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God Exists

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கண்டதும், விண்டதும்.

கண்டவர் விண்டதில்லை! :tape2:
விண்டவர் கண்டதில்லை! :sleep:

விண்டதால் நம்மை அவர்கள்
நம்பப் போவதும் இல்லை! :hand:

கண்டு கொள்ளும் வரை நாம் அவரை
கண்டு கொள்ளாமல் இருக்கலாமே! :bolt:
 
Ha, the lesson of this story is, God is like a barber, if you go to him and pay him his fees, God will do what is expected of him, like a barber who, if approached and paid his due will give you a hair-cut or shave or whatever.

A corollary to this story is, like a barber, if you don't pay his fees, God will not grant you what you want which is very much within his powers to grant. What kind of a God is this god?

C. Ravi's "Like" not withstanding, which is ubiquitous anyway, this is one of the silliest logic I have ever heard to assert belief in god. Hope you guys can do better than this in the future.

Cheers!

In spiritual learning , one should try to think deeper than what may seem to be enough. One should also try to look for the big picture than focussing and nitpicking on the literal aspects. In the above story , I would assume trying to seek God should be interpreted as trying to seek perfection. Unless we make an effort towards it we are not going to achieve it. It is like going to God.

The problem I think is, atheists have a wrong notion of what theists think God is like. It would be more helpful if God is not thought of as existing in flesh and blood in a heaven and trying to manage the affairs of the world. The right approach to understand God is to try to see Him in ourselves and others by working on the qualities that would help to achieve that objective.

There is no point and it is also ridiculous to take to task some imaginary entity whom atheists think is the notion of God of the theists. Also I am not talking for all theists but only the pov of those who think that non-dualism is the reality. Other theists I am sure will find concordance with this idea at one level or the other.
 
கண்டதும், விண்டதும்.

கண்டவர் விண்டதில்லை! :tape2:
விண்டவர் கண்டதில்லை! :sleep:

விண்டதால் நம்மை அவர்கள்
நம்பப் போவதும் இல்லை! :hand:

கண்டு கொள்ளும் வரை நாம் அவரை
கண்டு கொள்ளாமல் இருக்கலாமே! :bolt:


Seing this post in Tamil, I wanted to quote the old Tamil song, ""கடவுள் ஏன் கல்லானார் மனம் கல்லாய்ப் போன மனிதர்களாலே!"

Meaning: God became a stone because of people with stone-like heart.
 
Seing this post in Tamil, I wanted to quote the old Tamil song, ""கடவுள் ஏன் கல்லானார் மனம் கல்லாய்ப் போன மனிதர்களாலே!"

Meaning: God became a stone because of people with stone-like heart.


Whenever similar post occurs I quote Kannadasan. I repeat same here...


" பூஜ்ஜியத்துக்குள்ளே ஒரு ராஜ்ஜியத்தை ஆண்டுகொண்டு
புரியாமலே இருப்பான் ஒருவன்
அவனை புரிந்துகொண்டால் அதுவே இறைவன் "

Any more simple explanation?

Similarly, Thiru Kripananda Variyaar used to say it is easy to be a 'Naasthika'.But very difficult to be 'Aasthika'. All what a naasthika has to say is "No'. I am not convinced.otherwise show me".

But what all efforts and logic and arguments the 'aasthika' has to put forth.
It continues so...
 
தொன்று தொட்டு வரும் கேள்வி!

உண்டென்று சொல்பவர்க்கு உண்டு!
இல்லை என்று சொல்பவர்க்கு இல்லை!

உருவம் உண்டென்றால் உருவம் உண்டு!
உருவம் இல்லையென்றால் அருவம் ஆம்.

உருவம் உண்டென்று தடவினால்
உருவம் கைகளில் தட்டுப்படுமாம்.

அருவம் என எண்ணித் தடவினால்
ஆகாசம் மட்டுமே அங்கிருக்குமாம்!

முருகன் என மனதில் எண்ணினால்
முருகன் வடிவில் முன் நிற்பான் அவன்!

அன்னையாக எண்ணினால் நம்முன்
அபிராமி அன்னை காட்சி அளிப்பாள்.

தந்தையாக எண்ணினால் அக்கணமே
தாமதம் இன்றி நிற்பான் தயாபரன்.

இல்லை இல்லை என்று கூறுபவரை
எள்ளி நகையாடி இல்லாமல் மறைவான்!

அன்னை தந்தை இன்றி ஜனனம் இல்லை!
அவன் அருள் இன்றி எதுவுமே இல்லை!!
:hail:
 
Seing this post in Tamil, I wanted to quote the old Tamil song, ""கடவுள் ஏன் கல்லானார் மனம் கல்லாய்ப் போன மனிதர்களாலே!"

Meaning: God became a stone because of people with stone-like heart.

Wonderful! How pithy!!
 
!

.....
Anyone wanting to debate must please catch up some concepts on multilevel logic functions, Syad Logic, logic of doubt, quantum logic, [..........] you will know the binary logic deduction of "there is no god because it can't be proven" is a circular and self-referential argument.
This is what I was talking about, throwing up some vague statements as though they will somehow make one's position logically tenable.

First and foremost, it is Logic 101 that one who makes a positive statement like "There is God" has the onus to prove the reality of that statement. If it cannot be proved then it is illogical to keep claiming the statement is true. Logically, the best conclusion one can make is "I don't know".

I have stated my own position many times. I shall repeat it here, (i) there is no personal god who cares about human affairs, this is readily seen, and (ii) a supernatural creator deity is illogical because it leads to who created this deity -- an infinite regress. If the counter argument is that humans don't have the required perception, then I say, alright, in that case we can only be agnostic, i.e. we can never answer this question definitively.

Siva, I appreciate your response, I have no problem with what you have stated.

Ravi, I don't mean any disrespect, you do give out "Likes" quite liberally, sometimes to both sides an argument. Renu also observed this. Take it easy brother.

Renu, When I saw this thread I was not licking my chops. Go ahead and read the OP and you will see that it is intended as a critique of atheism. This happens on a regular basis, someone or another comes up with some "cute" (silly) story that is supposed to show how idiotic atheism is.

sravna, I hear you, but I don't think we need a God to strive to be good. In fact, often faith in god is an impediment.

