Hemamalini's bold action to thwart unethical misuse

[valli]

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Dear Kunjuppu

Therukoothu, Karagam, kudhiraattam, oppaari, villuppaatttu and many such folk genre, hence languished and in fact were dying due to lack of patronage.

Atleast a tamil could understand the oppaari and feel with it, where as something in telugu or Sanskrit, is beyond comprehension of many folks like me, who do not understand and who equate it Koran chant of the muslims or latin chant of the Christians. Divine? Maybe. But not life. Not of life. That is how I see it.

My own wish is to make tamil the primary language of carnatic music concerts. Anything that could be sung in telugu or Sanskrit, could be done as well in tamil. We have a huge history of music right from the sangom age.

Barring that, I would rather buy a ticket to a karuppayi concert any day to anything organized at music academy.

Here is an apt song - Paadariyen Padippariyen - YouTube

Kind regards

 

[Raji Ram]

After listening to the song 'PAdaRiyEn padippaRiyEn', one disciple asked his Guru, why there is a ThOdi rAgam's touch

in this song, which is supposed to be in SAramathi. The cool Guru replied, 'The answer is in the first line of the song!' :thumb:

 

[prasad1]

Does Hemamalini acts without the consent and direction? That will be first time.
If BJP and Dharam wanted her to act in certain way she will. As far as her dancing ability goes the famous dance critique Subudu did not appreciate it.
I do not appreciate her act of family wrecker. I did not appreciate her becoming a political leader without a hint of political understanding. She did nothing in the parliament. She should keep to acting IMPO.

 

[sarang]

subbudu,
My own wish is to make tamil the primary language of carnatic music concerts. Anything that could be sung in telugu or Sanskrit, could be done as well in tamil. We have a huge history of music right from the sangom age.

It is a shame that all such is ignored, or given a ‘bit’ chance in today’s concerts, even though I was told that artists like sudha or jayashree, sing a few more tamil songs than the men. i feel atleast 75% of a katcheri should be in tamil.

Barring that, I would rather buy a ticket to a karuppayi concert any day to anything organized at music academy.

Thank you.

Fit suggestion for throwing in the dustbin. Surprising that votaries of free world come out with such inane recommendations. The music sabhas will arrange those concerts which are liked by the concert going public. Some of my relatives plan their trips to India during the music season to listen and enjoy music of their choice selecting from the large number of concerts available. There is no law prohibiting any type of music. Our carnatic singers are also invited to the north american continent to perform traditional telugu, tamil, samskrit songs.

Funny votaries of free society want language-genre reservation for songs as well. And a broadsided insinuation against music academy because it is claimed that it is managed by brahmins. I presume other academies managed by nonbrahmins and other religionists are snow white and free from politics.
"mottai talaikkum muzhangalukkum mudichu"

 

[kunjuppu]

Fit suggestion for throwing in the dustbin. "

sarang,

i agree with you. my suggestions indeed deserve the garbage, if you see it that way. i have no objection.

but pray tell me where i am factually wrong. i am willing to be corrected.

is not the music academy dominatedd or almost 100% brahmins, membership wise and management wise?

though this might be a matter of opinion, do you honestly believe there is no politicking in the conferring of titles?

the incident i stated about papnasam sivan is true and has been documented in the press.

re your quote, re suggesting a fitting receptacle for my preferences,let me put it in another way:carnatic music is tamil originated music and till recently from sangom times was a vehicle for tamil verses. living in tamil nadu, what is wrong in wishing for concerts with 75% tamil songs? which is why, you may not understand, that other tamil groups dislike us.

re folks from usa attending concerts, unfortunately they are the products of the same biases, and it would be surprising if they did not behave this way. sad to say, some of them inculcate this caste superiority to their children, which manifests itself the minute they land in india, and disappears as soon as they board the plane for obama land.

sarang, what i say is facts. you may not like it, but no one will be able to deny the truth in them.

 

[amala]

. Some of my relatives plan their trips to India during the music season to listen and enjoy music of their choice selecting from the large number of concerts available.

