any revenge feeling for the centuries of past suppression, but definitely, they know their market value today and are well aware that the man (husband) is really one notch down the ladder.
From your above post I can understand that you want to imagine a world in which things go according to your plans and desires, and get that world real somehow or thee other. Well, I can only wish you all the best. But, in case, there arises any opportunity for you to recall my posts and realize that they were not due to "sampling errors" That will be sufficient for me.
sangom
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I very much appreciate your plain speaking. May God bless you!
I have no "sampling bias" as you put it, but since we came to know quite a good number of tabra people - friends, relatives, acquaintances, etc. - during our rather long life, and since many of these couples of our age have got their sons and/or daughters married, we have either a direct chance to get to know the state of affairs (of both sides, i.e., daughter and son's sides) or we get reports from the parents. Of course, you may, or rather 'will', in your present situation, say this is also "sampling bias"!
I don't know if girls carry, in their heart of hearts, any revenge feeling for the centuries of past suppression, but definitely, they know their market value today and are well aware that the man (husband) is really one notch down the ladder.
From your above post I can understand that you want to imagine a world in which things go according to your plans and desires, and get that world real somehow or thee other. Well, I can only wish you all the best. But, in case, there arises any opportunity for you to recall my posts and realize that they were not due to "sampling errors" That will be sufficient for me.
sangom
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Shri krishji,
The catchword is "suitable girls" which presupposes a selection by the boy from among a number of girls. Today, in my experience, the boy has no 'power to select', it rests with the girl who selects him, whether it is a tabra girl or semi-tabra or IC/IR. This is not something strange or unnatural, it was there with boy selecting girl some 40 or 50 years ago. Nobody is blaming girls just because he/she tells what is happening around as in the famous song "aDuttAttu ambujattai pArttELA...". Usually parents who have sons to be married also have daughters to be married, you see. Hence, opinions cannot be one-sided.
Anyway, SP's case will be a test case for this forum.
Sangomji
I appreciate your apprehensions about arranged matches.
Some parents project girls as conventional or traditional to get matches but not many will project them as orthodox unless they are so.
if it is projected this way, they will lose out on good boys who normally do not accept orthodox types.
Hence the usage of this term in profiles is only by people of a certain type -like the prohithar class who are into vaidheeham or priests or from vedic patshalas or from
households
whom forces of modernity has not affected them too much due to their geographical location . Girls of these families might desire modern types but they are atleast
familiar with what orthodoxy involves.To some extent they will cope better when getting into orthodox househods after marriage
The numbers in matrimonial sites of this type are only very small [ I guess 3-5 %].
Ultimately, arranged marriages are a gamble.
as the song goes ' manaivi amaivadellam deivam kodutha varam'
Just because a marriage is finalised fast does not necessarily means a bad match .
Arranged matches done with elaborate matching of stars and horoscopes along with other criterion for selection and months/years spent on them could also be
disasters.
Sangomji
Though the girls these days have the right to reject the boys who are ready to marry them and do that also, boys still are able to get more than one girl of their
choice.
Most boys can easily shortlist upto three for final selection if the boys are well educated ,with good job and decent looking
So still boys can pick and choose.
Only the mediocre boys are left without a choice or an option
the interesting scenario is lot more girls than boys are well educated and employed, far lesser boys have comparable or more education and better jobs.
so it a skewed distribution in terms of education among boys and girls.
too many educated girls are chasing to get too few educated boys and refusing to accept mediocres. The approach of these girls is marry highly educated boys from
brahmin community if possible else take one from NBs or go abroad for still higher education and job and look for some better one from their own community there
if possible or choose another race or colour or religion there.
Thats is the crisis. No matches for mediocre brahmin boys and some highly qualified educated girls. Both are available for marriage in plenty.
The educated girls have increased the average of their marriage to about 28 years, Many mediocre boys in thirtees are unmarried due to increased expectations of educated
girls.