Cheers!
 
a supernatural creator deity is illogical because it leads to who created this deity

Sorry, it does NOT lead to that conclusion. Self-referential or circular arguments occur only in Binary Logic that most people are brainwashed with. Consistent and Superior Logical FrameWorks EXIST and it takes considerable effort to shed the old brain conditioning with True/False logic before learning them. I have given some pointers about it in an earlier post.

Further, "creation" is an event in time-scale. I have also shown earlier that to understand God one must learn to think in time-independent logic otherwise, one should question the origin of Time before questioning the origin of God.
 
This is what I was talking about, throwing up some vague statements as though they will somehow make one's position logically tenable.

First and foremost, it is Logic 101 that one who makes a positive statement like "There is God" has the onus to prove the reality of that statement. If it cannot be proved then it is illogical to keep claiming the statement is true. Logically, the best conclusion one can make is "I don't know".

I have stated my own position many times. I shall repeat it here, (i) there is no personal god who cares about human affairs, this is readily seen, and (ii) a supernatural creator deity is illogical because it leads to who created this deity -- an infinite regress. If the counter argument is that humans don't have the required perception, then I say, alright, in that case we can only be agnostic, i.e. we can never answer this question definitively.

Siva, I appreciate your response, I have no problem with what you have stated.

Ravi, I don't mean any disrespect, you do give out "Likes" quite liberally, sometimes to both sides an argument. Renu also observed this. Take it easy brother.

Renu, When I saw this thread I was not licking my chops. Go ahead and read the OP and you will see that it is intended as a critique of atheism. This happens on a regular basis, someone or another comes up with some "cute" (silly) story that is supposed to show how idiotic atheism is.

sravna, I hear you, but I don't think we need a God to strive to be good. In fact, often faith in god is an impediment.

Cheers!

Dear Shri Nara,

I think logic has its limitations. It is useful only in cases that are verifiable in the physical world. Personal experiences only, are outside this realm. But on that account personal experiences cannot be dismissed as of no value in the search for truth. We need to then ask whose personal experience reflects truth better? and try to develop a measure.

Shri nara, are you willing to reflect on that, the yardstick we may use to judge the quality of intuition? Is it whose peace of mind is greater which I propose or is there something else you can come up with?
 
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Ravi, I don't mean any disrespect, you do give out "Likes" quite liberally, sometimes to both sides an argument. Renu also observed this. Take it easy brother.

Cheers!

Ayya,

Renu could observe with her sense and I explained the reason. Now you had observed and expressed with your senses, for which I have again expalined. In future if any other member points this out, I will be again explaining with the same sense. of mine.

So Ayya, the point here is, I have not taken your analysis in a hard way. I have just expressed my self. You guys got the right to highlight me and I have my right to respond. Both you guys and me gonna be doing so in a easy manner.

No issues Ayya. Carry on with all your intelligent analysis..



 
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Dear Shri Nara,

I think logic has its limitations.

One of the simplest examples is

"I am a Liar"

This statement cannot be proven as True or False in Binary Logic. Nor can it be shown to be circular argument using the same set of rules. Such paradoxes exist only in 2-state logic. There are other logical frameworks that do not have this situation and they cannot be divided into subsets of 2-state logic either. Therefore, while 2-state logic is very good for old computer type analysis, not good to solve complex problems. That is why Quantum Computing became a modern field.
 
  1. TRANSCENDENTAL ARGUMENT, a.k.a. PRESUPPOSITIONALIST (I)
    (1) If reason exists then God exists.
    (2) Reason exists.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  2. COSMOLOGICAL ARGUMENT, a.k.a. FIRST CAUSE ARGUMENT (I)
    (1) If I say something must have a cause, it has a cause.
    (2) I say the universe must have a cause.
    (3) Therefore, the universe has a cause.
    (4) Therefore, God exists.
  3. ONTOLOGICAL ARGUMENT (I)
    (1) I define God to be X.
    (2) Since I can conceive of X, X must exist.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  4. ONTOLOGICAL ARGUMENT (II)
    (1) I can conceive of a perfect God.
    (2) One of the qualities of perfection is existence.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  5. MODAL ONTOLOGICAL ARGUMENT
    (1) God is either necessary or unnecessary.
    (2) God is not unnecessary, therefore God must be necessary.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  6. ARGUMENT FROM DESIGN, a.k.a. GOD OF THE GAPS, a.k.a. TELEOLOGICAL ARGUMENT (I)
    (1) Check out the world/universe/giraffe. Isn't it complex?
    (2) Only God could have made them so complex.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  7. ARGUMENT FROM BEAUTY, a.k.a. DESIGN/TELEOLOGICAL ARGUMENT (II)
    (1) Isn't that baby/sunset/flower/tree beautiful?
    (2) Only God could have made them so beautiful.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  8. ARGUMENT FROM MIRACLES (I)
    (1) My aunt had cancer.
    (2) The doctors gave her all these horrible treatments.
    (3) My aunt prayed to God and now she doesn't have cancer.
    (4) Therefore, God exists.
  9. MORAL ARGUMENT (I)
    (1) Person X, a well-known atheist, was morally inferior to the rest of us.
    (2) Therefore, God exists.
  10. MORAL ARGUMENT (II)
    (1) In my younger days I was a cursing, drinking, smoking, gambling, child-molesting, thieving, murdering, bed-wetting bastard.
    (2) That all changed once I became religious.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  11. ARGUMENT FROM CREATION, a.k.a. ARGUMENT FROM PERSONAL INCREDULITY (I)
    (1) If evolution is false, then creationism is true, and therefore God exists.
    (2) Evolution can't be true, since I lack the mental capacity to understand it; moreover, to accept its truth would cause me to be uncomfortable.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  12. ARGUMENT FROM FEAR
    (1) If there is no God then we're all going to not exist after we die.
    (2) I'm afraid of that.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  13. ARGUMENT FROM INTELLIGENCE
    (1) Look, there's really no point in me trying to explain the whole thing to you stupid atheists; it's too complicated for you to understand. God exists whether you like it or not.
    (2) Therefore, God exists.
  14. ARGUMENT FROM UNINTELLIGENCE
    (1) Okay, I don't pretend to be as intelligent as you guys — you're obviously very well read. But I read the Geeta, and nothing you say can convince me that God does not exist.
    (2) Therefore, God exists.
  15. ARGUMENT FROM BELIEF
    (1) If God exists, then I should believe in Him.
    (2) I believe in God.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  16. ARGUMENT FROM INTIMIDATION, a.k.a. TOMAS DE TORQUEMADA'S ARGUMENT
    (1) See this bonfire?
    (2) Therefore, God exists.
  17. PARENTAL ARGUMENT
    (1) My mommy and daddy told me that God exists.
    (2) Therefore, God exists.
  18. ARGUMENT FROM NUMBERS
    (1) Billions of people believe in God.
    (2) They can't all be wrong, can they?
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  19. ARGUMENT FROM ABSURDITY
    (1) Maranathra!
    (2) Therefore, God exists.
  20. ARGUMENT FROM ECONOMY
    (1) God exists, you bastards!
    (2) Therefore, God exists.
  21. BOATWRIGHT'S ARGUMENT
    (1) Ha ha ha.
    (2) Therefore, God exists.
 