Sounds like we have the same relatives!! Loads of mine do exactly the same, go to Chennai especially for the Dec music season . I'm tempted to try it someday.

 

[amala]

Purandara Dasa in 14th century revamped and made teaching Carnatic music more systematic which we follow till today. Being a Kannadiga all his compositions were in Sanskrit and probably Kannada. All the geetams are mostly his compositions. Then somehow Tyagaraja Swami with all his Telugu kritis became so popular and so we learn his. Thats probably why when one learns Carnatic music, the basics its all non Tamil.

I went for a Sri Lankan arangetram a fortnight ago and the singer and pakkavaadyam were from India but every single song they sang was Tamil as requested by the the SLs. It was the first time in my life i had to continously listen to all Tamil Carnatic songs! It felt very surreal but it was nice nevertheless.

 

[kunjuppu]

...I went for a Sri Lankan arangetram a fortnight ago and the singer and pakkavaadyam were from India but every single song they sang was Tamil as requested by the the SLs. It was the first time in my life i had to continously listen to all Tamil Carnatic songs! It felt very surreal but it was nice nevertheless.

the huge sri lankan community has several dance studios as well as many many teachers for all types of pakka vaadhyam.

my own son learned mridangam from one very young teacher.

SLs have a passion for tamil, and i am not surprised that they insisted the whole performance be in tamil. the fact is if you go to chennai, the capital of tamil nadu, most of the items are in telugu/kannada/sanskrit with a thukkada for tamil.

i think it may looked surreal, because we have not seen such before. a few more such concerts, and it becomes familiar. just my guess

http://www.karnatik.com/history.shtml

it is interesting that till 800 years ago, the whole of india had one music, and with the arrival of the mughals, the first islamic kingdom
to appreciate the indian arts and dances (which until then was considered kaffirish and banned) that the secularization of
indian music happened in the north.

in the south classical music remained by and large, divinity oriented, to such an extent, that today we even have the life of jesus
christ set to carnatic tune and bharanatyam. i have seen one performed and boy, that was surreal!!

 

[suraju06]

ramram

Dear Kunjuppu,

Dear Mr. Kunjuppu,

Your posts #136 and #155:

Every society has various forms of music to express itself in a finer form………………………… I would rather buy a ticket to a karuppayi concert any day to anything organized at music academy.

Yes, every society has various forms of music to express itself in finer or coarser form.A farmer working in the field may sing தெம்மாங்கு whereas an urban office-going housewife may enjoy a தோடி or an ஆரபி. Tastes and inclination differ from person to person. A farmers” club can meet once in a week and have a தெம்மாங்கு performance and those among the urban housewives can also attend it for the sheer “difference” and enjoy it. The confusion comes only when you have prejudices in favour of one to the exclusion of the other. Then it becomes a colored glass. If the urban enthusiasts of Carnatik music meet once in a month to enjoy a performance by a vidwan it becomes elitist in the eyes of the prejudiced. If they institute awards these become subject of animated discussion and politics is alleged freely. Throw in caste and language into this and it becomes really a spicy bhelpuri treat. You have done exactly this very effectively.

The lilting themmangu or the boat-man’s song which is sung to a strict தாளக்கட்டு are all folk songs and no one would deny the music in them. I enjoy them when sung by good singers. Similarly I attend carnatic music programmes in sabhas and enjoy good music there too. When I attend a carnatic music kutchery I enjoy the songs including the bhava as I do understand the meaning of the songs sung there. I have put in efforts to understand the meaning of telugu, kannada and sanskrit songs because these are sung by various artists regularly. But bhava/meaning is only one part of the experience. In the higher plane at which the dialogue is taking place(by the singing and listening to it) between the singer and the listener there is something else called pure pleasure of music which is enjoyed by both. In that plane, every swara(for a moment think of it as devoid of any meaning or bhava) and every period of silence, however brief it may be, is enjoyed. Many a time it is enjoyed without words but just tears of joy and the exclamation “yeah, this is it”. How do I compare the two experiences? There is no way I can compare. So the best thing to do is to enjoy them as they come-both தெம்மாங்கு and the ஆரபி -without bothering about which one is more sweet.

