God Exists

[renuka]

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That is what I am trying to get at

LOL! That's means you think like me..Therefore God Exists!

 

[arunshanker]

LOL! That's means you think like me..Therefore God Exists!

I am getting at something and you are trying to understand me that does not mean I think like you
ROFL Now are back to illogical ways

 

[renuka]

I am getting at something and you are trying to understand me that does not mean I think like you
ROFL Now are back to illogical ways

Dear Arun ji,

On 17th August I will be flying to India so I have today and tomorrow to type in forum till I come back so I am having maximum fun till I leave.

So better watch out when I am "crazy" mood I can get very illogical!!LOL

 

[amala]

Have a safe trip and good luck!

 

[kk4646]

Dear Arun ji,

On 17th August I will be flying to India so I have today and tomorrow to type in forum till I come back so I am having maximum fun till I leave.

So better watch out when I am "crazy" mood I can get very illogical!!LOL

Any chance ...to visit our city..?

TVK

 

[C RAVI]

Thanks I may be right or wrong at least somebody sees my point of view here in this thread

Dear Mr.Arun,

The whole world would unanimously agree with what is Faith and why it's called Faith?

The only things that makes all the differences are -

1) How much you go by your brain and how much you go by your heart, intuitions and inner calls?


2) How much synchronized is your heart and your brain?


3) How much of your personal life time experiences are enough?


4) How much are the efforts enough for you to conclude?


IMHO, based on above factors, one would carry their Faith on God or against God or toggling between the two, along their journey.

Just because Faith in God is irrelevant to Scientific Evidences, explorations and Logic, it doesn't mean that Faith itself is irrelevant and laughable. That is why and how Many Scientists were and are Theists. As well, that is why many are confused and wants to be Agnostics.

Choices and conclusions are ours and are based on all the above listed factors.

 

[arunshanker]

Dear Mr.Arun,

The whole world would unanimously agree with what is Faith and why it's called Faith?

The only things that makes all the differences are -

1) How much you go by your brain and how much you go by your heart, intuitions and inner calls?


2) How much synchronized is your heart and your brain?


3) How much of your personal life time experiences are enough?


4) How much are the efforts enough for you to conclude?


IMHO, based on above factors, one would carry their Faith on God or against God or toggling between the two, along their journey.

Just because Faith in God is irrelevant to Scientific Evidences, explorations and Logic, it doesn't mean that Faith itself is irrelevant and laughable. That is why and how Many Scientists were and are Theists. As well, that is why many are confused and wants to be Agnostics.

Choices and conclusions are ours and are based on all the above listed factors.

You have brought in science here
Heart is an organ and it has no role in thinking and intellect as the brain
It is not emotion here it is about evidence

 

[arunshanker]

Just because Faith in God is irrelevant to Scientific Evidences, explorations and Logic, it doesn't mean that Faith itself is irrelevant and laughable.

I never said that, I understand faith and the last thing I would do is laugh at faith
Most definitely faith is not laughable, if a person does that amounts to ridicule

 

[C RAVI]

You have brought in science here
Heart is an organ and it has no role in thinking and intellect as the brain
It is not emotion here it is about evidence

In a similar kinda situation, long time ago, in this forum, to substantiate my views, opinions, belief and understanding about human heart, I took great level of pain to find our if I can be right in my understanding of the heat. As such, I found one link and posted in some thread in this forum...


Here I go now, posting the same -

The Heart Has Its Own “Brain” and Consciousness - Stronger Mind and Presence

Far more than a simple pump, as was once believed, the heart is now recognized by scientists as a highly complex system with its own functional “brain.”

Research in the new discipline of neurocardiology shows that the heart is a sensory organ and a sophisticated center for receiving and processing information. The nervous system within the heart (or “heart brain”) enables it to learn, remember, and make functional decisions independent of the brain’s cerebral cortex. Moreover, numerous experiments have demonstrated that the signals the heart continuously sends to the brain influence the function of higher brain centers involved in perception, cognition, and emotional processing.

 

[renuka]

Any chance ...to visit our city..?

TVK

Will be in Puttaparthi.

Will pray for everyone here.

Hey Atheists,Agnostics ..whether God exists or not for you guys..you are still included in my prayer!LOL

 

[C RAVI]

You have brought in science here
Heart is an organ and it has no role in thinking and intellect as the brain
It is not emotion here it is about evidence

Scientific evidences are laboratory tested, that could be brought under human's control

God is not a particular substance, to be separately identified and verified. God is the Whole and only the Heart, that "can be" relieved from the external influences unlike the brain, can recognize God.