  1. ARGUMENT FROM GUITAR MASTERY
    (1) Eric Clapton is God.
    (2) Therefore, God exists.
  2. ARGUMENT FROM INTERNET AUTHORITY
    (1) There is a website that successfully argues for the existence of God.
    (2) Here is the URL.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  3. ARGUMENT FROM INCOMPREHENSIBILITY
    (1) Flabble glurk zoom boink blubba snurgleschnortz ping!
    (2) No one has ever refuted (1).
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  4. ARGUMENT FROM AMERICAN EVANGELISM
    (1) Telling people that God exists makes me filthy rich.
    (2) Therefore, God exists.
  5. ARGUMENT FROM BLINDNESS (I)
    (1) Atheists are spiritually blind.
    (2) Therefore, God exists.
  6. ARGUMENT FROM BLINDNESS (II)
    (1) God is love.
    (2) Love is blind.
    (3) Stevie Wonder is blind.
    (4) Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
    (5) Therefore, God exists.
  7. ARGUMENT FROM FALLIBILITY
    (1) Human reasoning is inherently flawed.
    (2) Therefore, there is no reasonable way to challenge a proposition.
    (3) I propose that God exists.
    (4) Therefore, God exists.
  8. ARGUMENT FROM SMUGNESS
    (1) God exists.
    (2) I don't give a crap whether you believe it or not; I have better things to do than to try to convince you morons.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  9. ARGUMENT FROM META-SMUGNESS
    (1) Fuck you.
    (2) Therefore, God exists.
  10. ARGUMENT FROM MANIFESTATIONS
    (1) If you turn your head sideways and squint a little, you can see an image of a bearded face in that tortilla.
    (2) Therefore, God exists.
  11. SLATHER'S ARGUMENT
    (1) My toaster is God.
    (2) Therefore, God exists.
  12. ARGUMENT FROM INCOMPLETE DEVASTATION
    (1) A plane crashed killing 143 passengers and crew.
    (2) But one child survived with only third-degree burns.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  13. ARGUMENT FROM POSSIBLE WORLDS
    (1) If things had been different, then things would be different.
    (2) That would be bad.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  14. ARGUMENT FROM SHEER WILL
    (1) I DO believe in God! I DO believe in God! I do I do I do I DO believe in God!
    (2) Therefore, God exists..
  1. ARGUMENT FROM POST-DEATH EXPERIENCE
    (1) Person X died an atheist.
    (2) He now realizes his mistake.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  2. ARGUMENT FROM EMOTIONAL BLACKMAIL
    (1) God loves you.
    (2) How could you be so heartless to not believe in him?
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
 
  1. OPRAH'S ARGUMENT (I)
    (1) The human spirit exists.
    (2) Therefore, God exists.
  2. OPRAH'S ARGUMENT (II)
    (1) Check out this video segment.
    (2) Now how can anyone watch that and NOT believe in God?
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  3. CALVIN'S ARGUMENT, a.k.a. TERTULLIAN'S ARGUMENT
    (1) If God exists, then he will let me watch you be tortured forever.
    (2) I rather like that idea.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  4. ARGUMENT FROM CROCKERY
    (1) Pots don't go around giving orders to the potter.
    (2) Therefore, God exists.
  5. ARGUMENT FROM MASS PRODUCTION, a.k.a. ARGUMENT FROM PLASTIC DESIGN
    (1) Barbie dolls were created.
    (2) If Barbie dolls were created, then so were trees.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  6. ARGUMENT FROM PAROCHIALISM
    (1) God is everywhere.
    (2) We haven't been everywhere to prove he's not there.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  7. ARGUMENT FROM UPPERCASE ASSERTION
    (1) GOD EXISTS! GET USED TO IT!
    (2) Therefore, God exists.
  8. ARGUMENT FROM INFINITE REGRESS, a.k.a. FIRST CAUSE ARGUMENT (II)
    (1) Ask atheists what caused the Big Bang.
    (2) Regardless of their answer, ask how they know this.
    (3) Continue process until the atheist admits he doesn't know the answer to one of your questions.
    (4) You win!
    (5) Therefore, God exists.
  9. ARGUMENT FROM INCREDULITY (II)
    (1) How could God NOT exist, you bozo?
    (2) Therefore, God exists.
 
  1. ARGUMENT FROM RESURRECTION
    (1) Proof of God's existence will be available when you rise bodily from your grave.
    (2) Therefore, God exists.
  2. ARGUMENT FROM BIOGENESIS
    (1) Where did Adam come from, dummy?
    (2) Therefore, God exists.
  3. ARGUMENT FROM STEADFAST FAITH
    (1) A lot of really cool people believed in God their entire lives.
    (2) Therefore, God exists.