You have mixed another ingradient to your cocktail –the language. Music lovers do not bother about the language. Music itself is the language they understand well. In kutcheries in the music sabhas tamil songs are sung along with telugu, kannada and sanskrit songs. If you have complexes and prejudices you feel tamil is neglected. Rabble rousing politicians have played a major role in creating this kind of an impression. The lyrics of movies are in Tamil and they come in all hues-carnatic raga based melodies, beats and raps-and they fill up the gap. When I have the inclination I immensely enjoy these filmi songs too. They come many a time with the flavour of the Tamil folk.

If Music academy is a society promoted and patronised by a certain section of the society let it be. They will have the right to decide matters pertaining to the society. To say that there is too much politics and only a certain caste is dominating is unwarranted. It is like saying the parsee panchayat is dominated by Parsees only. What matters is whether the Academy is doing something for the music or not. I think they are doing something and that is enough.

Yes . If Music academy arranges a concert by Balamuralikrishna in their mini hall and Kollangudi Karuppaayee’s programme in the Main Auditorium, I would prefer to attend the former one(this does not down grade Kollangudi Karuppaayee's musical talents) because I am inclined to do it for my personal reasons which include my taste and my expectations from the artiste. The pleasure of enjoying good music is a purely personal experience and there is no way you can find fault with it.

Cheers.

 

[kunjuppu]

dear suraju,

thank you for your very detailed post. # 159.

as always, so balanced, so erudite and so gentle. i have no arguements against it.

i would like to explain my stand, not versus your post, but against, what i felt was the prevalent tambram attitude towards other folk musics of tamil nadu. and folk arts too.

please read my post again. #136 to subbudu.

my lament was that there were no champions of folks arts when AIR was formed and even today. whereas carnatic music has a heavy patronage, with guaranteed salary for the various skill levels. tambrams could have promoted the other arts in a similar way they used state money to support carnatic music, for we were the management of AIR in the south, and had a say in all its programming.

we tambrams, do not jump up and embrace our folk arts like the punjabis do. any punjabi, right from khushwant to MMS would jump and join a bhangra. i could not see any of my relatives joining in a dappankuthu or karagam in any street festival. it is 'beneath their dignity'.

suraju, i think, through benign neglect, we commit big errors. as you said, you had nothing against karuppayi, but your tastes have been deliberately seasoned towards non karuppayi arts.

till 1950s, we shunned bharathanatyam too. it was for devadasis. bharatanatyam got 'respectability' only when the judges and collector's daughters started performing, and today it has permeated into another brahmin dominated and supported art form.

to me, it appears, that folk arts were not given a decent deal in post independent india, and as the key decision maker of arts grants, particularly in the south, and also in All India Radio and doordarshan, we tambrams, ignored them as something unworthy of our attention.

there is again, nothing wrong in an organization like music academy being brahmin dominated. i was only putting in perspective, that the title sangeetha kalanidhi is as tainted, or untainted, like any other awards like the nobel prize. and the awarding of kalaimaamani, to karuppayi is no shame and just as deserved and just as honourable as to any carnatic music vidwan. one should not compare apples and oranges. they are sweet by themselves of different kinds. and there are rotten cores in both of these.

tomorrow if the IT dot com millionaires started patronizing villuppaattu, i am quite sure, every ambi and thambi will join villuppaattu classes. it is all in the perception of patronage and prestige.

the same goes for tamil songs dominating carnatic concerts. if tomorrow a tambram musician does that, others will follow. that does not seem to happen, though we see a creeping trend towards more tamil songs. a full tamil songed katcheri should be welcomed and should be a normal event. not a rarity happening once in a blue moon. i am only repeating your stand.

i do not ill will the sanskrit or telugu songs. they too have a place. but give tamil its due. not a thukkada at the tail end of a concert. if music lovers indeed do not differentiate languages, then playing more tamil songs in a tamil's nadu would be natural. n'est pas? there should be no deliberate objection or practise against this. right?

i hope i have clarified my stand. thank you.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear friends,

Tamil songs in Carnatic concerts were rare only before two decades. Now, every concert has at least one of the

three main songs in Tamil. There is Tamil Isai sangam, in Chennai, which organizes concerts exclusively for Tamil

keerthanais. The movie Sindhubairavi was released in 1985!! That is an old story...