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shunyampurnam
Guest
Taking all the views presented here by so many people, one thing is clear to me: For a male tamil brahmin, it is best to avoid marriage completely if possible. My parents and relatives repeatedly keep telling how girls have become very shallow and treat their husbands and in-laws very badly. They use this as an argument when they keep pestering me about marriage. They would prefer to start looking right away and not wait till April. They think that if they start searching now there is higher chance that I will get a "good" wife and not a "shallow" one. I always assumed that they were just trying to scare me into giving permissions to start looking. Now, after reading many of the opinions in this thread, it seems that my parents were not exaggerating. I am 100% sure that tamil brahmin girls are not as horrible people as Sangom keeps saying but it seems that they are far worse than I thought they were. Even the most optimistic person in this thread (krish44) has conceded that ultimately arranged marriage is a complete gamble. In a few "arranged dates" and even my parents meeting her and talking to her, it is not possible to asses the character of a girl. It takes months or maybe years of acquaintance before you get to understand the true nature of a person. I definitely do not want to marry a girl of shallow character regardless of how beautiful or intelligent or educated she is. So, I have decided to try my absolutely best to try and convince my parents to let me stay single. If they are unwilling to budge, then I will show them this thread. After seeing the many opinions in this thread, probably they will change their mind. If even after that they still want me to get married, let them choose for me from a poor background as krish44 as suggested. I am not sure whether such a girl will be happy marrying me but I will try my level best to make things work.
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shunyampurnam
Guest
Actually playing video games a couple of hours a day has a lot of benefits! I don't know why people think video games are so bad. See the article https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/freedom-learn/201502/cognitive-benefits-playing-video-games.
Of course, problems arise if you play video games all day without other activities like exercise. I exercise on most days so I don't think there are going to be bad effects of 2 hours of video games on me.
I have also noticed that most girls do not play video games. In fact, they look down it for some reason! Maybe they are not aware that video games are now consider art. They are medium for expression of human creativity just like a books, music, dance, drama, movies, etc. Video games can be extremely thought provoking and challenging as well. If you have some time please the following scene from a video game that launched 15 years ago which I played as a teenager. It is eerily prophetic considering the Edward Snowden leaks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L_73vDgBjU. If your interest is piqued watch this another video from a more recent video game which is a featured exhibit at the Smithsonian American Art Museum https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uumf9anB7Hk.
Vaagmi
0
I am holidaying in Kerala. I am reading this thread. Interesting. Usually I don't like keying in with my smart phone. I intend to participate in a few days if I find myself to be relevant still. SP is very articulate and I like it. It won't be difficult for him find a solution to his real problem. My understanding is that his sharp intellect has become his burden. There are ways to handle this problem. I hope to be of use. LOL
Govinda
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Interesting thread and also interlaced wtih pre-judiced views.
Those ancient days, girls are brought up in a joint family system, and are taught (subtly, directly) through observations, discussions, physical/work responsibilities by their moms. The boys were mostly with the men and are also taught the similar ways - how to lead a
mature, wise, ethical, logical/practical life - through discourses, private tutoring, critical thinking in paatashAlAs.
But, the modern system is disconnected focussed only on science mostly academic and specific disciplines. Plus, they have never seen or been with group family system, and whatever they learnt are from friends (various cultures/principles), family(personality of mom/dad). There are no
ethical, behavioural, psychological studies/tutoring in the regular academic mediums. So, each one has become completely inque individual, with less tolerance for commonalities. Finally, everyone is left to deal with such varied personalities (as spouses, children, friends, colleagues, forum-members etc.).
We cannot expect a perfect person (bride/groom), when we even have differences within our own family (parents siblings). So, we need
to have some common set of principles, that the whole family agree upon or practice or comfortable with.
SO, everyone, needs to start learning the concepts behind the 'Theory of Mind', why and how people behave differently, and causes/reasons for such behaviours. The only way is to choose the closest suitable one for the family, and then work from there with knowledge/practices for observations, adaptability and constant-change.
Acc. to Vedic concept of mind, is that it does not put up a constant/monotonous play, nor that we are born sinners. Mind is at the center stage of variety of plays according to one's personality, family, situations/experiences, knowledge, emotions, distractions/influences, attachments. But, every self/Atman is a personification of expanding knowledge and bliss. And everyone is a knower, once the trick mind plays is realized. Unless, we understand the human persona as our scripture understands, we cannot accept change neither we help others to change/realize. I also agree that money/attachments that cause insecurity are the biggest barriers we need to remove from every ignorant person, to bring them to the light of knowledge (hence love/bliss).
So, either you marry or don't, you need to be part of that journey to know, adapt, change, learn and make changes in other's lives.
Without experience and knowledge, karmas cannot be expensed, and there cannot be progress in our cittam.
If every individual thinks like this, we would be uplifting more jivas towards the path to humanity, and later to realization.