  1. ARGUMENT FROM ARGUMENTATION
    (1) God exists.
    (2) [Atheist's counterargument]
    (3) Yes he does.
    (4) [Atheist's counterargument]
    (5) Yes he does!
    (6) [Atheist's counterargument]
    (7) YES HE DOES!!!
    (8) [Atheist gives up and goes home.]
    (9) Therefore, God exists.
  2. ARGUMENT FROM CREATIVE INTERPRETATION
    (1) God is:
    (a) The feeling you have when you look at a newborn baby.
    (b) The love of a mother for her child.
    (c) That little still voice in your heart.
    (d) Humankind's potential to overcome their difficulties.
    (e) How I feel when I look at a sunset.
    (f) The taste of ice cream on a hot day.
    (2) Therefore, God exists.
  3. ARGUMENT FROM INSECURITY
    (1) We have gone to absolutely berserk lengths to establish that atheists are laughable morons.
    (1.5) Actually, we did so in the hopes of curing our own insecurities about theism — but there's no chance in hell we'll ever admit that.
    (2) Therefore, atheists are laughable morons.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  4. ARGUMENT FROM SUPERIORITY
    (1) If God does not exist, then I am an inferior being, since I am not "special" in a cosmic sense.
    (2) But I am superior because I am a Hindu.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  5. ARGUMENT FROM ABSOLUTE MORAL STANDARDS
    (1) If there are absolute moral standards, then God exists.
    (2) Atheists say that there are no absolute moral standards.
    (3) But that's because they don't want to admit to being sinners.
    (4) Therefore, there are absolute moral standards.
    (5) Therefore, God exists.
  6. ARGUMENT FROM HUMAN NECESSITY
    (1) Atheists say that they don't need God.
    (2) Which just goes to show that they need God.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.

  1. ARGUMENT FROM HIDDEN LOGIC (II)
    (1) Atheists say that God doesn't exist.
    (2) But they only say that because they want to look cool and intellectual in front of their peers.
    (3) They don't fool me!
    (4) Therefore, God exists.
  2. ARGUMENT FROM INDULGENCE
    (1) Atheists like to think that they can control their emotional desires.
    (2) But they're atheists, so they can't.
    (3) Therefore, atheists feel the need to indulge in whatever they feel like without worrying about committing sin.
    (4) This just goes to show how they need God in their lives.
    (5) Therefore, God exists.
  3. ARGUMENT FROM HATE
    (1) Some atheists hate hindus
    (2) That's why they don't believe in God.
    (3) Pathetic, aren't they?
    (4) Therefore, God exists.
  4. ARGUMENT FROM DENIAL OF QUENTIN SMITH
    (1) Quentin Smith says that God does not exist.
    (2) But God does exist.
    (3) Therefore, Quentin Smith cannot be accepted as an expert on the matter, because he is wrong.
    (4) Therefore, God exists.
  5. ARGUMENT FROM EVIL SPIRITS
    (1) I've just had contact with evil spirits.
    (2) Therefore, God exists.
  6. KENT HOVIND'S ARGUMENT
    (1) I don't want to work for a living.
    (2) I don't want to pay taxes.
    (3) I can get gullible fundamentalists to send me money.
    (4) I can use religious exemption claims to tie the IRS up in court.
    (5) The IRS can't send me to prison.
    (6) Therefore, God exists.
  7. ARGUMENT FROM KENT HOVIND'S CHALLENGE
    (1) Kent Hovind offers $250,000 (which may or may not exist) to anyone who can demonstrate evolution (defined as a natural, acausal origin of the universe) to a reasonable doubt (meaning with 100% certainty, allowing for no other possibilities whatsoever) in front of a neutral committee (handpicked by Hovind himself) and according to certain criteria (carefully worded so as to rule out any possibility whatsoever of the challenge ever being met).
    (2) No atheist has ever met this challenge.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
 
  1. ARGUMENT FROM EXHAUSTION (abridged)
    (1) Do you agree with the utterly trivial proposition X?
    (2) Atheist: of course.
    (3) How about the slightly modified proposition X'?
    (4) Atheist: Um, no, not really.
    (5) Good. Since we agree, how about Y? Is that true?
    (6) Atheist: No! And I didn't agree with X'!
    (7) With the truths of these clearly established, surely you agree that Z is true as well?
    (8) Atheist: No. So far I have only agreed with X! Where is this going, anyway?
    (9) I'm glad we all agree.....
    ....
    (37) So now we have used propositions X, X', Y, Y', Z, Z', P, P', Q and Q' to arrive at the obviously valid point R. Agreed?
    (38) Atheist: Like I said, so far I've only agreed with X. Where is this going?
    ....
    (81) So we now conclude from this that propositions L'', L''' and J'' are true. Agreed?
    (82) I HAVEN'T AGREED WITH ANYTHING YOU'VE SAID SINCE X! WHERE IS THIS GOING?
    ....
    (177) ...and it follows that proposition HRV, SHQ'' and BTU' are all obviously valid. Agreed?
    (178) [Atheist either faints from overwork or leaves in disgust.]
    (179) Therefore, God exists.
  2. MR. GOODSALT'S ARGUMENT (ARGUMENT FROM GENERAL INQUIRY)
    (1) Question for atheist population: [apparently random question]
    (2) Your answer is wrong.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  3. PEACOCK ARGUMENT FROM ORIGINALITY
    (1) I have written the following to demonstrate the existence of God.
    (2) [insert entire text of a William Lane Craig article]
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  4. PEACOCK ARGUMENT FROM LIMITED VOCABULARY
    (1) You use lots of big words.
    (2) Therefore, I cannot possibly be expected to understand your refutation of my position.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  1. ARGUMENT FROM PERSONAL SANITY
    (1) I've had religious experiences that can't be explained unless I'm insane or God exists.
    (2) Therefore, God exists.
  1. ARGUMENT FROM INEVITABILITY
    (1) I have proof that God exists.
    (2) I won't bother to tell you what it is because, being atheists, you would be hostile to the conclusion anyway.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  2. ARGUMENT FROM "THE MATRIX"
    (1) We cannot prove that we don't live in a Matrix-like world.
    (2) Therefore we cannot know reality.
    (3) If reality is contingent, then everything is possible.
    (4) Therefore, God exists.
  3. ARGUMENT FROM SUBJECTIVITY
    (1) Everything is subjective.
    (2) No subjective proof can be superior to any other subjective proof.
    (3) Based upon my subjective opinion, your opinion, that if everything is subjective then, perforce, God is subjective, is false.
    (4) Therefore, God (objectively) exists.
  4. ARGUMENT FROM POSTMODERNISM
    (1) I'm going to prove to you that God exists.
    (2) [Insert any of the other arguments on this page in here.]
    (3) [Atheist refutes argument.]
    (4) I cannot prove there is a God any more than anyone of us can prove we really exist in a tangible world.
    (5) Therefore, God exists.
  5. META-PROOF
    (1) This is a proof of God's existence.
    (2) If the reader finishes reading this proof, the existence of God will be proven to him/her.
    (3) If the existence of God is proven, then God exists.
    (4) Therefore, God exists.
  6. PROOF BY ANECDOTE
    (1) God can be seen by those who believe in Him.
    (2) If the God is seen, then He must exist.
    (3) I have seen God.
    (4) Therefore, God exists.
 