All India Radio, Chennai has requested the graded carnatic artists to sing the main song of their concert in Tamil. It

is in practice for many years now. Composers like PApanAsam Sivan, Muthu ThAndavar, ArunAchala Kavi,

Ooththukkadu VEnkata kavi, Ambujam Krishna, PeriyasAmi Thooran, Thanjavur Shankara Iyer, Koteeswara Iyer and

many more have composed hundreds of kruthis and keerthanais in main rAgams which are widely presented in the

concerts now a days. Jaya TV organises Margazhi maha uthsavam in which many programs are based only on Tamil

songs.

So, to put it in a nutshell, Tamil language has its due respect in Carnatic music field. :thumb:

Note: Being a carnatic music promoter, I have given my views. Now back to the 'dream girl'!

Regards,
Raji Ram

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

Does Hemamalini acts without the consent and direction? That will be first time.
If BJP and Dharam wanted her to act in certain way she will. As far as her dancing ability goes the famous dance critique Subudu did not appreciate it.
I do not appreciate her act of family wrecker. I did not appreciate her becoming a political leader without a hint of political understanding. She did nothing in the parliament. She should keep to acting IMPO.

How many actors/actresses know politics or economics ? Shatrugan Sinha,
Raj babbar, Karthik, Vijay - any of them. Today the political parties prefer
the cine popularity to get votes

 

[Nara]

....So, to put it in a nutshell, Tamil language has its due respect in Carnatic music field.

Mrs. RR, Tamil Isai Sangam was started as a reaction to the monopoly of the Telugu/Sanskrit centric Academy. Over the years with increasing awareness of the Tamil origins of Carnatic music among the general masses, and the changed political climate, the establishment Carnatic music is not averse to Tamil to the extent they were earlier. This may be claimed as "due respect" to Tamil.

But, the starting point of this vain of the thread, a diversion of course, was not whether the Carnatic music establishment pays due respect for Tamil songs or not, but it is about alternatives to Carnatic music, a form of music that is more popular among the salt of the earth, the common folks, whether such genre is any less sublime, any less magnificent, any less transcendent.

Viewing this genre as the equivalent of an untouchable, by some -- I am not saying you harbor this view I certainly don't hold you responsible for one of your siblings expressing such a view -- is unfortunate and is one of the causes of separation and alienation of the so called "Brahmins" from the rest of the society.

Cheers!

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

There are two points here.

One is Tamil isai and the other is lyrics.

We have a good number of tamil songs like thevaram, thiruvasagam, arutpa,
thiruppugazh and others. These are more in the nature of praising the glory
of God.

The other one is music . Many of the lyrics of Papanasam Sivan was brought to
the fore by M M Iyer. Madurai Somu rendered many performances in Tamil.
The list goes on, like Gopalakrishna barathiar, subramania barathiar and others.

In all the temples, thevaram is sung just prior to deepa aaraaadhani in punn.
It is quite thrilling to hear it. I have heard many musicians singing a thevaaram
both in punn and carnatic raaagas.

Whither Hema ?!

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Prof. Nara Sir,

I am a sort of forced to continue about music, in this thread. It is an old story, if we talk about Tamil kruthis and

keerthanais not being recognized. I have clearly mentioned about the great composers of Carnatic songs in Tamil.

I missed to added the great composer Gopalakrishna BharathiyAr, a contemporary of Saint ThyagarAjA.