Good Luck.
Those ancient days, girls are brought up in a joint family system, and are taught (subtly, directly) through observations, discussions, physical/work responsibilities by their moms. The boys were mostly with the men and are also taught the similar ways - how to lead a
mature, wise, ethical, logical/practical life - through discourses, private tutoring, critical thinking in paatashAlAs.
But, the modern system is disconnected focussed only on science mostly academic and specific disciplines. Plus, they have never seen or been with group family system, and whatever they learnt are from friends (various cultures/principles), family(personality of mom/dad). There are no
ethical, behavioural, psychological studies/tutoring in the regular academic mediums. So, each one has become completely inque individual, with less tolerance for commonalities. Finally, everyone is left to deal with such varied personalities (as spouses, children, friends, colleagues, forum-members etc.).
We cannot expect a perfect person (bride/groom), when we even have differences within our own family (parents siblings). So, we need
to have some common set of principles, that the whole family agree upon or practice or comfortable with.
SO, everyone, needs to start learning the concepts behind the 'Theory of Mind', why and how people behave differently, and causes/reasons for such behaviours. The only way is to choose the closest suitable one for the family, and then work from there with knowledge/practices for observations, adaptability and constant-change.
Acc. to Vedic concept of mind, is that it does not put up a constant/monotonous play, nor that we are born sinners. Mind is at the center stage of variety of plays according to one's personality, family, situations/experiences, knowledge, emotions, distractions/influences, attachments. But, every self/Atman is a personification of expanding knowledge and bliss. And everyone is a knower, once the trick mind plays is realized. Unless, we understand the human persona as our scripture understands, we cannot accept change neither we help others to change/realize. I also agree that money/attachments that cause insecurity are the biggest barriers we need to remove from every ignorant person, to bring them to the light of knowledge (hence love/bliss).
So, either you marry or don't, you need to be part of that journey to know, adapt, change, learn and make changes in other's lives.
Without experience and knowledge, karmas cannot be expensed, and there cannot be progress in our cittam.
If every individual thinks like this, we would be uplifting more jivas towards the path to humanity, and later to realization.
Good Luck.
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tbs
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tbs
0
hi
exactly....very true in recent scenario........i agreed with u.....better keep OPTIONS broadly....
Dear S.Purnam
I am constrained to respond as you are quoting me to say that since I think marriage is a gamble and hence you should lay off as an argument.The success of a Marriage
arranged or otherwise depends on the persons marrying and the extent of mutual accomodation to each others needs.
Again a girl does not need to be from poor family alone to be orthodox.
It can so happen she can to belong to an orthodox family belonging to a higher financial status.
There are many joint families who practise orthodoxy and well off . One can try for them.
One has to try for them genuinely.
It is not wise to talk of shallow character of girls . Everyone has many positive and negative qualities and traits.
It is sensible to find one who can match you and you can bond.
One does not learn swimming unless one jumps into water.
One can always stay single if efforts to find a suitable girl fails inspite of your parents/your efforts.
I am constrained to respond as you are quoting me to say that since I think marriage is a gamble and hence you should lay off as an argument.The success of a Marriage
arranged or otherwise depends on the persons marrying and the extent of mutual accomodation to each others needs.
Again a girl does not need to be from poor family alone to be orthodox.
It can so happen she can to belong to an orthodox family belonging to a higher financial status.
There are many joint families who practise orthodoxy and well off . One can try for them.
One has to try for them genuinely.
It is not wise to talk of shallow character of girls . Everyone has many positive and negative qualities and traits.
It is sensible to find one who can match you and you can bond.
One does not learn swimming unless one jumps into water.
One can always stay single if efforts to find a suitable girl fails inspite of your parents/your efforts.
renuka
Well-known member
Dear Shunyam,
Honestly I have never played a single computer game in my life.
I don't look down upon playing video games but its not something I would like my spouse to do.
I still feel the best mental exercise is reading religious text..learning Sanskrit or a new language etc..that stimulates the mind much better than most repetitive online games. In my free time I recite shlokas from memory.its not an act of prayer for me but I do it to enhance my neuronal connectivity.
Human memory is on the decline ever since we started using more online tools.
Alzheimer's and Dementia is on the rise and I am quite sure its becos we hardly use our brain to remember stuff as we used to do.
Now mostly we store stuff in smartphones/tablets/laptops but not in our brain.