  1. BENDER’S ARGUMENT (I)
    (1) One day, demons were tap-dancing on my roof. I prayed and they went away.
    (2) Therefore, demons are really good dancers.
    (3) Also, God exists.
  2. BENDER’S ARGUMENT (II) (ARGUMENT FROM DAVID BLAINE)
    (1) If David Blaine does real magic, then God exists.
    (2) It looked real on his TV special.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  3. RANDMAN’S ARGUMENT
    (1) This entry from the 1975 World Book Encyclopedia on evolution contains some errors that I claim to have already substantiated.
    (2) Mr. Ph.D.-in-Evolutionary-Biology, this proves that evolution is an unsound scientific concept.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  4. ARGUMENT FROM MULTIPLICITY (I), a.k.a. METACROCK'S ARGUMENT
    (1) I have a large number of arguments for God.
    (2) One of them is probably true.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  5. ARGUMENT FROM FORTUITOUS COINCIDENCE
    (1) What are the odds of that happening?
    (2) Pretty long, I’ll bet.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  6. ARGUMENT FROM MYSTERIOUS USE OF PREPOSITIONS
    (1) It is impossible to disprove God with your puny human intellect unless you are above God.
    (2) Are you higher than God?
    (3) I’ll take that puzzled look on your face as a 'No.'
    (4) Therefore, God (being the highest thing ever) exists. .
  1. ARGUMENT FROM SPEAKING IN TONGUES
    (1) My friend here, once started spontaneously speaking some jibberish that sounded to me kind of like Russian.
    (2) But neither he nor I know anything about Russian.
    (3) The only explanation is God.
    (4) Therefore, God exists.
  2. ARGUMENT FROM EUROPEAN HISTORY
    (1) Many prominent thinkers in pre-modern Europe believed in God.
    (2) Let’s just forget about the nineteenth and twentieth centuries.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  3. PALEY'S ARGUMENT FROM DESIGN, a.k.a. GOD OF THE GAPS, a.k.a. DESIGN/TELEOLOGICAL ARGUMENT (III)
    (1) If there is a designer, then God must exist.
    (2) If I find a watch in a forest, there must be a designer.
    (3) [Throws watch into forest.]
    (4) Therefore, God exists.
  4. ARGUMENT FROM DESIGN, a.k.a. GOD OF THE GAPS, a.k.a. DESIGN/TELEOLOGICAL ARGUMENT (IV), a.k.a. ARGUMENT FROM PERSONAL INCREDULITY (III)
    (1) Isn't X amazing!
    (2) I don't understand how X could be, without something else (that I don't really understand either) making or doing X.
    (3) This something else must be God because I can't come up with a better explanation.
    (4) Therefore, God exists.
  5. ARGUMENT FROM OFFENSE
    (1) God exists.
    (2) [Atheist makes counterarguments.]
    (3) You know what? I am offended.
    (4) Therefore, God exists.
  6. ARGUMENT FROM PRAYER (I)
    (1) God exists.
    (2) [Atheist makes counterarguments.]
    (3) You have my prayers.
  7. ARGUMENT FROM AGNOSTICISM
    (1) I don't know and you don't know either.
    (2) Therefore, God exists.
  8. ARGUMENT FROM LOVE
    (1) Have you ever fallen in love?
    (2) [Of course!!]
    (3) So what is the cause of love? Isn't it God? Am I right or not?
    (4) Therefore, God exists.
  9. ARGUMENT FROM IDENTITY (PC ARGUMENT)
    (1) Believing in God is a central part of my identity.
    (2) You don't mean to deny my identity do you?
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
 