Please, never ever think that caranatic music is only for brahmins. There are so many, other than brahmins, in this

field, for many decades. Brahmins were more in number. That is all. There are many leading artists in Carnatic

music, from other religions also. So, please do not bring caste / religion into this divine art form of music.

VEdhanAyagam pillai composed many songs, which do not mention about any God. They are known as 'sarva madha

keerthanais'. Many of his songs are popular.

Regards,
Raji Ram

 

[கால பைரவன்]

RR is kindly requested not to take away another "good" reason for brahmin bashing.

 

[sarang]

- is unfortunate and is one of the causes of separation and alienation of the so called "Brahmins" from the rest of the society.
Cheers!

Fond hope! Brahmins are not and do not feel alienated and are doing fine. Some brahmins are doing a wonderful job of nurturing brahminical traditions and a sizable number of practicing brahmins are contributing time and money to help the few who have dedicated themselves to learning vedas, sastras, rituals, temple duties etc. There is a significant number of satvik people from other communities - chettiars, mudaliars, kallars, gowdas, reddys to name a few - who respect and support brahmins and brahminical traditions. Many youngsters are keen to add iyer/ iyengar surnames now (north indians have not dropped sharma, pandey, trivedi, dwivedi . . .), a practice we discontinued in the last 60 years.

To conclude, we brahmins are positive and do not suffer any discrimination from other non brahmin communities; only the politicians are muddying the water and reaping benefits. Despite their power, position and wealth sonia gandhi, rahul gandhi, mayawati have not done anything for the deprived in their constituencies and this hypocritical behaviour is understood by many slowly.

When the kallar panchayat president in my village tells me that 'iyermal emathamattanga' (iyers will not cheat), I am proud that he has such a confidence in me and other brahmins he had dealings with.

However much exbrahmins bash brahmins, ground level realities are different. Since educated and in service politicians are only fattening their purses and families, let us hope restrictive policies of the government - reservation, minority appeasement, bogey of hindutava and encouraging corrupt practices are are all abandoned and punished through our democratic process.

 

[suraju06]

Dear Kunjuppu,

Your post # 160:

my lament was that there were no champions of folks arts when AIR was formed and even today. whereas carnatic music has a heavy patronage, with guaranteed salary for the various skill levels. tambrams could have promoted the other arts in a similar way they used state money to support carnatic music, for we were the management of AIR in the south, and had a say in all its programming.

Unlike the folk songs which in any case were supported by the cenema Industry there were no supporters for the carnatic music in those days. Hence AIR stepped in to support an art form which was part of our heritage. I agree that AIR could have included some folk arts also in their budget.

we tambrams, do not jump up and embrace our folk arts like the punjabis do. any punjabi, right from khushwant to MMS would jump and join a bhangra. i could not see any of my relatives joining in a dappankuthu or karagam in any street festival. it is 'beneath their dignity'.

Kunjuppu, you know it well that brahmins generally are not very demonstrative in expressing their happiness or sorrow. It is a cultural trait of the community handed down from generation to generation. You can not expect that it will change quickly. So if it is a fast beat dappanguththu song, the maximum a brahmin would do would be to tap his foot. Of course times are changing due to the impact of western culture. Any way, Khao, peeyo, maja karo is not in the grain of TBs.

I do not believe that there was any directed effort to put down folk arts in AIR or Doordarshan.

there is again, nothing wrong in an organization like music academy being brahmin dominated. i was only putting in perspective, that the title sangeetha kalanidhi is as tainted, or untainted, like any other awards like the nobel prize. and the awarding of kalaimaamani, to karuppayi is no shame and just as deserved and just as honourable as to any carnatic music vidwan. one should not compare apples and oranges. they are sweet by themselves of different kinds. and there are rotten cores in both of these.

You said it. I agree with the general thrust of your statements.

I was listening yesterday night to a malayalam film song. The song starts with சங்கீதமே அமர சல்லாபமே and goes on to say வேதனையை போலும் வேதாந்தமாக்குன்ன சங்கீதமே அமர சல்லாபமே. By bringing in language and caste factors into the discussion on music we are only increasing the வேதனை and I am not sanguine about our ability to convert this வேதனை eventually into வேதாந்தம்!