Believers in God can easily pass on the messages pertaining to God through analogies and personal experiences some way. Such things can never be brought in Scientific Laboratory and put into Scientific experiments and validations.


You have to use your "HEART" as your personal Laboratory, that could be freed from delusions and other dependable factors (similar to Scientific process) and find God, realize him and accept him.


The choice is yours!!!!!!!!!!!!


When you are using Science to be a Free Thinker and to see if God really exists or NOT. Why can't I use the same Science to show the contradictions existing in Human senses, where the Brain and Heart are interrelated and Often, both together, go through a sort of friction?

 

[renuka]

Originally Posted by arunshanker

Heart is an organ and it has no role in thinking and intellect as the brain

Dear Arun,

As far as I know anyone with a Cardiac Arrest can't think.

Circulation is needed for the brain to function.

 

[wrongan]

Hello,

Speaking of dogmas, I would like to have your inputs to the averments you have made, especially the two dogmas which have been reproduced in bold fonts above.

To the best of my knowledge we study "Sruti" to understand it... and Adi Sankara in one of his bhashyas has stated "that even if 100 Sruti statements say fire is cold, it does not become so". I can give reference to the bhashya, if there be need for it. So Adi Sankara did not consider that Sruti is valid, in the areas in which it is not a "pramANa".

So, what is the source or authority for these two statements? Secondly are you open to change your views when evidence to the contrary is presented, or are you dogmatic to the averments made by you?

Try to read full verses of ADI SANKARA and come to the thread.taking some words and leaving conveniently other portion does not speak well.Your reply should refer to contest where it is quoted

 

[renuka]

Scientific evidences are laboratory tested, that could be brought under human's control

God is not a particular substance, to be separately identified and verified. God is the Whole and only the Heart, that "can be" relieved from the external influences unlike the brain, can recognize God.

Believers in God can easily pass on the messages pertaining to God through analogies and personal experiences some way. Such things can never be brought in Scientific Laboratory and put into Scientific experiments and validations.


You have to use your "HEART" as your personal Laboratory, that could be freed from delusions and other dependable factors (similar to Scientific process) and find God, realize him and accept him.


The choice is yours!!!!!!!!!!!!


When you are using Science to be a Free Thinker and to see if God really exists or NOT. Why can't I use the same Science to show the contradictions existing in Human senses, where the Brain and Heart are interrelated and Often, both together, go through a sort of friction?

Well said Ravi..I fully agree with you.

We humans are too engrossed in the gross physical world that we forget about the subtle world.

Ok instead of getting so philosophical I will choose a simple example:

Before the microscope was invented..no one knew how micro organisms looked like.
So can we say that just becos we could not see micro organisms earlier can we say that they do not exists?

When most people seek evidence these days they are seeking gross physical evidence.

Not every evidence can be gross.
Some are subtle and "felt" hence they exists.

Ok now another example:

The feeling of falling in love is felt and not seen!

One may argue that the heart rate,pupil dilatation and increase blood supply that is seen when falling in love might also be seen when one surfs porn...but there is a difference.

I am sure you guys know the difference between Love and surfing porn!LOL

So same way..not everything is to be detected and seen with the gross eye.

Sometimes we can even see with our "heart"..the seat of emotions.

 

[sarang]

That is why physical eye is called 'ஊனக் கண்'

 

[sarang]

View of non-advaitic acharyas is - shankaracharya gave importance only to abedha sruti vakyas and ignored bedha sruti vakyas. Ramanujacharya insisted that no sruti vakya can be ignored and his bhashya links and explains seemingly contradicting statements in sruti.

Try to read full verses of ADI SANKARA and come to the thread.taking some words and leaving conveniently other portion does not speak well.Your reply should refer to contest where it is quoted

 

[arunshanker]

After some posts here and discussion I have decided that it is does not take you anywhere when trying to force logic in matters of faith
Science is different, it is based on observation, theory and empirical evidence and faith is different it is based on belief (there is no need for evidence in matters of faith)

 

[sarang]

In any discipline one needs fundamental postulates which are accepted as true - like energy or matter cannot be created or destroyed and are interchangeable.

As a school boy will not understand gravitational field or infinite universe expanding and contracting, but begins to when he reaches post graduate level, so too in religion.

For the faithful and devoted, faith becomes a revelation and natural and proven when a certain level is transcended by any means available.

Deductive Logic is a tool like any other, it can lead to correct answers only when the input premises are correct. It cannot be a universal tool for all fields.

Last week in maharashtra, the government was in favour of allowing a POK (pak occupied kashmir) infiltrator into mumbai, stay, because logically, POK (we claim) is indian territory. Strange logic!