  1. ARGUMENT FROM NON-CONFRONTATION
    (1) I am not here to argue with you atheists.
    (2) But come on, God obviously exists.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  2. ARGUMENT FROM EXODUS
    (1) If the Exodus story has any basis in historical fact, then God exists.
    (2) Some guy found some chariot wheels at the bottom of the Red Sea.
    (3) There is absolutely no other way that chariots could get to the bottom of the Red Sea.
    (4) This means the Exodus story is true.
    (5) Therefore, God exists.
  1. ARGUMENT FROM TINKERBELL
    (1) I really want God to be real.
    (2) If you wish for something really hard, it'll come true.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  2. ARGUMENT FROM LACK OF DISPROOF, a.k.a. ARGUMENT FROM SHIFTED BURDEN OF PROOF
    (1) You can't prove God doesn't exist!
    (2) Therefore, God exists.
  3. ARGUMENT FROM ANECDOTAL EXPERIENCE (I)
    (1) I once experienced something I can't explain.
    (2) Atheist offers several possible, natural explanations.
    (3) You're just guessing! I was there.
    (4) Therefore, God exists.
  4. ARGUMENT FROM ANECDOTAL EXPERIENCE (II)
    (1) I have experienced feelings of God's presence in my mind.
    (2) Therefore, God exists.
  5. ARGUMENT FROM NEUROSCIENCE
    (1) Scientists say a portion of our brain may be responsible for mystical experiences.
    (2) God must have created our brain like that.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  6. ARGUMENT FROM EYEWITNESS (SOMETIMES FOLLOWS OR COMBINED WITH LACK OF EYEWITNESS I)
    (1) Someone wrote the creation story in the vedas & purans
    (2) That someone must have been an eyewitness to the described events.
    (3) The only possible eyewitness was God.
    (4) Therefore, God exists.
  7. ARGUMENT FROM LACK OF EYEWITNESS (I)
    (1) You weren't there to witness abiogenisis/Big Bang/etc.
    (2) Therefore, God exists.
  8. ARGUMENT FROM LACK OF EYEWITNESS (II)
    (1) No one's ever seen one species turn into another.
    (2) Therefore, God exists.
  9. ARGUMENT FROM HALF A WING
    (1) Half of a wing is useless!
    (2) Therefore, God exists.
  10. ARGUMENT FROM PREFERRED ANCESTRY
    (1) I don't want to be related to monkeys.
    (2) Therefore, God exists.
  11. ARGUMENT FROM FOOLISHNESS
    (1) atheists are fools.
    (2) I don't want to be a fool.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  12. ARGUMENT FROM PIG'S TOOTH
    (1) Some scientists once thought a tooth was from an 'ape-man.'
    (2) Later scientists discovered it was a pig's tooth.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  13. ARGUMENT FROM PERSECUTION (I)
    (1) Someone made fun of my faith.
    (2) God said that persecution would happen.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  1. ARGUMENT FROM PERSECUTION (III)
    (1) You atheists are mean!
    (2) Therefore, God exists. .
  1. ARGUMENT FROM CRAZINESS, a.k.a. PERCHANCE'S SISTER'S ARGUMENT (I)
    (1) I would go crazy if I didn't believe in God.
    (2) I am not crazy, and don't want to go crazy.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  2. MRS. POPE'S ARGUMENT FROM CHOCOLATE
    (1) Chocolate is God's gift to humanity.
    (2) Therefore, God exists.
    (3) Now class, would anyone like to attempt an Argument From Beer?
  1. ARGUMENT FROM INTEREST
    (1) If God really doesn’t exist than atheists wouldn’t spend so much time talking about him.
    (2) [Atheist refutes (1).]
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  2. REID’S ARGUMENT
    (1) You assume that your senses are reliable even though you can’t prove it.
    (2) That means I get to assume anything I want.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  1. ARGUMENT FROM FREE GIFT,
    (1) If some guy came up to you on the street and offered you a billion dollars for nothing in return, would you take the money or deny his existence?
    (2) Therefore, God exists.
  2. ARGUMENT FROM CHARITY
    (1) Atheists don’t build hospitals.
    (2) [Atheist points out Bill Gates and Ted Turner, who donate billions of dollars to charity.]
    (3) Yes, but do they build hospitals?
    (4) Therefore, God exists.
  3. ARGUMENT FROM SERIOUS ASSERTION
    (1) God exists.
    (2) No, seriously.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  4. ARGUMENT FROM POSITIVE OUTCOME
    (1) Even if God doesn’t exist, it would be better if people believed He did.
    (2) Therefore, God exists.
  5. ARGUMENT FROM LACK OF EVIDENCE (I)
    (1) I believe that if God exists, there will be no evidence for his existence.
    (2) There is no evidence for the existence of God.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
  6. ARGUMENT FROM LACK OF EVIDENCE (II) (MODIFIED SIMPSON’S ARGUMENT)
    (1) God, if you exist, please give me absolutely no sign.
    (2)
    (3) Therefore, God exists.
 
the first easiest question any atheist would pose is 'who created god, if god is the cause for creation, who is his cause? -- looks like an infinite regression!! sadly,this is a debate at a very primary level, though it gives a great appeal at the first sight.


god is called ஆதி பகவான், and is beyond time-space. universe needed a cause, because it was started in a time, in a finite time, which is what the big-bang says so. since god is defined beyond time-space, he don't need a cause for himself, and he himself is the definition of 'CAUSE". does a cause need a cause to make a cause happen?

now an atheist may say, universe had a beginning, but not needs a cause?. true, science would collapse if this law of cause and effect is denied. even the cops need a cause to find the burglary/murder.


but, the universe cannot be self-caused nothing can create itself, because that would mean that it existed before it came into existence, which is a logical fallacy.
 
Dear Ravi Sir:

My response is in bold letters below.

Cheers.

Peace be with you ALL.


Sri Yamaka,

My views...






- Yes, people do offer poojas and prayers everyday. What's wrong in it if one believes and do pooja? But if one thinks that his pooja can get him what he wants without any sort of efforts, than that's his/her ignorance. There are many person, who don't do everyday pooja. But they believe in God and visit temples whenever they feel like. What for a person is doing pooja, what is he expecting from his pooja and what his understanding of pooja are all that matters.

In my estimation, most of the poor in Central and South America (mostly Catholics), most of the poor in Indonesia (mostly Muslims) and most of the poor in India (mostly Hindus) are devoutly religious people and pray often for the betterment of their wretched lives...why their Gods act like a Stone, not providing any guidance to improve their lives is the KEY contention here.. Some of you would simply say "Oh, it's their Poorva Jenma Karma" and walk off with a satisfying smile!

Is that your position also?

Here "poor" means people who just can't make more than Rs. 150 per person per day...Most of these people don't pray to be Ambanis or Gates or Marans's...their prayers are for a little better life to feed and cloth their dependent families, please remember.

Is this not a Providential Neglect, if the Gods remain silent as just Stones?

2. Why would this world of human survival come to cease, if the (existent) God listens to the devotees?[/QUOTE]


- Beacuse, than no soul would refine itself in a true sense. There would not be any sense of real human survival. There would not be any give and take between humans in any form. There would be no sense of hunger, anger, thirst, lust, materialistic desires, hardships, hard work, failure, success etc. Only with the presence of these senses, the natural order of Human life moves and the soul got to balance them, achieve higher realization and get liberated.

If God listens and grants to every one what they want, than the greedy humans would not be really humans (greedy in general sense like "I", "Mine", "My Self"). They will be transforming themselves into Demons.

The purpose of attaining balance, righteousness and other refined qualities of human/soul can no way be tested, achieved and granted liberation.

Above all, if God could be proved, God could be seen and could initiate one to one conversation, each human soul would get liberated spontaneously.

Are you then suggesting that the Almighty Gods keep people hungry and afflicted with disease and ignorance just to punish them? Or keep them in bondage for ever to the thesis of God? So that the world will NOT cease to exist?

I am very confused about this "Most Merciful God"! Is this not an irony in design?


[/QUOTE]
3. Most people of "bhakti" believe that God exists to listen to their sorrows and sufferings and to do "whatever possible" to alleviate them... do you agree or not?[/QUOTE]


- I would certainly agree.

God can never be bribed. God can never be lured. God can never be black mailed. If people do things blindly with all their ignorance, it doesn't mean that God doesn't exist
.

Are you then saying that people of "bhakti" are bribing the Gods with their prayers?
Then, should you banish all prayers and poojas because it's bribing the Gods?