 

[Raji Ram]

RR is kindly requested not to take away another "good" reason for brahmin bashing.

The divine art of carnatic music is not only to please the ears, but also to lead us towards God, Sir.

The persons who do not believe in God's existence can still enjoy it in instrumental music, which has no words!

We can never attach a caste to music, be it carnatic or any other form. This is MHO! (H = humble and honest)

Here is the wonderful instrument mandolin, tamed by the young maestro Sri. U. Srinivas.
His brother accompanies him. We can have a look at the percussion artists too! :grouphug:

Mandolin Shrinivas in Arathanai - YouTube

Regards........

 

[kunjuppu]

.. By bringing in language and caste factors into the discussion on music we are only increasing the வேதனை and I am not sanguine about our ability to convert this வேதனை eventually into வேதாந்தம்!

dear suraju,

thank you again.

unfortunately, it is the bane of india and our heritage, that caste existed for milleniums, and does not appear to go away. many a times in the past, due to such deep seep of caste in our psyche, that we did not even realize the crimes or the cruelites perpetuated, in the name of caste.

it just happened, and we never questioned it. i myself, though aware of such things only vaguely in india, came to be more sensitive, after moving out, being on the receiving end of things, and above all with age and experience.

when i say things about structural inequalities sustained by the caste hierarchy, hopefully, what i say, is the truth, ie backed up by facts. i can understand folks like you, reluctant to accept the blame on our community, but for me,an introspection of this type, is more a baptism of fire, needed by us, to absolve us from the crimes of our forefathers.

as a community, germany, so ashamed of the nazis, post war, went through such a process. the usa went through it, when evaluating the evils of slavery. recently britain went through it, when reviewing the dark practises of slavery and colonialism. we, unfortunately appear to be still in a denial mode. but eventually maybe the next generation is wiser than us, and more eager to heal the wounds. who knows?

take care sir. God Bless.

 

[sarang]

You are not representing all tambrams. So, always, paraphrase your observations to not 'universal we, our' etc' Instead learn to say, some of us, some brahmins with feeling of guilt etc.. Out next generation is wiser, know fully well how history has been twisted to blame the innocent. At least the youth I know who have excellent education, are well placed in profession here or abroad, are very keen to preserve and practice what their fathers and forefathers did.

dear suraju,

thank you again.

unfortunately, it is the bane of india and our heritage, that caste existed for milleniums, and does not appear to go away. many a times in the past, due to such deep seep of caste in our psyche, that we did not even realize the crimes or the cruelites perpetuated, in the name of caste.

it just happened, and we never questioned it. i myself, though aware of such things only vaguely in india, came to be more sensitive, after moving out, being on the receiving end of things, and above all with age and experience.

when i say things about structural inequalities sustained by the caste hierarchy, hopefully, what i say, is the truth, ie backed up by facts. i can understand folks like you, reluctant to accept the blame on our community, but for me,an introspection of this type, is more a baptism of fire, needed by us, to absolve us from the crimes of our forefathers.

as a community, germany, so ashamed of the nazis, post war, went through such a process. the usa went through it, when evaluating the evils of slavery. recently britain went through it, when reviewing the dark practises of slavery and colonialism. we, unfortunately appear to be still in a denial mode. but eventually maybe the next generation is wiser than us, and more eager to heal the wounds. who knows?

take care sir. God Bless.

 

[suraju06]

Dear Kunjuppu,

Your post # 170:

unfortunately, it is the bane of india and our heritage, that caste existed for milleniums, and does not appear to go away. many a times in the past, due to such deep seep of caste in our psyche, that we did not even realize the crimes or the cruelites perpetuated, in the name of caste.

I have been hearing this 'statement of the obvious' repeatedly in this forum.

when i say things about structural inequalities sustained by the caste hierarchy, hopefully, what i say, is the truth, ie backed up by facts. i can understand folks like you, reluctant to accept the blame on our community, but for me,an introspection of this type, is more a baptism of fire, needed by us, to absolve us from the crimes of our forefathers.