Perhaps a revival of our tarka sastras will be more relevant to discussions on our gods and philosophical systems, as was done in the past.

After some posts here and discussion I have decided that it is does not take you anywhere when trying to force logic in matters of faith
Science is different, it is based on observation, theory and empirical evidence and faith is different it is based on belief (there is no need for evidence in matters of faith)

 

[renuka]

After some posts here and discussion I have decided that it is does not take you anywhere when trying to force logic in matters of faith
Science is different, it is based on observation, theory and empirical evidence and faith is different it is based on belief (there is no need for evidence in matters of faith)

Dear Arun,

This is the power of Maya...You can just never "Prove" God.
It is beyond the scope of the human mind.

 

[ShivKC]

After some posts here and discussion I have decided that it is does not take you anywhere when trying to force logic in matters of faith
Science is different, it is based on observation, theory and empirical evidence and faith is different it is based on belief (there is no need for evidence in matters of faith)

Dear Arun, who said faith/religion does not support logic?

you and i believe 4+3 is 7, but if i ask you to physically make me feel the number 3, you will go handicapped except by showing an inverted 'E'.

you should know, that, laws of logic is not confined to physical quantities alone!. Laws of logic is not alone confined to units of Mass/Length/Time (MLT).


You can always force logic and reasoning, in the matters of faith!.. Let me know what logic and reason your need to clarify any of your points.. awaiting.!!

 

[arunshanker]

who said faith/religion does not support logic?

I said

you and i believe 4+3is 7

I don’t believe, I know

but if i ask you to physically make me feel the number 3, you will go handicapped except by showing an inverted 'E'.

I will kick you three times you will know physically what is three ( just joking no offence) better still I will touch your forehead three times you will know

you should know,that, laws of logic is not confined to physical quantities alone!. Laws of logic is not alone confined to units of Mass/Length/Time (MLT).

Agreed

You can always forcelogic and reasoning, in the matters of faith!.. Let me know what logic andreason your need to clarify any of your points.. awaiting.!!

Not in this forum I have tried and failed mainly because as I said faith is based on emotion and not evidence
Like someone said “from the brain I think this and from the heart I know this” scientifically both thoughts come from the brain. Give me an idea/method logically to explain that heart does not think
This is an example there are many more
Another one here “..before Chris Columbus went on his famous trip that did not mean that America did not exist isnt it?”
This case I dont know how this is connected to the idea that God exists
There are logical fallacies like
Appeal to Authority – Eg A great person ( I don’t want to name it may offend someone) said in Hindu history so it is true
Red herring - irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue
Irrelevant analogy and many more

 

[Raghy]

Sri. Arun Shankar, Greetings.

This is really an interesting thread for me. I am the least interested in the discussion/debate and sometimes arguments about God. I have taken part in this thread before, but refused to take part in any debates. This thread is very interesting for me because, I can get an insight about most members here; the way they think, the way they believe etc.

Opinions are just opinions. We need not be right at all. I could be posting wrong things as my opinions day in and day out; who cares? Our life experiences teach lessons for us. For example, some of the experiences I received in my life may shake some of the members in this forum. So, we just can't say anything for certain; there is always someone who experienced differently.

I always marvel the rigidity expressed by some of the members here. Even if they are shown some times things can be different, they don't want to agree. That only shows theor narrow-minded nature. Nobody can do much about it.

For example, by the way, which is not connected to the above comment, let us take your own example. Recently you called an analogy irrelevant. It was quite interesting to see that coming from you. Nothing can be irrelavant for a learned person. We can always have a meaningful discussion. I used that same analogy to discuss to reinforce your point; that same explanation was used by Sowbagyavathy Renuka to reinforce her point of view. Everything is connected in one way or the other.

If we want to have a friendly, jovial conversation, we can always have one. There is no need to get frustrated at all.

You yourself admit you have less than 50% belief in God and further say that belief is further reducing. That means you have some belief in God. Even if you have 1% left, the whole thing may turn around and you may become 100% believer in God. Who knows the future? you may predict the future; but knowing is different from predicting.

I said I have zero faith in God. I said I am not devoted to anyone. I said I have no faith in any swamji or any guruji. But who knows what would happen in future? Let me show you with an example - Kindly visit "Philosophy and Traditions" forum. Kindly check out who is uploading "Sai Lives On" page... Yes, I am uploading those pages. My wife's eyes almost popped out when she saw what I was doiing.

Kindly take into consideration. Anything may happen in life which will turn the events upside down even for a brief period of time. So, curtailing ourselves with hard fast rules may only make us and make others unhappy. That's when discussions turn into debates and gets carried away to arguments. Have seen a few of them here.