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renuka
Well-known member
Dear Shunyam,
Do not fear that anyone can be shallow. The girl herself could have fear that a potential groom could be as shallow too.
I personally feel you are not yet ready for marriage.
Give yourself a few years..may be 2 years.
Try to delete all stored data in the cache of your mind with regards to how a future bride should be.
Try not to get too many opinions of anyone including parents.
The best is just surrender to God and ask Him guidance.
I am not saying God would choose a spouse for you..but when we surrender..we become more relaxed and have less fear and we would be able to focus on the finer things in life.
Marriage isn't all that bad...once you start having a regular sex life with spouse..most troubles would seem trivial.
The male and female energy needs to unite to function as a unit.
Most guys even forget their parents after the first dose.
So be happy...don't give up.
If the caveman had thought too much the world would never have been populated.
Do not fear that anyone can be shallow. The girl herself could have fear that a potential groom could be as shallow too.
I personally feel you are not yet ready for marriage.
Give yourself a few years..may be 2 years.
Try to delete all stored data in the cache of your mind with regards to how a future bride should be.
Try not to get too many opinions of anyone including parents.
The best is just surrender to God and ask Him guidance.
I am not saying God would choose a spouse for you..but when we surrender..we become more relaxed and have less fear and we would be able to focus on the finer things in life.
Marriage isn't all that bad...once you start having a regular sex life with spouse..most troubles would seem trivial.
The male and female energy needs to unite to function as a unit.
Most guys even forget their parents after the first dose.
So be happy...don't give up.
If the caveman had thought too much the world would never have been populated.
Dear P.Shunyam
These days boys aspire to marry young.
Only girls like to be cautious and selective.
There are two ways to live.
One reflecting ,planning , calculating , considering alternatives and finally saying no instead of yes and postponing to another time.
Other , simply deciding and accepting another on face value and jump into it.
Only those who dare and act positively do well.
Other type go through life plodding and complaining about the deal life has given them.
So behave like the caveman and take the best intelligent and good looking girl you can get.
If parents do it for you , you could say yes instead of no.
For all you know you may not regret it.
You know girls many times fear more than boys regarding marriage.
So you should hardly be the person to fear marriage
These days boys aspire to marry young.
Only girls like to be cautious and selective.
There are two ways to live.
One reflecting ,planning , calculating , considering alternatives and finally saying no instead of yes and postponing to another time.
Other , simply deciding and accepting another on face value and jump into it.
Only those who dare and act positively do well.
Other type go through life plodding and complaining about the deal life has given them.
So behave like the caveman and take the best intelligent and good looking girl you can get.
If parents do it for you , you could say yes instead of no.
For all you know you may not regret it.
You know girls many times fear more than boys regarding marriage.
So you should hardly be the person to fear marriage
OP
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shunyampurnam
Guest
Why would you not want your husband to play video games? Is it just prejudice or your opinion as a medical professional that video games are bad? Research seems to suggest that there are far more postiives to video games than negatives. And most the negatives of video games come only if you are addict and neglect proper diet and exercise. See http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fpsyg.2014.00260/full.
Good suggestion! Learning languages is very good for the brain. I have read multiple studies that say so. I have been procrastinating learning Sanskrit and French for years. Do you know any good sources to learn Sanskrit from? I have a book that seems well-written ( Samskrta-Subodhini by Deshapnded).
[h=1] [/h]
OP
OP
shunyampurnam
Guest
What you are suggesting is very practical. Behaving like a caveman is tempting but what differentiates modern man from the caveman is that the modern man often overrides instinct with reason. It is not fear (which is also an instinct) that is making me reflect, plan, calculate, etc. It is just that this is the way I am. Anyway, Renuka's suggestion that I leave everything to God is a sensible one. At the end of the day no matter intelligent or meticulous or systematic one is, one really has only a limited amount of control on one's life. The rest is in the hands of God if you are a theist or the random forces of nature if you are a rationalist. Let us see what happens.
OP
OP
shunyampurnam
Guest
Your tutorial is very detailed! Thank you! But your instructions do make me slightly uncomfortable in that their aim seems to be to maximize my chances of getting the girl to like me. In some sense, that is the primary purpose of the arranged date. But it would be really nice if people go to these arranged dates with mindset of learning as much as possible about the other person. That way we can make an informed decision whether it is worth spending the next 20000 days of our life with the person!
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