You and a few others in this forum are talking about a baptism of fire, introspection and acceptance of blame. I think enough is enough. Better stop the "mia culpa" chorus, the guilt, the shame, the ignorance and the chest beating which all result in a battered self-esteem, a combative sulking self, self-doubt and lack of a goal in life. As I have said in this forum many times, yes, we might have been cruel a few centuries back but then we were not alone. We were part of a cruel majority to a minority. So let us put all this behind and look to the future. I think most of the TBs are in agreement with me. There is no need to keep harping on the centuries that have gone by. If any, such harping, helps only those who are depraved, who are fit to consult a psychiatrist at the earliest.

as a community, germany, so ashamed of the nazis, post war, went through such a process. the usa went through it, when evaluating the evils of slavery. recently britain went through it, when reviewing the dark practises of slavery and colonialism. we, unfortunately appear to be still in a denial mode.

No Kunjuppu. We are not in the denial mode. As a community we have done all the reevaluation, all the introspection and all the shift in outlook long back because our "guilt", mentiond by you, is much older than what all you have listed above which are of very recent times. So we(TBs) have done that already and have become wiser not to be taken for a ride by the interested middle castes. The only unfinished item in the agenda is to get the dalits freed from the clutches of the middle castes. Unfortunately it appears to be a tough task. When I said this earlier on one occasion, that while Americans are able to put their past/guilt behind and move forward, we are not able to do that, a nitpicking member in this forum said my ignorance of American history is profound! I am fed up every time I encounter a prisoner of the past wailing loudly about our guilt quite often in this forum. My humble suggestion to you is to please leave all that baggage behind or better jettison into the sea and live life happily competing with every one on equal footing taking according to your need and giving according to your ability to the society in which you live. That is my view/word on this. Thank you. I enjoyed this conversation with you.

Cheers.

 

[amala]

the huge sri lankan community has several dance studios as well as many many teachers for all types of pakka vaadhyam.

my own son learned mridangam from one very young teacher.

SLs have a passion for tamil, and i am not surprised that they insisted the whole performance be in tamil. the fact is if you go to chennai, the capital of tamil nadu, most of the items are in telugu/kannada/sanskrit with a thukkada for tamil.

i think it may looked surreal, because we have not seen such before. a few more such concerts, and it becomes familiar. just my guess

Royal Carpet: History of Carnatic Music

it is interesting that till 800 years ago, the whole of india had one music, and with the arrival of the mughals, the first islamic kingdom
to appreciate the indian arts and dances (which until then was considered kaffirish and banned) that the secularization of
indian music happened in the north.

in the south classical music remained by and large, divinity oriented, to such an extent, that today we even have the life of jesus
christ set to carnatic tune and bharanatyam. i have seen one performed and boy, that was surreal!!

I went to another one yesterday and it was a lovely mix of 3 Tamil songs, 3 Telugu and 2 Kannada. The SL here are very proud to get their kids to learn Carnatic music from a young age just like Tbs and Telugus (of whatever caste). I'm not sure why for Indian Tamils who are not Brahmins, Carnatic music is not viewed the same way. When i tell SL people this, they are amazed!

 

[prasad1]

dear suraju,

thank you again.

unfortunately, it is the bane of india and our heritage, that caste existed for milleniums, and does not appear to go away. many a times in the past, due to such deep seep of caste in our psyche, that we did not even realize the crimes or the cruelites perpetuated, in the name of caste.

it just happened, and we never questioned it. i myself, though aware of such things only vaguely in india, came to be more sensitive, after moving out, being on the receiving end of things, and above all with age and experience.

when i say things about structural inequalities sustained by the caste hierarchy, hopefully, what i say, is the truth, ie backed up by facts. i can understand folks like you, reluctant to accept the blame on our community, but for me,an introspection of this type, is more a baptism of fire, needed by us, to absolve us from the crimes of our forefathers.

as a community, germany, so ashamed of the nazis, post war, went through such a process. the usa went through it, when evaluating the evils of slavery. recently britain went through it, when reviewing the dark practises of slavery and colonialism. we, unfortunately appear to be still in a denial mode. but eventually maybe the next generation is wiser than us, and more eager to heal the wounds. who knows?

take care sir. God Bless.