I sincerely hope I have not overstepped in my message. If you feel I overstepped, kindly let me know; I will correct that.

Cheers!

 

[arunshanker]

Sri. Arun Shankar, Greetings.

This is really an interesting thread for me. I am the least interested in the discussion/debate and sometimes arguments about God. I have taken part in this thread before, but refused to take part in any debates. This thread is very interesting for me because, I can get an insight about most members here; the way they think, the way they believe etc.

True

Opinions are just opinions. We need not be right at all. I could be posting wrong things as my opinions day in and day out; who cares? Our life experiences teach lessons for us. For example, some of the experiences I received in my life may shake some of the members in this forum. So, we just can't say anything for certain; there is always someone who experienced differently.

True

For example, by the way, which is not connected to the above comment, let us take your own example. Recently you called an analogy irrelevant. It was quite interesting to see that coming from you. Nothing can be irrelavant for a learned person. We can always have a meaningful discussion. I used that same analogy to discuss to reinforce your point; that same explanation was used by Sowbagyavathy Renuka to reinforce her point of view. Everything is connected in one way or the other.

Difficult to agree especially “Nothing can be irrelavant for a learned person”
But defeinetly agree with that that "We can always have a meaningful discussion."

. It was quite interesting to see that coming from you.

There were some irrelevant analogies

You yourself admit you have less than 50% belief in God and further say that belief is further reducing. That means you have some belief in God. Even if you have 1% left, the whole thing may turn around and you may become 100% believer in God. Who knows the future? you may predict the future; but knowing is different from predicting.

Agreed

I said I have zero faith in God. I said I am not devoted to anyone. I said I have no faith in any swamji or any guruji. But who knows what would happen in future? Let me show you with an example - Kindly visit "Philosophy and Traditions" forum. Kindly check out who is uploading "Sai Lives On" page... Yes, I am uploading those pages. My wife's eyes almost popped out when she saw what I was doiing.

I can understand that

Kindly take into consideration. Anything may happen in life which will turn the events upside down even for a brief period of time. So, curtailing ourselves with hard fast rules may only make us and make others unhappy. That's when discussions turn into debates and gets carried away to arguments. Have seen a few of them here.

Agreed

I sincerely hope I have not overstepped in my message. If you feel I overstepped, kindly let me know; I will correct that.

Cheers!

Not at all

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

We talk of Computers quite often and it has brought revolution, etc. in the Universe. Some say
because of invention of Computers, man is able to go to Moon and other Planets and study
the earth and other aspects. But everyone has forgot the Computer invented by the God
which every human being possesses, i.e. the Brain. But for God, this System would not operate
in a human being or an animal.

It simultaneously processes many amazing information and details with nobody dictating to it
or operating a Key board. It observes all the objects one see and their colours, measurement,
weight, volume, etc. besides its capacity, whether it is capable of operating or utilising it, etc.
Similarly everyone observe temperature, wind speed, atmospheric dust like pollution, etc besides
rain, winter and other climates, etc. It also makes a person to realize the difference between a person walking
with a shoe or without and the surface on which one walks, including water, marshy terrain,
mountain or hill, snowy area, etc. Above all, if a person moves in an area, where the temperature
is high, immediately he/she realizes the dryness of the tongue without water, may be saliva, less
or so. It does not stop with that. It tries to hold all types of bad or good emotions, thoughts and
including storing the past events and memories as a result of that. While at the same time, it
prevails upon a person to maintain track of the ongoing activities in one's body, breathing system
when one goes up in the hill where oxygen is less or temperature is too low, controlling the eyelid
movement according to the environment while controlling the hunger where food is not available
and facilitating the movement of the muscles in the hands of a person at a time. Some data says, that the
human brain processes more than a million messages a second or so. It has a processing system
to outweigh the important and unimportant things, just like screening a matter in a debate.
Above all it gives a dictum to energize feelings, happiness, sorrow, dream, plan, coordinate
and pursue and and relate the activities of the past, if there is anything like that. If one goes
through this sincerely, a person will certainly accept that God exists, forget the Robot of the
present day event, which is also God's brain has only invented.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[prasad1]

Brain has multiple functions. Each individual uses different aspects of their brain power. Even in the same field we achieve different levels of success. We still do not know the potential of the brain.
Computers can do some functions of the brain very efficiently. This gives the average person using an advantage over an extra ordinary person. Computer is a tool for humans. They are becoming "smarter", there by becoming more useful.
When man started using spears, his options increased, now he could hunt for bigger game. That does not mean that spear became more important than the spear-thrower. Similarly Computer enhances our brain, and is not replacing our brain.