[/QUOTE]
4. I don't know much about all this Yuga arguments here.. the devotees go to God to get some answer to their day to day problems..which can be material or health or name/fame or whatever. Why can't the (existent) God listen to their heart-felt prayers?[/QUOTE]


- Not a single human is naturally having patience, every one wants things to go as one wants. every one want to enjoy everything as easily as possible. The sufferings and pleasures, failures and success are only the senses of Humans. If we relieve our self from these emotions/senses, neither we have to pray, nor we have to feel distressed. And when we could achieve this, we are God. But how many of us could achieve that? Believers would pray God atleast to give them the strength to bear. And non believers (I can say non believers are those, who are emotionally strong, confident and believe only oneself and can't accept that things can be outside control and in control of some powers) would carry on their day to day life without prayers.

If God listen to their heart-felt prayers and grants what each one wants, I am sure, not a single person can achieve what he/she wants. People will be sick of what they have. Because what we want and what we want to give are all revolving around each one of us only.


Are these devotees not following the dictates of their Holy Books? I believe they follow the dictates and ask the "Merciful Gods" to show some kindness to make their lives a little better. Is it too much to ask their personal Gods - the All Mighty?


[/QUOTE]
Here, there are many well educated practitioners of Science and Technology.. they have the luxury and mental bombast to think in detail about their mental construct - the God; with their verbal bombast they can twist and turn arguments to prove or disprove someone else' argument... that's their pastime.. that's their Civil Right... I am not saying anything about their mental exercise. [/QUOTE]


- Yes, its every one's civil right. Whether one is a educated practitioner of science and technology, have luxury and mental supremacy Or one is uneducated, poor and have no mental caliber to think and debate, its one's choice as what they want to think or believe about God and whether they need to pray him or not. And whether they need to prove and disapprove with each other or not.


[/QUOTE]
(Except I may mutter and murmur "why people of Science and Technology pander to the superstition of God and Destiny?")[/QUOTE]


- No need to pander to. It doesn't matter. Whether we believe in God or not, whether we are people of science and technology or people of ignorance and blind belief, God would continue to exist and would play the rule of the nature.

[/QUOTE]
However, our proverbial man with the long hair cited in post #1, is negligent to not to go to a barber because he spent too much of his time praying God for whatever he expected from HIM.[/QUOTE]


- The purpose of a moral story is to understand the purpose for which it's been told. A proverbial man with long hair needing haircut can be only a poor man, a beggar who couldn’t make money even to feed him. I don't think any one of us, reasonably having money for a descent life, would leave our hairs unattended by wasting time to ask something from God.

We would leave our hairs unattended and would be least bothered of its length and conditions, only if we want to spend years together in Tapasya to Find God, physically or subtly.

Then, why this man didn't get his hair cut in your view? Purely negligent, or he has no money to pay for the barber or what's his state of mind? If as per the post#1, barber is the God, then is God expecting monetary offerings to render the man any "service", as Mr. Nara asked? Please give your theology.

[/QUOTE]
Alas, this man did not get his prayers answered by the (non existent) God!


Cheers.[/QUOTE]



- We can't conclude our self for sure as what the soul deserves, what was the aim of his prayers, what all are his intentions and can not know who was he before and what he would be later

As I said above, most poor devotees want their current wretched life be improved a little bit... that's all... why would you want to "know who was he before and what he would be later" at all? A "Merciful..All Knowing God" is there to listen to His devotees! Otherwise, the Gods become irrelevant in the lives of the devotees.. Is this not a reason that more and more people are walking away from Religious Orthodoxy towards the State of Moksha aka Freedom (as Reformists and Naturalists)?

[/QUOTE]
ps. A non-Believer has no obligation whatsoever to prove or disprove anything; it's the duty of Believers to come up with tangible ways to prove their case. As a non-Believer, I am a very simple person as I was born naturally; I didn't accept the arguments of artificiality of Religions and their Gods... the burden is upon the Believers to show to the world of their knowledge and existence of their Gods. Peace.[/QUOTE]

- Neither believer nor non-believer need to hold obligations to prove or disapprove anything to each other. The true believers and who understands what is God, what is the purpose of God, what is the purpose of human life, would not bother to hold obligations to show to the world of their knowledge. They will just air their views and would not be imposing their rules to non-believers and would not consider them different to themselves[/QUOTE]

I believe the Believers have a duty to explain why devotees with real "bhakti" and prayers to their personal Gods are deserted and neglected to the sorrow of the devotees?

"Kadavul Yaen Kallaanaan?" My answer has been "He has been a Kall from the beginning"
 
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A proof by definition demonstrating consistency with respect to certain preset boundary conditions. Those boundary conditions are personal choices.

Even in mathematics the boundary conditions of 0 and infinity are assumed. You can't "prove" the existence of infinity. Infinity is a necessary evil even in number theory, just so the rest of the real axis can be ordered inside that boundary. Mathematics is based on axioms. A Field is built on ordered pairs, where the ordering is a set of axioms. All those axioms are personal choices. This is why there are infinite types of Fields.

Science is like a football game. There are preset football rules made from personal choices. You play within those rules and score. That doesn't mean one played without rules and limitations.

Sri.Dr.Barani, Greetings.

In mathematics, the value of infinity maybe assumed; but the numerals are not assumed. They are very real. God concept is assumed in total. We can't compare numerals and God concept.

That's why I tend to stick to either black or white. The numerous grey shades only add to the confusion. For the time being, I shall say 'no God'. If I do happen to see God, then I have no problem to accept that I was wrong. I don't think God would get cross with me for that. I am not asking anyone to 'prove' me the existence of God.

Cheers!
 
Sri Yamaka,

The below is your quote, asking me to give you my theology..


"Then, why this man didn't get his hair cut in your view? Purely negligent, or he has no money to pay for the barber or what's his state of mind? If as per the post#1, barber is the God, then is God expecting monetary offerings to render the man any "service", as Mr. Nara asked? Please give your theology."


To give you my theology, based on the story line, I have first extracted the concluding part of the story for better focus..

-----------------------------------------------
The customer turned back 'n entered the barbershop again 'n he said to the barber:
"You know what? Barbers do not exist."
"How can you say that?" asked the surprised barber.
"I am here, 'n I am a barber. 'n I just worked on you!"

"No!" the customer exclaimed. "Barbers don't exist because if they did, there would be no people with dirty long hair 'n untrimmed beards, like that man outside."

