Genetic study of Ancestral Indians.

[Iyyarooraan]

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Here is the gist of today's issue of TOI under "Trends":

A genetic study by Harvard Medical School and the CSIR-Centre for Cellular and Molecular Biology tells that caste system here began about 2000 years ago. Different genetic populations from the North and the South began to mix with each other about 4,200 years ago and the mixing stopped about 2,000 years ago. The 2009 study is based on the analysis of 25 different Indian population groups and all the group show evidence genetic mixing of two ancestral groups – the Ancestral North Indians who are related to Central Asians, middle easterners, Caucasians, and Europeans, and the Ancestral South Indians, who are primarily from the sub-continent.
The mixing started at the waning period of Indus civilization, 4,200 years ago. There was no inter-mixing of the group before and they lived side by side for centuries. The inter-marriage stopped about 2,000 years ago about Manusmiriti time. The intermarriage stopped about this time – around 100 BC. The researchers say once the caste system was established it became genetically effective, and the mixing across groups became rare.

 

[C RAVI]

Very nice post Shri.Iyyarroran. Thanks for posting this article from TOI.


Some time before when I gave reference to Genetics and Lineage to substantiate the value of Culture, one member found my statement senseless and another member with sense of sympathy towards me, felt sad for me..

 

[prasad1]

Australia experienced a wave of migration from India about 4,000 years ago, a genetic study suggests. It was thought the continent had been largely isolated after the first humans arrived about 40,000 years ago until the Europeans moved in in the 1800s.


But DNA from Aboriginal Australians revealed there had been some movement from India during this period.


The researchers believe the Indian migrants may have introduced the dingo to Australia. In the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, they say that the fossil record suggests the wild dogs arrived in Australia at around the same time. They also suggest that Indians may have brought stone tools called microliths to their new home.

Genetic data re: Migration to India
Dr. Santosh Helekar writes about his findings.

The peopling of India is a contentious area of research and discourse, due to the debate on topics such as the Indo-Aryan migration hypothesis. Some anthropologists hypothesize that the region was settled by multiple human migrations over tens of millennia, which makes it even harder to select certain groups as being truly aboriginal.
Peopling of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While people of predominantly Caucasoid racial origin generally speak Indo-Aryan languages and people of predominantly Australoid racial origin generally speak Dravidian languages, it nevertheless remains true that ethnic origins and linguistic affiliations in India sometimes do not correspond. For example, Khasis and Nicobarese are considered to be Mongoloid groups, yet both groups speak Austro-Asiatic languages. The Bhils are frequently classified as an Australoid group, yet Bhil languages are Indo-European.

 

[Iyyarooraan]

Though the study tells a striking relevance, it also begs some criticisms to evaluate the genetic study.

 

[prasad1]

History of India: The First Indians Hari

History of India: The First Indians (What Our DNA Tells Us). | India First-Hand

"I am a traveler. I have had the privilege to travel within India and also many other parts of the world. Traveling is very important to us human beings. We inhabit this beautiful planet called Earth that is traveling on its orbit around the Sun at the rate of 108,000 Kilometers/Hour!! Irrespective of whether we like traveling or not we travel millions of kilometers every day of the year."

"There is another human journey whose itinerary and scale is becoming clearer day by day. The sequencing of the entire human genome in the late nineties and DNA testing of people from every nook and corner of the world (including India) is revealing a complex journey undertaken by our ancestors that has largely remained a mystery to most of us until now."
....................
"I am from Kerala and my family can trace back its history in Kerala to at least 125 years ago. But what the DNA results were telling me was that my ancestors most likely migrated to India from modern day Ukraine or Southern Russia within the past 5000 years. I share the same DNA markers with most modern day Europeans (and therefore North Americans). Genetically I have more in common with an European than I have with my fellow South Indians (over 99% of all human DNA is identical. The minor differences between us is what scientists are beginning to understand better)."

............

"The descendants of the first Indians still live in the Andaman islands and places like Tamil Nadu. People with the M20 marker and the Dravidian languages are also still here (they arrived about 30,000 years ago) and finally the Indo-European speakers (started with Sanskrit a language that has origins in places like Ukraine) and their M17 markers are also present (they arrived less than 5000 years ago).


There are many more markers present in India that shows migration into India and out of India. The study of human migration and population genetics is a fascinating subject. But this is just the beginning. But at least we now know who we “Indians” really are."


Or do we?


I am not an expert on genetics, but a student of it.

 

[sangom]

Now that it is known that endogamy was not more than two thousand years old, but our vedas and the earliest scriptures are much older than this, does it not become evident that our culture was preserved and transmitted for thousands of years without relying on 'caste purity'? Or, is it the case that our culture itself is only 2 thousand years old? Just from Jesus' time!

 

[ShivKC]

self deleted this post..Sorry for the misquote

 

[prasad1]

Hear we go again.
Do we have no topic to discuss other than CASTE?
Every thread leads to CASTE?
Ancient Caste,
Is this because people older than 50+, TB is preoccupied with CASTE? If this caste obsession is the only thing left in your future, you need help. LOL

 

[C RAVI]

Every other thread leads to revolving around CASTE!! Brahmin is also a Caste in Indian/TN society.

The best solution is to have all the thread topic and OP related to CASTE!!

LOL!!

 

[Iyyarooraan]

I am not sure but some how understood that Manu was a Dravidian. It seems there were more than one Manu. Which one was that the "smruti" was attributed to? In any case if Manu is a Dravidian, Brahmins can still have no objection.

 

[prasad1]

Manu (Hinduism) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The magic of GOOGLE.

According to the Puranas, the genealogy of Vaivasvata, the 7th Manu, is as follows:


Brahma
Marichi, one of the 10 Prajapatis created by Brahma.
Kashyapa, son of Marichi and Kala. Kashyapa is regarded as the father of humanity.
Vivasvan or Surya, son of Kashyapa and Aditi.
Vaivasvata Manu, originally Satyavrata, son of Vivasvan (Surya) and Saṃjñā.
Ikshvaku, Nabhaga, Narishyanta, Karusha, Prishadhra, Dhrishta, Sharyati, Pramshu and Nabhanedishta were the nine sons and Ila was the only daughter of Vaivasvata Manu.
According to tradition, Manava Grihyasutra, Manava Sulbasutra and Manava Dharmashastra (Manusmriti or rules of Manu) texts are ascribed to Svayambhuva Manu.[21] Manusmriti is considered by some Hindus to be the law laid down for Hindus and is seen as the most important and earliest metrical work of the Dharmaśāstra textual tradition of Hinduism.

There are, however, fourteen Manus in Hindu cosmology, since there are fourteen manvantaras or Manu-deluges, in every kalpa. The lawbook ascribed to Manu was compiled by one of them. The present era is the seventh of the kalpa and our particular deluge will be known in due course as that of ‘Manu, the Son of the Radiant Sun’.