Are you serious K,
Caste is a stick used to bash Brahmins, who are a minority is an excuse to get people riled up. Otherwise Caste is used by every caste for their own economic advancement. This mythical beast is a vote machine. Look at the use of caste for quota. Is their a brahmin quota? The whites in USA do not have to be ashamed of the crimes committed by their forefathers. The declaration of emanicipation was enough, and subsequently they have changed some provisions, and social changes. No quota for any race here. No bashing of whites just because they were born that way. So before you feel guilty for something that YOU did not do, check that you personally did not do cruel things to others? If YOU did it you need to apologies, take responsibility for your action, not for your birth. You are just giving in to the perception that you are guilty, and believe me people will jump on you. There are enough Brahmin bashers here.

 

[Nara]

.... The whites in USA do not have to be ashamed of the crimes committed by their forefathers. The declaration of emanicipation was enough, and subsequently they have changed some provisions, and social changes. No quota for any race here....

No, just a declaration was certainly not enough. The civil war was followed by Jim Crow and Plessy v Ferguson that institutionalized racial segregation for almost 100 years. It took major legislative effort to put a legal end to all that, with which the Democratic party lost the South upon which it had iron grip.

Legal end does not mean racism simply disappeared, duh. The U.S. is still struggling with race issues. These issues keep cropping up at regular intervals. The most prominent of these was the Skip Gates affair in 2009. The most recent one is the revelation that Texas Governor Rick Perry was leasing a hunting ranch called "N-word Head Ranch".

The race issue in the U.S. is a complex one. There are lot of similarities with the caste oppression in India, but there are some very important differences as well. While it is useful to try to learn from these similarities and differences to better understand the issues, it is absurd to draw parallels for the sole purpose of scoring debating points.

BTW, the US has strict affirmative action laws that cover the private sector as well, not just government entities, and yet African-Americans routinely face systemic handicaps whites don't face.

No bashing of whites just because they were born that way.

First of all, Whites are the majority wielding political, social, and economic power. Criticism of Whites, what you call "White-bashing" will never get the coverage it deserves for anyone to know.

Leaving that aside, it is also a fact that Whites themselves in droves joined hands with the blacks during the civil rights movement to oppose Jim Crow. In the years following this struggle, even the Southern Whites have rejected the White supremacist ideology decisively. No respectable group will have anything to do with such ideology. The ones that do are shunned by majority of Whites themselves.

The previous Mississippi Senator Trent Lott had to resign from the position of Senate Majority Leader for saying the country would have been better off if Strom Thurmond had won the presidential election at the height of the Civil Rights movement.

On the other hand, go take a look at the web site of Kanchi Kamakoti Matam, the premiere Brahmin institution and take a look at what is said there about Brahmins and Dharmashashthras. And I am intimately familiar with the Brahminical supremacist practices in SV Mathams that go on even today. The Brahminists throng these institutions, whereas, the Whites shun the institutions that openly advocate or practice White supremacist views. It is a fact that a clear accounting of the Brahmnical supremacist ideology is yet to occur in Tamilnadu, and that is just the reality.

So, to compare Whites in the U.S. and the Brahmins of Tamil Nadu, i.e. saying there is no White Bashing but there is Brahmin Bashing only reveals the level of ignorance about these issues.

There are enough Brahmin bashers here.

You guys keep repeating this canard as though that will somehow transform the lives of ordinary folks, it won't, it will only make it harder for them. You guys have made it, you won't be affected by the so called ground reality. By calling those who express progressive ideas as brahmin bashers you guys are harming the ordinary folks who have to live in the Tamil country.

Cheers!