"Ah, barbers DO exist! What happens is, people do not come to me.
"Exactly!- affirmed the customer. "That's the point! GOD, too exist!

What happens, is, people don't go to him 'n do not look for him. That's why there is so much pain 'n suffering in the world.


----------------------------------------------------

With the level of my sense and belief, I could well find the above concluding elightment by the customer as, much sensible. As per your counter argument, and as per Ayya's question, let me detail my theology step by step.

1) Asuming a man with long hairs and untrimmed beards, have sufficient money to pay but didn't bother to make them look better/decent to present himself in a acceptable manner in a society..


- In such a case he would not look for a barber/barbershop, because, either he is ignorant of the society’s standard rule of decent appearance or he is just happy with his appeal. He wants himself to look that way and he knows that, the choice of his appearance would not harm/spoil others.


“A person who is happy with what he have, what he believes in and he is no way spoiling/harming and making loses to others with his willful choices, would not go in search of God. He is happy with what he has and what he likes.”



2) Assuming a man with long hairs and untimmed beards, have no money to trim them off and look better, and need to spend whatever money gets for his food, as the priority (he is a beggar). He wants to look better but helpless.

- In such a case he will not decide to spend money and obviously would be focused on making money to feed himself for the day and keep the reserve, if poosible, to eat the other day. Because for him there is no certainity of earning.

But if he determines to trim them off and present himself well and for that he keeps explaining his condition and keep requesting barbers one after the other, day after the day with patience and hopes, he may be pleased by any one of the barbers to trim his hairs off, free of cost (or may ask him to pay him later, when he could, and if possible).


“A person in need, if approaches God, he will certainly get something to be relieved of as what he deserves as per his Karma. He may get an enlightment within his conscious as what the best righteous ways can be adopted to achieve what he wants. He may get a stranger as a passer by to comfort him some way, that he could be relieved of his grief. He could be made to feel at ease and composed. He may be powered to not to go out of way in a wrong manner out of his dire sense of wanting and end up hurting others and accumulating bad karma for himself. He may learn to accept his life and still be happy, making the best of everything he could have."


As per the moral story, moral message, that the customer has attenpted to make the barber realize the existence of God, the barber may become equivalent to God, ready to help a person in need, who comes to him asking. Being inspired by his customer, he may decide to offer a free hair cut and trimming or shaving of the man’s beared, free of cost.

He may do so, without the dirty looking man requesting the barber. For, the purity of the heart/good intentions/good deeds of the man may fetch him the gratefulness of a stranger (customer) as indirect help, to have his hairs trimmed through a unknown barber, without making a request for free services.



The Fee, the God want’s from humans is nothing but “BELIEF ON HIM”, that too only for the soul to get the higher realization and attain liberation.


For the rest of your queries, I didn’t find any valid reason to keep going round and round in a circle. But one thing I would like to make clear to you.

I didn’t say that people shold not pray as that would be considered as bribing God. I said, the way of prayers differs. A person 1) who spends hours together in prayers without spending time constuctively, working hard and 2) who do some strange sacrifices/spending money a lot etc, considering pleasing God to achieve what he wants, are all equal to, lazy and greedy peroson (for a former case) and a person attempting to bribe God, thinking he can win his grace to fulfill whatever he wants within his own quick time frame (for a later case).


Just because he couldn’t succeed bribing God, doesn’t on its own confirms that, God doesn’t exist.


As I said in my earlier post, a person need not to pray God. He can just be a true human, honest, unharmful, unhurtful, doing only good deeds with all his consciousness, not too self centred, warm, gentle, loving and caring all and ever be happy with what he/she has (if he could be so ever in all given situation, as per the maturity and enlightment of his soul), he/she will ever be blessed/protected by god and would be liberated, dosent matter what was his/her education, what was his/her profession, what was his/her economic standards, what was his/her physical appearace and what was his/her acheivements in the physical and spiritual world.

 
Dear Shri.Yamaka,
I am very much worried that reading of your views/posts should not influence my thinking and make me
an Athiest/Agnostic/Believer in Nature.I want to continue as I was from my birth in this universe till I joined this Forum 18 months back.Any Advice from your end?
Ps:- I also do not want to skip your posts as I enjoy reading your virws.
 
Dear Shri.Yamaka,
I am very much worried that reading of your views/posts should not influence my thinking and make me
an Athiest/Agnostic/Believer in Nature.I want to continue as I was from my birth in this universe till I joined this Forum 18 months back.Any Advice from your end?
Ps:- I also do not want to skip your posts as I enjoy reading your virws.

Dear Krish Sir:

I have said many times before that people should follow their Free Will consistent with their own philosophy of life...I urge you to follow your own "inner call".

A Small Story:

1. A few days ago, I was driving home and saw a vehicle standing on the side of the road close to my neighborhood..

I stopped near the car and looked.. there were two older (African American) ladies - may be in their 60s. I asked, "What happened to the car"... they said very reluctantly. "Car has a problem.. and we don't have enough money.. we don't know what to do... we will appreciate any help"

I said "I don't know how much I have.. I will give you what all I have.. and I will call my neighborhood Security to help you".. I gave them some money, maybe about $40 which I normally carry in my wallet... I called the Security.. Hopefully, he helped them to solve their problems!

I told this to my wife.. she asked "Why did you give all the money you had?" I said.."Well, those ladies looked very worried... and they didn't know how to get out of that situation... I felt like giving all I had... that's all... and it will not be more than $40... what a big deal for us?"

She murmured "You are a strange person.." What's the moral of the story here: This reflects a part of my Life's Philosophy....

2. My son turned down a plum job in Silicon Valley soon after his graduation. He has gone as a Volunteer Medical Fellow to a cholera-infested rural village in Haiti.

I asked him why he is throwing away a plum job like this?

He said, "I don't need to go to work now.. I want to help the Rural Poor in the most neglected part of the world... don't worry about me.. I am now a grown up - a 22 year old!"

"My Life's Philosophy is not money... but Service, as President Obama went to work as a Community Organizer for $10,000 a year after Columbia! Do you know why he did it?" he asked me.

I said, "You guys are very strange people!". This reflects part of his Life's Philosophy.

Do we need an Organized Religion and their Gods here?

Cheers.

Regards.

Y
 
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